Cliff Racer
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SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Look the way I see cliff racer could be made dodgable if and only if it worked like all other spamables in the game as in instacast actually mean instacast it can't take a sec to reach its target if that change was made it would be better for pve and pvp but we know zos they'll nerf it the only way they know by breaking it so as warden main I would prefer the instacast treatment like the other attacks or leave it alone because the zos treatment will make the weakest class in the game even more unappealing
If they were to do that they'll have to change several other things, cause the only attractive thing for wardens is the delayed dmge to setup bursts. Without it they got nothing.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.1 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭KingYogi415 wrote: »KingYogi415 wrote: »The birds/shalks define the warden.
Just like curse and frags define the magsorc.
People will adapt!
Curse isn't instant damage, frags have cast times, or wait for proc and can be dodged.
Cliff racer is basically cold hard damage if there's more than one opponent unless you just stand there and block(lol)It baffles me that people are still complaining about this skill..... I can't help someone get better at PvP if they load up the Forums to ask for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.
Although this should be common sense for most players, Cliff Racer will be harmless if you do one of two things:
1. Play a 1H/S build (Mag DKs and Tremorscale builds are especially great for this) and block. Cliff Racer will deal practically zero damage to you and you can basically ignore it.
2. Apply pressure to the Mag Warden instead of freaking out and running away. The only reason you died is because you freaked out and let someone spam 1 skill until you died
They have to keep up many buffs, including their Healing/Shielding abilities to not get slaughtered. If they are casting those, they are unable to cast any damaging skills, including Cliff Racer.
The only way those Wardens can get pressure off themselves and really hurt you is to cast Deep Fissure. The goal will be to deal some burst damage but also to CC you. Watch for the animation (big blue/green circle around their feet) and remember it'll go off in about 2sec in a radius *in front* of them. It is very easily dodged or sidestepped. You can also CC the Warden and casually walk around them. In this way, a Warden will burn resources and completely waste the skill cast, causing them to need to go even more defensive. Any Cliff Racers cast at this point will not be spammed and can be easily outhealed by your HoTs.
*If a Warden spams Cliff Racer do not run away and spam roll dodge. Only the players asking for nerfs are doing this*
Instead, punish the Warden by immediately attacking them. They will have to stop casting Cliff Racers asap and shield/heal, all while you heal overtime from HoTs if played smartly. Dying in this situation means you would have died no matter what class they were playing. If you died running away for the extra Damage dealt by Cliff Racer spam, you would have died even quicker by a Stam NB proc build jumping on you instead.
All Cliff Racer adds is another element for you to worry about when dodge rolling, and considering a Warden has 2 good damaging skills, and 3 non-ult damaging skills in total to realistically slot..... if you cannot handle this then I can understand why you would cry for nerfs still.
Amazingly detailed, and true!
Every "OP" spec has a way to handle them, and Depending on your main you will tackle it differently.
Cheers!
Except when guys in the back spamming you while 1+ more teamates attack you lol
Any skill can kill you in that scenario
Yeah true but you at least have the chance to dodge their abilities and make something of it. The undodgeable factor of dive is in indirect nerf to medium armor builds. In a situation where you would of lived based on your skill a patch ago a warden can come in and spam an undodgeable ability that by the time the first one hits you the second one is not far behind. I don't care if they increase the damage it just has to be dodgeable to promote skill based pvp to a certain degree.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Screaming+Cliff+Racer
Why is this skill incredible strong?
When playing on my dragonknight I was taking 5k cliff racers to the face in full impen, with my shields and armor up.
5k per cliff racer, that was 5-6 cliff racers in 5seconds, that was 20-30k damage in 5 seconds, I could not reflect, I could not dodge, I could not out-range it... What is the purpose of making a normal skill not reflectable or dodgable
I understand the purpose of skills like destruction, its a channel. But this one is not channel, its just an instant high damage skill.
I'm not crying nerf, but I want to know the reasoning behind this skill being so incredible strong.
Its really strong when people don't know to block it and try to reflect/dodge resulting in them taking full damage. As for why it isn't reflectable, from a logic perspective, dk wings don't reflect projectiles if the source isn't a target they can attack. (same reasons winds don't reflect arrows from the nightblades shade, skoria, meteor, and other "projectiles" that don't have the opposing player as the source).
