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The Streamer/YouTuber Problem With ESO
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alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Patience is a huge deal in an MMO, and unfortunately many people lack it. They are looking for the most condensed information about the best builds and the fastest way to get them. If you do not take time to experience the game's mechanics and what other classes are capable of, a meta build is not going to save you.
Meta builds will always be there, but I firmly believe that they disproportionately restrain people's creativity in terms of builds. We want the best, and streamers and youtubers are rapidly supplying us with the best. But, the best build is definitely not always the most fun or even efficient one, depending on the player.
Stepping out of one's comfort zone is the best one can do to improve in any quasi-competitive game -- in that, finding a build that works for you is much more efficient than copy-pasting someone else's.
It was all fine until you said meta builds are not the most efficient.
Correction: Meta builds are indeed the most efficient in terms of their respective role. That is the whole point of them. And that is the reason that players should strive for those builds.
i know what your saying but this is no such thing as a meta build peeps get it wrong, i work in game development etc and meta just means Metagaming is any strategy, action or method used in a gameMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's amazing how if you find or help create a decent community/guild, 90 percent of these types of problems just go away.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub3 -
Sevalaricgirl✭✭✭✭✭Sevalaricgirl wrote: »Probably because the OP wants the players to view his streams instead of anyone else's. Just another way to get attention. OP, the streamers can do whatever they want. If people are asking you, answer or not but don't come down on other streamers because you want attention. If you didn't want attention, you wouldn't have linked one of your streams. 'Nuf said.
@Sevalaricgirl Umm... I'm not a streamer. I've never been 1, nor have I ever promoted myself as 1. Even my YouTube is filled with nothing but misc. videos from games I play. Whether it be the bs and bugs I experience here in ESO, to me getting rekt on GTA or Disgaea by the AI. Lol. Even my Overwatch videos are just little clips of WTF moments I experience. So what are you even talking about? Lol.
Really, please. Just because you don't stream in the sense that you are on twitch in a live stream, doesn't mean that you aren't putting vids up for everyone to see. Look at your post. You put a vid there. Again I say, nuf said.4 -
Dantaria✭✭✭✭✭
Or for entirely different reason. People are actually very aware about the skill ceiling.Pretty much everything you said.
Some of the YouTube/Streamers (like Alcast) have made a point of saying "this is the best DPS mathematically, but it means nothing without skill or your ability".
The thing is though whatever is flavour of the month people will see and use, because there are many who believe that gear/skills make the game and forget they need player skill.
I would choose meta min-maxed cookie-cutter build every time. Simply because it gives not the room but the whole house for mistake.
You know, I always founded it hilarious that people divide players into "casuals" and "meta-humpsters" and, really, hilariously fail to see that in many cases true casuals are exactly those who hump the meta.
Because if you can achieve 40k DPS on the skeleton, you can screw up however much you like. If you are a casual, not interested in speedruns, leaderboards, etc (like me) and only interested in completing content... in min-maxed meta build you have a guarantee.
With 40k min-maxed DPS you can afford being sloppy in real situation, you can afford making mistakes, you can even easily afford dying (within reason, of course)
You will always have your ~25k on boss, which is enough in 99.9% cases.
"Screw you, I'm proud casual with my hybrid build". Well. Good luck with that in vet content. Good luck with constant pressure, with constant knowledge that your numbers are low to begin with so you must perform perfectly.
Me? I would hump the meta whole day every day. 2 hours with target skeleton for practicing rotation... and you're free until next major update
Hell, you can go in vet trial while being completely and utterly wasted and still pull decent numbers Yes, I've done that Would you want to go in vAA with your hybrid build after drinking half of the bottle of vodka, hmmm? English isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.4 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Doesn't really seem like your issue is with content providers. Since they do post solid setups that do work. Seems like you have issue with people who are trying to learn the game and going to other people more knowledgeable than them for information.
So where are they supposed to glean bit of all the vast information that is contained in the game? The tutorial? Calm down man. People are trying to learn and have fun, while others are trying to help them. Meanwhile you are just going to make a thread bitching about them all because you are so hipster and have already done things or do them different. Bro. Nobody cares about your ego.7 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sevalaricgirl wrote: »Sevalaricgirl wrote: »Probably because the OP wants the players to view his streams instead of anyone else's. Just another way to get attention. OP, the streamers can do whatever they want. If people are asking you, answer or not but don't come down on other streamers because you want attention. If you didn't want attention, you wouldn't have linked one of your streams. 'Nuf said.
