Are YOU happy with the MW/Update 14 sustain changes?

revonine · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Honestly I've adapted to the changes just fine, but I really was not okay with the further gutting of the classes just to address this power creep in the champion system.

Gilvoth · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

they are Bad changes, and it will get worse. because the people making the decisions simply don't belong in thier job.

TARAFRAKA · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

ParaNostram wrote: »

The game is challenging again acrossed the board for me, I love it. I have to think when do I use abilities when do I not instead of the twitch fest of animation cancelling to spend resources that never ran out fast enough.

i take it you are not a fan of animation cancelling?

Anlace · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

I don't enjoy micromanaging my magicka pool, and I really don't enjoy running through potions like crazy in PvP. I'm not sure what they were trying for with these changes, but for me it made combat less fun.

Which is exactly what the PTS testers told them, so I guess that wasn't the big concern.

Keldheir · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

The changes are bad. It's not so much the resource management because I have always used a lot of heavy attacks, so I hardly ever run out of resources. What I hate so much about the changes is that I am now forced to use a staff on my magicka characters. My main was a bosmer magicka templar with sword and shield. Just for the defense, no one handed skills. She never died and no enemy was too tough, even with low dps. I had so much fun with her but now she's dead.

Alucardo · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be BAD BUT I WAS WRONG

I was playing mdk before Morrowind and just after Morrowind (before switching to Warden). Honestly I thought it'd be really bad but it actually didn't hurt me much at all. I've always built for sustain anyway I guess, so I was somewhat prepared for the changes.
Sustain on magicka warden seems to be really good too. Rarely do I need to dip into my pots, except when poisoned.

Teridaxus · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be good and THEY ARE

People actually have to think about their sustain instead of maxing their damage.
Proc sets are still cancer and were the least affected on top of it.

pod88kk · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be GOOD BUT I WAS WRONG

I thought I was pulling good dps then I read the patch notes & thought ha that'll clear out the noobs...... Turns out I am one of the noobs

TARAFRAKA · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Teridaxus wrote: »

People actually have to think about their sustain instead of maxing their damage.
Proc sets are still cancer and were the least affected on top of it.

i have never understood this. why do ppl equate managing resources with skill?
having to heavy attack to fire off a few more skills doesnt feel more skillful to me at all. honestly if i had it my way i wouldve reverted all sustain nerfs and doubled base regen in pve ONLY.
In Pve, the mechanics is where you show your skill, not by constantly staring at resource bars.
Yes you have to be careful in VMA and vet trials etc but now it just constantly seems like my toons are starved for resources and end up spamming heavies. That is the dullest combat system ever and it is quickly becoming excrutiatingly painful.

WuffyCerulei · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be BAD BUT I WAS WRONG

When they changed the heavy attack resource return, I wasn't so against it. Though PvE suffered a little, PvP, more so in CP campaigns, has become more balanced and has much less in the way of unkillable and eternal sustain players. You need to actually be careful of resources more.

Phytanic · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be GOOD BUT I WAS WRONG

No. The game just stopped being fun for me. When the update droppes, I went from a consistent 35k! to an abysmal 25k on my magplar. My (unfinished) Magdk went from ~34k to a ~29k as well. That was the first blow.

Didnt/don't have the time to really put in solid rotation work like a I did during homestead, because of a new job that I just started before the patch dropped.

Anyways, raiding (Or preparing/practicing for) was the only thing that consumed my time. Now, I VERY clearly was not the only one who was no no-longer up to par, but at least I was one of the few who admitted it...

TARAFRAKA · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Anlace wrote: »

I don't enjoy micromanaging my magicka pool, and I really don't enjoy running through potions like crazy in PvP. I'm not sure what they were trying for with these changes, but for me it made combat less fun.

Which is exactly what the PTS testers told them, so I guess that wasn't the big concern.

this. i dont undersyand why micromanaging resource bars is considered skillful. isnt it more skillful to choose the right action to perform in the situation, block offensr ability roll etc? that takes skill.
standing sfill and just dying because you ran of an artificial resource the game invented is...odd to me.

Alucardo · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be BAD BUT I WAS WRONG

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

People actually have to think about their sustain instead of maxing their damage.
Proc sets are still cancer and were the least affected on top of it.

i have never understood this. why do ppl equate managing resources with skill?
having to heavy attack to fire off a few more skills doesnt feel more skillful to me at all. honestly if i had it my way i wouldve reverted all sustain nerfs and doubled base regen in pve ONLY.
In Pve, the mechanics is where you show your skill, not by constantly staring at resource bars.
Yes you have to be careful in VMA and vet trials etc but now it just constantly seems like my toons are starved for resources and end up spamming heavies. That is the dullest combat system ever and it is quickly becoming excrutiatingly painful.

Because if you just straight up heavy attack someone with a resto staff they will beat your face in. So I make sure I have a shield up and I'm standing in my tree ult or something so I can survive the onslaught of damage while I get off a few heavy attacks.
Before Morrowind you could invest everything into damage and not even worry about your resources. Now it actually takes a rather balanced build, in most cases.
The changes were needed, and I really do feel like it's a lot better now than it was before.

