To all the people who don't understand why crown crates are being complained about

Slurg · June 2017

Idylliqe wrote: »

The only thing I want to say about the "don't buy them if you don't like it" argument is this:

Its not like I LIKE the crates. I want the product in them. I like the new cosmetic upgrades I can give my character. BUT with this argument, I'm still missing out on content that I would gladly pay for if it were appropriately sold in the store because I want to "show the man". This makes me sad and still hurts me more than them in the end.

Is the content in them worth an infinite amount of money to you?

It used to be the case where people would come in and argue that you could buy any item of your choice you didn't "win" with crown gems after opening a fixed number of crates that cost somewhere in the ballpark of $200, and you had the bonus of "winning" a ton of other items you might not even want. I didn't see the value there but I understood their point of view. If you really wanted a certain item, at least you had some idea how much you might have to spend to get it and could make your decision accordingly.

Now there are items that can't even be purchased with the gems, and players are reporting the drop tables seem to be skewed toward dropping items that provide a lower number of gems than past seasons. Of course there are no official drop tables still so who knows for sure?

I hate missing out too but I'd rather miss out than spend an infinite sum of money for a digital cosmetic item that only exists in a game. I have other hobbies I can enjoy with that money.

JimT722 · June 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Lowering the drop rates is flirting with the legality line of bait and switch. Every company finds loops holes, but ZoS seems to be exploiting them on the levels of immorality - their intent no longer seems to be gain the good will of the customer service base and grow through their product, but now to use legal loopholes to gain an advantage over their customer base.

With Crown Crates, there is a known risk involved but if they are changing the risks without informing the customer service base then that run into all sorts of legality issues. Gambling is illegal in the majority of the United States, but there's obviously a work around for that and ZoS cannot admit to providing a gambling service. The argument can be made that ZoS is obligated to release any changes of the drop rates, so that customers can make an informed decision on their purchases. Hiding information, and changing information with notifying the customer, is considered bait and switch and can make the ground to make a case of providing an illegal service.

As a community we're very tame - sure we'll complain on threads but we don't band together and do what other gaming communities have done... actually seek legal advice.... or make enough noise to get mainstream press to take notice... or any of the other ways organised communities have forced companies of similar size to back down or at least compromise.

he won't do that cause there is no evidence whatsoever that the drop rates have been changed in the slightest.

That's the brilliance of this system. They can change the drop rate at any time. It's genius. We never know what the drop rate is so they can lower it whenever they want. Isn't that great for ZOS? Think of the possibilities for them. I can see why people like such a system and love to support it!

Turelus · June 2017

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

So...you're complaining about the people complaining about other people complaining about lockboxes?! The ESO forums ladies and gentlemen.
EDIT: if you don't like the boxes, don't get 'em. If you like 'em, get 'em. Simple really. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some more lockboxes to purchase.

And that's why we love it so much.

OP makes good points, I'd never (or rather forgotten) about the RP side of things.

Still, I don't see it changing. I'll fight it but I don't see it changing.

Doctordarkspawn · June 2017

People said their peace.

People continue to say their peace when they find new features they dislike.

But ohhh no, this is the forums, friend. You accept and drink the cool aid and praise ZOS on every single decision they ever make, or you GET OUT.

Joffi · June 2017

Tandor wrote: »

All fair and understood, but we must remember whenever these sorts of discussions arise that the argument that "the game doesn't revolve around you" always applies equally to both sides of the discussion.

It is called debate. Nice to see it can happen without name calling and general degradation. Kudos, thread participants.

Idylliqe · June 2017

Slurg wrote: »

Idylliqe wrote: »

The only thing I want to say about the "don't buy them if you don't like it" argument is this:

Its not like I LIKE the crates. I want the product in them. I like the new cosmetic upgrades I can give my character. BUT with this argument, I'm still missing out on content that I would gladly pay for if it were appropriately sold in the store because I want to "show the man". This makes me sad and still hurts me more than them in the end.

Is the content in them worth an infinite amount of money to you?

It used to be the case where people would come in and argue that you could buy any item of your choice you didn't "win" with crown gems after opening a fixed number of crates that cost somewhere in the ballpark of $200, and you had the bonus of "winning" a ton of other items you might not even want. I didn't see the value there but I understood their point of view. If you really wanted a certain item, at least you had some idea how much you might have to spend to get it and could make your decision accordingly.

Now there are items that can't even be purchased with the gems, and players are reporting the drop tables seem to be skewed toward dropping items that provide a lower number of gems than past seasons. Of course there are no official drop tables still so who knows for sure?

I hate missing out too but I'd rather miss out than spend an infinite sum of money for a digital cosmetic item that only exists in a game. I have other hobbies I can enjoy with that money.

