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Thanks Zenimax

MissDismal
MissDismal
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$80 on crown crates and not a single mount or something other than *** apparel items

So far its all been consumables like the poisons, and then I got enough to mimic stones for 33 crown gems, and then like 5 nix hounds, and for whatever reason, I kept getting the dwarf-style brow shields. YA I got the breton hero armor I wanted but *** its not worth $80.

and before anyone says "if you dont like it dont buy" thing is I LIKE the content in the crown crates and I'm willing to buy, I'm just asking for a little bit of pay out for the money I'm spending you know????

Anyway I'm blaming Zenimax for *** up the rng just so they get more money.
  • Darkestnght
    Darkestnght
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    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.
    Xbox NA - CP1300+
    Xbox EU - CP400+

  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.

    Everyone knows it's a gamble; you guys don't have to keep saying that. All people are suggesting is that the odds improve a little in our favor, especially considering the crates seem much more stacked against us than before.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • MissDismal
    MissDismal
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    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.

    I don't think that justifies anything x'D the rng for the storm and wild hunt crates were so much more balanced, I had nothing to complain about. This season has been terrible...I just want one mount man. :s
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    ZoS loves RNG in general, I hope they use the money from crown crates to make a token system. Or just remove bind on pick up and let gold be the token system
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Alliance Overlord
    She/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    Yes they did it to get more money and unfortunately that is how it goes . It really is best to avoid them or if you don't get what you want after one purchase avoid making a second . I would wish you luck but I don't want you to gamble anymore on ZoS .
  • SydneyGrey
    SydneyGrey
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    MissDismal wrote: »
    I don't think that justifies anything x'D the rng for the storm and wild hunt crates were so much more balanced, I had nothing to complain about. This season has been terrible...I just want one mount man. :s
    Actually, I had a LOT worse luck with Wild Hunt crates. I've had great luck with the Dwarven.

  • Trinity_Is_My_Name
    Trinity_Is_My_Name
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    Yeah, the odds are not in the consumer's favor.
  • MissDismal
    MissDismal
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    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    MissDismal wrote: »
    I don't think that justifies anything x'D the rng for the storm and wild hunt crates were so much more balanced, I had nothing to complain about. This season has been terrible...I just want one mount man. :s
    Actually, I had a LOT worse luck with Wild Hunt crates. I've had great luck with the Dwarven.

    Please senpai give me your luck. :'T
  • Lex7xeL
    Lex7xeL
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    I don't like any kind of gambling. The only reason I've obtained 15 crown crates was 5k crowns left from my ESO+ after buying Hearthfire Kagouti and I like Ordinator Night-Raid Armor. I have now 40 gems (nix-hound 3 times), 2 hats, 4 costumes (including Night-Raid Armor), Pale Velothi Guar and Ebon Dwarven Senche. Am I happy? - Yep! Will I spent my money for more crown crates? - Nope! Only ESO+ and certain items from crown store.
  • Queo
    Queo
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    For the people who keep saying, "Stop telling people thats its gambling", no you stop. IT IS GAMBLING. Frankly, I'm glad that ZoS can make money this way. As long as people are willing to gamble, or spend money on houses they wont feel the need, the urge to make sh!#* like uber drop gears that needs a 50 dollar CS item that has to be unlocked. You have rotten luck with the RNG, so what, get over it. You made a choice to gamble for something and it didn't work out. its like going to a raffle and buying tickets and not winning. Are you going to go up and say I bought 100 bucks worth of tickets and I didnt get that ridding lawn mower, its rigged you guys screwed up! No.
  • Dragath
    Dragath
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    it is gambling, but very costly gambling.
    there should be a Crown Crate Package with X amount of Crown Crates with one guaranteed Mount for $60.
    i think that would be enough incentive for a lot of players to buy one of these, if they know they get a mount but don't like gambling in general and it would satisfy the players that already spend a lot of money on crown crates, knowing $120 are potentially 3 mounts (2x Crown Crates and 1x in Crown Gems for all the sold items).
  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    Queo wrote: »
    For the people who keep saying, "Stop telling people thats its gambling", no you stop. IT IS GAMBLING. Frankly, I'm glad that ZoS can make money this way. As long as people are willing to gamble, or spend money on houses they wont feel the need, the urge to make sh!#* like uber drop gears that needs a 50 dollar CS item that has to be unlocked. You have rotten luck with the RNG, so what, get over it. You made a choice to gamble for something and it didn't work out. its like going to a raffle and buying tickets and not winning. Are you going to go up and say I bought 100 bucks worth of tickets and I didnt get that ridding lawn mower, its rigged you guys screwed up! No.