@Sevalaricgirl Umm... I'm not a streamer. I've never been 1, nor have I ever promoted myself as 1. Even my YouTube is filled with nothing but misc. videos from games I play. Whether it be the bs and bugs I experience here in ESO, to me getting rekt on GTA or Disgaea by the AI. Lol. Even my Overwatch videos are just little clips of WTF moments I experience. So what are you even talking about? Lol.
Really, please. Just because you don't stream in the sense that you are on twitch in a live stream, doesn't mean that you aren't putting vids up for everyone to see. Look at your post. You put a vid there. Again I say, nuf said.
Lmaooooo! Oh, I see. I see what type of person I'm dealing with. Lololol. Right, right. Uh huh. Suuuure. Sure you're right. Edited by Ch4mpTW on July 7, 2017 1:41PM0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'm thinking it's way more the game designer. The %90 of the game can be solo in whatever gear you pick up. All normal content can be fairly easily breezed through. Then you get to veteran or endgame content and the world is turned upside down.
Now you need 5 piece sets, legendary gear and loads of e-peen skill to be half as effective you were at level 10
Streamers? Come on man. I don't watch many, but I've not seen any really try to steer you wrong.
The problem is all this gear and CP isn't really helping make us better players, it's just something to do.
Then when you think you're good, you test it out on a target skeleton. And you find out how bad you really are.
No. Streamers aren't the problem. "Pro" gamers sort through the myriad of weapons, armors, class and skills to help a player become better.....which is far more than the game does IMHO.
Honestly, most any gamer that spends time here would likely draw the same conclusion. Now they're streamlined and documented.
ps, not watching your crappy video.
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Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People are lemmings, bruh. And lazy. Dear god the amount of lazy going on is depressing. No thought put into what they're doing. Taking the quick and easy and not understanding why or how it works and not caring worst of all. As far as I'm concerned these lemmings get what they deserve.5 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People are lemmings, bruh. And lazy. Dear god the amount of lazy going on is depressing. No thought put into what they're doing. Taking the quick and easy and not understanding why or how it works and not caring worst of all. As far as I'm concerned these lemmings get what they deserve.
@Kodrac You never disappoint with the quality of your posts, bruh. Tell it like it is, comrade. Tell it like it is. +1 to you.0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@JackDaniell not included
His builds are interesting and different.
Too many build videos are the same generic stuff.1 -
Dasovaruilos✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand what Streamers have to do with it. This is a people problem.
There will always be people that just want the "bestest, fastest way to get the best, biggest result".
Just go to the "new" tab on ESO Reddit... Half the posts are always asking for the shortest way to get all the results without a lot of effort.
I actually think most streamers do a very, very good job of making it clear that the gear will not make or break a build/player. Look at @Gilliamtherogue latest videos. 1k DPS difference at most using several different sets.
It is not their fault people are lazy and want instant gratification. Blame evolution...
For most players, using an Infused armor piece over Divines will make 0 difference. Yet, they will still spend 10 hours grinding for Divines instead of 2 hours perfecting the rotation or studying the class.
Don't take it the wrong way, but this is a problem with a lot of your threads: you do see a problem that exists, but then you end up choosing a completely wrong thing, and sometimes small and irrelevant thing, to try and use as explanation for that problem.
I remember a BUNCH of topics from you where the main issue is always people. People will be people always. No YouTuber will manage to change most of society to stop being lazy and actually put in the hard work to get the best results. Specially with something as unimportant as gaming.8 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand what Streamers have to do with it. This is a people problem.
There will always be people that just want the "bestest, fastest way to get the best, biggest result".
Just go to the "new" tab on ESO Reddit... Half the posts are always asking for the shortest way to get all the results without a lot of effort.
I actually think most streamers do a very, very good job of making it clear that the gear will not make or break a build/player. Look at @Gilliamtherogue latest videos. 1k DPS difference at most using several different sets.
It is not their fault people are lazy and want instant gratification. Blame evolution...
For most players, using an Infused armor piece over Divines will make 0 difference. Yet, they will still spend 10 hours grinding for Divines instead of 2 hours perfecting the rotation or studying the class.
