[Suggestion] Do not allow lowbies queue to Veteran dungeons

SilverWF · June 2017

Simple question: what does community thinks about that?
'Lowbies' - any player of champion rank 1 to 159

Why ppl going to veteran dungeons? For Pledges and to Gear farm.

With lowbie in the party making pledge on HM (for 2 keys) becomes nearly impossible task and you can't share gear with them, because noone need a gear of 150 and lower lvl, lowbies included, because they gaining levels pretty fast and that gear would becomes weak too soon.
They need to farm normals at this levels, no veterans. But the game allows them to queue to veteran dungeons, any of them.
Just to note: pledge (for 1 key) can be done at normal. You just can't do HM at normal, because HM possible at vet only. But having lowbie in the party making HM impossible in this case.

And truly most of high-CP players, when they see a lowbie in the party would do one of this: votekick lowbie or just leave with some "farewell" words to them. Not the best game experience, right?
Sure, not everyone doing this, but not everyone using addons, that allows to see partymemebers levels right on the screen.

So, there is a two options:
1. Do not allow queue to vet at all
2. Allow queue to easy vet dungeons - any dungeon with "1" at the end of the name, i.e. City of Ash 1, Fungal Grotto 1 etc.

Since CP system were introduced and One Tamriel released, the meaning of "veteran" must has been changed too.
That's a meaning of real Veteran: you may didn't know of all dungeons around mechs, but you must know your class perfectly.
Obviously, 99% of lowbies are not veterans. Champions - yes, veterans - not.

As usual, biased pool is biased, but I don't care, because I still have queue penalty time on my tank, after leaving vet Selene's Web with cp10, cp60 and cp110 partymates inside. I've get there after their previous tank left - before the fight even starts. At least, I've tested them at 1st boss - they has failed

P.S. Yes, I've met enough number high-CP players, that acted as crazy noobs, no need to remind me about that. At least, I still can share gear with them.

Krayzie · June 2017

i love getting paired with 3 wardens who have no idea what they're doing

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

Betsararie · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

They can't queue for them, they're too much of an inconvenience to the group.

And that isn't an insult, we were all there at one point of course.

However, the issue is not only will some content be literally not possible to clear, it will also be a very unenjoyable experience.

And the reason we can't just say "oh, well let them do the easy ones", is because that is subjective at the end of the day, even though most people generally agree on which dungeons are considered the easiest.

Barring entry to players under CP 160 will also give players another incentive to work towards in addition to reaching the max gear level, I see only upside here.

xblackroxe · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

Carrying a bad dd is ez. Carrying a bad tank/healer is not.

M0bi · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

I absolutely love it when I want to do veteran wayrest sewers and one of the dd's is cp12 and the tank is cp20....
really makes my day...

Krayzie · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

It fits fine, lower cp=less points for damage/resistance, and it's not bias to say they're not experienced enough at the game to be in vet dungeons at that level....

Enodoc · June 2017

Veteran officially starts at Level 50. Denying any players who have reached Level 50 access to Veteran content would be incorrect.

Anhedonie · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Krayzie wrote: »

i love getting paired with 3 wardens who have no idea what they're doing

I got in vet CoH1 yesterday with 2 dd wardens and a warden healer. Twins fight lasted 6 minutes.
That was mind numbing.

Voxicity · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

(This is an issue with the game's design, not the fault of the lowbies. It's okay to be new)

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Good but how do you stop these new char with shared champion points?

I see level30 who I think are noobs but have 600CP.

Betsararie · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

Good but how do you stop these new char with shared champion points?

I see level30 who I think are noobs but have 600CP.

The discussion is about vet dungeons

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

xblackroxe wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

Carrying a bad dd is ez. Carrying a bad tank/healer is not.

My experience you quoted was with a low level dps and no dedicated heals, just regen on us part of the time. We did fine.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran officially starts at Level 50. Denying any players who have reached Level 50 access to Veteran content would be incorrect.

