Black Desert Player looking into ESO

Aletheion · November 2016

Meld777 wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

No comparison for me. My worst day in ESO is much better than my best in BDO. You might as well say ESO doesn't even have a grind compared to BDO. RnG here is nothing compared to that korean casino sim. The questing and overall feel of the world is better too in my opinion. ESO has group content as well as solo adventures. The pvp, though balance issues do exist, is not about getting one shotted by a person 2 levels higher than you who got one more lucky upgrade on his gear. There is some level of skill involved in ESO'S pvp and pve, unlike BDO where gear and level are all that matters. BDO for me was a generic korean f2p/p2w/cash shop heavy sandbox like archeage, that fooled people into paying a box price.

For what it's worth the world in ESO feels much more alive to me than BDO'S. While leveling in BDO I rarely saw other players, unless it was in town, standing around afk fishing, horse training, auction house camping. Although ESO'S non group content is easily soloed, I have never got that monotonous lonely grind feeling in ESO. You'll hit max level and begin working on getting to the CP cap in less than half the time it took you to go from 50-55 in BDO.

All 100% wrong and the opposite, from my point of view. The poster either hasn't reached end game yet or was very lucky to get his Maelstrom weapons in a reasonable amount of runs. First option seems much more likely.

Though I don't completely disagree with @Meld777 you can't base the RNG of the ENTIRE game on Maelstrom arena. ESO's RNG is wonderful compared to many games including Black Desert which has a severe punish component to it. You can grind for 2 months to get 2 Ogre rings and destroy them both on a bad combine.

Even games like Diablo where there are 6 stats on an item and all 6 of them have an RNG component. 1) If you even get the stat you want, then 2) how that stat rolled. ESO items dropped or crafted all have the exact same stats with the exception of the Trait. And outside of Maelstrom, getting the trait you want is not that hard.

Imagine if the armor/weapon damage, trait, style, enchant, and the amount of damage the bonus gives were ALL RNG. That's what Diablo is like. You have to try and farm the same armor/weapon hundreds of times just like Maelstrom to get the BiS drop. In the meantime, you use the lousy rolled one you found - the Diablo equivalent of a Inferno Maelstrom staff with Prosperous on it. In Diablo, the item can drop anywhere. You can't grind a specific content to try over and over for a specific item like you can in ESO.

In the case of Infallible Aether or Spellweave or something like that, you can party up and trade if someone else gets what you want. In terms of overland drops, they are BoE and you can buy them.

All of these types of games have RNG in them, but from my experience over the last 20 years of gaming, ESO is the easiest to farm items - Maelstrom weapons being the most difficult. So for the OP wanting to get away from the horrendous RNG of BDO, yes, ESO is significantly less painful.

PS, my main BDO toon is lvl 56 and has Tri on pretty much everything, so I know the pain of getting there. In ESO I'm CP 600+ with multiple BiS gears with the *one* exception of a Maelstrom staff (and I think I've officially given up on getting that).

-Aletheion

LegendaryArcher · November 2016

Farming for BiS Gear Comparison - BDO vs. ESO

BDO: Farm world bosses with friends.
ESO: Farm a repetitive solo arena where the first run will take you a day (only if you're skilled and well-geared) until you learn the mechanics and bring that time down to 1 hour.

BDO: Buy your gear eventually for the money you made playing, if you're not lucky.
ESO: BoP only. Run the solo arena or you won't be competitive. Unless the BiS weapon drops, you get zero reward. What you get is not sufficient to even cover repairing costs. Not even gonna talk about potions. You only spend resources running it. So you need to get those resources upfront by grinding other content.

BDO: Bad luck protection.
ESO: Go f yourself system. 1000+ hours of life time spent in a solo arena instead of playing with friends to be competitive and still only decon trash in the last chest? No guarantee your 1001st run will be any different. Or your 1002nd run. Or the next 1000 runs. Most people quit around 300 runs.

BDO: Everyone has to go through the same grind. Equal chances.
ESO: Before Dark Brotherhood, the BiS weapons got handed out like candy to most of the then-existing end game community. Those that have a good time in ESO today are those who got their gear before Dark Brotherhood or got very lucky. The others are either no-lifing a solo arena right now or are happy in Black Desert.

About me:
BDO: Level 58 Berserker, full Tri/Tet, Liverto, Dandelion, etc.
ESO: CP850+ Nightblade, 300 vMA runs, not a single Maelstrom weapon that would be better than a crafted Sharpened alternative.

So yes, I can judge RNG and end game in both games.

Aletheion · November 2016

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

Farming for BiS Gear Comparison - BDO vs. ESO

BDO: Farm world bosses with friends.
ESO: Farm a repetitive solo arena where the first run will take you a day (only if you're skilled and well-geared) until you learn the mechanics and bring that time down to 1 hour.

BDO: Buy your gear eventually for the money you made playing, if you're not lucky.
ESO: BoP only. Run the solo arena or you won't be competitive. Unless the BiS weapon drops, you get zero reward. What you get is not sufficient to even cover repairing costs. Not even gonna talk about potions. You only spend resources running it. So you need to get those resources upfront by grinding other content.