Don't take it the wrong way, but this is a problem with a lot of your threads: you do see a problem that exists, but then you end up choosing a completely wrong thing, and sometimes small and irrelevant thing, to try and use as explanation for that problem.
I remember a BUNCH of topics from you where the main issue is always people. People will be people always. No YouTuber will manage to change most of society to stop being lazy and actually put in the hard work to get the best results. Specially with something as unimportant as gaming.
@CalmFury I appreciate that post right there, comrade. A strong +1 is in order for you as well. You hit a lot of things on the head perfectly, and even provided some food for thought. Thanks for that, chief.0 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agreed OP. I was talking to a new player (he'd only been playing for three days) and he was wanting to know where this "skyreach" was so he could grind levels, as well as wanting to get as much cash as possible thru selling mats.
New players just need to take it slow, enjoy the story content and find out what playstyle fits them best. Instantly going on YouTube and being told what and where you should grinding for things (that new players don't even know why they need) completely kills the beginning experience.Edited by Stovahkiin on July 7, 2017 2:09PMBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!4 -
Stovahkiin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »All i got from this is that you're unhappy that you aren't unique anymore because people use pets????
I don't know how this post got so many agrees, it completely missed OP's pointBeware the battle cattle, but don't *fear* the battle cattle!3 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stovahkiin wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »All i got from this is that you're unhappy that you aren't unique anymore because people use pets????
I don't know how this post got so many agrees, it completely missed OP's point
It's a hipster thing.2 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You know what is sort of strange about this thread now that I think about it. It is a thread about not listening to people on the internet telling you what to do or how to play. But half the post are exactly that. Yeah don't listen to those guys they are doing it wrong. Here is how you should do it, just like me!
It is a fight over which random people on the internet I should listen to! Im being torn apart!3 -
RavenRoxie✭✭✭✭So, let me get this straight. The OP is whining because people are using builds created by streamers/youtube's and are learning the game based on the tutorials/suggestions/etc etc of the streamer/youtube's. And, he is also whining about new players seeking help through himself and other seasoned players in the game.
Where the hell are new players supposed to turn for help then?
I'm sorry, but it is seriously too early for the level of sheer ignorance, that is this thread.
Get Over Yourself.Phantogram DC | Wood Elf | Magicka Nightblade/ | DPS | 856cp
False Paradox | AD | Wood Elf | Non Combative Nightblade | Crafter | 856cp
@RoxieParadoxx | Twitch | Twitter10 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stovahkiin wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »All i got from this is that you're unhappy that you aren't unique anymore because people use pets????
I don't know how this post got so many agrees, it completely missed OP's point
@Stovahkiin I don't know either, bruh.
And you know what the crazy thing is? People think that the video I linked of my PetSorc is of me showing off, or something of the like. When in fact the video is of me getting insta-gibbed in Maelstrom Arena due to a bug (that has since been fixed, I think) that used to exist with the enemy NPC's of Stage 7. LMAO! If you read through some of the replies here, people are seriously acting like I posted a video of me styling or something of the sort. When in fact, it was a video created to show a bug that had plagued VMA for a very long time to the devs. Edited by Ch4mpTW on July 7, 2017 2:24PM2 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RavenRoxie wrote: »So, let me get this straight. The OP is whining because people are using builds created by streamers/youtube's and are learning the game based on the tutorials/suggestions/etc etc of the streamer/youtube's. And, he is also whining about new players seeking help through himself and other seasoned players in the game.
Where the hell are new players supposed to turn for help then?
I'm sorry, but it is seriously too early for the level of sheer ignorance, that is this thread.
Get Over Yourself.- The point is exactly that they are NOT learning the game.
- They are not looking for help, they are wanting it all done pronto.
- You really shouldn't talk about ignorance when you can't comprehend what you've just read.
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Scyantific✭✭✭✭✭
✭No no let the potatoes keep copy-pasting builds man. Makes it easier for anyone with half a brain to make builds designed to counter those players when you know they're all running the same setup.5 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RavenRoxie wrote: »So, let me get this straight. The OP is whining because people are using builds created by streamers/youtube's and are learning the game based on the tutorials/suggestions/etc etc of the streamer/youtube's. And, he is also whining about new players seeking help through himself and other seasoned players in the game.
Where the hell are new players supposed to turn for help then?
I'm sorry, but it is seriously too early for the level of sheer ignorance, that is this thread.
