Warden Level 50 - Disapointed - Average at All
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »AzraelKrieg wrote: »Jack of all trades, master of none is the warden.
This. If you DPS you're just a gimped sorc. If you tank you are just a lesser DK. Healing is pretty good.
Their role is that they are more flexible than most. If I was a sorc I couldn't switch and have a full bar of class healing abilities on the back bar.
So, overall it's not everything I wanted it to be (a great singular coherent role) but it's alright. Flexibility has value in itself. More than a few dungeon boss fights as the DPS I've been able to save the day by swapping to healing and back in a flash. Can't do that as effectively with a sorc or NB.
Flexibility has zero value in endgame. You need a specialized role.
That's due to ZoS trial design being dps races. The warden class is a class designed ahead of its time. ZoS needs end game content that promotes support builds.
You need 2 tanks and 2 healers in trials. It just so happens that DK and templar are better at those two roles.0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This is dreadful to hear especially since other classes were 'nerfed', I mean adjusted, to allow the Warden to shine. Even adjusted down, the Templar and Sorcerer are still powerful - says a lot.
Saying the other classes were adjusted to allow warden to shine is a massive assumption on your part - this is what people thought was happening. It hasn't happened. Warden is kind of mediocre. Sorry to spoil the illusion that nerfs were to promote some uber "P2W" class, but that hasn't happened, people will have to find something else to complain about.
All that complaining that the Warden was going to be P2W has turned into complaints that it isn't P2W. This place is unbelievable sometimes...PC/EU DC1 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »That's due to ZoS trial design being dps races. The warden class is a class designed ahead of its time. ZoS needs end game content that promotes support builds.
Something being a DPS race shouldn't be an issue in regard to support builds (at least for raids/trials), in most games that have support builds/classes adding one support class to a raid normally increases the group DPS by more than the difference between the support builds DPS and the DPS class you are replacing.
The problem in ESO is that they've suddenly tacked on a "support class" to a game where support in various forms has already been split up amongst the existing classes, so whilst warden may in some ways be the best at support it really does not offer enough above the other classes or increase group performance enough to warrant a place, in the way say Captain in LOTRO, bard/archon in Rift, etc did.
The only way to make Warden actually needed for raids/trials as support is to either to invent some ridiculous overpowered buff that greatly increases group DPS that is unique to warden or trim back the support skills of other classes, so warden becomes 'The Suppot Class', rather than simply a class that is strong at support, but I can imagine the crying over that...
That is the problem with games that let classes do everything to some extent and then on top of that let them mix and match rather than forcing them to go one way or the other, class balance is basically terrible when compared to games where classes have hard roles and ESO has only managed to some extent because it has had so few classes.Edited by Sylosi on July 1, 2017 12:06PM0 -
MarbleQuiche✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Magicka warden is the weakest DPS class in the game, by a country mile. They are like 5-10k DPS behind the other classes in parses. And they need to haul around a useless single target ult to even get those numbers.
Stamina DPS is the one that's fine.
If you're looking at the class in isolation, sure. I'm not. It's all about team dynamics for me, which believe is what I wrote?Edited by MarbleQuiche on July 1, 2017 12:03PMCurrently obsessed with battlegrounds. Spamming here between rounds. Sometimes, when forums are particularly good, I skip ballerina around*
*autocorrected nonsense, but it sounds amusing enough to me that I've taken up ballet0 -
Bryong9ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭Play what you enjoy playing, It's that simple. Forget what others think.
Who cares if you're not top heals or top dps. If you are having fun playing your class you've won.3 -
supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭The problem with warden was that it is only available via a paywall and most of us saw the outcry from many folks on here, reddit and elsewhere that it was going to be an OP build and accusing ZOS of applying p2w. It makes sense that the class isn't overtly powerful on release. Imagine the furore if the warden was as powerful as a Magsorc (or even more powerful), right now the class is in a good place considering it is only recently released. I'm positive there will be tweaks to improve its performance in areas, but what you need to do is put yourselves in the position of ZOS who's public image would have been skating on relatively thin ice if wardens much anticipated release was surrounded by controversy that it was an overtly powerful instant p2w class.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »So yo all judge on one guys post who doesn't even reveal his build and rotation.
