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PVP battlegrounfs yet 2 game modes actually pvping is useless.

leepalmer95
leepalmer95
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Both ctf the domination need kills to add secondary to the score. Even something like 5 points per kill would make it useful.

Currently in both gamemodes if you actually pvp and fight people you put yourself to such a disadvantage, you fight for 30s and the other team has took 2 flag or captures 3 points and gained 100~ points.

Yet i can go 15-0 and gain no actual benefit from those kills while people can play flag simulator and win with 0-8? I know the game modes are pure kills but come on, reward me for actually pvping.
PS4 EU DC

Current CP : 756+

I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • incite
    incite
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    "We take out the battle out of battlegrounds because we can. Oh and dont forget to check out the crownstore, they're full of bargains!" -zos
    PC EU

    no1 knows me, no1 cares about me but sshh, don't tell



  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    OP Have you tunnel vision? Trying playing the mode and with your team! :smiley:

    Your straight up, face to face PvP skills are still tested in both CTF and DOM. For example, destroying a relic carrier or your opponent on a flag.

    Think about why kills shouldn't give points in these modes?
    away from eso until they add ranked deathmatch bgs
    [EU PC] @fake_remedy
    Discord: fake_remedy#3254
    Twitch
    YouTube
  • Trashkan
    Trashkan
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    Yeah I would kill the relic holder if he wasn't immovable and 4 times faster oh yeah and when they gap close the whole way home that's the best. I am litterally 50 feet away from my relic holder and they are at there base already.
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
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    Sounds rough.
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    Trashkan wrote: »
    Yeah I would kill the relic holder if he wasn't immovable and 4 times faster oh yeah and when they gap close the whole way home that's the best. I am litterally 50 feet away from my relic holder and they are at there base already.

    Honestly can hear the effort and pain in your words. :neutral: 100% there is a counter play which you and so your team can do.
    away from eso until they add ranked deathmatch bgs
    [EU PC] @fake_remedy
    Discord: fake_remedy#3254
    Twitch
    YouTube
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    PvP happens in CTF if all 3 teams are playing competently. If one team decides to ignore the objectives, PvP goes out the window.
    Edited by timidobserver on June 26, 2017 3:23PM
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Trashkan wrote: »
    Yeah I would kill the relic holder if he wasn't immovable and 4 times faster oh yeah and when they gap close the whole way home that's the best. I am litterally 50 feet away from my relic holder and they are at there base already.

    Honestly can hear the effort and pain in your words. :neutral: 100% there is a counter play which you and so your team can do.

    No you can't.

    Orc/ cowards 28k hp, imov pot into s&b ult? Gl with that, your magicka team mates become useless instantly.

    You can't do anything.


    Oh and in domination? If your team actively engages another team and you don't wipe them within 10s and instead it turns into a good fight?

    You lose because the 3rd team of people who are 0-5 or 1-6 cap all the other points and your 150 points behind before you know it. It doesn't matter if you go 10-0 you gain nothing from kills.

    Why do you gain nothing from kills in Player vs Player. Thats the main point of pvp.
    Edited by leepalmer95 on June 27, 2017 4:50AM
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Moglijuana
    Moglijuana
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    Trashkan wrote: »
    Yeah I would kill the relic holder if he wasn't immovable and 4 times faster oh yeah and when they gap close the whole way home that's the best. I am litterally 50 feet away from my relic holder and they are at there base already.

    Honestly can hear the effort and pain in your words. :neutral: 100% there is a counter play which you and so your team can do.

    No you can't.

    Orc/ cowards 28k hp, imov pot into s&b ult? Gl with that, your magicka team mates become useless instantly.

    You can't do anything.


    Oh and in domination? If your team actively engages another team and you don't wipe them within 10s and instead it turns into a good fight?

    You lose because the 3rd team of people who are 0-5 or 1-6 cap all the other points and your 150 points behind before you know it. It doesn't matter if you go 10-0 you gain nothing from kills.

    Why do you gain nothing from kills in Player vs Player. Thats the main point of pvp.

