DPS queueing as healers or tanks

max_only · July 2017

I'm a tank that queues as a tank. I just suck lol

Nah but really, I went through that CoS boss you are discussing with different groups. I was always being pinned down. One group bashed the pair right away so I could roll right away. One group kept me topped up so i could block through the one-shot after being pinned. One group would leave me pinned for so long, it was hell trying to predict when to roll out/sprint out - we kept wiping and it was blamed on me (I offered no comment because lol how long will they be waiting for another tank). It really is a fight that challenges teamwork and coordination.

Notice: I didn't specify which group had a lvl 25 Templar healer without shards, a cp200some sorcerer healer without orbs, and a cp170some warden healer.

You just gotta be ZEN af when grouping. That's all there is to it.

Megabear · July 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Guilty as charged. I queue as tank on my sorcerer to farm some normal instances and end up doing 60-80% group DPS

Oh I don't mind at all if a "tank" is OP for the dungeon. I just roll with it and focus on looting provisions and keeping the "tank" alive to the best of my ability LOL

I only boot if the dungeon won't be completed even with OP DPS joining instead of a true tank..

agingerinohio · July 2017

This is exactly why I am now training sword and board on my Templar healer. Just this morning I ended up having to tank, heal and DD 3 out of 5 dungeons because a DD queued up as a tank and dps was low.

idk · July 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

I want them to get rid of the multi queuing ability.

Too many Mr. clever DPS guys who can't wait in line like the others.

So people who can do multiple roles are forced to select one?

I guess those who can truly do multiple roles but prefer one over the other can chooose to forum their own groups making the GF queue even longer.

Heck, healin 4 man dungeons is usually pretty easy. I mostly do damage as a healer and only jabs 2 - 3 heals sloted. BoL, regen and repent. On a Sorc if would be regen and combat prayer. The rest would be dps skills.

Giraffon · July 2017

If I'm running a dungeon and I can perform multiple functions, I will often "hold back" on the non-queued skills. This most often happens with my sorc damage dealer. He can pretty much do it all. He's got healing orbs and tons of magic. Can deal damage but is also rather tanky. But if I queued up as a DD, then that's what I do. I make sure I'm doing an excellent job in my selected role often times setting up other players to make them look and feel good. If we get in a bind and a little extra healing is needed, the orbs start flying everywhere because I have tons of magic, but afterwards, I just put them away and don't use them again unless we get in trouble. If the tank is getting the beat down, then I'll throw a taunt at boss and keep him busy so the tank has a chance to recover a little before getting back in the fight.

It's a very subtle and satisfying experience to run dungeons and be in that position.

So yeah, don't run ahead and show off. Nobody will be impressed. Mostly they will find you annoying.

O_LYKOS · July 2017

Once I had a sorc come in, he's healing, when in fact I was the legit q'd healer. I question it, no response so I leave him to it and do what dps I could. We come to the last bosss, he goes werewolf.

People will always do whatever they want whether it benefits the team or not lmao you can only do as I did, stand back speechless and watch.

Tan9oSuccka · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

I want them to get rid of the multi queuing ability.

Too many Mr. clever DPS guys who can't wait in line like the others.

So people who can do multiple roles are forced to select one?

I guess those who can truly do multiple roles but prefer one over the other can chooose to forum their own groups making the GF queue even longer.

Heck, healin 4 man dungeons is usually pretty easy. I mostly do damage as a healer and only jabs 2 - 3 heals sloted. BoL, regen and repent. On a Sorc if would be regen and combat prayer. The rest would be dps skills.

Champion point allocation is vastly different for the three roles. I suppose one could adequately balance points and carry multiple sets of armor and be serviceable.

I run Pug Vet dungeons quite extensively over the last two years and have found most, almost all are damage guys looking for faster groups.

Best example was a multiqued pug "healer" in Vet WGT.

He was a DPS Mag Sorc that didn't heal squat and everyone died except me (tank).

I said over voice, Healer WTF?

His response: (While dead) he replies with "If YOU'RE good enough, you don't need a healer".

#puglife

eso_nya · July 2017

HalloweenWeed wrote: »

eso_nya wrote: »

Id like a soloinstance with tank-challenge, healer-challenge and dd-challenge u have to beat in order to unlock role-icons for vet-modes groupfinder.