Just wait till you see a Warden spec'd out by a good theory crafter who knows how to play a good rotation.
All the top raiders unanimously agree that warden is junk. They don't get picked for any leader board runs.
And of course being a good little sheep you go with what they say.
Wardens are doing just fine in PvP.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »So yo all judge on one guys post who doesn't even reveal his build and rotation.
Just wait till you see a Warden spec'd out by a good theory crafter who knows how to play a good rotation.
All the top raiders unanimously agree that warden is junk. They don't get picked for any leader board runs.
And of course being a good little sheep you go with what they say.
Wardens are doing just fine in PvP.
PVP and PVE are two very different things.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 1, 2017 6:13PM1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This is dreadful to hear especially since other classes were 'nerfed', I mean adjusted, to allow the Warden to shine. Even adjusted down, the Templar and Sorcerer are still powerful - says a lot.
Saying the other classes were adjusted to allow warden to shine is a massive assumption on your part - this is what people thought was happening. It hasn't happened. Warden is kind of mediocre. Sorry to spoil the illusion that nerfs were to promote some uber "P2W" class, but that hasn't happened, people will have to find something else to complain about.
All that complaining that the Warden was going to be P2W has turned into complaints that it isn't P2W. This place is unbelievable sometimes...
We just want a useful PVE class. Warden is the worst class in the game right now.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »ZOS has acknowledged that the magicka warden is underperforming. They'll be tweaking them. They already buffed them once on the 22nd, but they need more help (DPS is still lagging behind the other classes).
Oh, really? nice
. I will create a warden then later, thank you.
This was 3 ESO live episodes ago now.
All we've gotten so far is a minor buff to magicka warden DPS (and a minor nerf to stamina... lol). Either ZOS are still working on it or they lied to us. I'm hoping it's the former.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 1, 2017 6:17PM0 -
kuro-dono✭✭✭✭Got to 50, got my gear, not best in slot but ok, Necro / War Maiden, all Yellow, stats look ok.
BUT, my Templar has better healing utility than the Warden, My Sorc has Better DPS.
Warden seems average at both, so why would anyone in a raid or even a Vet Dungeon choose a Warden.
It's fun to play but does not compete with the others.
Is it me, 'LTP the class' or is anyone else feeling the same ?
it was meant to be nonmeta fun class. not adhd minmax hiil or dd.
casuals favorite.0 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭Why in the hell are we worried about buffing the dps on a support class.. the warden has utililty over damage. Buff its damage and the warden will be to good. Pvp in particular. You see pve players whine and cry about abilities/gear not doing enough damage until they get buffed then the pvp crowd comes in, cries and whine about the damage along with the utility and a nerf comes back its way in 6 months time. Setting us right back to this point here.. although by that point usually most of the crying is gone because the people have seen how wrong they were about certain things.
I really don't get it.. who creates a warden with the idea that the class can compete with top dps when thats not even the identity of the class. Play how you want is true to a degree.. at some point you are going to gimp yourself. ZoS cant make every class solid at everything. If the warden gets a huge damage boost I want the utility to match it on my other classes.. but guess what that wont happen.
This buff whatever it may be is a bad idea.1 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Warden in PvP in stupid strong, I would say strongest class in my opinionTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
Stiltz✭✭✭I don't know. I've got a maxed out warden healer and he's as good, if not better, of a healer than my Templar main.0
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Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭For PVP I now run a magicka Warden and it makes me feel godly at times. I have 49k magicka, 21k health and 10k stam with 2650 spell power when buffed. I am running 5 Vicious Death, 5 Necropotence and 1 piece of Molag Kena with a destruction and resto staff. Before I run in, I pop bird of prey 10% bonus damage, arctic blast (10% damage redux) and my Betty netch. I proc deep fissure, use SCR and hit with a force pulse (when unmitigated this combines for 45k in damage) this leads to many 1 hits. For mobs, I use elemental rage ultimate so I can stand back and weave in a force pulse and SCR. This procs visous death witch takes out a ton of people. I could dual wield, which I have two VD swords, however you lose the ability to weave in light and heavy attacks to build ultimate from a range- and the destruction ultimate is a must with this build.