    Also in CTF, if you dodge roll into an enemy flag you can continue to use streak/mist form/cloak etc. Makes for a very stale game.
    Ps4 - PSN:jdmaya
    Dårth Måul (AD- Dunmer Mag DK) Legate
    Latest Vid:https://youtu.be/WZp_IdyrL6Q
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    @leepalmer95 you are looking at the tactics of these modes wrong.

    @Moglijuana Yeah this has to be an exploit. I've reported it.
    away from eso until they add ranked deathmatch bgs
    [EU PC] @fake_remedy
    Discord: fake_remedy#3254
    Twitch
    YouTube
  • Moglijuana
    Moglijuana
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    @leepalmer95 you are looking at the tactics of these modes wrong.

    @Moglijuana Yeah this has to be an exploit. I've reported it.

    It IS an exploit and they have known about it for a while. But they probably won't fix it until more people start abusing it...seems that's the only way to fix things around here which is kind of sad.
    Ps4 - PSN:jdmaya
    Dårth Måul (AD- Dunmer Mag DK) Legate
    Latest Vid:https://youtu.be/WZp_IdyrL6Q
  • Trashkan
    Trashkan
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    It's not that the game modes are completely terrible just some balance in scoring and don't make me play ctf I am a mag dk and want nothing to do with it.
  • DDemon
    DDemon
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    I wish you could pick game modes really, I would go for deathmatch only.

    And really, I wish BG were open to EVERYONE, so there would be a larger pool of players to play with.
  • Fake Remedy
    Fake Remedy
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    These small scale pvp game modes have been around in mmorpgs for at least 8 years.

    Not beating around the bush here if it wasn't for the currently shockingly bad queue system there would be a lot more players having a bad time in battlegrounds due to the more frequent premade groups, the forums would reflect that. I suspect ZOS know this.
    away from eso until they add ranked deathmatch bgs
    [EU PC] @fake_remedy
    Discord: fake_remedy#3254
    Twitch
    YouTube
  • Rickter
    Rickter
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    Nope: a majority of pvpers think BGs are fine:

    BGs: DoA?
    RickterESO
    PC | NA | DC
    YouTube
    ______________________
    Guilds:
    Requiem GM | Dark Sisterhood Blood Knight | Legend Mod | Legend GvG Mod
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    Bloodletter | StamDK | Alliance Rank 46 | Former Emperor of Shor (2018) | Former Emperor of Thornblade #4terms (2015)
    PvE:
    vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMA | vDSA | vMoL | ALL Vet 4 Man Dungeons


  • AverageJo3Gam3r
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    Learn to ptfo. If you want to pubstomp that's your choice but don't complain if your team loses (your teammates have the right to complain tho).

    Pvp is more than just mindless button mashing until the other player is dead. This isn't a fighting game.
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Learn to ptfo. If you want to pubstomp that's your choice but don't complain if your team loses (your teammates have the right to complain tho).

    Pvp is more than just mindless button mashing until the other player is dead. This isn't a fighting game.

    Errr do we play the same game?
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Zer0oo
    Zer0oo
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    I agree that CTF and domination need rework, but i don't think you should get points for kills. You should get punished when you die. Maybe you can't leave the base for 20-40 sec if you die. If you wipe the enemy grp they are stuck in the base and your team has it easy to get the flag/sigil.
    They also should slow down how fast how fast you can flip/take a flag. Defending is almost useless or impossible.
    Especial in CTF you can't stop someone with s&b ulti, who is just running to score the flag. Give picking up flags in CTF a cast time would also be nice.
    EU player that is salty about BAD performance and not working BGs
  • BNOC
    BNOC
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    Zer0oo wrote: »
    I agree that CTF and domination need rework, but i don't think you should get points for kills. You should get punished when you die. Maybe you can't leave the base for 20-40 sec if you die. If you wipe the enemy grp they are stuck in the base and your team has it easy to get the flag/sigil.
    They also should slow down how fast how fast you can flip/take a flag. Defending is almost useless or impossible.
    Especial in CTF you can't stop someone with s&b ulti, who is just running to score the flag. Give picking up flags in CTF a cast time would also be nice.

