5 Changes to help mDK open world PvP

DRXHarbinger · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Magdk is awesome in pvp. L2DK seriously. What ultimate are you referring to as the highest cost? Flame leap is cheap and actually powerful and 99% of mag players use destro ult anyway. Magdk 1v1 is very very hard to kill. I'd rather fight a good sorc any day over a dk.

I know that reading is hard, but the point of this post is to make mDK less reliant on block.

Does any of your desires there indicate reliance on block? Everyone has to block. Hell magdk even has the best Stam return and block passives for a mag class. Unsure where you are coming from. My guess is you haven't evolved from the black rose sword and board former meta?

Saint_Bud · July 2017

Stonefist redisigne in a gabcloser or invasion magicka morph ( chaines are just terrible).
Wings refleckt 8 projeclteils and also crushing ( it was nearly 3 years no problem).
Old inferno.
200 Ulty coast of banner ( its nearly not used and also in pve destro is in many fights better).
Passive for ulty reg in the ardent flame tree.

sly007 · July 2017

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

Crom_CCCXVI · July 2017

I have been playing a Magik DK Utility Tank, a lightning staff heavy attack group build, and fire staff heavy attack solo burst (no longer feasible since the 30% debuff on the fire attack heavy staff last update)- since launch. You know, back when there were only 2 or 3 Mag DK's in Cyrodil, before it got trendy first time, and before it got trendy most recently-
so when people start proposing changes to what I consider the most versatile and fun to play class as it, it irks me.

1) Not everyone is a Fire build. We have Molten Armaments, a number of ways to set people off balance, which means there are lightning builds. So no, we don't want to turn everything to Fire Damage.

2) Stone Giant is our ranged stun. I use it to keep people away from me, again your assuming we are all running the same build. I use it from the tops of keeps, I use it to set up an unblocked dragon leap as someone else said.

3) Cinder Storm I definitely want ranged. I use it to slow down incoming zergs, I use it in the breach of a keep, I use it in battlegrounds, I don't always want everything at my feet. I don't consider it an offensive weapon.

Most of your changes seem to think that we are all wearing heavy armor and running fire damage builds, which means your missing on why MagDK is my favorite class, because it is the most versatile. If you like I have several videos of how effective a light armor lightning staff DK build can be in group PvP. It's annoying enough we lost the heavy attack fire staff build last patch (which was essentially our only burst damage build)... but now you want to pigeon hole us all into what burning spellweave, and whatever else the latest youtube video is wearing?

Lexxypwns · July 2017

Sharee wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Stone Giant - Stone Fist morph
Range reduced from 28m to 5m;
If enemy is stunned, continues to deal 100% more damage and sets enemy off balance;
Damage type changed to Fire.

Reasoning
The range on Stone Giant is completely unnecessary and makes it more of a "troll" ability than a useful combat ability.

You haven't see a mDK "one-shot" people with heavy attack+stone giant -> dragon leap, i take it. I strongly disagree with your reasoning there. It's my main attack combo in PvP, and the burst is deadly.

Heavy att mDKs builds hit the hardest of any class sure, but they are absolutely squishy/unsustainable and cant last outside of a zerg tbh

You wouldn't use a screwdriver to beat in a nail. Use the correct tool for the correct situation. My mDK is mainly used in heavy sieges, mainly on the defense side.

That being said, the build isn't completely hopeless even when alone. It depends on who you are facing.

You absolutely cannot beat a properly geared player of equal skill with an mDK heavy attack build. Idk how you try to spin it, you're killing players who you are better than and provide very little threat to anyone who is better than you. Most other classes have the opportunity to create burst and that can punish playe

Kilandros wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Magdk is awesome in pvp. L2DK seriously. What ultimate are you referring to as the highest cost? Flame leap is cheap and actually powerful and 99% of mag players use destro ult anyway. Magdk 1v1 is very very hard to kill. I'd rather fight a good sorc any day over a dk.

I know that reading is hard, but the point of this post is to make mDK less reliant on block.