What will blocking achieve apart from costing you a lot of stamina?
Dude, you keep posting this over and over in different terms, and it's still dumb. Are you actually saying block isn't counterplay? Cuz it is.
What does it get you besides lost stamina? It gets him lost magicka and keeps you from dying. That's sorta the point. You BLOCK the bird, then you sorta COUNTER-ATTACK the guy with the bird. We call this, "Player vs Player".
Don't be obtuse.
Good post.
Is it?
Even on a s&b build it costs you a lot more blocking than it does them attacking.
Costs 2k stamina on a non s&b build to block per 0.25s.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Screaming+Cliff+Racer
Why is this skill incredible strong?
When playing on my dragonknight I was taking 5k cliff racers to the face in full impen, with my shields and armor up.
5k per cliff racer, that was 5-6 cliff racers in 5seconds, that was 20-30k damage in 5 seconds, I could not reflect, I could not dodge, I could not out-range it... What is the purpose of making a normal skill not reflectable or dodgable
I understand the purpose of skills like destruction, its a channel. But this one is not channel, its just an instant high damage skill.
I'm not crying nerf, but I want to know the reasoning behind this skill being so incredible strong.
Its really strong when people don't know to block it and try to reflect/dodge resulting in them taking full damage. As for why it isn't reflectable, from a logic perspective, dk wings don't reflect projectiles if the source isn't a target they can attack. (same reasons winds don't reflect arrows from the nightblades shade, skoria, meteor, and other "projectiles" that don't have the opposing player as the source).
What will blocking achieve apart from costing you a lot of stamina?
Dude, you keep posting this over and over in different terms, and it's still dumb. Are you actually saying block isn't counterplay? Cuz it is.
What does it get you besides lost stamina? It gets him lost magicka and keeps you from dying. That's sorta the point. You BLOCK the bird, then you sorta COUNTER-ATTACK the guy with the bird. We call this, "Player vs Player".
Don't be obtuse.
Good post.
Is it?
Even on a s&b build it costs you a lot more blocking than it does them attacking.
Costs 2k stamina on a non s&b build to block per 0.25s.
Yeah but depending on the circumstance if it s just one warden like others have said. Just apply pressure to them. Melee>>Ranged especially since stam warden has no class CC.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Although this should be common sense for most players, Cliff Racer will be harmless if you do one of two things:
1. Play a 1H/S build (Mag DKs and Tremorscale builds are especially great for this) and block. Cliff Racer will deal practically zero damage to you and you can basically ignore it.
2. Apply pressure to the Mag Warden instead of freaking out and running away. The only reason you died is because you freaked out and let someone spam 1 skill until you died They have to keep up many buffs, including their Healing/Shielding abilities to not get slaughtered. If they are casting those, they are unable to cast any damaging skills, including Cliff Racer.
I don't always agree with @Vaoh ... but here are certainly some excellent points to re-read if you missed them.
Bottom line --
The OP plays a DK but doesn't block.
What would you expect forum-goers to say about that kind of playstyle??3 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Screaming+Cliff+Racer
Why is this skill incredible strong?
When playing on my dragonknight I was taking 5k cliff racers to the face in full impen, with my shields and armor up.
5k per cliff racer, that was 5-6 cliff racers in 5seconds, that was 20-30k damage in 5 seconds, I could not reflect, I could not dodge, I could not out-range it... What is the purpose of making a normal skill not reflectable or dodgable
I understand the purpose of skills like destruction, its a channel. But this one is not channel, its just an instant high damage skill.
I'm not crying nerf, but I want to know the reasoning behind this skill being so incredible strong.
Its really strong when people don't know to block it and try to reflect/dodge resulting in them taking full damage. As for why it isn't reflectable, from a logic perspective, dk wings don't reflect projectiles if the source isn't a target they can attack. (same reasons winds don't reflect arrows from the nightblades shade, skoria, meteor, and other "projectiles" that don't have the opposing player as the source).
What will blocking achieve apart from costing you a lot of stamina?
Dude, you keep posting this over and over in different terms, and it's still dumb. Are you actually saying block isn't counterplay? Cuz it is.
What does it get you besides lost stamina? It gets him lost magicka and keeps you from dying. That's sorta the point. You BLOCK the bird, then you sorta COUNTER-ATTACK the guy with the bird. We call this, "Player vs Player".
