When will we see UI Mods with XB1?

BmcD73 · July 2017

This topic hasn't been brought up in a while and I thought I would add my 2 coppers worth. Now that we have a framework for delivering mods on the XB1 by Bethesda for Fallout and Skyrim, when can we expect to see them on the XB1 for ESO? I ask for a number of reasons that I will list below.

Mods significantly extend the playability of any game that utilizes them which = more $$. Skyrim and/or WoW are two of the biggest examples. Look at all of the amazing things people have done with Skyrim. I recently re-installed it and have been considering re-buying the SE version JUST so I can use the latest mods with it on the console AND PC. I realize a single player game is a different animal than an MMO which is why I included WoW. I would contend that the mods have extended the life of that game significantly. I STILL play that game often because I know if something doesn't work like I like, I can find a mod for it.
Based on item #1 above, this means people will be playing longer and longer durations which = more $$. For me, I love tweaking the interfaces to games. It helps keep them fresh and every now and again, I will delete all my mods and search for new ones to keep things "new".
It creates a deeper connection between the game, the devs, and your consumers which ultimately = more $$. The deeper and more connected your players are the better and more engaged they become. This keeps gamers engaged.
It creates additional revenue streams which = more $$. I game on my PC and on the XB1. I have recently started playing more on the console because my son is getting older and it is easier for us to multiplay on the XB1. I mentioned in point 1 that I have been considering buying Skyrim AGAIN just for the mod support. I have even been tinkering with the idea of buying it on the XB1 solely because of the mod support. I bought ESO Gold Ed. on XB1 over xmas and played it a little. There is so much missing because of mod support that I have a hard time playing it on the XB1. I currently play it on the PC because of the mod support. I would most likely play it and pay for ESO plus on the XB1 if it too had support for mods.

I realize that this will consume dev time and on the surface seems like a time/money sink. This investment has the potential to generate new revenues that are currently not available to you. I respectfully request this feature be seriously considered and put on the schedule. Not only would this make your customers happy but it will ultimately increase your revenues.

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

Probably never. There have been a few addons for PC that have caused harm to the game and even the system they were installed on. Since ZOS don't have control over these addons, the user is putting themself at risk running them. If a player-made addon for console bricked the system, Microsoft and Sony would not like that all and prevent it from happening in future. Additionally, Sony has this about wanting to charge people for mods and have them go through the PSN store to stop damage to their system

Aliyavana · July 2017

Switch to the better platform

lagrue · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Probably never. There have been a few addons for PC that have caused harm to the game and even the system they were installed on. Since ZOS don't have control over these addons, the user is putting themself at risk running them. If a player-made addon for console bricked the system, Microsoft and Sony would not like that all and prevent it from happening in future. Additionally, Sony has this about wanting to charge people for mods and have them go through the PSN store to stop damage to their system

I can say from personal experience that you can already make console damaging mods using purely just the CK alone. I don't know which piece I blew - but one of my FO4 mods broke my original PS4, made something inside it literally burn to the point of smoke coming out of it (I assume the GPU). It involves in-game explosives and cranking the radiuses way higher than they should ever be + stacking multiple explosions.

The thing Sony and MS are more worried about is people cracking their OS. They could give a damn less if your system is bricked - what they want to avoid is another "PSN Outrage of 2011" scenario. It's also part of why Sony took away the 'Other OS' option back on PS3. All they care about is THEIR personal security. MS actually has lesser security on mods than Sony does as well, because they've never faced an outrage/attack like PSN did.

Bethesda doesn't monitor the mods for FO4 or Skyrim either. No reason ZOS would have to. By nature the only mods blocked on both consoles are the ones that use scripts - because both companies are worried they could be malicious or bypass gain entry to the inner workings of their OS'

Royaji · July 2017

Never.

mrdiamond666 · July 2017

Hopefully NEVER.

BmcD73 · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Probably never. There have been a few addons for PC that have caused harm to the game and even the system they were installed on. Since ZOS don't have control over these addons, the user is putting themself at risk running them. If a player-made addon for console bricked the system, Microsoft and Sony would not like that all and prevent it from happening in future. Additionally, Sony has this about wanting to charge people for mods and have them go through the PSN store to stop damage to their system

They exist already for Fallout 4 and for Skyrim. Both Bethsoft games. Why allow mods on those games but not ESO?