No, its not worth an infinite amount. That's why were complaining lol. What I'm saying is that whether you choose to spend money or not, we're both losing out in the end. We can argue with each other all day but the only winner is ZOS.

Aliyavana · June 2017

Lol

Tavore1138 · June 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Lowering the drop rates is flirting with the legality line of bait and switch. Every company finds loops holes, but ZoS seems to be exploiting them on the levels of immorality - their intent no longer seems to be gain the good will of the customer service base and grow through their product, but now to use legal loopholes to gain an advantage over their customer base.

With Crown Crates, there is a known risk involved but if they are changing the risks without informing the customer service base then that run into all sorts of legality issues. Gambling is illegal in the majority of the United States, but there's obviously a work around for that and ZoS cannot admit to providing a gambling service. The argument can be made that ZoS is obligated to release any changes of the drop rates, so that customers can make an informed decision on their purchases. Hiding information, and changing information with notifying the customer, is considered bait and switch and can make the ground to make a case of providing an illegal service.

As a community we're very tame - sure we'll complain on threads but we don't band together and do what other gaming communities have done... actually seek legal advice.... or make enough noise to get mainstream press to take notice... or any of the other ways organised communities have forced companies of similar size to back down or at least compromise.

he won't do that cause there is no evidence whatsoever that the drop rates have been changed in the slightest.

I could post my results as people have done before but we know the response to that is that they would not be statistically significant.

I'm sure someone will do a sheet but that too will not be relevant because ZOS have avoided doing what is legally required in several nations they do this in and posting the actual odds. They weasel out of it by claiming that this is not gambling but an in game gamble and thus does not apply... my limited reading of IT law suggests that this excuse has not actually been legally tested in most nations so someone with the right group could actually test this one with who knows what results...

lagrue · June 2017

puffytheslayer wrote: »

but if you (and all the other people) didnt buy the crown crates, they would be considered a fail and those items would be made available in the actual crown store!

See the problem with that logic is that somebody new will always come along and buy more, there will always be whales, there will always be people who try again.

No matter what anybody wants to believe, they aren't going to go away.

ESO's crown crates are never going to be not purchased enough for ZOS to reconsider the model now - it's already proven to work in their favour.

The issue is they're getting more greedy - if the drop rates were similar to the first season - I don't think many people would complain.

We've seen them do scummier things each season though. In the Wild Hunt season they had 4 different basically copy pasta hats of Antlers - with the only difference between any of them being how many points or on the Antlers. Talk about diluting the drop tables.

Now this season we have the NIx Hound debacle - alongside "hidden" special mounts which can't even be purchased for crowns.

The problem is, even though we got burned - they already got our money which means guess what - there will be a next season. It's too late to think they're going away.

I actually LIKED crown crates until I got 15 nix hounds. And I'm not along - it's no longer an RNG or luck based system - you're almost guaranteed to get the same garbage over and over.

lagrue · June 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Lowering the drop rates is flirting with the legality line of bait and switch. Every company finds loops holes, but ZoS seems to be exploiting them on the levels of immorality - their intent no longer seems to be gain the good will of the customer service base and grow through their product, but now to use legal loopholes to gain an advantage over their customer base.

With Crown Crates, there is a known risk involved but if they are changing the risks without informing the customer service base then that run into all sorts of legality issues. Gambling is illegal in the majority of the United States, but there's obviously a work around for that and ZoS cannot admit to providing a gambling service. The argument can be made that ZoS is obligated to release any changes of the drop rates, so that customers can make an informed decision on their purchases. Hiding information, and changing information with notifying the customer, is considered bait and switch and can make the ground to make a case of providing an illegal service.

As a community we're very tame - sure we'll complain on threads but we don't band together and do what other gaming communities have done... actually seek legal advice.... or make enough noise to get mainstream press to take notice... or any of the other ways organised communities have forced companies of similar size to back down or at least compromise.

he won't do that cause there is no evidence whatsoever that the drop rates have been changed in the slightest.

The anectdotal evidence speaks volumes. The majority of people are having the same thing happen. You can wear your blinders all day, but the people getting screwed are starting to realize what's going on.

If this was an isolated or rare case, your shortsighted comment might actually hold some weight - but this is happening in too large of volumes to be merely conincidence... the drop rates have been changed, anybody with two eyes can see that.

Why don't you sit down right now and buy 30 crates - stream for all of us to see so we can watch how random it is that you get you 15 Nix Hounds minimum.

Better yet - save yourself some money, read the forum comments then go watch all the Dwemer Crate streams and watch the same thing happening across the board.

Axoinus · June 2017

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

The only way to solve this is to complain about the OP complaining about the complaints on complaints about the crown store.

Also, needs a poll to determine which layer of complaints is correct.