Bottom line is while this build may not be for everyone, it has made this class fun to play and I feel is very viable. I use magelight on both bars, with harness on front and healing ward on back.
Front bar:
Force pulse
SCR
Deep fissur
Inner Light (had fun collecting all the lore books again for the 7% bonus)
Harness Magicka
Back Bar(buffs)
Betty netch
Bird of prey
Artic Blast
Inner light
Healing ward
Feel free to provide feedback
This guy clearly needs a buff.0 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden in PvP in stupid strong, I would say strongest class in my opinion
That's the worst part. Warden might be really strong in pvp, but remain garbage in pve, since ZOS is stubbornly doesn't want to admit their own mistake and balance pvp and pve separately.Profanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
Luigi_Vampa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »This is dreadful to hear especially since other classes were 'nerfed', I mean adjusted, to allow the Warden to shine. Even adjusted down, the Templar and Sorcerer are still powerful - says a lot.
Saying the other classes were adjusted to allow warden to shine is a massive assumption on your part - this is what people thought was happening. It hasn't happened. Warden is kind of mediocre. Sorry to spoil the illusion that nerfs were to promote some uber "P2W" class, but that hasn't happened, people will have to find something else to complain about.
All that complaining that the Warden was going to be P2W has turned into complaints that it isn't P2W. This place is unbelievable sometimes...
We just want a useful PVE class. Warden is the worst class in the game right now.
The thing is if the Warden becomes the best at anything, Tank, heal, or, DPS people will cry P2W. They are what they were said to be. They are a jack of all trades class. This makes them decent at PvP where you need to be able to do a lot of different things, but trash at PvE where you need to min/max.PC/EU DC0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »This is dreadful to hear especially since other classes were 'nerfed', I mean adjusted, to allow the Warden to shine. Even adjusted down, the Templar and Sorcerer are still powerful - says a lot.
Saying the other classes were adjusted to allow warden to shine is a massive assumption on your part - this is what people thought was happening. It hasn't happened. Warden is kind of mediocre. Sorry to spoil the illusion that nerfs were to promote some uber "P2W" class, but that hasn't happened, people will have to find something else to complain about.
All that complaining that the Warden was going to be P2W has turned into complaints that it isn't P2W. This place is unbelievable sometimes...
We just want a useful PVE class. Warden is the worst class in the game right now.
The thing is if the Warden becomes the best at anything, Tank, heal, or, DPS people will cry P2W. They are what they were said to be. They are a jack of all trades class. This makes them decent at PvP where you need to be able to do a lot of different things, but trash at PvE where you need to min/max.
It doesn't need to become the best at anything. Just make it viable at everything.
Right now, it's simply not a viable DPS, not even close. ~35k DPS with bear and ~30k with destro ult is abysmal when every other class can parse around 40k.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 2, 2017 4:44AM0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why in the hell are we worried about buffing the dps on a support class.. the warden has utililty over damage. Buff its damage and the warden will be to good. Pvp in particular. You see pve players whine and cry about abilities/gear not doing enough damage until they get buffed then the pvp crowd comes in, cries and whine about the damage along with the utility and a nerf comes back its way in 6 months time. Setting us right back to this point here.. although by that point usually most of the crying is gone because the people have seen how wrong they were about certain things.
I really don't get it.. who creates a warden with the idea that the class can compete with top dps when thats not even the identity of the class. Play how you want is true to a degree.. at some point you are going to gimp yourself. ZoS cant make every class solid at everything. If the warden gets a huge damage boost I want the utility to match it on my other classes.. but guess what that wont happen.
This buff whatever it may be is a bad idea.
There is no such thing as a support class in this game. Every class is designed to fill every role. That's been the design philosophy of this game since day one and it hasn't changed.
