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Twilight Matriarch is terrible and useless

ecru
ecru
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I read somewhere that this pet is supposed to be good for healing a group! The tooltip seems to agree. Decent size heal for two people at once, awesome. The only problem is that every single time you try to use the Twilight Matriarch heal, the stupid pet is dead.

I learned this the hard way. Oh, my group is taking damage? Better cast that pet heal. Wait, why am I recasting my pet? Oh yeah, he died. Again. He decided to agro literally everything because he thinks he's both a tank and a dps at the same time.

In other games, pets are generally immune to red circles, boss mechanics, or anything else that might instagib them because their AI is stupid. And you can make them passive so they don't try to make friends with literally every enemy npc within a square kilometer. In ESO, they're kamikaze pilots whose sole purpose seems to be to die to everything.

This might be a little bit easier if I could somehow see my pet's health with some sort of.. static pet health bar. ESO doesn't seem to have that either.

??????

Make Twilight Matriarch Great Again, if it ever was.
Gryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer
  • Davor
    Davor
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    Don't they have health bars over their heads? Or do you mean else where on the screen? If so, yeah I agree, would be nice to see it else where on the screen since lots of times I never know where she is.
    Not my quote but I love this saying

    "I would pay It for support. But since they choosed we are just numbers and not customers, i dont mind if game and zos goes to oblivion"
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    Matriarch is a powerful burst heal with a greater application range and higher potency than bol. The trade off is needing to double bar it and managing the pet.
  • ecru
    ecru
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    Davor wrote: »
    Don't they have health bars over their heads? Or do you mean else where on the screen? If so, yeah I agree, would be nice to see it else where on the screen since lots of times I never know where she is.

    Yeah that's what I meant. The pet will disappear out of view and it's anyone's guess as to what the pet's health is at.
    Gryphon Heart
    Godslayer
    Dawnbringer
  • Tannus15
    Tannus15
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    Pets take half damage from AOE and are immune to some effects, but you really need to babysit them.

    Pretty much go for 100% hardened ward uptime and you'll find your pets are a lot tougher. If you run the infernal guardian monster set this turns into a decent damage spell as well.
  • Magdalina
    Magdalina
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    First of all, it's a she ;) Not only is her name Matriarch but she also has very distinctive visual signs of uh...female gender.

    Second of all, she is ~80% immune to AoE so basically only things killing her are direct attacks and some special stuff like the totem in vet RoM on last boss. That's why you use Hardened Ward(or the other morph) when you know there's a lot of possibly untaunted melee around(trash packs included). Next, you now MUST cast Twilight heal every once in a while even if no groupmates require it, in order to heal Twilight herself since ZOS removed in combat pet health regeneration and your other heals may or may not hit her.

    She is actually pretty sturdy, you just need to know when to use shields and heals. You also should not be relying on her as one and only heal. Twilight died? Well turn around and burst heal with Combat Prayer then, then spam a couple Springs and then as Springs ticks use that safe time to re-summon the pet.

    I do agree a more visible health bar would be nice indeed though. Perhaps an optional toggle in settings adding your pets' health to the group/near your own healthbar or something.

    Edit: Oh and yes. She taunts. Not sure why but it actually does come in handy sometimes. You need to make sure that your tank is taunting(her taunt will not steal that of an actual tank) on bosses and if she gets stuck behind fighting a lonely zombie on a trash mob, just y+rmb her(if on PC, not sure on console), this will make her stop fighting and come to your side generally(and the stray mob will follow).
    Edited by Magdalina on July 3, 2017 8:05AM
  • Fallen_Ray
    Fallen_Ray
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    Annoying really, I know. But I can keep my Matriarch alive a whole dungeon run when I run my sorcerer as healer.

    First, Hardened Ward/Empowered Ward; MUST KEEP ACTIVE AT ALL TIMES, always recast as soon as you notice your shield is gone, if it's gone on you its gone on your pet too.

    Second, always and I mean always keep a healing overtime effect active, even in no one needs it once the pet grabs it, it helps mitigate some damage.

    Thirdly use the pet's healing skill on a regular basis even if no one needs a heal, your pet might. It's hard keeping a tab on your pets actual health lvl with everything that's going on screen during boss fights and it's easy to get lost in the clutter of friendly/enemy AOE that goes all at once.