BmcD73 · July 2017

mrdiamond666 wrote: »

Hopefully NEVER.

Why? Because more features and expanding your player base is bad?

Here is a perfect example. Searching the guild stores on the console is horrid. It is so horrible that I have only done it once. The same is true for the PC. But on the PC I use advanced filters and awesomeguildstore. The default UI is completely useless. Why on earth would you prefer to slog through the default interface when you can get one that is infinitely more helpful?

I will never understand the "I want fewer features" folks out there

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

BmcD73 wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Probably never. There have been a few addons for PC that have caused harm to the game and even the system they were installed on. Since ZOS don't have control over these addons, the user is putting themself at risk running them. If a player-made addon for console bricked the system, Microsoft and Sony would not like that all and prevent it from happening in future. Additionally, Sony has this about wanting to charge people for mods and have them go through the PSN store to stop damage to their system

They exist already for Fallout 4 and for Skyrim. Both Bethsoft games. Why allow mods on those games but not ESO?

The effort that Bethesda went through to even get that to happen was amazing. Sony nearly didn't let it happen on their end as well. Also, Bethesda =/= ZOS. ESO is not a Bethesda-developed game.

mesmerizedish · July 2017

It would be great if addons could be brought to consoles, but I don't expect it will ever happen.

BmcD73 · July 2017

mesmerizedish wrote: »

It would be great if addons could be brought to consoles, but I don't expect it will ever happen.

Already exists. Fallout 4 and Skyrim both support mods on XB1. I don't know if there are other games and I don't own a PS4 so I can't speak to that. But it's genius on the XB1. Playing ESO on the PC and moving to XB1 is painful. There are times I really love playing on the console but the default UI makes so many activities frustrating that I just don't really play it that much at all.

mesmerizedish · July 2017

BmcD73 wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

It would be great if addons could be brought to consoles, but I don't expect it will ever happen.

Already exists. Fallout 4 and Skyrim both support mods on XB1. I don't know if there are other games and I don't own a PS4 so I can't speak to that. But it's genius on the XB1. Playing ESO on the PC and moving to XB1 is painful. There are times I really love playing on the console but the default UI makes so many activities frustrating that I just don't really play it that much at all.

Several of my Skyrim/FO4 mods are already on XB1, but neither of those games is ESO, so nothing "already exists."

eso_lags · July 2017

I posted a thread like this a week or so ago, people were saying xbox would have to approve it since its an online game and fallout/skyrim arent.. And also that if theres no profit in it for zos they wont do it, true. I was curious as to if someone COULD do it if they knew how, or if xbox or zos would block them...

Id rather they fix they unplayable lag in cyrodil on xbox before they did another thing in this game though.

Enodoc · July 2017

ZOS would have to spend development time on a distribution and vetting system, which is unlikely to be something that is high on the priority list.

Bonzodog01 · July 2017

On top off that has been said, ZOS are already having performance problems with ESO as it is on console without adding stuff on top of that.

So no, any mods would almost certainly negatively impact performance even further on console, and thats the last thing we need.

Balsagna · July 2017

aliyavana wrote: »

Switch to the better platform

Yeah but then I will see bots everywhere.

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

Balsagna wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Switch to the better platform

Yeah but then I will see bots everywhere.

They are already on console so what's the difference

Balsagna · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Balsagna wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Switch to the better platform

Yeah but then I will see bots everywhere.

They are already on console so what's the difference

I keep seeing this, but I have yet to see a group of sorcs doing the same rotation of skills for hours on end at a particular spawn point.

I mean I have been playing on and off on console since 2014, and can honestly say I don't recall ever seeing anything that even closely resembles the daily videos of bots here from the PC side. So, while it may exist on console, it's a rarity and not the daily norm.

lagrue · July 2017

Balsagna wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Balsagna wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Switch to the better platform

Yeah but then I will see bots everywhere.