DK and Templar are also "support" classes by your logic, yet they can pump out competitive DPS.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 2, 2017 4:42AM0 -
kromegas✭✭✭For PVP I now run a magicka Warden and it makes me feel godly at times. I have 49k magicka, 21k health and 10k stam with 2650 spell power when buffed. I am running 5 Vicious Death, 5 Necropotence and 1 piece of Molag Kena with a destruction and resto staff. Before I run in, I pop bird of prey 10% bonus damage, arctic blast (10% damage redux) and my Betty netch. I proc deep fissure, use SCR and hit with a force pulse (when unmitigated this combines for 45k in damage) this leads to many 1 hits. For mobs, I use elemental rage ultimate so I can stand back and weave in a force pulse and SCR. This procs visous death witch takes out a ton of people. I could dual wield, which I have two VD swords, however you lose the ability to weave in light and heavy attacks to build ultimate from a range- and the destruction ultimate is a must with this build.
Bottom line is while this build may not be for everyone, it has made this class fun to play and I feel is very viable. I use magelight on both bars, with harness on front and healing ward on back.
Front bar:
Force pulse
SCR
Deep fissur
Inner Light (had fun collecting all the lore books again for the 7% bonus)
Harness Magicka
Back Bar(buffs)
Betty netch
Bird of prey
Artic Blast
Inner light
Healing ward
Feel free to provide feedback
This guy clearly needs a buff.
Please elietst, enlighten me with your thorough and comprehensive skill set. In a previous post you complain about perceived "elietists," and then you have the balls to bash me. At least I am here sharing ideas instead of being a stuck up four year old hiding behind a computer screen.
I normally run a sorc, two manned numerous vet dungeons, along with being top 5 in pvp on Xbox NA. Trying to come up with something viable with the warden, and it has worked well for me. Thanks for all of your "helpful" input.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The people claiming Warden would be OP were making some idiotic arguments.
The main argument was that since the classes we are familiar with were getting nerfed, Warden is P2W. Huh? Without a baseline for the strength of the Warden, changing to other classes tell us nothing about the Warden's relative strength.
Unfortunately, people were making these arguments because they had something insightful to say. They seemed to have an axe to grind and wanted to throw around bad words like P2W.1 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭I have to say that Warden is really fun class to play as someone say the are jack of all trades you can heal little, tank little and DPS little the are suppose to be support class and if anyone has gone to make this class think that got to be like DK, Templar, Sorcerer or even a nightblade then that person to really mistaking.
I personally love that we have got hybrid class and honest love play my Warden for at the end of day if should be fun playing the classes If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I thought I was good with my magSorc in BGs, then I brought my MagDen, I felt like a power house.
I primarily PvP so the whole dps in PvE thing is alright by me, plus I can do vet dungeons solo fairly easily with him.
I much prefer my Warden over NB0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[quoteI have to say that Warden is really fun class to play as someone say the are jack of all trades you can heal little, tank little and DPS little the are suppose to be support class and if anyone has gone to make this class think that got to be like DK, Templar, Sorcerer or even a nightblade then that person to really mistaking.
I personally love that we have got hybrid class and honest love play my Warden for at the end of day if should be fun playing the classes
Why can't a class be fun and viable?0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I thought I was good with my magSorc in BGs, then I brought my MagDen, I felt like a power house.
I primarily PvP so the whole dps in PvE thing is alright by me, plus I can do vet dungeons solo fairly easily with him.
I much prefer my Warden over NB
You can solo vet dungeons with any class. All you need is harness magicka (or any other shield).
I have more fun with my warden than I did with my templar. But my templar *** all over my warden in terms of actual numbers.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 2, 2017 5:36AM0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭I dont understand this frustration.. For me it was logically that the warden cant be on the top of DPS... Magicka Warden has a bonus with using Froststaffs... This is for tanks.
The heal from warden is healing over time... You can use the healingstaff skills like everybody else, but his ulty is really nice!
Really i dont think, there is much reason to flame it...DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont understand this frustration.. For me it was logically that the warden cant be on the top of DPS... Magicka Warden has a bonus with using Froststaffs... This is for tanks.
The heal from warden is healing over time... You can use the healingstaff skills like everybody else, but his ulty is really nice!
Really i dont think, there is much reason to flame it...