    That's not a great analogy; obviously, raffles are based on finite items, and the odds of winning one decrease based on how many people enter to win. The crates aren't raffles or lotteries.

    Additionally, everyone knows what the definition of "gamble" is. However. Not being guaranteed a specific reward isn't the same as being unfairly denied a specific reward. If you have a 10% chance of winning, a 1% chance, a 0.1% chance, and a 0.01% or 0.001% chance, they're all gambles, but they definitely don't all have the same potential to anger or annoy the people putting their money on the line.

    This is the point being made. Maybe they should increase the chances of winning something worthwhile so it feels like less of a rip-off.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • Stopnaggin
    Stopnaggin
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    Queo wrote: »
    For the people who keep saying, "Stop telling people thats its gambling", no you stop. IT IS GAMBLING. Frankly, I'm glad that ZoS can make money this way. As long as people are willing to gamble, or spend money on houses they wont feel the need, the urge to make sh!#* like uber drop gears that needs a 50 dollar CS item that has to be unlocked. You have rotten luck with the RNG, so what, get over it. You made a choice to gamble for something and it didn't work out. its like going to a raffle and buying tickets and not winning. Are you going to go up and say I bought 100 bucks worth of tickets and I didnt get that ridding lawn mower, its rigged you guys screwed up! No.

    Nope, sure wouldnt, because if I bought tickets to a raffle I would assume it's above boards. If I found out they weighted the raffle then yes I would complain. We're not talking about gambling per se, but the fact that they changed the gamble mid stream. As a consumer that has bought crates, I can complain when they change the odds. At least when I got to a casino they aren't rigging the machine once I started playing.
  • ProfesseurFreder
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    Hanokihs wrote: »
    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.

    Everyone knows it's a gamble; you guys don't have to keep saying that. All people are suggesting is that the odds improve a little in our favor, especially considering the crates seem much more stacked against us than before.

    That's like going to the mob in Las Vegas and saying "You should make it easier for me to win and give me better value for my money." They'd laugh you right out of the casino.
    "Nothing by which all human passion and hope and folly can be mirrored and then proved ever was just a game."
    -- William Faulkner.
  • FlyLionel
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    Had 15k crowns laying around from the sale so I wanted to test this crate stuff out and didn't get a mount, bummer but it's RNG.
    The Flyers
  • Cadbury
    Cadbury
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    For me personally, when it comes to buying any Crown Crates, I always follow my man Kenny's advice



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4nJ1YEAp4
    "If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."
  • The_Lex
    The_Lex
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    Cadbury wrote: »
    For me personally, when it comes to buying any Crown Crates, I always follow my man Kenny's advice



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj4nJ1YEAp4

    Best response ever! You win the internet.
  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    Hanokihs wrote: »
    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.

    Everyone knows it's a gamble; you guys don't have to keep saying that. All people are suggesting is that the odds improve a little in our favor, especially considering the crates seem much more stacked against us than before.

    That's like going to the mob in Las Vegas and saying "You should make it easier for me to win and give me better value for my money." They'd laugh you right out of the casino.

    Obviously, because money = money.
    Pixels =/= money. So this is also a bad example.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • Jayne_Doe
    Jayne_Doe
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    Hanokihs wrote: »
    Hanokihs wrote: »
    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.

    Everyone knows it's a gamble; you guys don't have to keep saying that. All people are suggesting is that the odds improve a little in our favor, especially considering the crates seem much more stacked against us than before.

    That's like going to the mob in Las Vegas and saying "You should make it easier for me to win and give me better value for my money." They'd laugh you right out of the casino.