They are already on console so what's the difference

I keep seeing this, but I have yet to see a group of sorcs doing the same rotation of skills for hours on end at a particular spawn point.

I mean I have been playing on and off on console since 2014, and can honestly say I don't recall ever seeing anything that even closely resembles the daily videos of bots here from the PC side. So, while it may exist on console, it's a rarity and not the daily norm.

No matter what anybody matter tries to fool you into believing, we don't have botters on console. We have people who tape down their attack buttons and walk away. The TOS may consider them as botters because it's roughly the same effect - but they aren't by any true definition bots. PC bots are far more intelligent than rubberbanders because they actually use a sort of pre-programmed intelligence. PC bots are made with Key/Mouse macros, something nobody on console can currently pull off. The best " console hackers" in the world are still struggling to crack the save files of current gen consoles - let alone create and manipulate the software into efficiently botting.

MurderMostFoul · July 2017

One of the benefits to consoles is that you get a more level playing field. Spec, UIs, and peripherals are largely the same across the board. There is no compulsion to get add-ons and the like to gain an edge. This make the whole experience more plug-n-play and accessible. Personally, I hope add-ons never come to consoles.

Royaji · July 2017

BmcD73 wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

It would be great if addons could be brought to consoles, but I don't expect it will ever happen.

Already exists. Fallout 4 and Skyrim both support mods on XB1. I don't know if there are other games and I don't own a PS4 so I can't speak to that. But it's genius on the XB1. Playing ESO on the PC and moving to XB1 is painful. There are times I really love playing on the console but the default UI makes so many activities frustrating that I just don't really play it that much at all.

Mods on xBox are created with a special software provided by Bethesda. It is approved by Microsoft and only allows to use assets already available in the game. ESO add-ons are made without such software and always include code created by the author. Since xBox is a closed platfrom Microsot will never allow anyone to run their code on it without passing a certification. And they are not going to dedicate time and money to certificating player made add-ons.

So my answer stays. You are not getting add-ons on console. Never.

Vercingetorix · July 2017

You will never see mods on consoles, especially PS4.
/close thread

BmcD73 · July 2017

Vercingetorix wrote: »

You will never see mods on consoles, especially PS4.
/close thread

One small problem, we ALREADY HAVE mods on consoles as I mentioned in the original post. Skyrim and Fallout 4 have mods on XB1 right now.
/open thread

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

One of the benefits to consoles is that you get a more level playing field. Spec, UIs, and peripherals are largely the same across the board. There is no compulsion to get add-ons and the like to gain an edge. This make the whole experience more plug-n-play and accessible. Personally, I hope add-ons never come to consoles.

How does a mod that makes a completely useless guild store interface into a totally useful interface ruin anything or give anyone a "competitive advantage"? I guarantee that the money changing hands and items sold and success in the guild stores on the PC DESTROYS any numbers on the console by an order of magnitude...solely because of the 2 mods I listed above. This is a HUGE value to both the devs and the players. Why should console users be punished because they are on consoles?

Enodoc wrote: »

ZOS would have to spend development time on a distribution and vetting system, which is unlikely to be something that is high on the priority list.

It would be costly for sure. But you need to ask yourself why would Bethesda put so much time and energy into creating a mod system for Fallout 4 and Skyrim for the console if there wasn't some payout? It's because the potential revenues outweighed the costs. It keeps players engaged for MUCH longer periods of time. Those players in turn get their friends to play which in turn get their friends to play. The bigger they can make the footprint of a given game the better and a healthy modding community definitely expands the footprint and longevity of a game.

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Several of my Skyrim/FO4 mods are already on XB1, but neither of those games is ESO, so nothing "already exists."

You generically said "It would be great if addons could be brought to consoles, but I don't expect it will ever happen" hence my response "Already exists". There are currently games on XB1 that support user created mods.

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

On top off that has been said, ZOS are already having performance problems with ESO as it is on console without adding stuff on top of that.
So no, any mods would almost certainly negatively impact performance even further on console, and thats the last thing we need.

