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Stamblade ... 2h vs DW
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I use both everyday and DW is better.
The heals are better, the dots are strong and the sustain is way better.
If you go dual wield Quick Cloak is a must, especially for solo because you can't solo without speed buff.
You shouldn't also listen the people telling you to run 5 Viper 2 Selene 5 Eternal Hunt, it may work against noobs but you will get stomped against a real opponent and running 3 proc sets at once makes you get worse every day you spend running those and the day they get nerfed or capped to 1 you won't even be able to kill a mudcrab.
Why is the sustain better?
You lose 30% stam recovery for 10s per kill, you lose mobility and a better execute.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »I use both everyday and DW is better.
The heals are better, the dots are strong and the sustain is way better.
If you go dual wield Quick Cloak is a must, especially for solo because you can't solo without speed buff.
You shouldn't also listen the people telling you to run 5 Viper 2 Selene 5 Eternal Hunt, it may work against noobs but you will get stomped against a real opponent and running 3 proc sets at once makes you get worse every day you spend running those and the day they get nerfed or capped to 1 you won't even be able to kill a mudcrab.
Why is the sustain better?
You lose 30% stam recovery for 10s per kill, you lose mobility and a better execute.
You only do Heavy Attacks while dual wielding because if you don't you loose damage and sustain, heavy attacks are very fast on DW so it's a must, your Major Expedition buff is cheaper in DW and gives you 1.8-3.5k damage every proc.
You also never get the last passive from 2H playing a NB, having Grim Focus in front bar is way better than having Executioner, I don't run proc sets and I have enough damage to kill people without it, my 13k bow also helps with that and the bonus from Grim Focus are too strong I just cannot get back to Executioner after the 30k damage combo I can do with it.K1 The Big Monkey1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »I use both everyday and DW is better.
The heals are better, the dots are strong and the sustain is way better.
If you go dual wield Quick Cloak is a must, especially for solo because you can't solo without speed buff.
You shouldn't also listen the people telling you to run 5 Viper 2 Selene 5 Eternal Hunt, it may work against noobs but you will get stomped against a real opponent and running 3 proc sets at once makes you get worse every day you spend running those and the day they get nerfed or capped to 1 you won't even be able to kill a mudcrab.
Why is the sustain better?
You lose 30% stam recovery for 10s per kill, you lose mobility and a better execute.
I personally prefer 2H, but I don't gank, I don't use proc sets, and I like to use a bow as well.
With that said, I know the way this game works, and damage > sustain.
For one that 30% is granted only when you kill someone, and therefore the 2H is just as good for sustain as Piercing Mark is as a burst heal.
When you DW you hit harder, and your heals are stronger. You also can apply more pressure with DoTs, and you have better Survivability with Quick Cloak.
I've always been a 2H kind of guy. I used the 2H in Skyrim, DCUO, and I use the longsword in Monster Hunter. It's my aesthetic preference, I am very successful with it; and I build my character around it.
With that said, like proc sets I recognize the power of DW, and have been very tempted to going that direction in the past, but I've stayed a non proc 2H/Bow user.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Honestly the 2H is only best for two classes in my opinion; and that is the Warden, and the Sorc.0 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭@Kay1 How does someone get worse everyday from using a setup like that? Isn't vertical progression happening everyday once someone logs in and puts the effort in? Elaborate please.
Also; any ETA on video of VMOL clear without buffed food? @KingYogi415 and I have been waiting, you did say you'd show us. Quite a feat really.The Flyers0 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Honestly the 2H is only best for two classes in my opinion; and that is the Warden, and the Sorc.
I'd say the best classes would be NB and Templar, the classes without major brutality built in.The Flyers1 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Kay1 How does someone get worse everyday from using a setup like that? Isn't vertical progression happening everyday once someone logs in and puts the effort in? Elaborate please.
Also; any ETA on video of VMOL clear without buffed food? @KingYogi415 and I have been waiting, you did say you'd show us. Quite a feat really.
No, using procs makes you rely on them to deal damage, so if you loose them you won't be able to do anything, you also don't think because you light attack and 3 procs fires from you while I have to think, organize a combo and cancel bash every single skill to maximize my dps and to be able to kill players, I only rely on my skills and myself so if you compare someone who decides to play like me with someone who is used to get carried by his gear I think the difference between them will be abysmal.
I'm currently running 0 proc sets and no vigor and I'm doing 1vXs, imagine if after a week playing like this I start wearing a proc set and vigor? That's vertical progression, not wearing a set and letting it play for you.