But you didn't suggest anything that doesn't also buff permablock DKs. You can't make suggestions "so DKs don't need to permablock" then list a bunch of stuff that would buff "permablock" DKs and still not drastically increase the viability of non-block DKs

Kilandros · July 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Stone Giant - Stone Fist morph
Range reduced from 28m to 5m;
If enemy is stunned, continues to deal 100% more damage and sets enemy off balance;
Damage type changed to Fire.

Reasoning
The range on Stone Giant is completely unnecessary and makes it more of a "troll" ability than a useful combat ability.

You haven't see a mDK "one-shot" people with heavy attack+stone giant -> dragon leap, i take it. I strongly disagree with your reasoning there. It's my main attack combo in PvP, and the burst is deadly.

Heavy att mDKs builds hit the hardest of any class sure, but they are absolutely squishy/unsustainable and cant last outside of a zerg tbh

You wouldn't use a screwdriver to beat in a nail. Use the correct tool for the correct situation. My mDK is mainly used in heavy sieges, mainly on the defense side.

That being said, the build isn't completely hopeless even when alone. It depends on who you are facing.

You absolutely cannot beat a properly geared player of equal skill with an mDK heavy attack build. Idk how you try to spin it, you're killing players who you are better than and provide very little threat to anyone who is better than you. Most other classes have the opportunity to create burst and that can punish playe

Kilandros wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Magdk is awesome in pvp. L2DK seriously. What ultimate are you referring to as the highest cost? Flame leap is cheap and actually powerful and 99% of mag players use destro ult anyway. Magdk 1v1 is very very hard to kill. I'd rather fight a good sorc any day over a dk.

I know that reading is hard, but the point of this post is to make mDK less reliant on block.

But you didn't suggest anything that doesn't also buff permablock DKs. You can't make suggestions "so DKs don't need to permablock" then list a bunch of stuff that would buff "permablock" DKs and still not drastically increase the viability of non-block DKs

Since it's pretty clear ZOS is heading down the road of eventually removing the sole non-CP campaign, I just assumed that that in itself would be another pretty big nerf to permablock builds.

But just to follow your reasoning a little more--it's hard to imagine a single mDK buff that wouldn't also buff block builds. So do we not buff anything because it could also buff block? The goal is to REDUCE mDK's reliance on block. I've made that quite clear I think. If you have a better way of buffing non-block builds then please share.

murdomac101 · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Minus an execute I disagree that mDK struggles in open world.

lol nice one
They are the least mobile with the highest ability/ultimate costs than any class/playstyle in the game. They are designed to "stand their ground" but they forgot to mention "for only 10 seconds then die" lul. mDKs were amazing back then when we could generate ultimate fast enough to cast and was truly a "stand your ground" design but now (and since 1.6) its the least used play-style in pvp because you can truly stand your ground with all the poisons, procs, block nerfs, and ability cost nerfs that they added over the years.

imo, DKs need faster ultimate regen along with all, if not some, of the changes the OP is presenting

I main a DK and I think they are plenty strong. Fight to draws against mag Sorc since they can't kill me and I struggle to kill them but otherwise I'd say DK has no issues. DK doesn't need mobility, it's strength is locking people down and if they want to stay at range use flappers to reflect projectiles. That said, if you want to spur a "buff DK" movement, I won't complain about being made OP. You can wear 5 light with S&B and basically stand in the face of a 20 man Zerg, why do you need mobility?

Sharee wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Stone Giant - Stone Fist morph
Range reduced from 28m to 5m;
If enemy is stunned, continues to deal 100% more damage and sets enemy off balance;
Damage type changed to Fire.

Reasoning
The range on Stone Giant is completely unnecessary and makes it more of a "troll" ability than a useful combat ability.

You haven't see a mDK "one-shot" people with heavy attack+stone giant -> dragon leap, i take it. I strongly disagree with your reasoning there. It's my main attack combo in PvP, and the burst is deadly.

So what sets are worth checking out? Think my old mdk (who I haven't touched since start of homestead) is stil sitting in a set of heavy gold seducers and silk of the suns.