Rohaus · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be BAD BUT I WAS WRONG

I really did think it was going to be bad... but I was wrong... I love the changes.

My only beef with the game right now are slow queues for BG's, Sorcs , and proc sets.

Juhasow · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be good and THEY ARE

I would only agree about light/medium armor changes those were not needed imo. Played almost every class as DD some on PTS others on live excluding warden in stamina.

Mojmir · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

nope, should have explored other options or not so been so heavy handed across the board.

LZH · July 2017

OTHER

In PvE some form of sustain change had to happen, but this one was a little too drastic. I think the problem is that spammables are far too expensive to warrant using in most builds now. So what we have is a lot of the best builds (MagSorc and StamDK) not even utilizing spammable abilities and instead speccing fully into damage and then solely heavy attacking between applying DoTs. This is bad gameplay IMO.

I think abilities like Force pulse, Rapid Strikes, etc. need to have their costs lowered drastically. Along the lines of where Swallow Soul currently is.

mesmerizedish · July 2017

OTHER

I thought they wouldn't make much of a difference after I'd adjusted them, and now that I've adjusted, I find that they haven't made much of a difference. I heavy attack more, but that helps keep my left wrist from cramping up, so I'm on board.

BigBragg · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

I understand why the dev team identified sustain as over-performing and an issue that that wanted to address. I even agree with them on that base concept.

However the changes made have been very heavy handed. It is most noticeable when healing through content and teammates are going through shards, orb, and pots on cool down and still having issues with maintaining resources. Sure builds can be adjust, yes things are still completed, but this has become too much of an arduous focal point in playing PvE content.

In PvP, they just took out the knee caps for No CP, which used to be my favorite.

Yakidafi · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be BAD BUT I WAS WRONG

The youtubers and so made it sound horrible, but really is not too big of a difference. Sure I have to HA more but can still sustain for very long! Just add 1 or 2 cost reduction to jewelery If having problems.
Major thing why I do not have a problem with it is cause I was already playing like this for sustain I think and for that reason do not have to change my playstyle, most players used to spamming stuff I guess

Excaltic wrote: »

But again... these changes are -not- fun for PvE. Especially for stamina characters... I can't even sustain my StamSorc with 3200 (!!) stamina regen... I mean... wtf??!? Yes, I can use Dark Deal 4x in a row every 24 seconds and get max stamina back, but that crashes my DPS into the ground -even- more...

Well if you can not do that , then you are doing atleast something wrong.

ChuckyPayne · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

They did it. Sustain changes, changed the meta. It is good, but the other side they didn't do balance. (Skill costs, end content mechanic changes).

These changes what is it mean to the top players, top teams in PVE? Nothing!!! Before nerf they did ~ 50-60K dps on a boss after nerf they do 40K? Is it so much different? Not for them. They do end-contents as smoothly as before.

And what is it mean usual to the semi-hc players? Lots. Before nerf, we can do veteran mode trials smoothly without MA weapons, after nert we don't.

I do not understand the developer logic.
- All end-game content is about pure dps. If you and your team has low dps you can't do trials arenas. If you have very high dps you can skip almost every boss mechanic and they nerf dps.
- There is animation cancel it is work as intended but with this you can do +100% dps (side effect). Ok we will keep animation cancel but with +100% dps we need do end-contents much harder. They build all content to animation cancel and they nerf dps.
- And almost all boss has rage phase and they nerf dps.

I feel they don't know what they are doing just trying or maybe they only build group contents for the 1% of player base.

StormWylf · July 2017

OTHER

In truth I did not know what to expect. But I really have not had a problem with the changes. You have to pay attention to what you are doing, you just can't spam buttons without thought. I like that.

Per the OP's request, primarily PvE, and am playing a toon from each class including Warden.

witchdoctor · July 2017

OTHER

Excaltic wrote: »

But again... these changes are -not- fun for PvE. Especially for stamina characters... I can't even sustain my StamSorc with 3200 (!!) stamina regen... I mean... wtf??!? Yes, I can use Dark Deal 4x in a row every 24 seconds and get max stamina back, but that crashes my DPS into the ground -even- more...

No offence, but you need to look further than just blaming the sustain changes. You may want to consider your rotation and mess with some enchants.

Because, unless you are *seriously* exaggerating, this is a sign of some other problem.

witchdoctor · July 2017

OTHER

I figured people like Deltia were exaggerating, and I think I am right. I decided I'd wait to see it myself before I made any conclusions. Hence my vote of 'other.'

I do a mix of PVP and not-at-the-tip-of-the-spear PVE. Normal trials, plus vet dungeons if I feel like it.

My stamsorc is my main. Yes, I have to toss in a HA every so often to keep my sustain up. But otherwise, its been fine.

JinMori · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

People actually have to think about their sustain instead of maxing their damage.
Proc sets are still cancer and were the least affected on top of it.

i have never understood this. why do ppl equate managing resources with skill?
having to heavy attack to fire off a few more skills doesnt feel more skillful to me at all. honestly if i had it my way i wouldve reverted all sustain nerfs and doubled base regen in pve ONLY.
In Pve, the mechanics is where you show your skill, not by constantly staring at resource bars.
Yes you have to be careful in VMA and vet trials etc but now it just constantly seems like my toons are starved for resources and end up spamming heavies. That is the dullest combat system ever and it is quickly becoming excrutiatingly painful.