Thank, I know when it starts officially.
The goal of this poll is to change this.
They are not actual veterans and the most part of ingame community would react pretty bad, when they would met, i.e. cp100 Healer in the Cradle of Shadows - he just would be instakicked.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

What dungeon it was? Did you done it at HM?
Did you missed, that I agreed that there is easy veteran dungeons exists and the problem only in gear sharing here?

DivinityDay · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

My son and I were queuing up for random dungeons this weekend and had some lowbies in our group each time.

They look like bots lol. We had one person in Cradle that was heavy attacking with their bow while standing in place, dying, getting rez'd and then resuming lol

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Voxicity wrote: »

(This is an issue with the game's design, not the fault of the lowbies. It's okay to be new)

Noone blaming them for this - we all were lowbies (someone are still, like me

). The goal is make an ingame restriction to queue for vet dungeons

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

Good but how do you stop these new char with shared champion points?

I see level30 who I think are noobs but have 600CP.

This is more the case. CP level means nothing and most that complain about being in a group with a low CP are often part of the problem. I queue for randoms for the heck of it and during the past year have had maybe 4/5 groups that could not clear. I mostly queue for vet dungeons at that.

xblackroxe · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

Carrying a bad dd is ez. Carrying a bad tank/healer is not.

My experience you quoted was with a low level dps and no dedicated heals, just regen on us part of the time. We did fine.

As i said carrying bad dps is ez.

Voxicity · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

SilverWF wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

(This is an issue with the game's design, not the fault of the lowbies. It's okay to be new)

Noone blaming them for this - we all were lowbies (someone are still, like me ). The goal is make an ingame restriction to queue for vet dungeons

I know mate, wasn't aimed at you. Just a general statement

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Why did I think any level could join a vet dungeon? I don't know.

Yes I agree. Only 160 + should be able to join Vet Dungeons. Something to work towards isn't it. Keep those players online ZM.

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Mind you.

When ZM finally raises gear cap there should be an ''Insanity Dungeon''

essi2 · June 2017

A more relevant option would be to Disallow and/or add an option to take DLC dungeons out of the random pool.
And to gate DLC Dungeons to only CP160+

CP10-159 should be perfectly capable of doing Vanilla VetDungeons.

doggie · June 2017

During my last play through, the best time I had in the game was Tanking dungeons at Vet 10-80. You really felt alive, the HP bar was moving and mistakes had consequences,

After 200 CP doing the regular Vet dungeons became pointless and very few people want to do the DLC ones.

Even if you have CP 160+ only guys you have no guarantee that they will do more than 10k dps. I have done 100's if not 1000's of dungeons through the dungeon finder, and vast majority of them the total team dps is below 30k.

You're better off craeting a team from scratch to get 2 keys TBH. Saves you a lot of trouble.

Krayzie · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

Good but how do you stop these new char with shared champion points?

I see level30 who I think are noobs but have 600CP.

This is more the case. CP level means nothing and most that complain about being in a group with a low CP are often part of the problem. I queue for randoms for the heck of it and during the past year have had maybe 4/5 groups that could not clear. I mostly queue for vet dungeons at that.

I know it's kewl to be elite and say 'cp means nothing', but when resistance/damage/recovery is all directly linked to cp it's kinda important.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

essi2 wrote: »

A more relevant option would be to Disallow and/or add an option to take DLC dungeons out of the random pool.
And to gate DLC Dungeons to only CP160+

CP10-159 should be perfectly capable of doing Vanilla VetDungeons.

Vanilla dungeons - with number 1, second option in the poll.
yw

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

SilverWF wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Veteran officially starts at Level 50. Denying any players who have reached Level 50 access to Veteran content would be incorrect.

Thank, I know when it starts officially.
The goal of this poll is to change this.
They are not actual veterans and the most part of ingame community would react pretty bad, when they would met, i.e. cp100 Healer in the Cradle of Shadows - he just would be instakicked.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

After the healer dropped because no one would vote to kick the CP100 DD we 3 manned the vet dungeon without issue, with the CP100 DD and the other dps off healing which would reduced their dps some. My tank was build as a tank so I was not contributing to damage.

I have also been in vet dungeons with DDs over CP160 and the damage sucked and we could not clear.

So bias against sub CP160 does not seem to fit well.