Zvorgin · July 2017

murdomac101 wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Minus an execute I disagree that mDK struggles in open world.

lol nice one
They are the least mobile with the highest ability/ultimate costs than any class/playstyle in the game. They are designed to "stand their ground" but they forgot to mention "for only 10 seconds then die" lul. mDKs were amazing back then when we could generate ultimate fast enough to cast and was truly a "stand your ground" design but now (and since 1.6) its the least used play-style in pvp because you can truly stand your ground with all the poisons, procs, block nerfs, and ability cost nerfs that they added over the years.

imo, DKs need faster ultimate regen along with all, if not some, of the changes the OP is presenting

I main a DK and I think they are plenty strong. Fight to draws against mag Sorc since they can't kill me and I struggle to kill them but otherwise I'd say DK has no issues. DK doesn't need mobility, it's strength is locking people down and if they want to stay at range use flappers to reflect projectiles. That said, if you want to spur a "buff DK" movement, I won't complain about being made OP. You can wear 5 light with S&B and basically stand in the face of a 20 man Zerg, why do you need mobility?

Zvorgin wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Minus an execute I disagree that mDK struggles in open world.

lol nice one
They are the least mobile with the highest ability/ultimate costs than any class/playstyle in the game. They are designed to "stand their ground" but they forgot to mention "for only 10 seconds then die" lul. mDKs were amazing back then when we could generate ultimate fast enough to cast and was truly a "stand your ground" design but now (and since 1.6) its the least used play-style in pvp because you can truly stand your ground with all the poisons, procs, block nerfs, and ability cost nerfs that they added over the years.

imo, DKs need faster ultimate regen along with all, if not some, of the changes the OP is presenting

I main a DK and I think they are plenty strong. Fight to draws against mag Sorc since they can't kill me and I struggle to kill them but otherwise I'd say DK has no issues. DK doesn't need mobility, it's strength is locking people down and if they want to stay at range use flappers to reflect projectiles. That said, if you want to spur a "buff DK" movement, I won't complain about being made OP. You can wear 5 light with S&B and basically stand in the face of a 20 man Zerg, why do you need mobility?

Sharee wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Stone Giant - Stone Fist morph
Range reduced from 28m to 5m;
If enemy is stunned, continues to deal 100% more damage and sets enemy off balance;
Damage type changed to Fire.

Reasoning
The range on Stone Giant is completely unnecessary and makes it more of a "troll" ability than a useful combat ability.

You haven't see a mDK "one-shot" people with heavy attack+stone giant -> dragon leap, i take it. I strongly disagree with your reasoning there. It's my main attack combo in PvP, and the burst is deadly.

So what sets are worth checking out? Think my old mdk (who I haven't touched since start of homestead) is stil sitting in a set of heavy gold seducers and silk of the suns.

I run Kag's, BSW and Skoria. Either dual S&B, or dual wield / S&B front bar and destro back bar with the Kag's 5 piece active on the back. Depends if I'm solo or in a group how I use the set up. Replace your seducers with Kag's and you should be fine.

Sharee · July 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You absolutely cannot beat a properly geared player of equal skill with an mDK heavy attack build. Idk how you try to spin it, you're killing players who you are better than and provide very little threat to anyone who is better than you. Most other classes have the opportunity to create burst and that can punish playe

Well i do not play most other classes. So i have to take what i can get. And there is no better way to cause a ranged, nearly-instant high burst of damage with a mDK than a ingeous-buffed, fully-charged heavy fire staff attack into a stone giant. You get an enemy who is lying face-down in the dirt with 2/3 to 3/4 of his HP gone. The players that "provide very little threat" are dead by now. Most others die if i leap on them. Only thing that survives are toons specifically build for it.

I've been taking out players inside guild ball-groups with it. I've been taking out 1vX-ing sorcs that have been going for hours without a death otherwise. I may not beat a properly geared player of equal skill 100% of the time if he can afford to give me his full attention(i've killed plenty that way however), but thankfully, cyrodiil is not a series of duels, and my character is built to be the most effective in the real environment he plays in.