Interesting idea, and I would agree except for the actual implementation (ZOS) part. Heck, they've been working on the group finder for how long - and still haven't gotten it right. Then there's the newer Battlegrounds - still patching. And would you trust them to implement a test for role? I wouldn't. Even if they implemented a system to check stats for possible roles - would be buggy as heck. This is why I think they must leave that unchanged, the way it is.
What's worse than players that aren't tanks queuing as tanks? Player that ARE tanks NOT being allowed to queue as tanks.

Not only that, as was said the player execution of plays is the biggest thing that makes a difference. And tanks MUST taunt, or they're worthless in some situations. I'd bet many of the players that think they are tanking don't even have a taunt ability - or know to use it.

Oh, my upcoming tank on the PC NA server is Casontril BTW. Lv 40 presently.

Let me specify what i had in mind:
No changes to Groupfinder for normal dungeons.
For veteran dungeons, as soon as u reach cp160, u get sth like the undaunted invite, which leads to a npc, like the guys from the crafting certifications, who tells a bit about holy trinity and than lets u pick which of the 3 roles u wanna do. As in the certifications, u should be allowed to pick all of them one by one.
After picking one, u get teleported into some kind of soloinstance, which should be doable in 10~15 minutes and gives a task according to the role u pick: Turn aoes away, chain mobs, survive incoming dmg; heal a npc thru some heavy burst; beat down a target with 250k hp and 10k hps. Something in the lines of that. Not brutaly hard, but to get an idea of what waits for u in vet dungeons. Finetuning might be the biggest issue here, as i wouldnt want it so hard, that u need to practise for a week to beat it, nor would i want that u can just run in as whatever and have your bear or shrimp take care of it.
After u complete one of those quests, u earn a roletoken, means, u r allowed to queue for dungeons in that specific role.
If u have a char with 3 gearsets, and know what u r doing, u can complete all of them in 30 mins and keep doing what u always did.
if u dont e.g. have a tankgear and no idea what a taunt does, u wont be able to complete tankchallenge and thus not be able to q as tank.
If u dont do any of the quests, well, u cant q for vet dungeons.

Test for role never sounded like a good idea to me, cause its to easy to bypass. You'd just end up with ppl running s&b and green max hp food.

josiahva · July 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

The blood fountain boss comes along (the human who spawns the red clones of himself), and the tank just got repeatedly 1 or 2 shot. There's no healing through that, and we couldn't rez the tank fast enough for the pull not to fall apart. Tried it a few more times, then had to boot the tank.

Was he dying on the spin attack, or after the teleport?

* The spin attack on normal can be survived with 20k health or so as long as you block it.
* The teleport move is always a oneshot. The players who don't get tethered down need to bash the shadows so the person tied down can move out of the way (just sprint away/rolldodge twice away)

I'm not dismissing you, but that fight requires a lot more than others from DPS players due to the mechanics. If you don't do them, the tank is always going to die/get one-shot.

I understand there are things for the dps to do, but it was mostly on the tank. He wasn't blocking a lot of the big hits, not interrupting a lot of the wind-up attacks, and just dying all the time. Again, this guy had like 25k health, and he probably wasn't in tank gear. Who knows if he had the right passives or armor on.

As for the tether move, we freed the target every time. Does he teleport to the target and oneshot them if you fail that? In previous groups before that day I'd noticed the person always died, but I'd never observed a teleport.

That guy is very kite-able. Just saying. I've kited him before up until I'd get chained on my 16k health sorc, no streak, no speed buff. Granted I was doing 0 dps pretty much but he is possible to do without a proper tank. That was on vet too, the thing is all his attacks are conveniently very melee range.

It doesn't excuse bad tanks, it simply means if you and just one other person(needed to bash) know what they're doing you can pass him with or without a tank.

Also, one thing a lot of people don't understand is that bash doesn't interrupt his heavy when someone is chained, it only breaks the person free so they're able to avoid it. Do basically once you're un-chained you MUST dodge or block/shield, no exceptions. A lot of people simply don't realize this on their first runs so it really helps if you tell them(assuming of course they're capable of listening at all).

Are you sure you're not talking about a vet mechanic that doesn't exist on normal? We were consistently breaking out the trapped person by bashing the two clones, but I don't remember any extra aoe cone from the boss during that timeframe, or even a heavy attack during it for that matter. That being said, i try to keep my distance from that particular boss to give the healer one less melee to worry about.

It was pretty rare that one of us would die, 90% of the time it was the tank at certain times, and the pull would fall apart because he'd run around killing all of us before rezzes could be done.

yes, he ALWAYS heavy attacks after the person pinned is broken free...block or dodge or die

HalloweenWeed wrote: »

eso_nya wrote: »

Id like a soloinstance with tank-challenge, healer-challenge and dd-challenge u have to beat in order to unlock role-icons for vet-modes groupfinder.

