"I heal, I don't do mechanics"

FrancisCrawford · July 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

"Damnit it jim, i am a doctor, not a mechanic."

Beat me to it! (And probably a lot of other folks as well.

)

FrancisCrawford · July 2017

nm

GreenhaloX · July 2017

Turelus wrote: »

I think a lot of people go into PUGs expecting everyone to know their tactics but never speaking of them until after an issue comes up.

The healer was being stubborn a stupid, but posting on the forums about it also kind of makes you look bad to a point. Better to just let bad PUGs happen and move on.

When I ran dungeons and any end game contents for the first time, I first checked out those on youtubes so I can get familiarize with the contents and its mechanics. That helped a lot before I dove right into any of those; particularly mechanics of trials. I recommend any new folks haven't done any dungeon or trial to do the same. It's the nature of the beast with PUG. You are running with random players, and some people are just either hard-headed, stubborn, or wouldn't like to admit that it's their first time. I've ran plenty of vet dungeons while pugging it and not really having an actual healer or tank at times, ha ha. Hey, it is always good to have a healer and one capable enough of such, but I mostly rely on my own self-heal.

When running PUG, you have to expect that not everyone may know what is going on. Even when you ask at the start, hey, has anyone not done this before? I have had runs where no one piped up, then we rolled through, and you get to see who does not know what he or she is doing. Well, you back off from the boss, and you can re-engage the same question you had brought up at the start. There were times when folks will listen, and there were times where some did not and even left. Whatever.. it is what it is. It is random queuing with random players. Not to go off the tangent too much, but what gets me, are those PUG calls for vMoL or any other vet trials in zone chats. Ha ha.. Not bashing it; I always say good luck to that.

Anyways, I don't think the OP posting this wouldn't make him look bad. It doesn't seem he is bashing or trashing the healer. I believe that this is what this forum is for. Someone has something that's bothering them and post such on it. Sure, why not.. as long as it doesn't harass or bash someone else (not always the case with feedback and replies, but hey, another nature of the beast with forums and social media, in general.) Although, there are always two sides to a story, it seems the situation bothered this OP enough somewhat that he (I'm assuming the OP is a he) has put a thread on it. Granted, I have posted a few rants myself on certain contents, but not really on another player. I have don't the time, and life is too short to post any issue, complain or rant on another player.

Massive_Stain · July 2017

That #puglife

ChunkyCat · July 2017

Healer rage quit?

Sounds like you're better off for it. Any reasonable person would have just played the mechanic.

Magdalina · July 2017

On mildly related note, the ragequit part reminds me of a pug vWGT once. We wiped because tank got portals and he was very obviously lacking dps to kill them - he went after them and just light attacked them to death...ended up overrun by ogrims and stuff.

Me: Tank, can you get some dps for portals please?
Tank: sorry bye *drops group*
Me: .....

/facepalm

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2017

As a healer Ive found if I stand very still and don't move, the monsters don't see me. So press your own damn buttons....

Mysteri0n · July 2017

could be worse during early access i was doing spindle with a group and the healer was handing out trash health pots thinking that was how to heal

Jailbirdy · July 2017

no mic, get booted.

If they want to play a social game, be social or they can go back to a single player game....

paulsimonps · July 2017

I think we can all summarize this as, the Healer the OP talked about either being Arrogant or ashamed and the tank being just as ignorant but simply never called out as such.

And lets just all agree that the Rez order in terms of who does it is #1 Damage Dealers #2 Tanks #3 Healers. And the order you do such a thing in regards to everything else is #1 MECHANICS #2 Rez #3 DPS or if you are a healer #1 MECHANICS #2 Healing #3 Rez. Tanks are #1 Mechanics and taunting #buffs/debuffs/off heals #3 Rez

As well, you can heal and do mechanics, and you can heal and do damage. But you should only deal damage if you are sure of your healing capabilities. When I heal easier content, aka easy veteran dungeons, I simply cast down 3 or 4 HoTs and then spam puncturing sweep and or Radiant Oppression. And for those that ask, yes I don't really give out buffs in that case but in easier scenarios my extra DPS gets things dead faster and less healing or buffing is required. BUT as I said, only do this if you are confident in your heals, if not, then stick to healing and buffing at all times until you are.

Luigi_Vampa · July 2017

Mysteri0n wrote: »

could be worse during early access i was doing spindle with a group and the healer was handing out trash health pots thinking that was how to heal

That is adorable.