Drachenfier · July 2017

What's up with the Stonefist heal morph....i picked it up at low level because my only heal options require melee range and status effects, and even though the tooltip says it heals for 3.3k, it only heals me for 300-400 in Cyrodiil

NBrookus · July 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

What's up with the Stonefist heal morph....i picked it up at low level because my only heal options require melee range and status effects, and even though the tooltip says it heals for 3.3k, it only heals me for 300-400 in Cyrodiil

I've never used that morph, but I would guess that the heal is reduced by the enemies' resistances. This is in line with other DK damage/heals like embers and whip; you have to do damage to get good heals.

Coag Dragon Blood is good since they fixed it. Use that instead -- no enemy required to get a pretty nice heal.

Drachenfier · July 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

What's up with the Stonefist heal morph....i picked it up at low level because my only heal options require melee range and status effects, and even though the tooltip says it heals for 3.3k, it only heals me for 300-400 in Cyrodiil

I've never used that morph, but I would guess that the heal is reduced by the enemies' resistances. This is in line with other DK damage/heals like embers and whip; you have to do damage to get good heals.

Coag Dragon Blood is good since they fixed it. Use that instead -- no enemy required to get a pretty nice heal.

The heal for that morph isn't based off of damage done, though. It's a flat heal amount.

I'll be using CDB, I just haven't unlocked it yet on my lowbie DK I made this week

Zvorgin · July 2017

Coagulating blood is amazing now, I'll get 10k crit heals in Cyrodiil with it.

cpuScientist · July 2017

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

Kilandros · July 2017

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

PainfulFAFA · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

so much this.

Scyantific · July 2017

#bringbackblindingflashes
#bringbackmajorevastiontocinderstorm

Kilandros · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

Bashev · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

I bet you are running with a group or with a zerg and you pretend that you play solo. Why on earth you will want to cast igneous shield for the mending buff that you said and then the burst heal (Coagulating Blood)? It is way better if you just cast Coagulating Blood twice in a row.

Lexxypwns · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Stone Giant - Stone Fist morph
Range reduced from 28m to 5m;
If enemy is stunned, continues to deal 100% more damage and sets enemy off balance;
Damage type changed to Fire.

Reasoning
The range on Stone Giant is completely unnecessary and makes it more of a "troll" ability than a useful combat ability.

You haven't see a mDK "one-shot" people with heavy attack+stone giant -> dragon leap, i take it. I strongly disagree with your reasoning there. It's my main attack combo in PvP, and the burst is deadly.

Heavy att mDKs builds hit the hardest of any class sure, but they are absolutely squishy/unsustainable and cant last outside of a zerg tbh

You wouldn't use a screwdriver to beat in a nail. Use the correct tool for the correct situation. My mDK is mainly used in heavy sieges, mainly on the defense side.

That being said, the build isn't completely hopeless even when alone. It depends on who you are facing.

You absolutely cannot beat a properly geared player of equal skill with an mDK heavy attack build. Idk how you try to spin it, you're killing players who you are better than and provide very little threat to anyone who is better than you. Most other classes have the opportunity to create burst and that can punish playe

Kilandros wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Magdk is awesome in pvp. L2DK seriously. What ultimate are you referring to as the highest cost? Flame leap is cheap and actually powerful and 99% of mag players use destro ult anyway. Magdk 1v1 is very very hard to kill. I'd rather fight a good sorc any day over a dk.

I know that reading is hard, but the point of this post is to make mDK less reliant on block.

But you didn't suggest anything that doesn't also buff permablock DKs. You can't make suggestions "so DKs don't need to permablock" then list a bunch of stuff that would buff "permablock" DKs and still not drastically increase the viability of non-block DKs

Since it's pretty clear ZOS is heading down the road of eventually removing the sole non-CP campaign, I just assumed that that in itself would be another pretty big nerf to permablock builds.

But just to follow your reasoning a little more--it's hard to imagine a single mDK buff that wouldn't also buff block builds. So do we not buff anything because it could also buff block? The goal is to REDUCE mDK's reliance on block. I've made that quite clear I think. If you have a better way of buffing non-block builds then please share.