Interesting idea, and I would agree except for the actual implementation (ZOS) part. Heck, they've been working on the group finder for how long - and still haven't gotten it right. Then there's the newer Battlegrounds - still patching. And would you trust them to implement a test for role? I wouldn't. Even if they implemented a system to check stats for possible roles - would be buggy as heck. This is why I think they must leave that unchanged, the way it is.
What's worse than players that aren't tanks queuing as tanks? Player that ARE tanks NOT being allowed to queue as tanks.

Not only that, as was said the player execution of plays is the biggest thing that makes a difference. And tanks MUST taunt, or they're worthless in some situations. I'd bet many of the players that think they are tanking don't even have a taunt ability - or know to use it.

Oh, my upcoming tank on the PC NA server is Casontril BTW. Lv 40 presently.

While all tanks must taunt...that is only true of certain situations. As an example, I have a tank that holds aggro on all mobs through sheer damage output(he puts out 20k single target, 60kish mob) as long as I hit first and hard, the mob will stay aggroed on me...and if one or two decide to go after someone else, well, thats what chains(or inner fire) is for. I do still actually taunt dangerous ads and all bosses with him...but very limited taunting when it comes to mobs...works like a charm, the downside is its far more difficult to play than a meat tank, and surviving vRoM is VERY difficult(but possible) so I dont take him there often, I instead take my meat tank. The point being there are different ways to tank that can be equally effective.

idk · July 2017

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

I want them to get rid of the multi queuing ability.

Too many Mr. clever DPS guys who can't wait in line like the others.

So people who can do multiple roles are forced to select one?

I guess those who can truly do multiple roles but prefer one over the other can chooose to forum their own groups making the GF queue even longer.

Heck, healin 4 man dungeons is usually pretty easy. I mostly do damage as a healer and only jabs 2 - 3 heals sloted. BoL, regen and repent. On a Sorc if would be regen and combat prayer. The rest would be dps skills.

Champion point allocation is vastly different for the three roles. I suppose one could adequately balance points and carry multiple sets of armor and be serviceable.

I run Pug Vet dungeons quite extensively over the last two years and have found most, almost all are damage guys looking for faster groups.

Best example was a multiqued pug "healer" in Vet WGT.

He was a DPS Mag Sorc that didn't heal squat and everyone died except me (tank).

I said over voice, Healer WTF?

His response: (While dead) he replies with "If YOU'RE good enough, you don't need a healer".

#puglife

@Tan9oSuccka

For mere 4 man dungeons, even in vet, CP allocation isn't that important.

I've healed vICP and vWGT before they were nerfed in dps spek concerning my CP. Healing in almost all the 4 man dungeons doesn't require much unless the group is bad at avoiding damage. Even then I can handle it with my dps CP but contribute less dps myself.

I've also tanked vet dungeons with DPS CP. has meant to change it but didn't. No issues though I noticed I burned stamina faster since I had less cost reduction for blocking.

Your example was a bad healer or one that wasn't healing at all which is rather irrelevant to CP.

BTW, I've pulled 30k+ on a dungeon boss while healing and no one died. Usuallu more like 20kish.

neal_brasier · July 2017

vovus69 wrote: »

I do random normals and regular normal dungeons a lot. My rule of thumb looks like this:
1) all I and II dungeons with exception of Darkshade II - doesn't matter. Even one vet (me) and 3 non vets will dps through
2) Darkshade II - absolute minimum - 2 vets, one dps (me) and one heal. If heal is non vet - you should tell him what to do when last boss went to green phase.
3) DLC dungeons - ICP and WGT - three vets min. If I see two non vets on normal, I am leaving.
4) DLC dungeons - RoM and CoS - four vets, no exclusions. Those have weird mechanics and it should be done properly. If there are no four vets, I am leaving.

Follow this up and you will be fine all the time

-vovus

If you need 3 other vet players to carry you through rom you really need to l2p

Danika · July 2017

Dracindo wrote: »

There once was an Argonian by the name of Dracindo, who stayed away from endgame PvE content as much as he could, and ended up living a stress-free life in Tamriel.

The End.

Living a stress free life in Tamriel... sounds good to me. After reading all the comments in this thread, I am planning to pass on all endgame content.