K1 The Big Monkey0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »I use both everyday and DW is better.
The heals are better, the dots are strong and the sustain is way better.
If you go dual wield Quick Cloak is a must, especially for solo because you can't solo without speed buff.
You shouldn't also listen the people telling you to run 5 Viper 2 Selene 5 Eternal Hunt, it may work against noobs but you will get stomped against a real opponent and running 3 proc sets at once makes you get worse every day you spend running those and the day they get nerfed or capped to 1 you won't even be able to kill a mudcrab.
Why is the sustain better?
You lose 30% stam recovery for 10s per kill, you lose mobility and a better execute.
I personally prefer 2H, but I don't gank, I don't use proc sets, and I like to use a bow as well.
With that said, I know the way this game works, and damage > sustain.
For one that 30% is granted only when you kill someone, and therefore the 2H is just as good for sustain as Piercing Mark is as a burst heal.
When you DW you hit harder, and your heals are stronger. You also can apply more pressure with DoTs, and you have better Survivability with Quick Cloak.
I've always been a 2H kind of guy. I used the 2H in Skyrim, DCUO, and I use the longsword in Monster Hunter. It's my aesthetic preference, I am very successful with it; and I build my character around it.
With that said, like proc sets I recognize the power of DW, and have been very tempted to going that direction in the past, but I've stayed a non proc 2H/Bow user.
We are in the same boat, I also always try to play 2h, I just like it way more from personal point of view.
What I bad succees with were the following 2 setups:
Vsma 2h - master bow - 5x bone pirate - 3x agility - Monster set
Vsma 2h - master bow - bone pirate - shacklebrraker (the max mag + mag sustain is very useful for cloak).0 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭@Kay1 How does someone get worse everyday from using a setup like that? Isn't vertical progression happening everyday once someone logs in and puts the effort in? Elaborate please.
Also; any ETA on video of VMOL clear without buffed food? @KingYogi415 and I have been waiting, you did say you'd show us. Quite a feat really.
No, using procs makes you rely on them to deal damage, so if you loose them you won't be able to do anything, you also don't think because you light attack and 3 procs fires from you while I have to think, organize a combo and cancel bash every single skill to maximize my dps and to be able to kill players, I only rely on my skills and myself so if you compare someone who decides to play like me with someone who is used to get carried by his gear I think the difference between them will be abysmal.
I'm currently running 0 proc sets and no vigor and I'm doing 1vXs, imagine if after a week playing like this I start wearing a proc set and vigor? That's vertical progression, not wearing a set and letting it play for you.
Completely arbitrary. Why? Because any and everyone can organize combos and cancel bash every single skill to maximize dps and be able to kill players; while using proc sets as well. Yet you use that as an example of skill, does it take more skill without proc sets, or just more time? Sure it does. At the same time no one is comparing proc sets to your zero proc sets and no vigor 1vX builds, only you are.
I can see your bias and I understand, but don't let it get in the way of the point I brought up. I don't like proc sets in it's current form either but you shouldn't tell others that they will only get worse from using a particular setup, that is incorrect. You can only get better at this game.
The Flyers0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Kay1 How does someone get worse everyday from using a setup like that? Isn't vertical progression happening everyday once someone logs in and puts the effort in? Elaborate please.
Also; any ETA on video of VMOL clear without buffed food? @KingYogi415 and I have been waiting, you did say you'd show us. Quite a feat really.
No, using procs makes you rely on them to deal damage, so if you loose them you won't be able to do anything, you also don't think because you light attack and 3 procs fires from you while I have to think, organize a combo and cancel bash every single skill to maximize my dps and to be able to kill players, I only rely on my skills and myself so if you compare someone who decides to play like me with someone who is used to get carried by his gear I think the difference between them will be abysmal.
I'm currently running 0 proc sets and no vigor and I'm doing 1vXs, imagine if after a week playing like this I start wearing a proc set and vigor? That's vertical progression, not wearing a set and letting it play for you.
Completely arbitrary. Why? Because any and everyone can organize combos and cancel bash every single skill to maximize dps and be able to kill players; while using proc sets as well. Yet you use that as an example of skill, does it take more skill without proc sets, or just more time? Sure it does. At the same time no one is comparing proc sets to your zero proc sets and no vigor 1vX builds, only you are.
I can see your bias and I understand, but don't let it get in the way of the point I brought up. I don't like proc sets in it's current form either but you shouldn't tell others that they will only get worse from using a particular setup, that is incorrect. You can only get better at this game.