Don't be obtuse.
You have 0 stam recovery when you block. If youre attempting to escape and you block you lose mobility and the timer for you SR resets even if it was miliseconds before you were suppose to get your last return of stamina. Plus you're losing stamina blocking their attacks.
I don't know why you guys think its ok for dive to completely invalidate medium armor sustain builds main form of defense. I can't dodge it so I have to block only that destroys my sustain and mobility (both of which are vital to my survivabiltity) which is tied to my ability to dodge which has just become completely useless because that warden is spamming dive. Its an endless circle of *** you that you guys for some reason seem to be in support of.. do you even pvp?
Would it be ok if dive went through magicka sheilds and block? Because thats damn well what it feels like for me. It'd be like if it went through those forms of defense but not dodge and me the person who mains medium armor builds coming on here and telling you to just dodge it.. only you can dodge like once before you're ***.. haha.Edited by Smmokkee on July 10, 2017 6:12PM3 -
Glamdring✭✭✭✭✭1v1 wardens are a piece of cake but this newbieskill is op if u get outnumbered and try to get away, but i guess thats how ZoS likes it, catering to casuals as usual.2
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PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Dustfinger81 wrote: »unless you just stand there and block(lol)
Why wouldn't you? If they are so cavalier about depleting their primary resource, let them break themselves against your wall. If it is using their secondary resource, then there won't be much to block anyway.
Lmao it'll cost you a lot more resources standing there blocking than it will cost them spamming cliff racer, it's cheaper than most other spam skills.
This is the correct response.
Telling people to block is just stupid, specially if cliffracer has a teammate
guess everyone can start running stealth potions LLOOLL
If cliffracer has a teammate, then it's 2v1 and you'll be dead twice as fast...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Dustfinger81 wrote: »unless you just stand there and block(lol)
Why wouldn't you? If they are so cavalier about depleting their primary resource, let them break themselves against your wall. If it is using their secondary resource, then there won't be much to block anyway.
Lmao it'll cost you a lot more resources standing there blocking than it will cost them spamming cliff racer, it's cheaper than most other spam skills.
This is the correct response.
Telling people to block is just stupid, specially if cliffracer has a teammate
guess everyone can start running stealth potions LLOOLL
If cliffracer has a teammate, then it's 2v1 and you'll be dead twice as fast...
Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...5 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Dustfinger81 wrote: »unless you just stand there and block(lol)
Why wouldn't you? If they are so cavalier about depleting their primary resource, let them break themselves against your wall. If it is using their secondary resource, then there won't be much to block anyway.
Lmao it'll cost you a lot more resources standing there blocking than it will cost them spamming cliff racer, it's cheaper than most other spam skills.
This is the correct response.
Telling people to block is just stupid, specially if cliffracer has a teammate
guess everyone can start running stealth potions LLOOLL
If cliffracer has a teammate, then it's 2v1 and you'll be dead twice as fast...
Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
If you get spamed by gap closers and jesus beams, what do you do?When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭to end all this endless discussions on skills which are to strong, ( which wrecked my StamNB) and procsets, passives and all other things which there are always so many opposite to it, I want to propose that ZOS removes ALL SKILLS, ALL SETS, All CP, ALL ATTRIBUTES, ALL RACIALS, they should remove all and everything, which someone could probably use to build his personal Character. All sets should be like: 2pcs grants you 2 lollies, 3 pcs grants you 3 donuts, 4 pcs grants you a lemonade and 5 pcs takes you to the pool.
we should battle no longer against each other in cyrodil or against mobs and monsters anywhere else, we should instead back cakes and make useless stuff, so that nobody feels that he/she cannot handle his character and feels abused by others who put some more time in L2P.
All get standard the broom and bucket set and we all have lots of fun.
Actually, every time i see the arguement about how pvp is about player skill etc, i point out that that must be why there are so many pvp normal non-set gear campaigns running, cuz what pvpers mostly want are competitive fights where it is skill not gear that makes the diff.
Right? They're just minding their own business and the cheese forces itself onto them, what can they do?
People who think they should always win blow my mind. And that somehow it's fun - and challenging - and skillful, only if they don't lose.
Not really much point in reasoning with that mindset.
