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Remove Oblivion Damage from the Game - Add in Minor/Major Concentration/Disruption
Avran_Sylt
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
✭✭
This is building up from this poll.
Oblivion Damage has far too many applications aside from just breaking through shields. From dealing increased damage to lower health glass cannon targets of both magicka and stamina build, to completely ignoring all resistances of any kind of build and going through blocking targets. Not only that, but by being able to completely bypass a players shield you ignore any kind of build that they may put around it. It's mainly touted as being the counter to shielding builds, however I feel that while that is indeed something that it can do, overall it is more harmful to the state of the game. Especially if the Bug between it and the Infused Enchantment ever gets fixed (Currently the ICD is not being reduced by 40%).
I Propose to remove it from the game, and instead replace it with a buff that counters shields by increasing the damage dealt to them. Of course adding in a mirrored buff that allows the player to strengthen their own shields. Some sets would change because of this, and I would also suggest that some skills are tweaked as to not cause too much of an imbalance.
.
Concentration:
Increases the strength of your Applied Damage Shields by [x]%
Disruption:
Increases the damage dealt to Damage Shields by [x]%
.
Shield Breaker:
5 piece bonus would change to granting the player Major Disruption at all times.
Knight Slayer:
5 piece bonus would let the player ignore 20% of a target's Spell Resistance.
.
While this is debatable, I think that the Sorcerers Hardened Ward should now no longer grant a 33% increase to the players Ward, but should instead grant Minor Concentration while Slotted.
.
Minor/Major Protection currently applies to wards, potentially leading to niche builds that become very hard to kill.
.
Edited by Avran_Sylt on June 30, 2017 4:47AM
The General Idea
Oblivion Damage has far too many applications aside from just breaking through shields. From dealing increased damage to lower health glass cannon targets of both magicka and stamina build, to completely ignoring all resistances of any kind of build and going through blocking targets. Not only that, but by being able to completely bypass a players shield you ignore any kind of build that they may put around it. It's mainly touted as being the counter to shielding builds, however I feel that while that is indeed something that it can do, overall it is more harmful to the state of the game. Especially if the Bug between it and the Infused Enchantment ever gets fixed (Currently the ICD is not being reduced by 40%).
I Propose to remove it from the game, and instead replace it with a buff that counters shields by increasing the damage dealt to them. Of course adding in a mirrored buff that allows the player to strengthen their own shields. Some sets would change because of this, and I would also suggest that some skills are tweaked as to not cause too much of an imbalance.
.
The Buffs:
Concentration:
Increases the strength of your Applied Damage Shields by [x]%
Disruption:
Increases the damage dealt to Damage Shields by [x]%
.
Impacted Sets
Shield Breaker:
5 piece bonus would change to granting the player Major Disruption at all times.
Knight Slayer:
5 piece bonus would let the player ignore 20% of a target's Spell Resistance.
.
Impacted Skills
While this is debatable, I think that the Sorcerers Hardened Ward should now no longer grant a 33% increase to the players Ward, but should instead grant Minor Concentration while Slotted.
.
Potential Issues
Minor/Major Protection currently applies to wards, potentially leading to niche builds that become very hard to kill.
.
Remove Oblivion Damage from the Game - Add in Minor/Major Concentration/Disruption 81 votes
It needs work, but sounds Doable
12%
10 votes
Keep Oblivion damage the way it is
72%
59 votes
Other
2%
2 votes
I Don't Care
12%
10 votes
2
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Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isthe enchantment is fine. the only thing that needs adjustment is the cheese / troll sets.0
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Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭the enchantment is fine. the only thing that needs adjustment is the cheese / troll sets.