BDO: Bad luck protection.
ESO: Go f yourself system. 1000+ hours of life time spent in a solo arena instead of playing with friends to be competitive and still only decon trash in the last chest? No guarantee your 1001st run will be any different. Or your 1002nd run. Or the next 1000 runs. Most people quit around 300 runs.

BDO: Everyone has to go through the same grind. Equal chances.
ESO: Before Dark Brotherhood, the BiS weapons got handed out like candy to most of the then-existing end game community. Those that have a good time in ESO today are those who got their gear before Dark Brotherhood or got very lucky. The others are either no-lifing a solo arena right now or are happy in Black Desert.

About me:
BDO: Level 58 Berserker, full Tri/Tet, Liverto, Dandelion, etc.
ESO: CP850+ Nightblade, 300 vMA runs, not a single Maelstrom weapon that would be better than a crafted Sharpened alternative.

So yes, I can judge RNG and end game in both games.

With the weapon aside, now compare the difficulty in getting a full set of maxed out BiS armor/jewlery (CP160 divines or impen) in ESO vs a full set of maxed out (PEN) gear in BDO.

-Aletheion

Meld777 · November 2016

Aletheion wrote: »

With the weapon aside, now compare the difficulty in getting a full set of maxed out BiS armor/jewlery (CP160 divines or impen) in ESO vs a full set of maxed out (PEN) gear in BDO.

-Aletheion

You're missing the main point:

LegendaryArcher wrote: »

BDO: Farm world bosses with friends.
ESO: Farm a repetitive solo arena where the first run will take you a day (only if you're skilled and well-geared) until you learn the mechanics and bring that time down to 1 hour.

In Black Desert you actually play the game to get your weapon in an enjoyable way, you play an MMO with other people.
The "chance" itself doesn't matter as long as there is a light in the end of the tunnel, which doesn't exist in ESO. Not only that, but you're not enjoying the game when farming for your weapon. Having to farm a solo arena in an MMO with no light in the end of the tunnel is beaten by any RNG with "multiplayer" activity, no matter how low-chance, especially one like in Black Desert where you can purchase your desired weapon at some point if you're not lucky.

Yes, I get your point. All the other gear is easier to get than in BDO. But I want to see how you're gonna be competitive without vMA weapons. The difference in PvE is huge.

schnooty · November 2016

Less grinding here is all I've heard.

Aletheion · November 2016

Meld777 wrote: »

Aletheion wrote: »

With the weapon aside, now compare the difficulty in getting a full set of maxed out BiS armor/jewlery (CP160 divines or impen) in ESO vs a full set of maxed out (PEN) gear in BDO.

-Aletheion

You're missing the main point:

Maybe I am, but I'm not so much addressing the folks here talking about how infuriating and time wasting it is to get a vMA weapon (which I'm 100% on board with), I'm addressing the OP's request:

mastro_akqub17_ESO wrote: »

Anyone played both of these games for an extended amount of time can compare them and illustrate the differences and fine points? I have been getting very frustrated with BDO lately because of the RNG and progression. So I am looking for a different game maybe. Any help would be appreciated as I try to decide what to do.

It's unfair to say ESO is a solo grind for a single weapon you'll never get. It's not. Not even close.

In ESO, you explore interesting town and landscapes, you grind world bosses with friends, you run raids with guildies, you do random dungeons with PUGs, you grind for the gear you want in specific locations that drop it, you destroy each other in PVP, etc.

The reality is that RNG and progression in ESO as a whole is *far* smoother (and I guess easier, more relaxing maybe even) than BDO (which is a game I really enjoy by the way). Yes, there is the horrendous exception of the Maelstrom weapon - but the vast majority of players don't even have one because it's so hard to get. But overall, ESO's RNG is a walk in the park compared to other games and if someone is frustrated with BDO and enjoys the fantasy genre, then I'd encourage anyone to come play in Tamriel for a while. It will be an RNG breath of fresh air.

-Aletheion

Callous2208 · November 2016

Bdo is the loneliest mmo you'll ever play. The pvp is meh and it's the main feature. Rarely will you want or need to group with others. You'll just solo grind monsters in competition with others for a 1/1000 chance, or worse, for gear you need. Then you will repeat that process and combine those items to upgrade said item, destroying it in the process unless you're super lucky. Cash shop heavy, f2p, korean grinder. Archeage did everything bdo does but better and frankly had much more to do. It was just super p2w.

a1i3nz · November 2016

RNG is much better but still rather depressing at times.

As for immersion/weather it's a matter of preference. BDO has some cool effects and the environment is pretty high contrast compared to eso, but eso is very detailed and beautiful imo.

One thing that ruined my immersion in BDO was the way everything loads around you like it sprouts up out of the ground.

Meld777 · December 2016

Aletheion wrote: »

It's unfair to say ESO is a solo grind for a single weapon you'll never get. It's not. Not even close.