First Rule of Nerf-o-Dynamics
The way i used to get kills was good. The way i get killed now is bad.
And i have seen the "cheese forced on me" argument often. Usually in the form of "others do it so i have to"
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."2 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Screaming+Cliff+Racer
Why is this skill incredible strong?
When playing on my dragonknight I was taking 5k cliff racers to the face in full impen, with my shields and armor up.
5k per cliff racer, that was 5-6 cliff racers in 5seconds, that was 20-30k damage in 5 seconds, I could not reflect, I could not dodge, I could not out-range it... What is the purpose of making a normal skill not reflectable or dodgable
I understand the purpose of skills like destruction, its a channel. But this one is not channel, its just an instant high damage skill.
I'm not crying nerf, but I want to know the reasoning behind this skill being so incredible strong.
Newsflash
Block has been invented.
Also, it is not an instant skill.
BTW if Warden killed you with just a cliff racer, you need to L2P.
I've been here longer than most, not much you can do in a battleground where a Warden hit you with 5-8k cliff racers and murders your entire team in 10-15seconds lol
Blocking cost a lot, and you can't turn and face the Warden if they have a tank and a healer sitting on them while they do all the unbdodgable, unreflectable damage in the world.Edited by Casterial on July 10, 2017 7:00PMDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling2 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »
Although this should be common sense for most players, Cliff Racer will be harmless if you do one of two things:
1. Play a 1H/S build (Mag DKs and Tremorscale builds are especially great for this) and block. Cliff Racer will deal practically zero damage to you and you can basically ignore it.
2. Apply pressure to the Mag Warden instead of freaking out and running away. The only reason you died is because you freaked out and let someone spam 1 skill until you died They have to keep up many buffs, including their Healing/Shielding abilities to not get slaughtered. If they are casting those, they are unable to cast any damaging skills, including Cliff Racer.
I don't always agree with @Vaoh ... but here are certainly some excellent points to re-read if you missed them.
Bottom line --
The OP plays a DK but doesn't block.
What would you expect forum-goers to say about that kind of playstyle??
Why would I run s&B and reduce my damage by 15-25%, why should I have to run sword and board, I thought ESO meta was "play how you want" But, nope all DK must be heavy armor and block and hit like a wet noodle. I like my whips hitting 5-15k on a dummy haha.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling1 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Dustfinger81 wrote: »unless you just stand there and block(lol)
Why wouldn't you? If they are so cavalier about depleting their primary resource, let them break themselves against your wall. If it is using their secondary resource, then there won't be much to block anyway.
Lmao it'll cost you a lot more resources standing there blocking than it will cost them spamming cliff racer, it's cheaper than most other spam skills.
This is the correct response.
Telling people to block is just stupid, specially if cliffracer has a teammate
guess everyone can start running stealth potions LLOOLL
If cliffracer has a teammate, then it's 2v1 and you'll be dead twice as fast...
Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
thank you<3Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
1vX isn't a logical basis for balance, I mean you were complaining pretty hard on your stream the other day because you could do nothing when 2 nightblades focused you, and then you showed up exactly why they need some counter to the ridiculous dodge spam when you complained about a nightblade that you were 1v1 with who just triple dodged, didn't even bother to heal and just cloaked.
The only way to logically look at balance is either 1v1 (which will always have a strong element of rock, paper, scissors), or organised groups, e.g - if you are playing as a 4 man pre-made in a bg and you are being focused, it should be looked at in the way how do you cope with a healer, people peeling, etc, not 1 guy alone being focused by X people, that is no sensible basis for balance.
5 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Screaming+Cliff+Racer
Why is this skill incredible strong?
When playing on my dragonknight I was taking 5k cliff racers to the face in full impen, with my shields and armor up.
5k per cliff racer, that was 5-6 cliff racers in 5seconds, that was 20-30k damage in 5 seconds, I could not reflect, I could not dodge, I could not out-range it... What is the purpose of making a normal skill not reflectable or dodgable
I understand the purpose of skills like destruction, its a channel. But this one is not channel, its just an instant high damage skill.
I'm not crying nerf, but I want to know the reasoning behind this skill being so incredible strong.
Newsflash
Block has been invented.
Also, it is not an instant skill.
BTW if Warden killed you with just a cliff racer, you need to L2P.