What dungeon it was? Did you done it at HM?
Did you missed, that I agreed that there is easy veteran dungeons exists and the problem only in gear sharing here?

Most of the dungeons are easy. No, it was not HM because it was not the pledge and considering I have queued for randoms often during the past year and it is extremely rare I have an issue I have probably cleared most of the dungeons with at least one low lvl CP player. Often end up being brought into a group in progress, explain the fights and the group clears.

There is an option that we all have to ensure we do the dungeons with the CP level players we choose. It is called forming the group ourselves. Using GF we give up that privilege by design and by choice.

essi2 · June 2017

@SilverWF Nah, They should be able to do the Vet2s aswell

Rianai · June 2017

There are only a few dungeons that are problematic with low cp players (DLC dungeons, CoA2). Most vet dungeons (including hm!) can be done just fine. I actually can't remember a single one of my dungeon runs that failed because of the low level of a player. Of course runs with low cp players aren't always the fastest and without deaths (but not always bad either), but that's true for runs with high cp players too, and you shouldn't expect no death speedruns when using the dungeon finder anyway. Most issues are caused by lack of knowledge and experience and players won't learn the content if they can't play it, so instead of inexperienced <cp160 players you get inexperienced >cp160 players, which isn't much better.

xblackroxe wrote: »

As i said carrying bad dps is ez.

For tanks and healers stats are less important than for dps, so cp are even less relevant. A bad tank or healer doesn't suddenly turn into a pro just because he reaches cp160.

SilverWF · June 2017

Do not allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons

Wonder, why ppl ignoring "can't share gear" problem?..

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

There is an option that we all have to ensure we do the dungeons with the CP level players we choose. It is called forming the group ourselves. Using GF we give up that privilege by design and by choice.

Just imagine that not all, but most veterans choose that option. Who would left in the vet queue? Lowbies and a few veterans. HM dungeons would still be undoable. Just the same as restriction, but with broken hope and worst experience added.
Now you understand why this "option" is bad?

idk · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Krayzie wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

RIGHTEOUS_REPORT wrote: »

Good but how do you stop these new char with shared champion points?

I see level30 who I think are noobs but have 600CP.

This is more the case. CP level means nothing and most that complain about being in a group with a low CP are often part of the problem. I queue for randoms for the heck of it and during the past year have had maybe 4/5 groups that could not clear. I mostly queue for vet dungeons at that.

I know it's kewl to be elite and say 'cp means nothing', but when resistance/damage/recovery is all directly linked to cp it's kinda important.

@Krayzie Experience is what means most. Heck, there are players with low CP that are better than most with high CP. They grasp game mechanics faster and some of those low CP migrated from one of the other servers. See, bad players are bad players regardless of their CP. I have tanked in dungeons with CP160+ groups and DPS did not breach 10k That iis pretty low.

Magdalina · June 2017

Allow lowbies queue to the any veteran dungeons (as it is now)

Let them in. Well, first introduce a better vet dungeon ranking so they actually realize that vet ROM WILL hurt at cp 10, then let them choose. I want them there precisely because I want to run with skilled players - how else are we gonna get skilled players? It'd be different had there been any other way to learn the game but there is not. You can naked fistfight your way through all of the open world with exceptions of WB(which people usually just zerg). Short of vMA and soloing WB there is NOTHING in this whole game outside of group content that will even hint to them why alternating bow light attacks with hardcast frags is a bad idea. Sooner they see that they're...underperforming(if they are - some lowbies do extensive research and are anything but a hindrance to the group), sooner they (hopefully) will try to figure out how to build and perform to stop doing so. You block them from dungeons til cp 160? Great, we'll have even more clueless cp 160+ then. As if it isn't bad enough already.

The gear farm point is valid. It's...frustrating when a cp 30 gets the very piece you've been farming for for weeks. However, if you're organizing a farming run, you can simply specify "lf cp 160+ for <x> set farm". Pledges are not farming runs by default and it's not right to assume they are.

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[Suggestion] Do not allow lowbies queue to Veteran dungeons

[Suggestion] Do not allow lowbies queue to Veteran dungeons 359 votes