Let's talk about bow / bow wardens

subtlezeroub17_ESO · July 2017

Yes, before the min / max'ers come in. We already know they won't be top dps. However, bow / bow Wardens can still push out viable dps for even veteran Trials. Even Alchast believes it to be so. Matter fact, bow / bow Wardens easily out dps magicka Wardens.

This is a thread for hipsters like myself who've decided to go against the grain. Let's discuss builds, skill load outs, weapons and gear. Perhaps, good discussion can lead to better results with our dps.

Lughlongarm · July 2017

Let's assume you chose to PVE DPS bow/bow for fun and you don't care about performance. You would probably want to play the bow in a way that would emphasize you weapon of choice. With a bow(I would guess), is to DPS from a distance and in this way to take advantage of bow mechanism and theme. Even Alcast build uses the Bow in a melee range, so what is really the point?

Masel · July 2017

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Let's assume you chose to PVE DPS bow/bow for fun and you don't care about performance. You would probably want to play the bow in a way that would emphasize you weapon of choice. With a bow(I would guess), is to DPS from a distance and in this way to take advantage of bow mechanism and theme. Even Alcast build uses the Bow in a melee range, so what is really the point?

Best is certainly 5 VO, 5 TFS, sharpened master and vma bow. You can also go with spriggan instead of VO and use non sharpened weapons, especially infused on a maelstrom bow front bar is really strong. You could in fact use dual infused as the master bow enchant works on the back bar too.

AverageJo3Gam3r · July 2017

I was only able to get 23k dps or so using 3vo, 2 veli, 5 spriggan, nonset sharpened bow, and vma back bar bow. Veli worked well since it is the same range as sub assault.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · July 2017

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Let's assume you chose to PVE DPS bow/bow for fun and you don't care about performance. You would probably want to play the bow in a way that would emphasize you weapon of choice. With a bow(I would guess), is to DPS from a distance and in this way to take advantage of bow mechanism and theme. Even Alcast build uses the Bow in a melee range, so what is really the point?

Because bows are what I like ? And I suppose the min / max fellows would still give their two cents.

And secondly, I already aknowledged the fact that bows won't be the top dps and probably won't be competing in for a spot in a top 10 guild, but they still put out respectable dps as a stamina Warden. Enough to complete trials with given correct gearing and skill.

Also, with your logic, what is the point of dps'ing with any other class other than a magicka sorc ? People play what is fun; to me that is a bow build.

Anti_Virus · July 2017

Wow I thought I was the only one running this build.

SodanTok · July 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wow I thought I was the only one running this build.

There are 'many', but most keep themself hidden from the minmax folk (by soloing or playing with friends and guildmates) that are easily triggered by anything bow related.

Anti_Virus · July 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wow I thought I was the only one running this build.

There are 'many', but most keep themself hidden from the minmax folk (by soloing or playing with friends and guildmates) that are easily triggered by anything bow related.

Unfortunately since warden has no ranged CC it's difficult to play in pvp.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · July 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wow I thought I was the only one running this build.

There are 'many', but most keep themself hidden from the minmax folk (by soloing or playing with friends and guildmates) that are easily triggered by anything bow related.

Unfortunately since warden has no ranged CC it's difficult to play in pvp.

Well, luckily pvp is only half of the game. Honestly, that's an issue for the whole warden class.

SodanTok · July 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wow I thought I was the only one running this build.

There are 'many', but most keep themself hidden from the minmax folk (by soloing or playing with friends and guildmates) that are easily triggered by anything bow related.

Unfortunately since warden has no ranged CC it's difficult to play in pvp.

You tell me, been playing PVP with him since Morrowind. Feels like playing melee class with worse damage because I have to constantly be in draining shot range (might aswell slot dawnbreaker which has the same range)

Keep_Door · July 2017

No

Smasherx74 · July 2017

warden can't DPS. Just get on one of your other characters if you want to dps.

KingYogi415 · July 2017

If you don't have a vma bow your chances of pulling 20k+ dps are Pretty low.

If you are good enough to pull 20k you could have just learned a real rotation and be pulling 35k.

So yes for a top player pulling almost max dps, gimping yourself for fun could be possible and only pulling half that could be viable.

If you have a group of 11 people who can clear a trial no problem sure they could carry your 20k dps through. Just don't be surprised if a trial leader sees you using snipe and decides not to risk the time of 11 other people so you can feel like a special snowflake.

Cheers!

Anti_Virus · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

If you don't have a vma bow your chances of pulling 20k+ Pretty low.

If you are good enough to pull 20k you could have just learned a real rotation and be pulling 35k.

So yes for a top player pulling almost max dps, gimping yourself for fun could be possible and only pulling half that could be viable.

If you have a group of 11 people who can clear a trial no problem sure they could carry your 20kdps through. Just don't be surprised if a trial leader sees you using snipe and decides not to risk the time of 11 other people so you can feel like a special snowflake.

Cheers!

Over used man, next time add something reasonable to the discussion instead of snarky remarks.

KingYogi415 · July 2017

So because you don't like one term I use my entire post as snark and unreasonable?

Interesting...

I agreed that bow/bow could be viable, just not with random players. Vet trials are hard enough to beat for 99% percent of the game. Only the elite will take on the challenge of running with non optimal builds.