Kurkikohtaus · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

And lets just all agree that the Rez order in terms of who does it is #1 Damage Dealers #2 Tanks #3 Healers. And the order you do such a thing in regards to everything else is #1 MECHANICS #2 Rez #3 DPS or if you are a healer #1 MECHANICS #2 Healing #3 Rez. Tanks are #1 Mechanics and taunting #buffs/debuffs/off heals #3 Rez

Interesting break-down, will make a note of this and try to gently remind people of these principles when needed.

FearAndPatching · July 2017

I had a healer in a PUG group for Wayrest 1 that would not heal and just would spam jabs. I asked him if he could at least throw a healing spring down every now and than. His response "I can't heal you all if I'm dead, I just jabs to keep myself alive".....

After him saying that he went on to tell me that he heals all end game content including VMOL and VHOF like 3 days after it. He than goes on to tell me he wears combat physician and lich to heal them and that his spell power is 1200 and how he has never saw a healer nor DPS with higher spell damage.

I tell him he he's really chasing spell damage than he should get some Julianos. His response "I've tried Julianos before but I don't like stamina sets".....

My point here is the stupidity but stubburness that they know everything and will not take advice is sky high in PUGs especially post morrowind. In my opinion with dungeons being nerfed so many times the only true Hard Mode anymore is activated by pugging.

stevepdodson_ESO888 · July 2017

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Still better than 'I don't heal, I just do mechanics'.

or..."me go stab-stab DD, I just blame others"

but seriously...in that specific scenario, the Tank could do it as he's built for going in red while the healer heals him through it, as at that moment there is no need to Tank the gorgeous Malubeth

idk · July 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

And lets just all agree that the Rez order in terms of who does it is #1 Damage Dealers #2 Tanks #3 Healers. And the order you do such a thing in regards to everything else is #1 MECHANICS #2 Rez #3 DPS or if you are a healer #1 MECHANICS #2 Healing #3 Rez. Tanks are #1 Mechanics and taunting #buffs/debuffs/off heals #3 Rez

Exactly!

timidobserver · July 2017

In that specific situation the healer should have hit the thing. However, there are a lot of mechanics in the game that healers are not expected to do.

Smackosynthesis · July 2017

I'm a healer and I do mechanics, because someone has to and also because some of them are fun.

Malacthulhu · July 2017

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

I would like to challenge the healer who typed this in group chat to stand up and debate with me.

The Situation

Time: approx 9am, Saturday July 1st 2017 (UTC)
Place: Veteran Wayrest II, not a pledge (random group finder)
Boss: Malubeth the Scourger, the one that lifts a group member and the 2 side altars must be deactivated

What went down

Malubeth lifts a DD. I (also DD) am on the right side of the room so I run up the steps to the right altar. The tank continues to tank on the central altar, the healer (cp 300+ if I recall) is to the left but does not deactivate the altar and the lifted DD dies. I ress the DD and the fight continues. Later, the same DD is lifted, same scenario plays out. I deactivate the right altar, the healer does nothing, lifted DD dies, I ress and we finish the fight without wiping. After the fight, I ask the healer in chat what he was doing, that he was standing right next to the altar but didn't do anything. To which he responded:

I heal, I don't do mechanics. I was too amazed to take a screenshot, alas. I typed something to the order of "are you serious?" At which point he ragequit (don't know why, as we didn't wipe), and sent me a nasty PM about my lack of intellect, literally comparing it to a baboon's posterior.

If you, dear healer, are on the forums, you will certainly recognize the situation by the thread title, please feel free to come in here and explain why you don't "do" mechanics, why you ragequit and why me raising this issue warrants the comparison that you made. Looking forward to your input and your thoughts on the matter.

Sounds like someone had a bad day op, all you can really do at this point is laugh at it. Thanks for sharing the story it was good for a laugh although I am sure frustrating at the time.

Dymence · July 2017

grim_tactics wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Almost as fun as running dungeons with a healer that will not attack, only casts heals and stands there until someone needs a heal.

Vote to Kick on anyone who refuses to do mechanics or can't DPS to some degree. If you're going to just stand there in a dungeon and refuse to attack you're worthless to the group.

In all serious endgame PvE content, the healer does no DPS. Their job is to heal, provide resources (orbs/shards), and provide buffs/debuffs.

