Isn't White Gold Tower a bit of a Time Paradox?

ArchMikem · June 2017

White Gold Tower, (the Group Dungeon) has ties with the Alliance War story and involves a Dremora posing as Clivia Tharn in order to steal an Elder Scroll to do some naughty stuff. After you defeat the Boss and recover the Scroll, bothering to look up reveals to you that you've actually closed the Anchor above the Tower, which would effectively end the Invasion of the Imperial City.

But a quick queue into a Cyrodiil Campaign and jaunt to a Keep within eyesight of the Imperial City shows the Anchor still going strong as always, even if you've completed the Dungeon at least once. That's a big continuity error, besides the fact that we can replay Dungeons an infinite number of times. Just wanted to say, shouldn't these details be taken into account?

psychotrip · June 2017

Welcome to one of the biggest issues in MMOs (if you care about story and atmosphere). This is very annoying, yes, but almost every mmo has these weird time paradoxes, and they only get worse the longer the game is around.

I think a relatively simple solution would be a form of cosmetic phasing. So, if you've completed the dungeon, you don't see the dark anchor on your screen, but anyone who hasn't completed it still does.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

Publius_Scipio · June 2017

When you have thousands and millions of players running around a shared digital world your actions can't always have an impact on what others see and experience. Such is the nature of the beast.

Akevoriath · June 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

That was just a half-arsed excuse to explain their laziness in story writing, it reminds me of something M. Night Shyamalan would do.

Skcarkden · June 2017

Chronologically, the dungeon is after the campaign... think of it like reading a book. you can read the chapter about the campaign outside, and then reach the chapter about the dungeon fight... and you go back to re-read the campaign chapter again and it still describes the scene with the anchor overhead... you've gone back to a point where it still exists so it wouldn't mean the book is wrong but your perspective is.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

Akevoriath wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

That was just a half-arsed excuse to explain their laziness in story writing, it reminds me of something M. Night Shyamalan would do.

a "half-arsed" explanation is still an explanation. just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it is bad. the real reason is because this is a video game and they can do whatever they want,.

starkerealm · June 2017

Skcarkden wrote: »

Chronologically, the dungeon is after the campaign... think of it like reading a book. you can read the chapter about the campaign outside, and then reach the chapter about the dungeon fight... and you go back to re-read the campaign chapter again and it still describes the scene with the anchor overhead... you've gone back to a point where it still exists so it wouldn't mean the book is wrong but your perspective is.

Beyond this, there is actually a chronology to the zones. Run stuff out of sequence, and things get weird or semi-nonsensical.

Faulgor · June 2017

Never understood with all their phasing technology they didn't change this in Cyrodiil after beating the dungeon. Would have been great.

Iccotak · June 2017

Eventually they will have to replace the Daedric invasion with something else to make the lore more consistent.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

Iccotak wrote: »

Eventually they will have to replace the Daedric invasion with something else to make the lore more consistent.

They do not *need* to do this because they can just explain it away with dragon breaks.

You guys just need to accept that time is not liner in the elder scrolls universe, especially in a time like online is set, what with a plane meld and such.

Magdalina · June 2017

Well we do also close the anchors in open world multiple times. Including after we stop the Planemeld and beat Molag Bal.

platonicidealgirlfriend · June 2017

Akevoriath wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

That was just a half-arsed excuse to explain their laziness in story writing, it reminds me of something M. Night Shyamalan would do.

an excuse that involves dramatically complicating the story by introducing the possibility of non-linear time is hardly half-assed m8

ArchMikem · June 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Eventually they will have to replace the Daedric invasion with something else to make the lore more consistent.

They do not *need* to do this because they can just explain it away with dragon breaks.

You guys just need to accept that time is not liner in the elder scrolls universe, especially in a time like online is set, what with a plane meld and such.

If time isn't linear then why record time at all? 1st Era, 2nd, 3rd, 4th they're all meaningless and pointless. Might as well just say, "The Date and Time is now. What? 2E 586? No, it's just now."

Cadbury · June 2017

^ What she said.

Sigtric · June 2017

You think things get weird in TES, at least all of our lore originated in games and was created for such.

Then look at something like Lord of the Rings Online using a old IP that probably has the most lore stickler fans ever seen. The fact that you could move forward or backwards in time in that game based on what region you were in was jarring.

At the prancing pony? Aragon is there waiting for Frodo. Take your quick travel to Rivendell? It's always before the forming of the fellowship.

By the time you get to Moria, Gandalf is fallen and the rest have passed through to the other side.

It could get really weird if you didn't know how it worked.

Cadbury · June 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

You think things get weird in TES, at least all of our lore originated in games and was created for such.

Then look at something like Lord of the Rings Online using a old IP that probably has the most lore stickler fans ever seen. The fact that you could move forward or backwards in time in that game based on what region you were in was jarring.

At the prancing pony? Aragon is there waiting for Frodo. Take your quick travel to Rivendell? It's always before the forming of the fellowship.

By the time you get to Moria, Gandalf is fallen and the rest have passed through to the other side.

It could get really weird if you didn't know how it worked.

FF14 is also like this. The main story gets really convoluted pre-Heavensward.

platonicidealgirlfriend · June 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

Eventually they will have to replace the Daedric invasion with something else to make the lore more consistent.

They do not *need* to do this because they can just explain it away with dragon breaks.

You guys just need to accept that time is not liner in the elder scrolls universe, especially in a time like online is set, what with a plane meld and such.

If time isn't linear then why record time at all? 1st Era, 2nd, 3rd, 4th they're all meaningless and pointless. Might as well just say, "The Date and Time is now. What? 2E 586? No, it's just now."

Non-linear time can still be understand as a series of discrete events which can generally be placed in sequence, especially since most of the mundane events that mortals actually care about are cyclical, such as planting and harvest.

To give it a pretentious metaphor a river has a start and an end but the water and the things it carries are free to flow past each other, settle on the bottom, or leave the river entirely.

Huyen · June 2017

Faulgor wrote: »

Never understood with all their phasing technology they didn't change this in Cyrodiil after beating the dungeon. Would have been great.

Cyrodiil is buggy and laggy as it is, without phasing for all the thousands of players running around capturing keeps.