I've been here longer than most, not much you can do in a battleground where a Warden hit you with 5-8k cliff racers and murders your entire team in 10-15seconds lol
Blocking cost a lot, and you can't turn and face the Warden if they have a tank and a healer sitting on them while they do all the unbdodgable, unreflectable damage in the world.
Man, I have a Mag Warden for PvP. If you are gonna sit here and tell us ONE warden wiped out your team with cliff racers you need a new team or just...uninstall the game. You can't be helped.
Edited by apostate9 on July 10, 2017 7:24PM5 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
1vX isn't a logical basis for balance, I mean you were complaining pretty hard on your stream the other day because you could do nothing when 2 nightblades focused you, and then you showed up exactly why they need some counter to the ridiculous dodge spam when you complained about a nightblade that you were 1v1 with who just triple dodged, didn't even bother to heal and just cloaked.
The only way to logically look at balance is either 1v1 (which will always have a strong element of rock, paper, scissors), or organised groups, e.g - if you are playing as a 4 man pre-made in a bg and you are being focused, it should be looked at in the way how do you cope with a healer, people peeling, etc, not 1 guy alone being focused by X people, that is no sensible basis for balance.
That wasn't to do with dodge itself more like the combination of cloak + dodge. Its my own fault for not getting my detect pots out of the bank, would of kill the guy when he dodged 3-4 times and cloaked to regen. Still annoying though.
Its not even just 1vx even group vs group or 2vX. I watched Jackdaniel stream and he 3 hit a guy with pigeon.
3x 8k crits.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
1vX isn't a logical basis for balance, I mean you were complaining pretty hard on your stream the other day because you could do nothing when 2 nightblades focused you, and then you showed up exactly why they need some counter to the ridiculous dodge spam when you complained about a nightblade that you were 1v1 with who just triple dodged, didn't even bother to heal and just cloaked.
The only way to logically look at balance is either 1v1 (which will always have a strong element of rock, paper, scissors), or organised groups, e.g - if you are playing as a 4 man pre-made in a bg and you are being focused, it should be looked at in the way how do you cope with a healer, people peeling, etc, not 1 guy alone being focused by X people, that is no sensible basis for balance.
Its not even just 1vx even group vs group or 2vX. I watched Jackdaniel stream and he 3 hit a guy with pigeon.
3x 8k crits.
A pug most likely.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
1vX isn't a logical basis for balance, I mean you were complaining pretty hard on your stream the other day because you could do nothing when 2 nightblades focused you, and then you showed up exactly why they need some counter to the ridiculous dodge spam when you complained about a nightblade that you were 1v1 with who just triple dodged, didn't even bother to heal and just cloaked.
The only way to logically look at balance is either 1v1 (which will always have a strong element of rock, paper, scissors), or organised groups, e.g - if you are playing as a 4 man pre-made in a bg and you are being focused, it should be looked at in the way how do you cope with a healer, people peeling, etc, not 1 guy alone being focused by X people, that is no sensible basis for balance.
Its not even just 1vx even group vs group or 2vX. I watched Jackdaniel stream and he 3 hit a guy with pigeon.
3x 8k crits.
A pug most likely.
Think he was just a medium user. Pigeons hit very hard.
The build i wanna use has a 13.6k tooltip without the 15%.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭[
In a situation where you would of lived based on your skill a patch ago a warden can come in and spam an undodgeable ability that by the time the first one hits you the second one is not far behind. I don't care if they increase the damage it just has to be dodgeable to promote skill based pvp to a certain degree.
LOL, the most common builds based on dodge are the epitome of skilless gameplay, where players don't really have to think because the answer is always the same dodge (often multiple times) + shuffle + cloak = get out of jail free card most of the time (and lets not even go into that most players on these builds are using procs to do the burst for them).
Edited by Sylosi on July 11, 2017 12:12AM4 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yet they aren't the best duelers.leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Its not too much of a problem in 1v1.
But when theres more and you dodge roll to try to heal or start getting away and some warden is spamming every second for 5-7k cliff racers what do you do?
If you stop and block you get pelted by the others, you lose regen ticks, your stamina will get completely eaten within 2s.
Only thing blocking achieves is allowing you to stay alive 2s longer than if you didn't dodge due to pigeon spam.