Lavennin · June 2017

Wasn't it you who posted the "people that don't want hiding vampirism being an option are selfish" (or something like that)? You seem to want to attack people who disagree with you ("selfish", "does not revolve around you" etc.) rather than calmly stating your point. Why must I - if I feel that your complaint is unjustified, be called selfish? Or rather, why isn't your complaint selfish in nature, why is it not you who wants the game to revolve around you? After all, the crates are a nice way to make some money for the company. And you as a customer, for RP reason (well, it was RP last time as well. I don't really think it's about RP but that's besides the point), want them to remove a working business model.

Don't attack people for being selfish. It's...immature, to say the least.

*I am not against the removal of crates or the addition of mortal skin. I simply find the two posts irritating.

**please don't use RP as an excuse for everything. In this case, as in the case of the vampire skin, it really makes no freaking sense. You can RP as mortal with a vampire character. So can you RP having a certain pet. You just want something, and hate not having it. It's all.

Beardimus · June 2017

You can't complain about them. And buy them. Full stop.

If you don't like the model, don't support it. As long as its a commercial success they will continue.

Don't open the screen, don't look at the kit, have some self control. Or just commit to it, if that's how you want to play ensure you have the bank till to manage it!

MrDenimChicken · June 2017

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

lol so what are you saying?

Zos is lame and doesn't deserve respect and so are you if you think Zos is lame and doesn't deserve respect

It's just gambling thrown in a game...honestly who cares. There already existed outrageously priced horribly made skin paint (i mean armor and costumes).

It's way worse that they have a game that is broken as hell and gives you 2 FPS in zerg fights (which are supposed to be like, the most important part of pvp in this game

LadyDestiny · June 2017

My complaint is not buying them. It's an mmo and I fully support Zos with sub and anyway I can. The problem is in their rng system. The whole game is centered around a crappy rng that is in severe need of fixing. Spending bookoo bucks on crates to get three cards of poisons, potions, or with a duplicate costume, pet and ugly green guar mount that drops five times in a stack of crates is just ridiculous. They need to up the rng chance and make customers happy. I would definitely buy more crates if I received better rewards in them. It caters more to gambling addicts they are compulsive buyers when they don't win. The sad part is how expensive everything is only to get burned over and over again.

Aliyavana · June 2017

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

lol so what are you saying?

Zos is lame and doesn't deserve respect and so are you if you think Zos is lame and doesn't deserve respect

It's just gambling thrown in a game...honestly who cares. There already existed outrageously priced horribly made skin paint (i mean armor and costumes).

It's way worse that they have a game that is broken as hell and gives you 2 FPS in zerg fights (which are supposed to be like, the most important part of pvp in this game

I never said that

STEVIL · June 2017

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

yeah but... there is a G in RPG too and that G mean GAME.

if for RPG reasons i want the titles or good that come from completing VMA, but i dont actually want to go run thru and beat VMA to get them, does that mean i have a valid complaint about those goods /services being locked behind GAME requirements?

R may be the first letter, but it does not trump all the others.

if you want to get knickers twisted over your needed R being locked behind "stuff i dont like doing" that is your option of course, but while lecturing others about different perspectives, consider the VMA staff thing and all the other "i want it too but i dont want to do the stuff they make me do to get it" cases that you are tacitly endorsing.

As yoda said "there is no cry. there is do or not do. grow a pair Skywalker should."

Or was that the bad yoda voiced by billy bob thorton in that easter movie? hard to remember.

:-)

Aliyavana · June 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

yeah but... there is a G in RPG too and that G mean GAME.

if for RPG reasons i want the titles or good that come from completing VMA, but i dont actually want to go run thru and beat VMA to get them, does that mean i have a valid complaint about those goods /services being locked behind GAME requirements?

R may be the first letter, but it does not trump all the others.

if you want to get knickers twisted over your needed R being locked behind "stuff i dont like doing" that is your option of course, but while lecturing others about different perspectives, consider the VMA staff thing and all the other "i want it too but i dont want to do the stuff they make me do to get it" cases that you are tacitly endorsing.

As yoda said "there is no cry. there is do or not do. grow a pair Skywalker should."

Or was that the bad yoda voiced by billy bob thorton in that easter movie? hard to remember.

:-)

What the actual *** does locking items behind gameplay have to do with crown crates?

Slack · June 2017

"Just know that you have lost all my respect, but here take all my money you ***!!"

Well lol. There is already enough options to make your character look unique without having to invest any €€€ $$$ ¥¥¥.
And even if a single crown crate had the price of 100€ and people still bought it, it's their own fault.
Something like that is an awesome source of making money and I can see nothing wrong by ZOS.

You know it's a gamble, you know you can get *** drops and you know how much it costs.
So every sane individual should be able to decide themselves if it's worth or not