Now, in dungeons, you can deviate from that and have a healer do some DPS. Or, with normal mode content or some of the easier dungeons, not even have a healer at all.

It really depends on your group and the content you run. If I'm running vCoS with good experienced players, we have more than enough DPS to not need the healer to do any damage, and we would much rather have the healer do the kinds of things necessary to support proper endgame DPS.

But if I'm PUGing a vet dungeon, with inexperienced DPS who do little damage, then giving them buffs would be a waste, and the healer would be much better off providing DPS instead.

This isn't WoW.

There is no reason for a healer to stand back, wait on someone to need a heal, and that's it. Any healer not also doing damage or mechanics in ESO should get the insta-boot from the group. Goes for trials also.

The only time I could even imagine a healer not being able to also DPS is if they're constantly having to keep some guy who is too low for the content alive.

Not trying to be "that guy" but I've dealt with too many terrible players that have no idea what they're doing in this game that the thought of some random healer saying he/she doesn't DPS or do mechanics because he/she is a healer just strikes a nerve.

You're right on one account, there's no reason for a healer to stand back and wait for someone to need a heal in a trial. In a trial, the healer is permanently healing and supporting the group. Definitely not doing DPS.

Diminish · July 2017

Griffe wrote: »

Ruins of Mazzatun. "I don't go to the blue bubble when I have the red circle around me, I heal."
White Gold Tower. "I don't close portals, I heal."

Have fun healing RoM when you need to destroy the statue, and all your skills disappear. Lol

Diminish · July 2017

Ep1kMalware wrote: »

Gargath wrote: »

Best way is ask everyone before each boss if they know what to do, if they know boss mechanics. Quick runs in random groups are the worst. Then you will see what you can expect. In case you see someone might not understand their role, ask for 2 minutes time and explain as fast as possible what must be done.
Better than asking the healer in chat what he was doing after a fight, is to ask him before or during the fight to activate the altar. If he refuses or just won't do it by purpose - vote kick for him and put to ignore list.

Must be a pc thing. On ps4 nobody respons, tanks dw and spam light attacks, and healers are all narcissistic *** with sociopathic tendencies. They also hurt the team more than help.

On console I recomend playing a solid performance dd build and wither queing as a tank/healer. You'll only get 1 of the toxic group members amd 2 dds pulling 5k dps. So, prepare to carry.

Seriously since morrowind you have to carry almost every group. Tanks/healers arent tanking/healing so take one out of the equation and live with the other.

This is what I built my mdk for.... Good healers are a rare commodity on PS4 when running with a PUG. I've come across some good tanks though with the exception of that sorc tank last night from group finder in ICP, you were terrible.

StormWylf · July 2017

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

ToxicPAWS wrote: »

I don't think your calling out the Healer here will be answered,

I will give the healer some credit, he saw the topic and PM'd me.

Curious how that discussion went.

Roovin · July 2017

Lol at anyone defending the healer.

Artis · July 2017

max_only wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

mvffins wrote: »

I wouldn't be upset about him not deactivating the altar, but I would definitely be upset if I'm the one going around rezzing people. Rezzing is def a healer role in 99 out of 100 situations.

Nope healer is the last person to do the rezzing. DPS should rezz and if both DPS are down the tank should aggro boss and then rez one DPS so they can rez the other DPS. The healer needs to heal whoever is rezzing they can't do that if they are the one rezzing.

Well, that's just wrong. It's only true in progress runs or runs that are very tough. In good, strong groups - and especially in 4 man dungeons - it's the healer who must rezz so that the group doesn't lose even more DPS. Because that can mean the difference between having and not having to deal with adds (or getting overwhelmed) or mechanics.

Depending on the fight of course. If there's a lot of incoming damage and heals are indeed needed - which is not the case in 90% dungeons - then others should rez. And again, if possible and not too much risk - it shouldn't be a DPS.

Nope. You got it the other way around. Four people in this thread alone have explained why it's the dd's job.

No, they are wrong. It's ONLY a dps's job in very hard fights or with very weak groups.