Last patch you'd have a chance because when you roll you'd actually avoid dmg like you was supposed too.
Now if you roll and try to heal you'll be hit very hard.
1vX isn't a logical basis for balance, I mean you were complaining pretty hard on your stream the other day because you could do nothing when 2 nightblades focused you, and then you showed up exactly why they need some counter to the ridiculous dodge spam when you complained about a nightblade that you were 1v1 with who just triple dodged, didn't even bother to heal and just cloaked.
The only way to logically look at balance is either 1v1 (which will always have a strong element of rock, paper, scissors), or organised groups, e.g - if you are playing as a 4 man pre-made in a bg and you are being focused, it should be looked at in the way how do you cope with a healer, people peeling, etc, not 1 guy alone being focused by X people, that is no sensible basis for balance.
Its not even just 1vx even group vs group or 2vX. I watched Jackdaniel stream and he 3 hit a guy with pigeon.
3x 8k crits.
A pug most likely.
Think he was just a medium user. Pigeons hit very hard.
The build i wanna use has a 13.6k tooltip without the 15%.When the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a vicious animal that sees you trying to dodge and changes course to hit you anyway. And DK wings don't work on winged animals, it just makes them angry that you have them at all and they hit you harder.
It is blockable however because it's vicious and focused but not necessarily smart.
/lore reason
Wardens don't have many class skills that do damage, and their damage isn't all that great overall, so adjustments were made. If cliff racer was easily mitigated, the class would be much worse off than it is now.
/speculative reason
Ya dps is weak on warden the only nerf they need is healing thicket... 75 ult cost is joke for how much health you get over 10 seconds..
Ya healing thicket... nerf please0 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭
so sorcs dont have ANY spammable attacks and they are using it from destro staff, NB spammable skill is *** in compare to force pulse in damage and many magnb then also prefer to use force pulse over funnel health to just damage, dk only spammable attacks is in melee range and costly in compare to your cliff racer, templars spmmable also have only in melee range and as channel it also isnt easy to land full channel on your opponenr, you will mostly miss some of those jabs tick if someone is moving and trying to go out from this2 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Screaming+Cliff+Racer
Why is this skill incredible strong?
When playing on my dragonknight I was taking 5k cliff racers to the face in full impen, with my shields and armor up.
5k per cliff racer, that was 5-6 cliff racers in 5seconds, that was 20-30k damage in 5 seconds, I could not reflect, I could not dodge, I could not out-range it... What is the purpose of making a normal skill not reflectable or dodgable
I understand the purpose of skills like destruction, its a channel. But this one is not channel, its just an instant high damage skill.
I'm not crying nerf, but I want to know the reasoning behind this skill being so incredible strong.
Newsflash
Block has been invented.
Also, it is not an instant skill.
BTW if Warden killed you with just a cliff racer, you need to L2P.
I've been here longer than most, not much you can do in a battleground where a Warden hit you with 5-8k cliff racers and murders your entire team in 10-15seconds lol
Blocking cost a lot, and you can't turn and face the Warden if they have a tank and a healer sitting on them while they do all the unbdodgable, unreflectable damage in the world.
Man, I have a Mag Warden for PvP. If you are gonna sit here and tell us ONE warden wiped out your team with cliff racers you need a new team or just...uninstall the game. You can't be helped.
My game has been installed since Alpha, sorry not sorry. Most people have poorly built wardens, as you probably do. Attacking me on the forums is not nessarily a great move. This guy probably had 3-4k spell power, 30k magicka or so and maybe like 1k regen. He was squishy, but like I said he stood back far because the range on a cliff racer is pretty broken, and by any chance of getting him (Since he is on a bridge passed lava, over a cliff) he is shooting them at us, and we can't get to him until we deal with the tank and the healer. FYI, we won.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling0 -
Dustfinger81✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Dustfinger81 wrote: »unless you just stand there and block(lol)
Why wouldn't you? If they are so cavalier about depleting their primary resource, let them break themselves against your wall. If it is using their secondary resource, then there won't be much to block anyway.
Lmao it'll cost you a lot more resources standing there blocking than it will cost them spamming cliff racer, it's cheaper than most other spam skills.
This is the correct response.
Telling people to block is just stupid, specially if cliffracer has a teammate
guess everyone can start running stealth potions LLOOLL
"specially if cliffracer has a teammate"
How many people should you be able to kill by your self when there is also a warden fighting you? I'm curious.