Yes, you should absolutely not buff a class that's in a decent place without adjusting mechanics that would make those buffs OP. This seems clear to me.

Just Because your suggestions CAN make DK less reliant on block, doesn't mean that they have to stop being reliant on block after these buffs, which would make them OP.

I think DK needs a high damage channel. Then you can't just build for block because channels drop block. This is why "permablock" isn't an issue with magplar and magden, because they each rely on a channel/cast time ability for burst. Pair this with some minor defensive buffs and we are closer to eliminating "permablock"

Perhaps giving cinder storm minor evasion and minor protection when you stand it then making stone fist a melee cast time ability along with your suggested buffs would be a smart choice

Zvorgin · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

QuebraRegra · July 2017

read MDK as "MURDER DEATH KILL" John Spartan.

Kilandros · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

I guess if you're farming solo pugs in BWB it'll work yeah. But that build won't work solo against experienced players.

Kilandros · July 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Stone Giant - Stone Fist morph
Range reduced from 28m to 5m;
If enemy is stunned, continues to deal 100% more damage and sets enemy off balance;
Damage type changed to Fire.

Reasoning
The range on Stone Giant is completely unnecessary and makes it more of a "troll" ability than a useful combat ability.

You haven't see a mDK "one-shot" people with heavy attack+stone giant -> dragon leap, i take it. I strongly disagree with your reasoning there. It's my main attack combo in PvP, and the burst is deadly.

Heavy att mDKs builds hit the hardest of any class sure, but they are absolutely squishy/unsustainable and cant last outside of a zerg tbh

You wouldn't use a screwdriver to beat in a nail. Use the correct tool for the correct situation. My mDK is mainly used in heavy sieges, mainly on the defense side.

That being said, the build isn't completely hopeless even when alone. It depends on who you are facing.

You absolutely cannot beat a properly geared player of equal skill with an mDK heavy attack build. Idk how you try to spin it, you're killing players who you are better than and provide very little threat to anyone who is better than you. Most other classes have the opportunity to create burst and that can punish playe

Kilandros wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Magdk is awesome in pvp. L2DK seriously. What ultimate are you referring to as the highest cost? Flame leap is cheap and actually powerful and 99% of mag players use destro ult anyway. Magdk 1v1 is very very hard to kill. I'd rather fight a good sorc any day over a dk.

I know that reading is hard, but the point of this post is to make mDK less reliant on block.

But you didn't suggest anything that doesn't also buff permablock DKs. You can't make suggestions "so DKs don't need to permablock" then list a bunch of stuff that would buff "permablock" DKs and still not drastically increase the viability of non-block DKs

Since it's pretty clear ZOS is heading down the road of eventually removing the sole non-CP campaign, I just assumed that that in itself would be another pretty big nerf to permablock builds.

But just to follow your reasoning a little more--it's hard to imagine a single mDK buff that wouldn't also buff block builds. So do we not buff anything because it could also buff block? The goal is to REDUCE mDK's reliance on block. I've made that quite clear I think. If you have a better way of buffing non-block builds then please share.

Yes, you should absolutely not buff a class that's in a decent place without adjusting mechanics that would make those buffs OP. This seems clear to me.

Just Because your suggestions CAN make DK less reliant on block, doesn't mean that they have to stop being reliant on block after these buffs, which would make them OP.

I think DK needs a high damage channel. Then you can't just build for block because channels drop block. This is why "permablock" isn't an issue with magplar and magden, because they each rely on a channel/cast time ability for burst. Pair this with some minor defensive buffs and we are closer to eliminating "permablock"

Perhaps giving cinder storm minor evasion and minor protection when you stand it then making stone fist a melee cast time ability along with your suggested buffs would be a smart choice

I disagree. I don't think adding off-balance effect to certain abilities is as big as a "buff" as you're making it out to be.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

I guess if you're farming solo pugs in BWB it'll work yeah. But that build won't work solo against experienced players.