DocFrost72 · July 2017

Must it be a warden? I rock a sorc bow-bow that pulls 24k self buffed on a skellie. With raid buffs, I'm sure I could top over 30k

For warden though, try what I have: 5 piece hawk eye, 5 VO, 1 kra'gh.

Focused aim, poison inject, endless hail, rearming trap, (sorc- bound armaments) any animal companion skill; bear/ flawless dawnbreaker.

(Sorc-crit surge) bull netch, (sorc- dark deal) bird of prey or whichever gives the minor berserk, (sorc- bombard for implosion/physical dmg buff) acid spray, anti- cavalry/razor caltrops, (sorc bound armaments) green lotus; Ballista.

Weapon power, crit, and restore stam pots and Camoran drink.

You should be good with just one recovery glyph, letting you run 2 da mage ones.

DocFrost72 · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

If you don't have a vma bow your chances of pulling 20k+ dps are Pretty low.

If you are good enough to pull 20k you could have just learned a real rotation and be pulling 35k.

So yes for a top player pulling almost max dps, gimping yourself for fun could be possible and only pulling half that could be viable.

If you have a group of 11 people who can clear a trial no problem sure they could carry your 20k dps through. Just don't be surprised if a trial leader sees you using snipe and decides not to risk the time of 11 other people so you can feel like a special snowflake.

Cheers!

T-T-TRIGGERED!

Edit for clarification: it wasn't ONE word

Bladerunner1 · July 2017

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · July 2017

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

Wardens don't need snipe or focused aim. We have a spammable and minor fracture already built into our rotation.

Bladerunner1 · July 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

Wardens don't need snipe or focused aim. We have a spammable and minor fracture already built into our rotation.

No, Wardens have major fracture.
Focused aim is the only other skill in the game that gives minor fracture, and it's not for spamming, the cliffracer is the spam skill.

Anti_Virus · July 2017

KingYogi415 wrote: »

So because you don't like one term I use my entire post as snark and unreasonable?

Interesting...

I agreed that bow/bow could be viable, just not with random players. Vet trials are hard enough to beat for 99% percent of the game. Only the elite will take on the challenge of running with non optimal builds.

Agreed, I wish
Zos optimized Bow builds to be able to compete with other weapon styles.

DocFrost72 · July 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

Wardens don't need snipe or focused aim. We have a spammable and minor fracture already built into our rotation.

I tested it. Without the hawk eye passive, focused aim ends up dealing more damage.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · July 2017

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

Wardens don't need snipe or focused aim. We have a spammable and minor fracture already built into our rotation.

No, Wardens have major fracture.
Focused aim is the only other skill in the game that gives minor fracture, and it's not for spamming, the cliffracer is the spam skill.

Sorry, mistake lol.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · July 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

Wardens don't need snipe or focused aim. We have a spammable and minor fracture already built into our rotation.

I tested it. Without the hawk eye passive, focused aim ends up dealing more damage.

My main concern with focused aim is the fact that it's casted and awkward to LA weave with.

DocFrost72 · July 2017

I totally get that, but having a non warden build first I learned to weave with snipe, so I suppose I had a bit of practice. Lemme dig up the comparison for you, just in case what you see sways you (or if you can see a mistake step I made!).

The benefit of the swoopy, screechy damage bird is that you heal on dealing damage (bond with nature). Not sure why zos did that, but you'll get a decent heal between that and green lotus (if you run that), so you'll be more survivable than someone running snipe. That's merit in and if itself.

EDIT: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/353147/some-science-please-help#latest

SodanTok · July 2017

DocFrost72 wrote: »

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Wouldn't Guardian's Savagery work well with the War Machine 5 piece set? It's a cheap 75 ultimate and Wardens can pick up Ultimate very quickly.

How about War Machine X5 (including bow on one bar) Bone Pirate X5, kragh shoulder or helmet, Maelstrom bow on the other bar

Focused Aim for the minor fracture buff in place of something.

Bosmer Vamp drinking Dubious Camoran. Try to avoid heavy attacks for Regen, it's a DPS killer on bow.

Wardens don't need snipe or focused aim. We have a spammable and minor fracture already built into our rotation.

I tested it. Without the hawk eye passive, focused aim ends up dealing more damage.

Dont forget long shot too (unless you were testing them both from melee range), but yes focused aim as spammable does overall the best skeleton DPS. The difference gets smaller if you play from melee range and even smaller (even up to a point where cutting dive is better) once you get to little more chaotic fight where you have to move from red.

If you could enjoy full ranged experience focused aim would be probably better in all situations
Dont ask me why the combat in this game works the way everyone has to stand on top of boss... or more why healing and mostly combat prayer work that way.

DocFrost72 · July 2017

@SodanTok I can only speak to normal trials as my benchmark, but the only times I've needed to stack was during particularly hectic trash fights (safety rock after the atronach in AA, certain rooms in SO etc). On bosses, it really does help to be 33m away. Some bosses attacks don't even reach that far, but your bow attacks will! You just need to move within 25m every ten seconds for endless hail.

Though this may be because I run a sorc with crit surge, so I'm getting healed 3-5k every second anyway.