    Good suggestion but, that's not a realistic solution either, in 20-40 seconds 2 quick-movers could cap 2 relics easily and be on their way back for the 3rd and 4th.

    The problem I find with these game modes is exactly as Lee said.
    Oh and in domination? If your team actively engages another team and you don't wipe them within 10s and instead it turns into a good fight?

    You lose because the 3rd team of people who are 0-5 or 1-6 cap all the other points and your 150 points behind before you know it.

    Literally if you're fighting for 1 flag XvXv0, the other 3 flags will be capped by the time someone has that 1 and all combat will be ignored by the third team.

    This is absolutely the problem - There's no incentive to actually fight, it's just turned in to another "How can I play the objective, never die and not have to fight anyone," and the answer is, go the opposite way to the action, pick up the uncontested flag, cap it, receive rewards- rinse and repeat.

    I chalk it up to the fact it's 4v4v4, you wouldn't have this problem so much in 4v4. But at the same time I've been in and seen 4v4v4 games that were great.

    I suggest something like:
    • Penalise people who do less than 150k-200k damage/healing per BG with a deserter/coward debuff.
    • Do not reward AP/EXP or Mail rewards for anyone who doesn't hit a damage/healing threshold.
    • Reduce rewards and gains for finishing games quicker (If it doesn't already) to stop speed capping and a 4man
    • etc;

    Something that will literally force people to be open to combat without affecting anything else. If they choose not to, fine, you won't see them in your BG for at least 20 minutes or they're not getting rewards etc.
    Edited by BNOC on June 29, 2017 11:41AM
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • Zer0oo
    Zer0oo
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    BNOC wrote: »
    Zer0oo wrote: »
    I agree that CTF and domination need rework, but i don't think you should get points for kills. You should get punished when you die. Maybe you can't leave the base for 20-40 sec if you die. If you wipe the enemy grp they are stuck in the base and your team has it easy to get the flag/sigil.
    They also should slow down how fast how fast you can flip/take a flag. Defending is almost useless or impossible.
    Especial in CTF you can't stop someone with s&b ulti, who is just running to score the flag. Give picking up flags in CTF a cast time would also be nice.

    Good suggestion but, that's not a realistic solution either, in 20-40 seconds 2 quick-movers could cap 2 relics easily and be on their way back for the 3rd and 4th.

    The problem I find with these game modes is exactly as Lee said.
    Oh and in domination? If your team actively engages another team and you don't wipe them within 10s and instead it turns into a good fight?

    You lose because the 3rd team of people who are 0-5 or 1-6 cap all the other points and your 150 points behind before you know it.

    Literally if you're fighting for 1 flag XvXv0, the other 3 flags will be capped by the time someone has that 1 and all combat will be ignored by the third team.

    This is absolutely the problem - There's no incentive to actually fight, it's just turned in to another "How can I play the objective, never die and not have to fight anyone," and the answer is, go the opposite way to the action, pick up the uncontested flag, cap it, receive rewards- rinse and repeat.

    I chalk it up to the fact it's 4v4v4, you wouldn't have this problem so much in 4v4. But at the same time I've been in and seen 4v4v4 games that were great.

    I suggest something like:
    • Penalise people who do less than 150k-200k damage/healing per BG with a deserter/coward debuff.
    • Do not reward AP/EXP or Mail rewards for anyone who doesn't hit a damage/healing threshold.
    • Reduce rewards and gains for finishing games quicker (If it doesn't already) to stop speed capping and a 4man
    • etc;

    Something that will literally force people to be open to combat without affecting anything else. If they choose not to, fine, you won't see them in your BG for at least 20 minutes or they're not getting rewards etc.

    Like i said the need to slow down how fast you can get a flag or capture a flag. Ppl have now to think about if they risk to fight or not, since if you kill someone you are getting an good advantage over the other team.