You might say that, but the enchantment itself is under performing as it is currently. the ICD isn't reduced when used with an infused weapon due to a bug. Meaning that players using an infused Oblivion Damage enchantment should be dealing a considerably larger amount of damage with it.Edited by Avran_Sylt on June 30, 2017 4:46AM0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isAvran_Sylt wrote: »
You might say that, but the enchantment itself is under performing as it is currently. the ICD isn't reduced when used with an infused weapon due to a bug. Meaning that players using an infused Oblivion Damage enchantment should be dealing a considerably larger amount of damage with it.
im sure they will fix that. However, by no means is oblivion damage enchant underperforming. its very useful in pvp and also can be buffed a bit with the mighty cp tree I think.Edited by Gothren on June 30, 2017 4:49AM0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »
You might say that, but the enchantment itself is under performing as it is currently. the ICD isn't reduced when used with an infused weapon due to a bug. Meaning that players using an infused Oblivion Damage enchantment should be dealing a considerably larger amount of damage with it.
im sure they will fix that. However, by no means is oblivion damage enchant underperforming. its very useful in pvp and also can be buffed a bit with the mighty cp tree I think.
But, if it isn't under performing and you allow players to increase the rate at which it can proc by 40%.... could that perhaps be a problem?0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isAvran_Sylt wrote: »
But, if it isn't under performing and you allow players to increase the rate at which it can proc by 40%.... could that perhaps be a problem?
I think that equates to like a 1 second difference which is not that big of a deal. I don't think its an issue. I like it because it gives me some good solid damage against very tanky players.0 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »
But, if it isn't under performing and you allow players to increase the rate at which it can proc by 40%.... could that perhaps be a problem?
I think that equates to like a 1 second difference which is not that big of a deal. I don't think its an issue. I like it because it gives me some good solid damage against very tanky players.
A 1.6 Second Difference. Reducing the ICD to 2.4 seconds. Combined with Torug's Pact yields a 1.4 seconds ICD and a 50% damage boost. It's a nasty cheese build. Especially if combined with Knight Slayer or Shield Breaker with a bow or lightning staff. I've used it in the Morrowind Beta.Edited by Avran_Sylt on June 30, 2017 5:00AM0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isAvran_Sylt wrote: »
A 1.6 Second Difference. Reducing the ICD to 2.4 seconds. Combined with Torug's Pact yields a 1.4 seconds ICD and a 50% damage boost. It's a nasty cheese build. Especially if combined with Knight Slayer or Shield Breaker with a bow or lightning staff. I've used it in the Morrowind Beta.
I honestly have never seen any player use this so im skeptical if it works. torug's pact you are sacrificing alot just for the 5 set bonus. the other sets are just pure cheese. for shield breaker guys i run vitality pots with gradual healing on my quick slot bar which helps alot.Edited by Gothren on June 30, 2017 5:11AM0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherI said this previously, but the shield strength this patch especially is coming from Sorcerers being able to use Major Protection on their shields. Major Protection should not apply to damage shield. If their resto ult isn't up, they drop fast enough with high damage.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isDisgracefulMind wrote: »I said this previously, but the shield strength this patch especially is coming from Sorcerers being able to use Major Protection on their shields. Major Protection should not apply to damage shield. If their resto ult isn't up, they drop fast enough with high damage.
i don't think they will change this. now imagine that paired with wizards riposte lol.0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherDisgracefulMind wrote: »I said this previously, but the shield strength this patch especially is coming from Sorcerers being able to use Major Protection on their shields. Major Protection should not apply to damage shield. If their resto ult isn't up, they drop fast enough with high damage.
i don't think they will change this. now imagine that paired with wizards riposte lol.
Oh I already know what it's like. Mediocre players become god tank sorcs and even high damage builds can barely dent their health while Major Protection is up. It's ridiculous, and unnecessary, and needs a huge change. Shields shouldn't benefit from Major Protection.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »I said this previously, but the shield strength this patch especially is coming from Sorcerers being able to use Major Protection on their shields. Major Protection should not apply to damage shield. If their resto ult isn't up, they drop fast enough with high damage.
i don't think they will change this. now imagine that paired with wizards riposte lol.
Oh I already know what it's like. Mediocre players become god tank sorcs and even high damage builds can barely dent their health while Major Protection is up. It's ridiculous, and unnecessary, and needs a huge change. Shields shouldn't benefit from Major Protection.