Sadly, it is. This is all ESO has become for me. I lost the desire to play it because of that.
No matter how long a grind takes, it's not as bad while you're actually playing the game, the MMO. Grinding a solo arena is not playing an MMO. And giving BiS weapons to all your hardcore competitors and then gating them behind unrealistic RNG in a solo arena is a no-go.

Yes, you need longer to level up in Black Desert and you need longer to get BiS gear, but

1. everyone had to go through that equally.
2. grinding is a "side thing". You do it automatically while playing the actual game with your friends.
3. there is bad luck protection.
4. there are alternative ways of acquiring things.

And, come on, other than like in ESO, you can't go from level 1 to 50 in 4 hours. The game teaches you how to play before you throw yourself at the hardest end-game content.

CeeJay · June 2017

I played ESO first and switched to BDO because i was mad at ESO about the whole DLC-to-expansion fiasco.
I have almost 600H pure grinding playtime in BDO.
I can honestly say i regret leaving ESO for BDO.

WHAT I DON'T LIKE ON BDO:

(1) It's pay to win!
Most will say it's pay for convenience. It's not!
The game has designed purposedly to inconvenience you.
That's where the "pay for convenience" kicks in.
It's called, an ILLUSION OF CHOICE" to be convenience when the truth is--they added feature to inconvenience you.

Examples:
WEIGHT -- this is a big one.
Everything has a weight -- even your money.
You also have to worry about enormous amount of trash loots for turning on quests,
which if you don't invest real money you'll have to frequently go back to town.
Now going back to town frequently is not that bad, but it's bad in BDO because it will usually take you 20min.
20 minutes is a long time for travelling + micro managing your inventory and turn in's in town.

PETS
Imagine you don't want to pay for pets.
You manually pick up loots one by one.
And when you pick up loots, you don't loot everything in one go
You have to press your pick up button for every single loot drop.
...
Imagine you have pets (MAX is 4 atm),
players with pets earn 4x compared to the person who won't spend money.
That's 400% more cash.
BDO players will say it's for CONVIENCE,
but when the game is heavily reliant on ingame cash (for gear progression)
and a cash shop item brings you in 400% cash compare to others
that's freaking PAY TO WIN
...
That's not all.
Back to the game purposely "inconveniencing" players
so that the players will be compelled to "pay for convenience"
BDO has made it so the when your pet picks up loot,
it picks it up 1 loot at a time.
It doesn't pick up all your loots in one go
This is so to milk players even more.
You can pay even more real life money so your pets can pick up loots faster
...
See the pattern?
Why design pets to pick 1 loot at a time
When previous games allows pet to just pick up ALL loot in one swoop.

That's right, it's to INCONVENIENCE players
so they will feel compelled to be convenience

INVENTORY
On second thought, i think this is optional.

(2) The most toxic community i've ever seen -- PVP vs PVE
If you think LOL or DOTA or w/e have the most toxic community, think again.
BDO will make LOL and DOTA's toxicity as a mere's child play.
Just take a peek at their General Discussion forum for evidence.

Not only that, MOST (not all) old player base definition of fun is griefing (killing)
new freshbloods over and over again (whole world is a PVP area)

How can new players progress when they have to deal with players
Who has already maxed out gears worth months of grinding?

Basically the problem is more players means lag to the server.
It's a server problem, but they will point the gun at new players
who's not in control of the server issue.

Another problem is that the high level players choose to grind in low level areas
just so they can be efficient
Now those new low level players who are grinding in a spot appropriate for their level
gets killed over and over again by the maxed geared players who is clearly over leveled for that area

(3) The game promote solo play and punishes team play
Imagine a grind spot for at least 20-30 players or more
1 or 2 guys will claim the whole spot for themselves and kill the rest of the players in that area
All because they feel entitled to the area
The greediness of the players who played longer is incomprehensible.

....

CONCLUSION:
ESO is a better game by far. The only good thing i like in BDO are the auction house which centralizes all trading and prices are regulated so that items being sold are not over inflated. I also like their VALUE PACK, which is just the same as a VIP or subscription service. For a subscription service, the perks are really worth it for the "convenience." And TBH the combat and graphics are better in BDO. But like i said, other than those, ESO is better.

I'm currently playing and will still be playing BDO
until i can get the most entertainment
in order to justify the $200 i spent on my first month
AFTER that, i'm going straight back to ESO

And yes, you will be "THAT" compelled to "pay for convenience"
As it's' hard to ignore the inconvenience purposedly designed by the game

MLGProPlayer · June 2017

The grind is just as bad in ESO as it is in BDO.

The major difference between the two games is that ESO has PvE endgame while BDO doesn't (BDO is exclusively PvP endgame). ESO just has way more PvE content in general.

If you don't like PvE, then stick to BDO. If you do, then ESO is the far better game (PvP is good too, although you do need to do PvE to farm PvP gear).

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

RNG in ESO is in no way better than BDO to be honest.
There's a lot of grind here as well and you can spend days over days without getting the items you want.

You actually compared ESO rng to BDO dang, you must be the most generous person on the face of the earth to make BDO look that good ha.

Stovahkiin · June 2017

Guys.. necro