Magdalina · July 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

The blood fountain boss comes along (the human who spawns the red clones of himself), and the tank just got repeatedly 1 or 2 shot. There's no healing through that, and we couldn't rez the tank fast enough for the pull not to fall apart. Tried it a few more times, then had to boot the tank.

Was he dying on the spin attack, or after the teleport?

* The spin attack on normal can be survived with 20k health or so as long as you block it.
* The teleport move is always a oneshot. The players who don't get tethered down need to bash the shadows so the person tied down can move out of the way (just sprint away/rolldodge twice away)

I'm not dismissing you, but that fight requires a lot more than others from DPS players due to the mechanics. If you don't do them, the tank is always going to die/get one-shot.

I understand there are things for the dps to do, but it was mostly on the tank. He wasn't blocking a lot of the big hits, not interrupting a lot of the wind-up attacks, and just dying all the time. Again, this guy had like 25k health, and he probably wasn't in tank gear. Who knows if he had the right passives or armor on.

As for the tether move, we freed the target every time. Does he teleport to the target and oneshot them if you fail that? In previous groups before that day I'd noticed the person always died, but I'd never observed a teleport.

That guy is very kite-able. Just saying. I've kited him before up until I'd get chained on my 16k health sorc, no streak, no speed buff. Granted I was doing 0 dps pretty much but he is possible to do without a proper tank. That was on vet too, the thing is all his attacks are conveniently very melee range.

It doesn't excuse bad tanks, it simply means if you and just one other person(needed to bash) know what they're doing you can pass him with or without a tank.

Also, one thing a lot of people don't understand is that bash doesn't interrupt his heavy when someone is chained, it only breaks the person free so they're able to avoid it. Do basically once you're un-chained you MUST dodge or block/shield, no exceptions. A lot of people simply don't realize this on their first runs so it really helps if you tell them(assuming of course they're capable of listening at all).

Are you sure you're not talking about a vet mechanic that doesn't exist on normal? We were consistently breaking out the trapped person by bashing the two clones, but I don't remember any extra aoe cone from the boss during that timeframe, or even a heavy attack during it for that matter. That being said, i try to keep my distance from that particular boss to give the healer one less melee to worry about.

It was pretty rare that one of us would die, 90% of the time it was the tank at certain times, and the pull would fall apart because he'd run around killing all of us before rezzes could be done.

Hmm. Not sure. I don't think I've ever done it on normal actually XD I know it's #1 tank killer on vet so thought would mention it.

Phica_Lovic · July 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

I random qued Saturday and got normal Crade of Shadows. It went okay, even though the tank was a 30-something warden tank, because both myself and the other dps were decent and we had a good healer.

The blood fountain boss comes along (the human who spawns the red clones of himself), and the tank just got repeatedly 1 or 2 shot. There's no healing through that, and we couldn't rez the tank fast enough for the pull not to fall apart. Tried it a few more times, then had to boot the tank.

Got another tank, also a 20-something with like 20k hp. Got rekt, we boot him, que up again. A third tank comes in, level 21 templar with 18k hp, and I flat out ask him "hey man, do you at least have a tank set you haven't equipped yet, or know the mecahnics in here?" and he just responds with "it's cool I'll leave". We went through three "tanks" over the course of an hour, and not one of them was able to do this content. We ultimately disbanded, on the second to last boss.

Hey, does anyone remember that time I made a whole thread about lowbies being able to get DLC and II dungeons in their normal random ques is a huge problem, and the vast majority said I was crazy? Because I sure remember!

lol Normal CoS

LadyNalcarya · July 2017

DivinityDay wrote: »

Sorc DPS here, I q up as TANK, HEALS and DPS. Then, once in the dungeon I run though ALL the rooms, pull all the bosses and adds and burn them down in the last room. Then I just cool walk away.

And leave people in your group with unfinished pledge (since bosses reset if you pull them too far away) and dungeon quest (obviously).

Kali_Despoine · July 2017

It's a burden sometimes using GF.
If the healer ot tank is a dps then I just stand back and watch.
Might pull a heavy now and then and work the mechanics if need be but I will let the solo artist do his thing.
If a dps queues as a tank and I get aggro I always walk the boss to reset.
Then use the emote "Tank the Boss"
I'm not trying to kite anything it is the tanks job to hold him still so I can do my thing.
If dps queues as healer I will try to die as often as possible even though I can self sustain my own health for the most part.

If your a solo artist that queues up for the wrong role be ready cause I have taught this to my entire guild and you will solo the content for us.
When it's all said and done and your pissed and say I/we suck we'll just laugh and say learn your role. XD