This is a tough one because performance could be client side generated (processing all my map markers) which is my problem or server side generated (scanning prices on the guild stores) which is a ZOS problem. Either way this is up to ZOS to control what can and cannot be done through their API. It would be one thing if it technically wasn't possible but we know it is. There are plenty of MMOs out there that use mods successfully.

Royaji wrote: »

Mods on xBox are created with a special software provided by Bethesda. It is approved by Microsoft and only allows to use assets already available in the game. ESO add-ons are made without such software and always include code created by the author. Since xBox is a closed platfrom Microsot will never allow anyone to run their code on it without passing a certification. And they are not going to dedicate time and money to certificating player made add-ons.

So my answer stays. You are not getting add-ons on console. Never.

I don't think this is true. First none of the consoles are "closed systems" so to speak. They used to be years ago before the internet and patching and DLC. But now consoles are much closer to PCs than ever before. I have been reading up on what it takes to create a mod for fallout on the XB1. I don't think Microsoft is involved at all. There is a specific creator kit made by Bethesda that is required to make the mods. But there isn't a certification process at all...which is very un-Microsoft-ish. The toolkit defines the boundaries and something similar would have to be created for ESO. This is a project in itself but Bethesda has done this specifically to breathe new life into those games and dramatically increase their longevity on the console. I don't see why the same principles wouldn't hold true for ESO.

Waffennacht · July 2017

It's not a question of can it be done, but will it, and I very much doubt it.

Took em years just to give us a weird buff tracker

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

Not even worth continuing to discuss this. People have given you reasonable reasons why it can't happen or won't happen and your argument is literally "But FO4/Skyrim have mods".

BmcD73 · July 2017

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Not even worth continuing to discuss this. People have given you reasonable reasons why it can't happen or won't happen and your argument is literally "But FO4/Skyrim have mods".

You are right, because your argument is literally "it just won't happen because I said so".

I love these types of responses. Here is an idea...as a community, let's not ask for ANYTHING because the game doesn't need ANYTHING because it is totally perfect exactly the way it is! AmIright???!??

Bethesda said itself the reason for mod support on the console is because of the increased revenues. That is my argument. Increased revenues and expanded player base is good for everyone. I mentioned FO4/Skyrim because of all the people saying that there will never, ever, ever, ever, no way, no possibility, ever be mods on the consoles. Bethesda developed the creator kit specifically for FO4 and Skyrim on the console.

AzraelKrieg · July 2017

BmcD73 wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Not even worth continuing to discuss this. People have given you reasonable reasons why it can't happen or won't happen and your argument is literally "But FO4/Skyrim have mods".

You are right, because your argument is literally "it just won't happen because I said so".

I love these types of responses. Here is an idea...as a community, let's not ask for ANYTHING because the game doesn't need ANYTHING because it is totally perfect exactly the way it is! AmIright???!??

Bethesda said itself the reason for mod support on the console is because of the increased revenues. That is my argument. Increased revenues and expanded player base is good for everyone. I mentioned FO4/Skyrim because of all the people saying that there will never, ever, ever, ever, no way, no possibility, ever be mods on the consoles. Bethesda developed the creator kit specifically for FO4 and Skyrim on the console.

And that's Bethesda. Bethesda did not make Elder Scrolls Online. Zenimax Online Studios did. They are two different studios. Bethesda is allowing mods for their single player games through XB1 and PS4 because they look at the creators as a potential source of revenue. Addons for ESO are not the same thing. Zenimax won't open up the console API for people to create addons because there is the risk of it corrupting Microsoft's and Sony's platforms. Plus if they did, Sony and Microsoft would want to charge for them through their store front. It's not a case "it won't happen because I said so". It's a case of "ZOS don't want to do it, Sony and MS don't want to do it, so it won't be done". Again, just because there are MODS for Fallout 4 and Skyrim on consoles because Bethesda made a deal with the console makers doesn't mean that ADDONS will be added. As I have stated earlier in the thread, there is an inherent risk with user made addons on PC. There have been a few that have corrupted user settings, hell, some have even stolen items from players. Do you honestly think that ZOS, Sony and Microsoft want to go through a vetting process for every addon that is made for consoles to ensure that no harm comes to the game, the platform and the platform's software? Because I bloody well doubt it.