Exactly what i think, using a couple of heavy attack during the rotation doesn't really take skill, it just takes away from the fluidity of your rotation, while also dropping your damage, that's why i don't like the changes, and i refuse to build around heavy attacks, tried it, don't like it, too slow phased, a strong point of eso was supposed to be fast phased combat, where is it now?

Also, notice that most players who agree with these changes are from pvp, where i would actually agree that there was a sustain issue, but by changing these mechanics, they also affected pve, all because they won;t separate pvp from pve, because they think that they are always right, they think that having a unified game is of the utmost priority, even if it countiniously falls flat to it's face.

Really get a *** brain already zos. I personally think that these kind of choices damage the game, because it's just impossible to balance the game for both pvp and pve, something will always be op in one of the aspects, and it will almost always be op in pvp, because you can control bosses by making mechanics that players must respect, like one shots if you don't do something properly, but pvp is unconrtollable, because you are playing against thinking players.

Joy_Division · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Gameplay is boring and slowed down.

I disagree with people saying it's more challenging; (burst) damage is higher and my vMA scores are actually better.

All I do is heavy attack more and use different food/drinks.

Marabornwingrion · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Revert that s***

TARAFRAKA · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

JinMori wrote: »

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

People actually have to think about their sustain instead of maxing their damage.
Proc sets are still cancer and were the least affected on top of it.

i have never understood this. why do ppl equate managing resources with skill?
having to heavy attack to fire off a few more skills doesnt feel more skillful to me at all. honestly if i had it my way i wouldve reverted all sustain nerfs and doubled base regen in pve ONLY.
In Pve, the mechanics is where you show your skill, not by constantly staring at resource bars.
Yes you have to be careful in VMA and vet trials etc but now it just constantly seems like my toons are starved for resources and end up spamming heavies. That is the dullest combat system ever and it is quickly becoming excrutiatingly painful.

Exactly what i think, using a couple of heavy attack during the rotation doesn't really take skill, it just takes away from the fluidity of your rotation, while also dropping your damage, that's why i don't like the changes, and i refuse to build around heavy attacks, tried it, don't like it, too slow phased, a strong point of eso was supposed to be fast phased combat, where is it now?

Also, notice that most players who agree with these changes are from pvp, where i would actually agree that there was a sustain issue, but by changing these mechanics, they also affected pve, all because they won;t separate pvp from pve, because they think that they are always right, they think that having a unified game is of the utmost priority, even if it countiniously falls flat to it's face.

Really get a *** brain already zos. I personally think that these kind of choices damage the game, because it's just impossible to balance the game for both pvp and pve, something will always be op in one of the aspects, and it will almost always be op in pvp, because you can control bosses by making mechanics that players must respect, like one shots if you don't do something properly, but pvp is unconrtollable, because you are playing against thinking players.

i think if they would seperate pve and pvp we would be fine. npc dont conplain that they were burned too quickly or the builds that killed them were cheesy.

SoLooney · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Ill admit, sustaining in PvE was a bit too easy pre morrowind and with how much resources shards and orbs gave, it was extremely plentiful, you really had to try to run out. I knew PvP, sustaining was really easy as well and the big reason why there were huge sustain nerfs.

Completely removing the cp cost reduction tree, nerfing the regen tree from 25 to 15 perc, worm cult nerfed, light and medium armor passives nerfed, constitution nerfed, orbs and shards nerfed, repentence nerfed. There were more sustain nerfs but you get the idea.

Not fun, I mostly play mag sorc and mag dk, so heavy attacking with those characters is not a huge issue, I even achieved better dps after morrowind but the fact of the matter is, heavy attacking is boring and running out of resources so fast is frustrating.
Havent played my stam characters either, sustaining feels harder on those than mag

however, the resource nerfs only really affected me in vet trials and some vet dungeons where fights are long and youre gonna run out if youre not including heavy attacks in your rotations

TARAFRAKA · July 2017

I thought MW sustain changes would be bad and THEY ARE

Joy_Division wrote: »

Gameplay is boring and slowed down.

I disagree with people saying it's more challenging; (burst) damage is higher and my vMA scores are actually better.

All I do is heavy attack more and use different food/drinks.

EXACTLY. DPS and burst didnt change. We just run witchmothers brew and heavy attack now. If anything it takes less skill to pull high numbers now because rotations are so mind numbingly simple.
At least before you had to be good at your rotation or your dps was awful because it required alot more skills to be fired with light attack weaves.
Now every mag class is just dot dot dot heavy repeat. I cant speak for stam this patch.
Dont get me wrong I can sustain fine. Its HOW I have to sustain that is my issue. Holding down a button to fire off heavies makes it seems like I may as well not even put skills on my bar

Thats hyperbole of course but still.
I read your post pre MW regarding templars @Joy_Division and I absolutely agreed when the patch hit console. Templars are dull, boring and sustain changes suck.