Making a DPS rez in, say, ICP or older dungeons = risking to not have enough DPS. But sure man, you do you. I'll keep doing it my way and expect the same from my groups. While it is possible that you're better and cleared more, I'm 90% sure that the opposite is the case and my way is proven correct in practice. Obviously, you won't use it in trials or maybe last 2 dlc dungeons, but everywhere else? You're wasting time if your damage dealers rez. In old 4man dungeons there's absolutely no reason for a dps to rez.

kuro-dono · July 2017

white gold tower is great, that there is indeed boss that require true skill, and ability to communicate with the team, and ways to adapt, also if you got someone with brains, they will quick learn that you can manipulate it so that tank will NEVER get portal closing duty.

that boss mechanics is one of the most impressive i have known. another cool is the maw of lorkhaj boss where you need to use your brain too, BUT, that on normal is quite forgiving as you can complete it without paying attension or using your brain.

ps: with true skill i am not referring to these omfg how awesome i am dd:s who pull 100k dps. but ppl who understands to pay attension to their surroundings, avoid aoe shite, avoid running front of the boss when she is on blueflame mode etc.

IronCrystal · July 2017

grim_tactics wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

grim_tactics wrote: »

Almost as fun as running dungeons with a healer that will not attack, only casts heals and stands there until someone needs a heal.

Vote to Kick on anyone who refuses to do mechanics or can't DPS to some degree. If you're going to just stand there in a dungeon and refuse to attack you're worthless to the group.

In all serious endgame PvE content, the healer does no DPS. Their job is to heal, provide resources (orbs/shards), and provide buffs/debuffs.

Now, in dungeons, you can deviate from that and have a healer do some DPS. Or, with normal mode content or some of the easier dungeons, not even have a healer at all.

It really depends on your group and the content you run. If I'm running vCoS with good experienced players, we have more than enough DPS to not need the healer to do any damage, and we would much rather have the healer do the kinds of things necessary to support proper endgame DPS.

But if I'm PUGing a vet dungeon, with inexperienced DPS who do little damage, then giving them buffs would be a waste, and the healer would be much better off providing DPS instead.

This isn't WoW.

There is no reason for a healer to stand back, wait on someone to need a heal, and that's it. Any healer not also doing damage or mechanics in ESO should get the insta-boot from the group. Goes for trials also.

The only time I could even imagine a healer not being able to also DPS is if they're constantly having to keep some guy who is too low for the content alive.

Not trying to be "that guy" but I've dealt with too many terrible players that have no idea what they're doing in this game that the thought of some random healer saying he/she doesn't DPS or do mechanics because he/she is a healer just strikes a nerve.

You are right. This isn't WoW. The healers in ESO are far more active than in that game. But they are busy buffing other players, not dealing any miniscule damage they can output.

Also, there is a large difference between PUG runs with randoms and an organized trial run.

O_LYKOS · July 2017

Healer needs to quit and uninstall his game if that's his attitude.

ziaodix · July 2017

As an end game healer, I just ignore mechanics, I'm clearly challenged in that area, and spam healing springs. I also stand as close as possible to the DK tank with 50k health because I know they gonna give me igneous shield.

idk · July 2017

Artis wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

mvffins wrote: »

I wouldn't be upset about him not deactivating the altar, but I would definitely be upset if I'm the one going around rezzing people. Rezzing is def a healer role in 99 out of 100 situations.

Nope healer is the last person to do the rezzing. DPS should rezz and if both DPS are down the tank should aggro boss and then rez one DPS so they can rez the other DPS. The healer needs to heal whoever is rezzing they can't do that if they are the one rezzing.

Well, that's just wrong. It's only true in progress runs or runs that are very tough. In good, strong groups - and especially in 4 man dungeons - it's the healer who must rezz so that the group doesn't lose even more DPS. Because that can mean the difference between having and not having to deal with adds (or getting overwhelmed) or mechanics.

Depending on the fight of course. If there's a lot of incoming damage and heals are indeed needed - which is not the case in 90% dungeons - then others should rez. And again, if possible and not too much risk - it shouldn't be a DPS.

Nope. You got it the other way around. Four people in this thread alone have explained why it's the dd's job.

No, they are wrong. It's ONLY a dps's job in very hard fights or with very weak groups.

Making a DPS rez in, say, ICP or older dungeons = risking to not have enough DPS. But sure man, you do you. I'll keep doing it my way and expect the same from my groups. While it is possible that you're better and cleared more, I'm 90% sure that the opposite is the case and my way is proven correct in practice. Obviously, you won't use it in trials or maybe last 2 dlc dungeons, but everywhere else? You're wasting time if your damage dealers rez. In old 4man dungeons there's absolutely no reason for a dps to rez.