    Obviously, because money = money.
    Pixels =/= money. So this is also a bad example.

    How is that a bad example? The point is that you're arguing for improved odds - that the "reward" is different is irrelevant.

    Also, at least one person on here has said that they had better luck with this season than the previous season. Also, someone else mentioned getting 2 mounts out of 15 crates - one of them one of the ultra mounts. I also saw a post on the crate announcement thread from someone who got one of the ultra mounts from his free crate.

    Seems to me that people just aren't having the same luck as previous seasons, though other people are having better luck. So, it doesn't necessarily mean that they've lowered the drop rate. It may simply be that you're having worse luck than before.
    Edited by Jayne_Doe on June 27, 2017 6:10PM
  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    Jayne_Doe wrote: »
    Hanokihs wrote: »
    Hanokihs wrote: »
    $80 is a lot of money but you are gambling. That is how it kinda works.

    Everyone knows it's a gamble; you guys don't have to keep saying that. All people are suggesting is that the odds improve a little in our favor, especially considering the crates seem much more stacked against us than before.

    That's like going to the mob in Las Vegas and saying "You should make it easier for me to win and give me better value for my money." They'd laugh you right out of the casino.

    Obviously, because money = money.
    Pixels =/= money. So this is also a bad example.

    How is that a bad example? The point is that you're arguing for improved odds - that the "reward" is different is irrelevant.

    Also, at least one person on here has said that they had better luck with this season than the previous season. Also, someone else mentioned getting 2 mounts out of 15 crates - one of them one of the ultra mounts. I also saw a post on the crate announcement thread from someone who got one of the ultra mounts from his free crate.

    Seems to me that people just aren't having the same luck as previous seasons, though other people are having better luck. So, it doesn't necessarily mean that they've lowered the drop rate. It may simply be that you're having worse luck than before.

    It's a bad example because ZOS has nothing to gain by making their odds impossible; casinos do, because duh, they're trying to turn a profit. Making the players feel bad about their investment, no matter how much of a gamble it is, is going to lose the company money in the long run. People will remember that it's gotten worse, or that they feel gypped, and will refrain from buying in the future.

    Some people do report better luck, but there seems to be a greater number of people who report worse luck. I'm disregarding anyone who's refused to buy into the system, and I'm also disregarding people who only opened their one free box. People who've bought the typical 4/8/15/30 crates that they always do are coming back with a lot of negativity, because this experience doesn't match up to what they've pulled in the past.

    A few people having worse luck doesn't necessarily equate to there being a problem; on the flip side, a few people having better luck doesn't necessarily equate to there not being a problem. I'm only basing my statements on the feedback I've seen. What I've seen is disproportionately negative.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • MissDismal
    MissDismal
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    hmm...I kinda feel like the people who are like, "its just gambling, get over it" or "well theres some people who's luck was better this season" don't really understand what people like me are going through. =u= they aren't taking a moment to stop and try on other consumer's shoes.

    I've had nothing against crown crates and I understand it's sort of a risk, that there is no guarantee you'll get that mount you want immediately. HOWEVER, this is the sole reason I buy crates in bulk, cause I feel like the chances of me getting a legendary item would increase, but after purchasing 30 crates and spending $80 I haven't gotten a single mount or even a pet that WASN'T a nix hound at this point!

    The majority of what I've gotten from crates have been the nix hounds, mimic stones, and several copies of the dwarven brow piece and It's getting super irritating at this point...and I'm not the only one who's frustrated. TONS of people are pissed off with this season's rng, and it's not a far-fetched idea that the rng rates have been tampered with this season to possibly take advantage of new players joining since Morrowind launched.

    But yeah like, people, instead of scrutinizing others maybe take a second to see how you would react if you were in the situation like I am now. I have a feeling you'd be pretty pissed off too. :)
  • Queo
    Queo
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    Stopnaggin wrote: »
    Queo wrote: »
    For the people who keep saying, "Stop telling people thats its gambling", no you stop. IT IS GAMBLING. Frankly, I'm glad that ZoS can make money this way. As long as people are willing to gamble, or spend money on houses they wont feel the need, the urge to make sh!#* like uber drop gears that needs a 50 dollar CS item that has to be unlocked. You have rotten luck with the RNG, so what, get over it. You made a choice to gamble for something and it didn't work out. its like going to a raffle and buying tickets and not winning. Are you going to go up and say I bought 100 bucks worth of tickets and I didnt get that ridding lawn mower, its rigged you guys screwed up! No.