Not if you don't need and that's the point, you don't need to put effort on what you are doing while using proc sets (I'm talking about people running 2-3 proc sets, running one is not the imbalance with proc sets).
In fact it's true, I'm not gonna put the players I know as an example because I don't think you play on my platform but let me put you a famous player as an example.
SypherPK, watch a video from SypherPK pre Shadows of the Hist and watch a video of Sypher after One Tamriel or now, he's not the same player, he went from being as fast as another famous player like Kodi to forget to cancel his executes, he don't even bash cancel anymore same goes for Fengrush, from 0 to 3 proc sets, FENGRUSH was an insane stamsorc and now I see him playing and I fall asleep, I can give you hundreds of examples of players from my server who went from 0 procs to 2-3 and their skill completely changed and it's just the truth, if you get carried by the gear you wear the day you won't be able to use them you will be lost, sure you can adapt back and you will if you are experienced but to me there's nothing more rewarding than killing players without my build doing it for me.
Of course everything I say is my opinion but the fact that relying on proc sets reduces your skill as a player is true.
Challenging yourself going solo, or without pots, procs or vigor does make you better because you are fighting opponents with a big disadvantage.Edited by Kay1 on June 21, 2017 1:46PMK1 The Big Monkey2 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »I use both everyday and DW is better.
The heals are better, the dots are strong and the sustain is way better.
If you go dual wield Quick Cloak is a must, especially for solo because you can't solo without speed buff.
You shouldn't also listen the people telling you to run 5 Viper 2 Selene 5 Eternal Hunt, it may work against noobs but you will get stomped against a real opponent and running 3 proc sets at once makes you get worse every day you spend running those and the day they get nerfed or capped to 1 you won't even be able to kill a mudcrab.
Why is the sustain better?
You lose 30% stam recovery for 10s per kill, you lose mobility and a better execute.
Dw/2h builds use speed pots. Or at least i do. Speed/Stamina/Immovable. No need to roll dodge for speed.
Killers blade does actually more damage then executioner and is faster to animation cancel. Also procs minor defile which is 21% if you buff befoul in cp.
In the cases where your not in execute range >25% surprise att does more damage then executioner anyway.
In a situation where your cant kill players, the passives from dw outshine 2h. The second enchant provides very good combo oriented burst. Heavy attacks are also faster with dw.
There are pros and cons to both dw/2h and 2h/bow. Just depends the fight. I very much prefer cloak heavy weaving with dw/2h.
Its more of an agree to disagree thing going on. As someone who has mastered dw/2h and been playing that build for nearly 2 years, i couldnt see myself switching to anything else.
Woodelfs benifit most from 2h/bow. As an Imperal, dw/2h is very good since i dont need to spec into health and have much more magicka recovery then your standard 2h/bow build. This allows me to run eff-purge to counter poison inj. Sitting at 1750 stam and magicka recovery. It feels so good.
Edited by GreenSoup2HoT on June 21, 2017 3:27PMPS4 NA DC0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Honestly the 2H is only best for two classes in my opinion; and that is the Warden, and the Sorc.
Nah. Sword and board is better on warden and dual wield is better on sorc, imo.1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Honestly the 2H is only best for two classes in my opinion; and that is the Warden, and the Sorc.
Nah. Sword and board is better on warden and dual wield is better on sorc, imo.
The Scorch + Dawnbreaker + Reverse Slice is too good to give up for the Warden.
As far as sorcs go, stack snares, then use an immovable + speed pot, and you'll run circles around your opponent; making an uppercut build semi possible.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If your not dropping people left and right as a stam nb your not doing your job right.
@Kay1 Procs don't have anything to do with skill, people don't get slower etc...
Procs are just best in slot currently, thats just a fact. I don't like procs either but all you doing to yourself when you white knight them is put yourself at a disadvantage. The zergs aren't going to suddenly decide to take 2-3 people off you because you not using procs. They're going to use it against you.
I just prefer 2h i guess, some people prefer dw.
I like having the range of bow, the movement speed so i have the ability to use tri pots. Injection is so good vs tankier character and mag sorc's.
I like executioner because it hits harder and i can use it before 25%, you can 1 hit people above 25% easily with it.
I like the extra regen because in a 1vX i rarely have time to heavy attack.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
CyrusArya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
As far as sorcs go, stack snares, then use an immovable + speed pot, and you'll run circles around your opponent; making an uppercut build semi possible.
Upper cut is literally one of the worst abilities in the game. As good as it is for stomping pugs, fighting a skilled opponent the precision of sword and board or dual wield will be far more effective.