    In CTF you can way to fast take the enemy flag and run to your base. Now you see the stam sorc and in 3 sec he has score the flag :/.

    Same goes for Domination as soon as you see that one of your flags is ua it is almost too late to get to the flag.


    As for punishing ppl who are not performing so well, i don't think it is a good idea. It will dive ppl just away from playing pvp.
    EU player that is salty about BAD performance and not working BGs
  • r.jan_emailb16_ESO
    r.jan_emailb16_ESO
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    CTF needs a hefty movement speed debuff when you pick up the flag (that can't be avoided), and maybe a short channel to pick up the relic. Right now it's just ridiculous that you can blitz it with speed/immovability pots.

    Deathmatch, the killstealing is really stupid. I'd like to have queues based on game modes and ignore this one forever, even when they change the scoring (but that's personal view, I guess).

    Domination, I actually like this one. It's true that you loose when overly committing to a fight, but you gotta play it smart in this case. Would be so much easier when premade teams would actually work.. could be like the GW2 pvp which was quite strategic at times, and required different roles. (4v4 or 5v5 instead of 4v4v4 and maps with a more interesting layout would be cool as well, but yeah... don't have any hopes here)

    ----

    Overall improvements needed: remove the sigil of power (or make clear when/where it spawns, would make for an interesting side mechanic instead of being RNG).
    Lairgren | DC Dragonknight - August Palatine
    playing for eXile


    I'm done, CU somewhere else.
  • BNOC
    BNOC
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    Zer0oo wrote: »
    [
    In CTF you can way to fast take the enemy flag and run to your base. Now you see the stam sorc and in 3 sec he has score the flag :/.

    As for punishing ppl who are not performing so well, i don't think it is a good idea. It will dive ppl just away from playing pvp.

    I agree with the top comment.

    As for the last one, I disagree - It won't drive anyone away from playing except those that were only going to try and run flags all day and avoid actual PvP, that doesn't sound like the kind of people you want in PvP anyway.
    The second people aren't getting rewards, exp or ap because they've not done something in particular is the second that they either start to do what they weren't or they just don't play anymore, either way that's a win for everyone else imo.
    CTF needs a hefty movement speed debuff when you pick up the flag (that can't be avoided), and maybe a short channel to pick up the relic. Right now it's just ridiculous that you can blitz it with speed/immovability pots.

    Overall improvements needed: remove the sigil of power (or make clear when/where it spawns, would make for an interesting side mechanic instead of being RNG).

    I think we should be careful with that because Templars and DK's for example are a lot slower by default, would the debuff be a base value?
    E.g. Speed set to 40% of 100% base speed. Rather than 40% of your modified speed. I think gap closers should work when you've got a relic but NOT streak as it doesn't rely on there being a target.

    Sigil shouldn't be in there full stop, not whilst proc sets are being abused, you don't need people doing 5k damage themselves and then being hit with 20k of powered up proc set damage - I'm getting hit with 14k selenes in heavy, that's not right.

    I also have to add that when one team quits out you should just leave it as a 4v4, have their objectives be non-contestable and neutralise them, don't end the game.
    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
    578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)

    vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
    569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)
  • Trashkan
    Trashkan
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    Why not turn you into a skelly or something like that giving all players same stats while they held the relic?
  • ChunkyCat
    ChunkyCat
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    For CTF, you should be able to at least get a few points for killing or helping to kill people that aren't carrying the relic.

    10 kills, 3 deaths, 11 assists, and I was at the bottom of the scoreboard because I didn't cap a flag. Guy with 0 kills, 5 deaths, and 2 assists was at the top.

    It was a fun game, but kind of a slap in the face at the same time.
  • akray21
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    If I get CTF I just leave, let my dog out, grab a beer, make food, empty the dishwasher, etc. House work is more fun than CTF.
    Edited by akray21 on June 30, 2017 7:24PM
  • Trashkan
    Trashkan
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    Well I guess ZOS just loves RNG and has found a way to incorporate it into a game mode! I honestly think getting capture the flag is worse than getting maelstrom weapon with a crap trait on it.
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