It's 5-10k DPS behind the other classes. Nobody is asking for it to be top DPS, but to be able to parse ~40k (all the other classes can do this). Right now, warden DPS is in the 30-35k range. Every class needs to be viable in every role. It makes no sense that warden is the only class that can't DPS. Both templar and DK were designed as "support" classes, yet they can both pull competitive DPS numbers.
Making classes viable for tanking or healing is a bit more difficult because it is based on class skills (therefore, you have to re-design entire skills to make a class viable in these roles). Making every class viable in the DPS role is easy because you just tweak numbers. So far, the 4 other classes have always been viable in the DPS role. Even when people moaned about NB being underpowered, it was only 1-2k behind the other classes.Edited by MLGProPlayer on July 2, 2017 5:57AM1 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭For PVP I now run a magicka Warden and it makes me feel godly at times. I have 49k magicka, 21k health and 10k stam with 2650 spell power when buffed. I am running 5 Vicious Death, 5 Necropotence and 1 piece of Molag Kena with a destruction and resto staff. Before I run in, I pop bird of prey 10% bonus damage, arctic blast (10% damage redux) and my Betty netch. I proc deep fissure, use SCR and hit with a force pulse (when unmitigated this combines for 45k in damage) this leads to many 1 hits. For mobs, I use elemental rage ultimate so I can stand back and weave in a force pulse and SCR. This procs visous death witch takes out a ton of people. I could dual wield, which I have two VD swords, however you lose the ability to weave in light and heavy attacks to build ultimate from a range- and the destruction ultimate is a must with this build.
Bottom line is while this build may not be for everyone, it has made this class fun to play and I feel is very viable. I use magelight on both bars, with harness on front and healing ward on back.
Front bar:
Force pulse
SCR
Deep fissur
Inner Light (had fun collecting all the lore books again for the 7% bonus)
Harness Magicka
Back Bar(buffs)
Betty netch
Bird of prey
Artic Blast
Inner light
Healing ward
Feel free to provide feedback
This guy clearly needs a buff.
Please elietst, enlighten me with your thorough and comprehensive skill set. In a previous post you complain about perceived "elietists," and then you have the balls to bash me. At least I am here sharing ideas instead of being a stuck up four year old hiding behind a computer screen.
I normally run a sorc, two manned numerous vet dungeons, along with being top 5 in pvp on Xbox NA. Trying to come up with something viable with the warden, and it has worked well for me. Thanks for all of your "helpful" input.
Lol you misinterpreted what I was trying to say..
I was using sarcasm to show how ridiculous it was for people to be asking for buffs with the build you listed because it sounds good.Edited by Smmokkee on July 2, 2017 6:00AM1 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have to say that Warden is really fun class to play as someone say the are jack of all trades you can heal little, tank little and DPS little the are suppose to be support class and if anyone has gone to make this class think that got to be like DK, Templar, Sorcerer or even a nightblade then that person to really mistaking.
I personally love that we have got hybrid class and honest love play my Warden for at the end of day if should be fun playing the classes
There is a damage dealer, tank and healer role. I don't see any *** utility role anywhere.
Also, for all you numbskulls, I hope you'll get kicked from party after queuing as damage dealer warden even before the run starts. And yeah, this is already happening to people.
Edited by Anhedonie on July 2, 2017 6:22AMProfanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have to say that Warden is really fun class to play as someone say the are jack of all trades you can heal little, tank little and DPS little the are suppose to be support class and if anyone has gone to make this class think that got to be like DK, Templar, Sorcerer or even a nightblade then that person to really mistaking.
I personally love that we have got hybrid class and honest love play my Warden for at the end of day if should be fun playing the classes
There is a damage dealer, tank and healer role. I don't see any *** utility role anywhere.
Also, for all you numbskulls, I hope you'll get kicked from party after queuing as damage dealer warden even before the run starts. And yeah, this is already happening to people.
The only people who think warden is fine are:
- PvPers
- Casuals
- Support players
Anyone who has played the class and run it through an actual DPS test will tell you it's severely underpowered (like not even in the same stratosphere as the other classes).1