    Nope, sure wouldnt, because if I bought tickets to a raffle I would assume it's above boards. If I found out they weighted the raffle then yes I would complain. We're not talking about gambling per se, but the fact that they changed the gamble mid stream. As a consumer that has bought crates, I can complain when they change the odds. At least when I got to a casino they aren't rigging the machine once I started playing.

    Has there been an announcement? or is it "observed"? And by "mid stream" are you saying they changed the RNG right in the middle of you popping your crates, or between seasons? If its between seasons, new game new odds. How do you know that a change was made?

    Ever since i came back to the game half the people are in the camp of Crates suck, the other half are crates are fun. The bottom line is, IT IS gambling. You have no guarantees, you have no promises, no safety net. Even if they did change the RNG so what, its still a gamble. Now if there was a bug, as people suggested with the Nix hound (which i got in 2/4) then yes that should be discussed. Crying on the forum because you suspect that the RNG has been changed, which maybe it has as part of the game, is not being responsible for your actions. No in between each game they have no reason, or responsibility to tell you if they decide to change it or not. I suspect that they do tweak it a little as the popularity, or demand of the premium items in crease, why shouldn't they. Gambling by its very nature is always stacked in the houses favor, else why would they do it? If your going to Gamble the only way to do it properly is to calculate if the entertainment value is worth the amount of time you take to earn the money, NOT if any rewards offered is worth it. The only guarantee is you will pay money, It's simple.
  • Juhasow
    Juhasow
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    Well it's pure RNG doesnt matter how many crates You'll buy. Dont expect that if You'll spend more moneys on crates chance to get better items will raise You'll alwas have the same chance to get something from single crate. Ok i get some people spended lot of money and got nothing and for example I got nice wolf mount from 2nd chest after buying 4 of them it's pure RNG.
    Atleast You have crown gems for recycling not needed items so You can buy Your luck by spending enough money.
  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    Queo wrote: »
    Now if there was a bug, as people suggested with the Nix hound (which i got in 2/4) then yes that should be discussed. Crying on the forum because you suspect that the RNG has been changed, which maybe it has as part of the game, is not being responsible for your actions.

    How is a bug any different, let alone better, than malice in terms of discussion? And you could stand to be less condescending.

    Once again, the issue isn't that there's a gamble. The issue is that the gamble is too heavy-handed and too skewed in the house's favor. Nobody here is expecting to win big with every box, but we're not expecting to lose big, either. It's a balancing issue, and needs to be addressed if they don't expect the Dwarven season to be the end of the line.

    When even your biggest defenders and the least frugal whales say there's a problem, maybe there's actually a problem.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • Zhaedri
    Zhaedri
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    Sure, it is gambling, and they do have some cool items in the crates, but the drop rate seems like a real rip-off. This isn't like a casino where they may only have 4 apex mounts available a day in some back room somewhere so they rig the games so that they only give out four a day max, or that they are running short on motif books so the games are way less likely to offer them. This is not gambling on /finite/ items that actually cost money, or jackpots of real world cash. There isn't only one Draugr giftbasket, and one dwarven cadillac, and sixty-million mudcrabs in some back room and when they are gone its done. It's pixels and copies of code and there is no good reason why there cannot be infinity number of any given item on the drop table to be given out.

    It is not a stretch to ask that Zenimax at least make it so that when we give them money for whatever, that we get what we see as a fair return on our investment. We pay however much for this or that, we expect our purchase to be worth that much or give us a certain amount of satisfaction. When droves of people are upset or feel ripped off by the product, there is a certain point where it stops being 'oh you are gambling and the rng just screwed you a bit, haha', and becomes 'this product is making people unhappy because of poor drop rates of stuff that players feel are worthwhile rewards'. The latter drives away customers. People are 10x more likely to talk about a bad experience they had with a company as opposed to a good experience with a company.