In that case all damage buffs shouldnt work against shields either.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherFirst - torugs vs julianos is a good comparison. Its easy to look at just the enchant gain but compare that to what julianos does to everything else.
Second - have not checked in a while but does oblivion grt reduced by battle spirit? If not that needs fixing.
Third, if you look at the numbers, oblivion damage is not "going thru all defenses" in a way because it is already pre-mitigated. Compare it to a fire or lightning attack enchant, then factor in boosts from cp tree for elemental/magic, then factor in racial bonuses say to fire and look at the difference before defenses.
That drop before defenses in output equates to a non-shield mitigation only its being applied by the attacker. The fact that its then taking that already mitigated amount straight in means some cases will see it better and others worse.
Other than the once reported battle spirit thing, oblivion may be annoying but not op.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherDisgracefulMind wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »I said this previously, but the shield strength this patch especially is coming from Sorcerers being able to use Major Protection on their shields. Major Protection should not apply to damage shield. If their resto ult isn't up, they drop fast enough with high damage.
i don't think they will change this. now imagine that paired with wizards riposte lol.
Oh I already know what it's like. Mediocre players become god tank sorcs and even high damage builds can barely dent their health while Major Protection is up. It's ridiculous, and unnecessary, and needs a huge change. Shields shouldn't benefit from Major Protection.
In that case all damage buffs shouldnt work against shields either.
I'd be totally fine with that, but shields can't be crit. Since they cannot be crit, why should they take 30% less damage as well?Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isFirst - torugs vs julianos is a good comparison. Its easy to look at just the enchant gain but compare that to what julianos does to everything else.
Second - have not checked in a while but does oblivion grt reduced by battle spirit? If not that needs fixing.
Third, if you look at the numbers, oblivion damage is not "going thru all defenses" in a way because it is already pre-mitigated. Compare it to a fire or lightning attack enchant, then factor in boosts from cp tree for elemental/magic, then factor in racial bonuses say to fire and look at the difference before defenses.
That drop before defenses in output equates to a non-shield mitigation only its being applied by the attacker. The fact that its then taking that already mitigated amount straight in means some cases will see it better and others worse.
Other than the once reported battle spirit thing, oblivion may be annoying but not op.
I think oblivion damage enchant is not effected by battle spirit. You take the full damage but cannot crit.0 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭*Sigh* I wanted to know what was Zos' stance on this enchant at the end of the last PTS cycle, but it was already too late due to the early release...
As it stands, for those who are not aware, that's the state of the enchant:- Only Infused trait and Torug's pact can increase its damage
- The Master-At-Arms CP will increase its tooltip, but not the actual damage (always 1900 without above tools)
- It hits through block, shields and even dodge roll for its full value
- It is not reduced by Battlespirit
- Infused does not currently reduce the cooldown
- It cannot effectively crit, if it does show up as a crit, it will still hit for the exact same value
We don't really know which of those are intended or not except for the second point (since it's either a bug with MAA or the tooltip), so hard to tell what Zos intends to do with those.
I am surprised Oblivion enchants don't see more play, seeing how effective they are against literally everything - much more than damage shields users or tanks. It is quite literally a proc set on its own and a very, very potent tool.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.0 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isI think its balanced. There was no way to break this shieldstacking magicka sorcs and here it is Obliviandamage. With my Magicka Templar, i dont feel weaker against a guy, who uses Obliviandamage instead of other sets, so its surely balanced enough!
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone is trying to farm posts and user reactions lately it seems...Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
AzraelKrieg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isSuck it up buttercupGold Dragons Guildmaster PC-NACR2000+Kalthar Wolf-Brother – EP Templar - 50 Maeli Valen - EP NB - 50Naps-During-Trials – EP Templar - 50Rulnakh - EP Sorc - 50Azrael Krieg - EP NB – 50Uvithasa Telvanni – EP DK – 50More-Tail - EP Warden - 50Narile Galen - EP Sorc - 50Bone Soldier - EP Necro - 50Naps-During-Trails - EP Necro - 501 -
Iyas✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oblivion is way too strong. Totally balanced to get in mistform with 100% life and then some ppl light attack you with oblivion glyph and suddenly youre on 20% Life0 -
Elvenpath✭✭✭1) Remove viper
2) Remove tremore
3) Remove oblivion damage
Let the sorcs rule them again. Let us the feel pain.0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It needs work, but sounds DoableThere are many nice enchantments that work better with certain classes.