Get Over Yourself.- The point is exactly that they are NOT learning the game.
- They are not looking for help, they are wanting it all done pronto.
- You really shouldn't talk about ignorance when you can't comprehend what you've just read.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »A lot of the posts here have a very holier-than-thou feel to them. Bottom line is that I'd rather have a new player who is "playing the meta" because they learned by watching Alcast or Deltia over somebody just fiddling around with it on their own spamming light and heavy attacks.
I'm still relatively new myself, but I came from a competitive raiding guild in another MMO, so I know that to some extent these resources are valuable and necessary, but to play around with them until I find something that compromises between the perfect, optimal rotation and what I'm actually able to do. However, most new players for this game are nothing like that. Many do not even have MMO backgrounds and do not understand the importance of even using abilities consistently. In typical MMO fashion, the game does a poor job of emphasizing what is important to be successful for new players. At least the meta guides can act as a starting point, with the hopes that new players will, over time, develop their own playstyle around them.
TL; DR people need to get off their high horses, better to have a new player / casual with a build they learned from youtube doing 10k than a new player with 0 information doing 2k because let's be real, casual MMO players are not the type to do their own in-depth analysis of these sorts of things. We shouldn't crucify them for that, or try to exclude them from the game.
I agree 100%. I would love to see the bow light attack spammers, that show up in every other group finder group, swap to deltia or alcast builds.V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Kodrac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stovahkiin wrote: »OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »All i got from this is that you're unhappy that you aren't unique anymore because people use pets????
I don't know how this post got so many agrees, it completely missed OP's point
@Stovahkiin I don't know either, bruh.
And you know what the crazy thing is? People think that the video I linked of my PetSorc is of me showing off, or something of the like. When in fact the video is of me getting insta-gibbed in Maelstrom Arena due to a bug (that has since been fixed, I think) that used to exist with the enemy NPC's of Stage 7. LMAO! If you read through some of the replies here, people are seriously acting like I posted a video of me styling or something of the sort. When in fact, it was a video created to show a bug that had plagued VMA for a very long time to the devs.
But you posted a video so that makes you a jealous streamer. They gotta conform to their narrative in order to make their rant [approve] and [awesome] worthy.1 -
Basically all builds have all gear interchangable and all skills are flex. The sooner people realize that the better. Build videos are essentially a lie.
This is true. I'm a youtuber myself that does build videos and I've gotten to the point where I let my viewers know that nothing is set in stone and they can do whatever they like with my builds.1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't get why people watch others playing video games.
To learn? Shouldn't learning be part of the adventure in video games?
As for the streamers themselves, gj on your skill and gj if you are making decent money out of it. However, you've made mmorpgs ez with all the guides on builds, xping, farming, discovering, solving puzzles and guides on dungeons.2 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why do you think it's the youtubers/streamers fault for breeding 'zombie' players as you put it?
Those players are themselves at fault. They went to look up those videos/streams, and they chose to mindlessly copy those builds on their own characters. Whose fault is it for misinforming themselves? None but their own.
It's very possible to look over a lot of different video material and builds, gather information and draw your own conclusions from it.1 -
Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »I don't get why people watch others playing video games.
To learn? Shouldn't learning be part of the adventure in video games?
As for the streamers themselves, gj on your skill and gj if you are making decent money out of it. However, you've made mmorpgs ez with all the guides on builds, xping, farming, discovering, solving puzzles and guides on dungeons.
I can't speak for everyone, but the streamers/YouTubers that I watched were more for comedy and or hearing them say things that I feel other people are afraid to say.
@FENGRUSH is a perfect example of this. I watch his videos and streams (mainly just YouTube videos), because he talks that real talk. He says things exactly how they need to be said, and doesn't give a damn if it comes off as too hardcore and insensitive to those who listen. Therefore the fact that the dude had balls alone makes him a favorite online personality for me. And when he starts sticking it to ZOS, and gets the ranting? I love it. That stuff will have me rolling laughing for sometimes 10mins. straight. But again, that's just me personally. I don't watch his content for the builds and all that, even though he is The StamSorc. N'ah. I watch him, because homie is the homie. I show his videos to folks who don't even play ESO, and they've ended up subscribing to his channel because they like the brutal honesty that he has and rugged personality. 1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dude! I had to laugh! "Netch vs Necropotence" question I get that all the time now too!1