I think Paul put it well in his post on this page. He stated priorities in a great order and in the end it is everyone's job, just for some it is a higher priority.

I will quote the related part here.

paulsimonps wrote: »

And lets just all agree that the Rez order in terms of who does it is #1 Damage Dealers #2 Tanks #3 Healers. And the order you do such a thing in regards to everything else is #1 MECHANICS #2 Rez #3 DPS or if you are a healer #1 MECHANICS #2 Healing #3 Rez. Tanks are #1 Mechanics and taunting #buffs/debuffs/off heals #3 Rez

Artis · July 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

mvffins wrote: »

I wouldn't be upset about him not deactivating the altar, but I would definitely be upset if I'm the one going around rezzing people. Rezzing is def a healer role in 99 out of 100 situations.

Nope healer is the last person to do the rezzing. DPS should rezz and if both DPS are down the tank should aggro boss and then rez one DPS so they can rez the other DPS. The healer needs to heal whoever is rezzing they can't do that if they are the one rezzing.

Well, that's just wrong. It's only true in progress runs or runs that are very tough. In good, strong groups - and especially in 4 man dungeons - it's the healer who must rezz so that the group doesn't lose even more DPS. Because that can mean the difference between having and not having to deal with adds (or getting overwhelmed) or mechanics.

Depending on the fight of course. If there's a lot of incoming damage and heals are indeed needed - which is not the case in 90% dungeons - then others should rez. And again, if possible and not too much risk - it shouldn't be a DPS.

Nope. You got it the other way around. Four people in this thread alone have explained why it's the dd's job.

No, they are wrong. It's ONLY a dps's job in very hard fights or with very weak groups.

Making a DPS rez in, say, ICP or older dungeons = risking to not have enough DPS. But sure man, you do you. I'll keep doing it my way and expect the same from my groups. While it is possible that you're better and cleared more, I'm 90% sure that the opposite is the case and my way is proven correct in practice. Obviously, you won't use it in trials or maybe last 2 dlc dungeons, but everywhere else? You're wasting time if your damage dealers rez. In old 4man dungeons there's absolutely no reason for a dps to rez.

I think Paul put it well in his post on this page. He stated priorities in a great order and in the end it is everyone's job, just for some it is a higher priority.

I will quote the related part here.

paulsimonps wrote: »

And lets just all agree that the Rez order in terms of who does it is #1 Damage Dealers #2 Tanks #3 Healers. And the order you do such a thing in regards to everything else is #1 MECHANICS #2 Rez #3 DPS or if you are a healer #1 MECHANICS #2 Healing #3 Rez. Tanks are #1 Mechanics and taunting #buffs/debuffs/off heals #3 Rez

That's not entirely correct, and that's my point. It only works like that in trials and latest 2 dungeons. I disagree that the order is #1 DPS #2Tanks #3 healers. Not even talking that a tank must be aware of what boss does and doesn't have enough time to rez before he has to block in hard dungeons+everyone should be able to shield and be okay for a bit with the HoTs running = healer comes before tank very often, depending on the fight. Even in hard dungeons rezzing tank might not end well. But there's even more if we're talking about old dungeons.

Everywhere else (old dungeons) DPS doesn't rez the other DPS if he dies. DPS will rez a healer if a tank has to watch out for heavy attacks and such and has to block or roll - then he can't reliably rez. If a DPS dies and there's not much damage incoming - which is the case for pretty much all dungeons except for the ones mentioned above, so definitely the case for the fight in the OP - then a healer or tank should rez that second DPS depending on mechanics.

Don't forget, you are talking about fights that last just a few minutes and have skippable mechanics. Losing even more DPS there is simply not efficient. I seriously don't see WTF a healer or tank would do in WS1 while DPS is rezzing. Healing him when the adds touch him? Or heavy attack him while he's rezzing and interrupt the rez , so he has to keep rezzing while he's immune? Or, you know, a dps could kill that add while the healer is rezzing. Tank is self-sufficient, and DPS has a shield.

Not saying you can't do it the way he says. Whatever works for you. But saying that we can agree that it's the rez order? No, no we can't. That's not the most efficient or even safe order in most dungeons. In most dungeons having a healer or tank doing their thing full-time is overkill and a waste. The proof to that is that you can complete those dungeons WITHOUT a dedicated healer, for example.