Sub Assault>Dive>Invasion->Light Attack>Ransack>Bash>Dawnbreaker/Bear is 7 hits in under 4 seconds when lined up right. Throw in viper, tremor scale/selene/velidreth, and an oblivion damage glyph and thats 10 hits in under 4 seconds. I don't know in what universe that 2h combo outperforms the sword and board burst potential+superior passives.
As far as sorc goes, again, you are having to use uppercut. A dual wield spec utilizing trap beast can stack 4 dots while spamming flurry. Applying all the dots and then following up with a dawnbreaker that brings and enemy to low health means the very next tick on each will hit at 15(ruffian)+10(exploiter)+12(trap beast)=38% more damage on crits. This all not to mention that more hits per second= more chances to proc implosion, more healing off surge, and the ability to stack 2 more heals on top of vigor, rally, and surge that 2h does not offer. The pressure is overwhelming and again outclasses the slow and clunky 2h completely.
IMO, the 2h is an entry level beginners weapon for every class other than stamblade when compared to the proper use of dual wield or sword and board.1 -
Miruku✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »
1V1 DW 2h is better but in open world mobility is key 2H bow will always be better.0 -
2h:Ambush,Reverse slice or killer blade,Rally,Fear,Surprise attack Ultimate Incap
You can always use Quick cloak 25% reduction to AOE damage pretty strong plus major expedition.deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Just go DW main bar 2h back bar. Best of both worlds and works just fine. Learn to use speed pots if you can't live without hasty retreats major expedition bow passive.
Currently running 2h DW setup. Really liking it.Reduce damage of a lot of hard hitting abilities and ultimates and still hit really hard Plus a nice HOT and bleed from blood craze.
Could you please share your skillbar set up?
DW:Shuffle,Relentless/leeching,Quick cloak/Blood craze,vigor,cloak Ultimate Dawnbreaker/Soul tether.
Reverse slice cost 200 more stamina than killer blade not a huge lost of stam plus its AOE and have a higher Execute threshold.Killer blade can heal you but threshold starts at 25%.
Relentless minor berserk boost the damage of all you damage even the damage of your proc seta but not your heals.It always boost your stam recovery by 15%.
Leeching strikes give you a small heal over time as well as 106 stam per light and heavy attacks.Not great but better than nothing.
Blood craze give you a small HOT and bleed which goes through block.
Sometimes I drop Relentless and run Blood craze and run that and quick cloak.
Use crit rush instead of ambush and if you can pull it off rapids instead of shuffle. use cloak as you shuffle.Smiff0 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I run 2h maelstrom sword and a master bow 5 sheer venom and 5 senche also running drink kinda low heath but GREAT damage and survivability high magic and Stam recovery I can cloak after using a pot 15 times yes 15 times on a stam build and can roll roll roll all day0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Not every nightblade is a copy of yours. I run 1750 stamina and magicka recovery. Im not running out of magicka.PS4 NA DC1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah because we just have that many magicka abilities that we need to invest into magicka.0 -
Miruku✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Yeah because we just have that many magicka abilities that we need to invest into magicka.
Not saying that you invest into magicka but hey console plebs!0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You'll be using cloak a lot and should be ccing opponents on cooldown to be honest.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭2h back bar with DW front bar is a good setup if you can do without a bow, Rally is pretty much too good to pass up, esp for a squishy stambladePC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Yeah because we just have that many magicka abilities that we need to invest into magicka.
Not saying that you invest into magicka but hey console plebs!
That's not how you should speak to your superior
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »You'll be using cloak a lot and should be ccing opponents on cooldown to be honest.
I've actually taken cloak off my bar in BGs, and in IC. I don't PvP in Cyrodiil anymore.
The reason being is that in BGs it's so congested that you're constantly being taken out of cloak passively.
In IC it's due to the fact that gankblades cover that area like a hardened ward covers a sorc.0 -
Miruku✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Yeah because we just have that many magicka abilities that we need to invest into magicka.
Not saying that you invest into magicka but hey console plebs!
That's not how you should speak to your superior
The day you are my superior when it comes to the platform or skill is the day i uninstall my game.0 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »
Yeah because we just have that many magicka abilities that we need to invest into magicka.
Not saying that you invest into magicka but hey console plebs!
That's not how you should speak to your superior
The day you are my superior when it comes to the platform or skill is the day i uninstall my game.
now thats what i call a superiorty complex lol. mmo's never change.
PS4 NA DC0