Way to be open minded. Start a thread about why mDK has to rely on block based on an already biased and decided opinion, get counterpoints from people who successfully play without relying on block and then tell them their builds don't work. Classic ESO forum thread.

Kilandros · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

I guess if you're farming solo pugs in BWB it'll work yeah. But that build won't work solo against experienced players.

Way to be open minded. Start a thread about why mDK has to rely on block based on an already biased and decided opinion, get counterpoints from people who successfully play without relying on block and then tell them their builds don't work. Classic ESO forum thread.

What? You came into this thread and effectively tried telling me I'm wrong and used your build as an example. I'm disagreeing with you. But this isn't a 1-way street where only you are allowed to disagree and critique what I have to say while I have to take what you say as gospel.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

I guess if you're farming solo pugs in BWB it'll work yeah. But that build won't work solo against experienced players.

Way to be open minded. Start a thread about why mDK has to rely on block based on an already biased and decided opinion, get counterpoints from people who successfully play without relying on block and then tell them their builds don't work. Classic ESO forum thread.

What? You came into this thread and effectively tried telling me I'm wrong and used your build as an example. I'm disagreeing with you. But this isn't a 1-way street where only you are allowed to disagree and critique what I have to say while I have to take what you say as gospel.

Anyone who plays the mDK without perma blocking does disagree with you. Talons, Fossilize, Reflective Scales, Burning Embers, Coagulating Blood all provide defensive utility outside of blocking. Were you looking for everyone to just come into the thread and say, "Yeah perma block is required on the mDK!" or looking to have an actual discussion?

Kilandros · July 2017

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

I guess if you're farming solo pugs in BWB it'll work yeah. But that build won't work solo against experienced players.

Way to be open minded. Start a thread about why mDK has to rely on block based on an already biased and decided opinion, get counterpoints from people who successfully play without relying on block and then tell them their builds don't work. Classic ESO forum thread.

What? You came into this thread and effectively tried telling me I'm wrong and used your build as an example. I'm disagreeing with you. But this isn't a 1-way street where only you are allowed to disagree and critique what I have to say while I have to take what you say as gospel.

Anyone who plays the mDK without perma blocking does disagree with you. Talons, Fossilize, Reflective Scales, Burning Embers, Coagulating Blood all provide defensive utility outside of blocking. Were you looking for everyone to just come into the thread and say, "Yeah perma block is required on the mDK!" or looking to have an actual discussion?

No but I am expecting them to not become upset and call me biased and closed minded when I disagree with them. That's what I'm saying.

Zvorgin · July 2017

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Zvorgin wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

sly007 wrote: »

Magicka dk does not need any buffs whatsoever. It's at a great place in duels, battle ground, and cyrodiil. It's at such a good place that I had to take a break from the class. The challenge that free me to the class is no longer there. The buffs you suggested are over the top and will make the class over powered.

Why doesn't it need any buffs?
Whip does so much damage and procs a heal stronger than both rally or vigor.

Dot pressure is there if needed. It's not necessary to secure a kill but they are an added bonus.
Ember can to spammed defensively or left to tick for high damage and a burst heal. You can place it on multiple targets and be healed throughout the fight.
Engulfing has always been a good dot and the best damage buff. A flat 10% damage on flame abilities. That's better than penetration since it works on shields. It's not even necessary because whip already does high damage.

Volatile armor dot is amazing. It's a buff that also placed a dot on the target. It also has the damage return on melee hits. The dot may not be had strong at embers but it's a free dot and another negative effect that templars have cleanse.

A free off balance on cinder is way too strong considering cinder has a 18 second duratuon and ticks every second. That means power lash on demand. Free 12 to 14k damage with a free 15 to 18k 2 second hot. That will be way too op. You want to increase your off balance procs? Use shattering rocks. It had a 50% chance to proc off balance on nearby enemies or use a lightning staff. Because your suggestion is not a balanced one.

I had to LOL at your magna shield suggestion.
150% damage increase for 15 seconds. In your wettest dreams.