0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It will now also be immune to silence effects. Isn't that just great. Even more cheese spamming for Wardens behind their zerg.1 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭It will now also be immune to silence effects. Isn't that just great. Even more cheese spamming for Wardens behind their zerg.
Its okay, I'll just cower behind my rocks.Dustfinger81 wrote: »
Isn't that the #1 excuse of this game?Dustfinger81 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Dustfinger81 wrote: »unless you just stand there and block(lol)
Why wouldn't you? If they are so cavalier about depleting their primary resource, let them break themselves against your wall. If it is using their secondary resource, then there won't be much to block anyway.
Lmao it'll cost you a lot more resources standing there blocking than it will cost them spamming cliff racer, it's cheaper than most other spam skills.
This is the correct response.
Telling people to block is just stupid, specially if cliffracer has a teammate
guess everyone can start running stealth potions LLOOLL
"specially if cliffracer has a teammate"
How many people should you be able to kill by your self when there is also a warden fighting you? I'm curious.
Before Warden I could survive against 1-3 for a fair time, but maybe kill one in the process, now I have no chance.
Most people in pvp build wrong, or most are bad and a good player can take them, but Warden made bad players good.Edited by Casterial on July 11, 2017 8:07AMDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling2 -
Malmai✭✭✭✭✭
✭[
In a situation where you would of lived based on your skill a patch ago a warden can come in and spam an undodgeable ability that by the time the first one hits you the second one is not far behind. I don't care if they increase the damage it just has to be dodgeable to promote skill based pvp to a certain degree.
LOL, the most common builds based on dodge are the epitome of skilless gameplay, where players don't really have to think because the answer is always the same dodge (often multiple times) + shuffle + cloak = get out of jail free card most of the time (and lets not even go into that most players on these builds are using procs to do the burst for them).
Yea but u have 10k resist and you have to work hard to get away when u take out somebody thats why NBs were made... Dont let me talk about mag sorcs...1 -
hamgatan✭✭✭✭✭Cliff Racer itself doesn't need a nerf damage wise.. what needs to be done about it is range suppression like DK Chains.
It's beginning to get really tiring watching large groups of Wardens stack on crown and spam cliff racer from the top of keep walls doing insanely more damage than siege weapons.. at similar range.
Add range suppression when in a keep to say half the range. That will fix it.PC / NA - 1900 CP
PvE Tanks
L50 Imperial DK (US/DC) "Rampant Rabbit"
L50 Nord Necro (US/DC) "Skeletons In The Closet"
L50 Nord Arcanist (US/EP) "Now Thats a Huge Witch"
PvE Healers
L50 Argonian MagPlar (US/EP) "Smothers-With-Pillows"
L50 Breton MagWarden (US/EP) "Drunk-The-Koolaid"
L50 Altmer MagBlade (US/AD) "Never Goanna Heal You Up"
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L50 PvE DPS Khajit MagDK (US/EP) "Snowflake Crusher"
L50 Dunmer Stam Arcanist PvE DPS (US/EP) "Sends-The-Trout"
L50 Altmer MagSorc PvE DPS (US/DC) "Acirrum" - The vMA/vvH Potatoaky Sorc
L50 Breton StamCro PvE DPS (US/DC) "Ivanna Fakakakis"
L50 PvE DPS Argonian StamPlar (US/EP) "The Rusty Argonian Spade"
L50 PvE DPS Khajit StamPlar (US/EP) "Critteh Kitteh"
L50 Dunmer MagDK PvE DPS (US/DC) "Deep Fried Bin Chicken"
Bank Skanks
L20 Redguard StamBlade PvP Tank (US/AD) "Sneak Dogg"
L40 Orc StamDen PvE DPS (US/EP) "Fugly Betty"
PvP DPS
L50 Orc StamSorc PvE DPS (US/AD) "Fraggle Proc"
Xbox One / NA - 360 CPL50 Altmer MagBlade (US/AD) "Cork Soaking"
L10 Argonian Templar (US/EP) "Makes-Me-Moist"
L10 Argonian MagDK (US/EP) "<Forced-Name-Change>"
L27 Altmer MagSorc (US/EP) "Sorcie McSorcface"
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