All are being overlooked because OblivionDAMAGE
I am against any feature that is the go to by the majority of the players, negating variety.
Let it be removed. Even tho it's the enchantment I am running in all my weapons that need a damage enchantment.Edited by GeorgeBlack on June 30, 2017 8:08AM0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭OtherGeorgeBlack wrote: »There are many nice enchantments that work better with certain classes.
All are being overlooked because OblivionDAMAGE
I am against any feature that is the go to by the majority of the players, negating variety.
Let it be removed. Even tho it's the enchantment I am running in all my weapons that need a damage enchantment.
in PVE OD is a trade-off due to its pre-mitigation -. others do more damage depending on build, esp penetrations) and enemies (shields or no)
in PVP the battle spirit thing creates a double-damage effective boost for OD which throws all that out the window.
@Asmael
"Only Infused trait and Torug's pact can increase its damage"
Question: Does OD crit for increased damage at this point? if it is not able to increase its damage by crits that is a thing.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oblivion is way too strong. Totally balanced to get in mistform with 100% life and then some ppl light attack you with oblivion glyph and suddenly youre on 20% Life
By some people do you mean 5-6? Because oblivion or not, mist form or not your not gonna be able to survive that much dmg.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm the only one who thinks you guys are overreacting?
If I have to be honest this enchantment and every single enchantment in the game is ***, poisons are superior, but of course that's my opinion.K1 The Big Monkey0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isOblivion/"true" damage is fine, though some sources of it need balancing.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
Kali_Despoine✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isfunny how you're all just now starting to realize the Oblivion Damage in the game. Turogs' Pact is a 3 trait craftable set and pair that with some oblivion damage weapons infused your gold.
Well I guess Knight Slayer just dropped so now your all seeing what this can do. I always chuckle when I hear people complain about shield stackers.0 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isAnother "Nerf Sorcs" thread.
Nerf melee-proc sets and fix Cyro lags, and reduce ping impact on PvP and only after that start nefring Sorc's Shield.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
0 -
Asmael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »There are many nice enchantments that work better with certain classes.
All are being overlooked because OblivionDAMAGE
I am against any feature that is the go to by the majority of the players, negating variety.
Let it be removed. Even tho it's the enchantment I am running in all my weapons that need a damage enchantment.
[...]
@Asmael
"Only Infused trait and Torug's pact can increase its damage"
Question: Does OD crit for increased damage at this point? if it is not able to increase its damage by crits that is a thing.
See last point:It cannot effectively crit, if it does show up as a crit, it will still hit for the exact same value
It is weird that it does crit in the first place then, but I'm wondering whether it is using the base critical chance (10%) or scales based on either weapon or spell critical.
Actually, I saved a few parses with this enchant and a high enough number of procs, I can check it once home.PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.0 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isAnother "Nerf Sorcs" thread.
Nerf melee-proc sets and fix Cyro lags, and reduce ping impact on PvP and only after that start nefring Sorc's Shield.
To be fair, removing oblivion damage would also buff sorcs, as it goes through shields.
The suggested change just looks like added complexity with no real benefit, though.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep Oblivion damage the way it isDeadlyRecluse wrote: »Another "Nerf Sorcs" thread.
Nerf melee-proc sets and fix Cyro lags, and reduce ping impact on PvP and only after that start nefring Sorc's Shield.
To be fair, removing oblivion damage would also buff sorcs, as it goes through shields.
The suggested change just looks like added complexity with no real benefit, though.
I'd agree, especially no real benefit. Especially since there are few sources for oblivion damage and none are overwhelming, but serve a good purpose.0