    Being a sorcerer healer can be really hard on your magicka so complement with energy overload ultimate. The third bar is a nice adition, not only that but after you cast shields, heal overtime and the party is at full health you can use the chance the team is on their "prime" to shoot some bolts to recover some magicka and deal some big damage.
    Edited by Fallen_Ray on July 3, 2017 3:05PM
    "Dear brother, I do not spread rumors, I create them"- Lucien Lachance
  • Imhotep71
    Imhotep71
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    Um...wut? The Matriarch is great. You need to add the heal in as part of your rotation along with Empowered Ward being up at all times as stated above.

    Ever dance with the Devil in the pale moonlight?

  • ParaNostram
    ParaNostram
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    While your feelings are valid I would like to add that in order to utilize pets properly with any real survivability, wards will be sometimes necessary. Also you will need to remember to (if you use heals that are area of effect) heal your pet from time to time. Really using the command pet key is a life saver. I bind it to the Z key.

    Basically whenever you move, I would recommend putting the pet on passive, thus it follows you. Then you can either use the command again or do a heavy attack for it to attack the boss again and it's right there beside you.

    I wish you luck in your future healing.
    "Your mistake is you begged for your life, not for mercy. I will show you there are many fates worse than death."

    Para Nostram
    Bosmer Sorceress
    Witch of Evermore

    "Death is a privilege that can be denied by it's learned scholars."
    Order of the Black Worm
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    The Matriarch is not bad. The only times it dies is vMA round 7 when the Behemoth screams. Otherwise I seldom have to re-summon her. But I guess it's because the constant shielding is a habit I got through PvP.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • idk
    idk
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Matriarch is a powerful burst heal with a greater application range and higher potency than bol. The trade off is needing to double bar it and managing the pet.

    Yes it's a great heal but the bigger issue, as OP points out, it's unreliable. When you need to use such a heal I needs to be available then.
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Matriarch is a powerful burst heal with a greater application range and higher potency than bol. The trade off is needing to double bar it and managing the pet.

    Yes it's a great heal but the bigger issue, as OP points out, it's unreliable. When you need to use such a heal I needs to be available then.

    Which is a user error more than anything. If our trial healer can maintain matriarch in vet trials, i dont see how it is an issue for anything below that for pve.

    Pvp however is a slightly different story.
  • zcripturez
    The way I have been getting by is to send your pet to attack the closest target to you then hit the heal to at least keep her alive. The morrowind update broke the ability to put pets on passive so that's all we really have till it gets fixed.
  • Erraln
    Erraln
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    Magdalina wrote: »
    First of all, it's a she ;) Not only is her name Matriarch but she also has very distinctive visual signs of uh...female gender.

    Second of all, she is ~80% immune to AoE so basically only things killing her are direct attacks and some special stuff like the totem in vet RoM on last boss. That's why you use Hardened Ward(or the other morph) when you know there's a lot of possibly untaunted melee around(trash packs included). Next, you now MUST cast Twilight heal every once in a while even if no groupmates require it, in order to heal Twilight herself since ZOS removed in combat pet health regeneration and your other heals may or may not hit her.

    She is actually pretty sturdy, you just need to know when to use shields and heals. You also should not be relying on her as one and only heal. Twilight died? Well turn around and burst heal with Combat Prayer then, then spam a couple Springs and then as Springs ticks use that safe time to re-summon the pet.

    I do agree a more visible health bar would be nice indeed though. Perhaps an optional toggle in settings adding your pets' health to the group/near your own healthbar or something.

    Edit: Oh and yes. She taunts. Not sure why but it actually does come in handy sometimes. You need to make sure that your tank is taunting(her taunt will not steal that of an actual tank) on bosses and if she gets stuck behind fighting a lonely zombie on a trash mob, just y+rmb her(if on PC, not sure on console), this will make her stop fighting and come to your side generally(and the stray mob will follow).

    Pets do not taunt. Pets may sometimes draw aggression in the same way a wayward dps would; by attacking something not taunted. Taunts will always override a pet attacking something. Command your pet to stand down (Y+ Right Click on PC by default) if you don't want it attacking active enemies. Heavy attacks will re-enable its aggression, as they serve as a target beacon for pets. It would be great if that were a toggleable OPTION, but I digress.

    ecru: Your Sorcerer class ward protects your Daedra as well, cast it.
    Ground heals (Healing Springs, Combat Prayer, other people's class abilities) will heal Daedra in their radius. Cast them.