Flames of oblivion is too cheap and too strong to be another aoe ability in the dk arsenal. As of now, dks can spam talons and deep breath to do 15k to 18k aoe damage every 2.5 seconds at the cost of around 6k magicka while healing too at that. Add grothdarr and standard or bats to the mix and things begin to melt. Better yet you can time breath with leap and most players not blocking are dead. Still alive? Leap knocks back player so whip then lash. Come out with a damage shield with a nice hot for the next target.

Bottom line is magicka DK does NOT need a buff.

This is the thing. While I'd entertain buffs for any class. And like the discussion. I do not feel my magDK lacking at all. I just cannot think of what's "wrong" with him. Sure buffs are nice, and heck id take em. But as you say they are plenty strong. And in a very good spot IMO. I play my mDK light and the damage is superb. And I'm still plenty survivable. I feel like people are just stuck in the heavy armor meta and want to force it to work still. mDK are amazing.

They're lacking in terms of build variety. Other than some niche and generally ineffective heavy attack Inferno staff builds, mDKs all run the same 1H/S + 1H/S or Destro combo. Compare to Magsorcs or Magplars who can and do have effective 1H/S builds, DW builds, and Destro builds.

You guys are losing focus on the goal of this thread and that is to reduce mDK's reliance on block. I know it's easy to post knee-jerk reactions like "DK too stronk" and "L2P you suck" to what you perceive are just mindless "plz buff x class" posts but that isn't the intention of this thread at all. As I made quite clear, I want to make block less of a thing for mDK.

So while I'm glad that you guys are enjoying you mDK and are happy with your builds, those builds are all pretty reliant upon block. Believe it or not, other forms of defense exist (and, in the case of mDK and Magplar, used to exist) in this game. Sorcs have streak and Ward. Nightblades have cloak. DKs rely entirely on block and Mist. I find that pretty boring.

That's why I'm asking for buffs to our defensive mechanics so that we aren't so pigeonholed into block builds. After all, we used to have a pretty insane defensive toolkit back when Cinder Storm granted Miss Chance, when Reflect Scales actually worked. If even a portion of that toolkit was restored, then we'd see more build variety.

I mainly run dual swords and destro and don't block, we get on demand major mending + an instant burst heal that is on demand in coagulating blood. We also have flappers to reflect projectiles. I also don't run mist at all, I think you need to take a look and branch out on how you think about playing.

Also, Crowd control is a form of defense and we have talons and the best stun in the game with fossilize.

No offense, but I don't see how you sustain / survive against experienced players with that set up and no mist. Are you talking about playing in groups? I run DW high damage bomb DK in groups too--but that's the Destro meta. Or are you saying you run around solo open world with DW swords and no mist form?

Obviously I'm not trying to get mDK buffed in 14-man groups. That should be pretty clear by the thread title.

I do run it open world solo or in 2 man groups and it's fine. Flappers + crowd control dictates fights and Coagulating blood can heal for 10k on a crit. 37k magicka, 28k health, 14k stamina and 1.8k magicka regen with 2.1k spell power unbuffed. I have found mist is a waste of a skill spot.

I guess if you're farming solo pugs in BWB it'll work yeah. But that build won't work solo against experienced players.

Way to be open minded. Start a thread about why mDK has to rely on block based on an already biased and decided opinion, get counterpoints from people who successfully play without relying on block and then tell them their builds don't work. Classic ESO forum thread.

What? You came into this thread and effectively tried telling me I'm wrong and used your build as an example. I'm disagreeing with you. But this isn't a 1-way street where only you are allowed to disagree and critique what I have to say while I have to take what you say as gospel.

Anyone who plays the mDK without perma blocking does disagree with you. Talons, Fossilize, Reflective Scales, Burning Embers, Coagulating Blood all provide defensive utility outside of blocking. Were you looking for everyone to just come into the thread and say, "Yeah perma block is required on the mDK!" or looking to have an actual discussion?

No but I am expecting them to not become upset and call me biased and closed minded when I disagree with them. That's what I'm saying.

I'll agree to disagree on the need for DK buffs. I suggest giving a non-block build a chance, I think you'll find it can be pretty effective.