    When customers become unhappy with a product, they stop buying it. When a company puts out products that customers are unhappy with and don't buy, eventually their brand name gets equated to an unpleasant customer experience and poor products. Once that happens, a business begins their slow (or fast) fall to economic death. There is a tipping point in there somewhere, and I don't believe Zenimax has crossed the 'Sears Line' yet -- they have a little bit of time to solve the situation.

    It is not unfair or bad for a customer to give feedback on a product, and when it comes to a company they care about that otherwise produces good products, it is a good thing to give feedback on products that they don't feel are very good; this helps the company make things better (IF they care about the feedback, which I really hope Zenimax does).

    When people complain about the crown crates -- they are giving feedback on the product. "This item is not worth what I have paid into it." "This item is not functioning as it appears it should." "This item feels very broken in the way it works." "I feel this item is a scam based off of my experience with it."

    "Get over it, you are gambling," is about a useful response as "Well, the hairdryer didn't light MY hair on fire and give me third degree burns, so you lot that it did happen to should just get over it." Just because the hairdryer you bought didn't give you a faulty experience doesn't mean everyone will have a non-faulty experience, and just because you expect a hairdryer to maybe have a high chance of lighting you on fire, doesn't mean that it is right and good, and those that get lit on fire should shrug and be 'oh well, that is how this brand of hairdryers are' and not offer feedback to the company suggesting 'hey, can the hairdryers please not have a 70% chance of lighting my hair on fire?' or posting complaints 'this hairdryer lights hair on fire, beware!'

    Crown crates are a product, and consumers have every right to state that they feel their experience with the product was a bad one, and that they feel as a result that the product is not worth the price. "Hey, this isn't working for us, here's what WOULD work for us, can you please fix this?" is a totally reasonable response to a product that consumers see as faulty or a bad investment.

    TL;DR: Crown crates are a product and those that use them have every right to give feedback about their experience with them, good or ill, as consumers do for /any/ product. Being a gambling-based product does not change whether or not consumers can give feedback on it.
    @Zhaedri PC NA

  • dusk194
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    I'd love to see how this "i should win more when i gambel" argument goes over in Vegas. So it supposed to be different because its not in a cassino?
  • Hanokihs
    Hanokihs
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    dusk194 wrote: »
    I'd love to see how this "i should win more when i gambel" argument goes over in Vegas. So it supposed to be different because its not in a cassino?

    Well... Yeah. Read up a few posts; that's been addressed.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • fyrestrtr88
    fyrestrtr88
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    Honestly, I've probably spent a bit much on the crown crates, between last season and this season...I have the wild hunt senche and bear mounts, the doom wolf, the dwarven wolf, banded guar charger, dro-m'athra senche, green narsis guar, and the pale velothi guar. My favorite is the wild hunt senche. I'm currently trying for the special ebon dwarven senche and possibly the Adamat dwarven horse...I'd settle for one or the other though : )
  • Hanokihs
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    I'm currently trying for the special ebon dwarven senche and possibly the Adamat dwarven horse...I'd settle for one or the other though : )

    Same here, but I gave up on it after spending exactly too much money on the attempts; nothing unaffordable, but getting sad or angry every time I open a box isn't a good way to play. I got the vitrine wolf multiple times, and after #6, I took it as a sign to throw in the towel. Hopefully the ebon senche in particular comes back in some form later so I can have it, because I doubt it'll be a lucky pull from the free crates they're about to dish out.

    It really sucks, because I've always gotten the wolf, bear, horse, and senche mounts from the crates, but since I can't get the senche and horse for this one... So much for collecting. My pocket book is pretty firmly shut from now on because my collection will never be satisfactorily complete anymore, so unless something absolutely knocks my socks off... Oh well.
    "I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum.
    "I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.
  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    Hollery wrote: »
    ZoS loves RNG in general
    Except, 15 Nix Hounds out of 20 crates is *not* RNG, it's obviously heavily weighted towards certain items ...
    dry.gif
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