  • KochDerDamonen
    KochDerDamonen
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    Mind your pet's health, cast the heal if she needs it too. :p
    If you quote someone, and intend for them to see what you have said, be sure to Mention them with @[insert name].
  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    I'll tell you what's annoying about that damn thing and it ain't the healing or keeping it up (Ooooh err). It's when you go into a vendors inventory, banker or your own inventory and someone is stood right next to you with that damn pet.
  • Magdalina
    Magdalina
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    Erraln wrote: »
    Magdalina wrote: »
    First of all, it's a she ;) Not only is her name Matriarch but she also has very distinctive visual signs of uh...female gender.

    Second of all, she is ~80% immune to AoE so basically only things killing her are direct attacks and some special stuff like the totem in vet RoM on last boss. That's why you use Hardened Ward(or the other morph) when you know there's a lot of possibly untaunted melee around(trash packs included). Next, you now MUST cast Twilight heal every once in a while even if no groupmates require it, in order to heal Twilight herself since ZOS removed in combat pet health regeneration and your other heals may or may not hit her.

    She is actually pretty sturdy, you just need to know when to use shields and heals. You also should not be relying on her as one and only heal. Twilight died? Well turn around and burst heal with Combat Prayer then, then spam a couple Springs and then as Springs ticks use that safe time to re-summon the pet.

    I do agree a more visible health bar would be nice indeed though. Perhaps an optional toggle in settings adding your pets' health to the group/near your own healthbar or something.

    Edit: Oh and yes. She taunts. Not sure why but it actually does come in handy sometimes. You need to make sure that your tank is taunting(her taunt will not steal that of an actual tank) on bosses and if she gets stuck behind fighting a lonely zombie on a trash mob, just y+rmb her(if on PC, not sure on console), this will make her stop fighting and come to your side generally(and the stray mob will follow).

    Pets do not taunt. Pets may sometimes draw aggression in the same way a wayward dps would; by attacking something not taunted. Taunts will always override a pet attacking something. Command your pet to stand down (Y+ Right Click on PC by default) if you don't want it attacking active enemies. Heavy attacks will re-enable its aggression, as they serve as a target beacon for pets. It would be great if that were a toggleable OPTION, but I digress.

    ecru: Your Sorcerer class ward protects your Daedra as well, cast it.
    Ground heals (Healing Springs, Combat Prayer, other people's class abilities) will heal Daedra in their radius. Cast them.


    Twilight does have a taunt, Clannfear does too. Player taunt will always override it though. Twilight's behavior is very distinctly different from that of Familiar in terms of agro - she will nearly always have a mob on her if it's not taunted and more interestingly she will keep it. If you run in and agro something you always get initial agro however if you aren't using a proper taunt the monster will probably veer off to your groupmates soon enough. It works the same with Familiar(when you send him in first). However if you send Twilight in first she will pretty much never lose agro until she dies, even if the fight drags on for minutes.

    Their taunt has even been mentioned in patch notes a few times, along the lines of "pets will no longer steal taunt".
  • Gargath
    Gargath
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    The Matriarch's heal is op especially on build with 50k magicka, the heal is strong and fast and better than BoL. The real disadvantage is the pet itself, the annoying dimensions and animation. It must be turned into parrot or humming-bird that are small but also fly. The Matriarch is just too big and often covers the screen with wings and body which is bad for the gameplay.
    Edited by Gargath on July 3, 2017 6:04PM
    PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."
  • SmellyUnlimited
    SmellyUnlimited
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    Matriarch is a powerful burst heal with a greater application range and higher potency than bol. The trade off is needing to double bar it and managing the pet.

    Definitely not. It can heal one more target than BoL, but the potency is far from the same (tooltip is a very clear indication of this). Not to mention BoL potency remains static, while Matriarch is potent only if alive. I don’t want to bet an emergency burst heal on a finite skill that requires the use of ANOTHER skill just to make it viable.
    DO. NOT. WIPE. (in game OR out!)
  • Inarre
    Inarre
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    Is this thread click bait? I mean other than her penchant for running off and getting nachos when I'm not looking she does a pretty good job.
  • Iselin
    Iselin
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    "Y" + Right Click (or whatever is your console equivalent) is your friend and so is turning on the pet's health bar (it's a "friendly NPC")

    If you know how to play it's one of the best heals in the game because it's non-directional smart heal.
    Edited by Iselin on March 7, 2018 12:11AM
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Why necro this?
  • smacky
    smacky
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    I run Twilight Matriarch, and it is hardly ever dead.

    1. Having the pet slotted and having the pet active help my HP, since I have no points in Health.
    2. I heal my pet regularly during battle, as I do myself (it is not designed for group healing really)
    3. I use Empowered ward, which grants a damage shield to both me and my pet

    The pet only agro's when you have actually been detected by an enemy.

    I can capture outbuildings in Cyrodil, using my magsorc, with the pet, solo and using a PvE setup.

    Like any setup in this game, if you manage it right, youcan use it well.
    Some people can pull 40k+ DPS with a pet build (scamp). I have tried with a near identical setup, and can't pull anywhere near that DPS. That is down to me not being able to manage the rotation they use very well.

    The Twilight Matriach is a combat pet, and as such you do need to keep an eye on it. The damage it does can be considerable, as they can get a critical hit and finish an enemy at around 20% health for you on occasion.
  • Jarryzzt
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    Matriarch works if you more or less constantly recast shield. Which, as a for-instance, is pretty much one decent way to run vMA.

    If you do not, then she wipes a lot the moment you hit veteran-level content. In my personal experience. And even if you keep her alive in decent groups her utility is limited as you are a) avoiding the really bad mechanics; b) shielding moderate damage and c) have a healer that heals. Not to mention the fact that if the fight is going badly enough that you need an emergency burst heal, you are probably also having other issues (mana, snare/slow, et cetera) and ought to prioritise those first. Or the fact that you can use the slot for Power Surge, save the slot on the other bar, and get a steady once-per-second heal so long as you put out enough attacks (and maintain the buff, of course).

    So on balance, she is sort of useful but not really, not the least due to the babysitting aspect of things.
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    If she's dead all the time, it's because you're not using Hardened Ward nearly enough. Learn2Sorc. ;)

    Edit: Holy necro.
    Edited by Aurielle on March 7, 2018 12:29AM
  • smacky
    smacky
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    Jarryzzt wrote: »
    Matriarch works if you more or less constantly recast shield. Which, as a for-instance, is pretty much one decent way to run vMA.

    If you do not, then she wipes a lot the moment you hit veteran-level content. In my personal experience. And even if you keep her alive in decent groups her utility is limited as you are a) avoiding the really bad mechanics; b) shielding moderate damage and c) have a healer that heals. Not to mention the fact that if the fight is going badly enough that you need an emergency burst heal, you are probably also having other issues (mana, snare/slow, et cetera) and ought to prioritise those first. Or the fact that you can use the slot for Power Surge, save the slot on the other bar, and get a steady once-per-second heal so long as you put out enough attacks (and maintain the buff, of course).

    So on balance, she is sort of useful but not really, not the least due to the babysitting aspect of things.

    I get where you are coming from. Just wanted to point out that Power Surge is not a necessity.
    I use an Essence of Spellpower potion that grants Major Prophecy, Major Sorcery and Major Intellect for 47secs with a cooldown of 45secs.

    This free's up the slot I would otherwise use for Powersurge / Magelight
  • Kali_Despoine
    Kali_Despoine
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    Just came to say sorc healers well mine is a bad ass.
  • duendology
    duendology
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    I love my Josephine when I (usually solo) play. She's my partner in fight and source of.......staying alive...very often not only to me
    She seldom dies.

    She is far from being terrible nd useless.

    Also, you have to have her slotted on both bars.
    o_0
    Edited by duendology on March 7, 2018 12:16PM
    PC/NA
    - Redguard StamBlade dps ["bowtard" crafty girl who likes spinning with daggers too.]
    - Breton SorcMag dps [She's got an identity crisis, but I believe in her.]
    - Dunmer Templar dps/healer [she's a healer, then again she likes inferno staff too...]
    And..
    - High Elf SorcMag dps [It's quite possible his daddy was a Nord.]

    I am an old-fashioned Goth
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    :lol: to be far there a was some serious bugs before step 2017 patch
    Just came to say sorc healers well mine is a bad ass.

    Let's duel for the title :D
  • RANKK7
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    The Matriarch is powerful, not useless at all. As others probably already said (no time to read all now), you must preserve her, activate in rotation.
    On the other hand, if you find the pets dying too much compared to the past, you can thank who at zos thought it was a great idea to nerf them, there was a time their survivebility was great, e.g. the clanfear had a real meaning in solo content, that's something I can't forgive to developers, that was a truly useful skill worth to slot for certain situations that became useless, so much about nerfing something no one ever complained about, it wasn't about damage, just support, gj zos ***.
    lll
    "I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
    lll
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Before you get too excited extolling the many virtues of your Twilight Matriarch, this is a Necro'd thead.
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