To all the people who don't understand why crown crates are being complained about

Aliyavana

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

Absolut_Turkey

So...you're complaining about the people complaining about other people complaining about lockboxes?! The ESO forums ladies and gentlemen.
EDIT: if you don't like the boxes, don't get 'em. If you like 'em, get 'em. Simple really. Now if you'll excuse me, I have some more lockboxes to purchase.

Tandor

All fair and understood, but we must remember whenever these sorts of discussions arise that the argument that "the game doesn't revolve around you" always applies equally to both sides of the discussion.

bebynnag

but if you (and all the other people) didnt buy the crown crates, they would be considered a fail and those items would be made available in the actual crown store!

Aliyavana

Tandor wrote: »

All fair and understood, but we must remember whenever these sorts of discussions arise that the argument that "the game doesn't revolve around you" always applies equally to both sides of the discussion.

So whats the counter argument then?

TragedyOA

wow just wow

Aliyavana

TragedyOA wrote: »

wow just wow

Ikr

Abeille

This is one of the reasons, yes. There are some others though. I'm waiting for an audience but I don't have much time so I'll be brief:

Lots of us have previous experience with this kind of thing in other games. It doesn't get better with time - in fact, ZOS just made the system hey had in place even worse (read: more unfriendly to the consumer) with this Crown Crate season. There was a compromise, people could get what they wanted after a while of accumulating gems, the gamble was finite; this isn't the case anymore.

Also the overall quality of the contents in this season of Crown Crates is just sad, but this is just my opinion.

puffytheslayer wrote: »

but if you (and all the other people) didnt buy the crown crates, they would be considered a fail and those items would be made available in the actual crown store!

Or

More stuff would be put in them until people start buying more.

Which is exactly what happened.

Artemiisia

im gonna complain about this thread

happy weekend all

Dracindo

So, what are we trying to accomplish with this topic, here?

Or did you just want call a certain group of people 'inconsiderate A-holes'? Everybody has a right to complain. Even complain against others their complaints.

Idylliqe

The only thing I want to say about the "don't buy them if you don't like it" argument is this:

Its not like I LIKE the crates. I want the product in them. I like the new cosmetic upgrades I can give my character. BUT with this argument, I'm still missing out on content that I would gladly pay for if it were appropriately sold in the store because I want to "show the man". This makes me sad and still hurts me more than them in the end.

Abeille

Dracindo wrote: »

So, what are we trying to accomplish with this topic, here?

I'll guess: Seeing the threads full of people who didn't read he arguments against the crates and are complaining about the people who don't like the system in place without knowing what they are talking about, OP is trying to provide an explanation and hoping these people who don't know why there is an opposition to the crates will read it this time.

I find it nice that OP is trying, but the people who think "lol just don't buy it" and "ZOS has to make money somehow" arguments are valid even though they don't address any of the issues people have with the crates will just ignore this too. Maybe if we try a tl;dr, since they never read the arguments?

JKorr

puffytheslayer wrote: »

but if you (and all the other people) didnt buy the crown crates, they would be considered a fail and those items would be made available in the actual crown store!

um...probably not. The person they hired who has a past history of monetizing everything possible is still working for ZOS, afaik. If no one bought the clown crates, they would continue to add more items that would be crate exclusive, until they finally *did* get people to buy the clown crates. If people still wouldn't buy the clown crates, chances are good that real pay to win items would show up to add even more incentive to buy the clown crates. Fewer and fewer items would be for outright sale to keep the clown crates selling.

Electrone_Magnus

It sickens me to see people openly supporting crates. They're getting worse now with exclusive mounts only available through rng. If you do buy them at least stop arguing against people like op as they have a valid point and are only trying to make things better for you. Imagine if the dro mathra cub was available in the crown store, we could have gotten it for probably 1200 crowns max like the hearthfire kagouti pet. With 3 crown crates your looking at maybe 20 gems and terribly low odds of the pet dropping. Do you really like that? Spending $40 for a virtual pet when you could buy a game for the price?

SanTii.92

Oh but I get that the complains are motivated for not getting what you want, but I feel like you guys aren't considering the full picture here.

Crown crates are mostly designed for those willing to drop a lot a cash into the game, the so called whales if you will, that otherwise, without them they would run out of things to buy.

This gamble boxes are a very common practice on the scene (even league of legends have fully embrace them), and most likely a very profitable one. It cannot be expected from Zos not to implemented them, and take care of them, in such a competitive market that is massive online games.

I get that you would rather be able to directly buy them, but something desirable have to be there, and at the end we want cosmectics or gameplay related mechanics?

DocFrost72

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

Can we get rid of BOP too so I never have to deal with RNG and can direct buy the gear I need?

*InB4 'it's not the same' or 'Why you have to flame'- I genuinely think if one comes, the other should*

Abeille

DocFrost72 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

Can we get rid of BOP too so I never have to deal with RNG and can direct buy the gear I need?

*InB4 'it's not the same' or 'Why you have to flame'- I genuinely think if one comes, the other should*

I support getting rid of BOP, even if it isn't the subject of this thread. I want to sell more stuff.

Tavore1138

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Oh but I get that the complains are motivated for not getting what you want, but I feel like you guys aren't considering the full picture here.

Crown crates are mostly designed for those willing to drop a lot a cash into the game, the so called whales if you will, that otherwise, without them they would run out of things to buy.

This gamble boxes are a very common practice on the scene (even league of legends have fully embrace them), and most likely a very profitable one. It cannot be expected from Zos not to implemented them, and take care of them, in such a competitive market that is massive online games.

I get that you would rather be able to directly buy them, but something desirable have to be there, and at the end we want cosmectics or gameplay related mechanics?

I dunno, I have dropped over £2k since launch - no idea which end of the whale scale that puts me on... my only real objection to this season is that they have hidden 3 extra mounts behind such high levels of RNG that I am simply not willing to spend the necessary money to collect them, That then breaks my ability to collect all the mounts in the game (which I currently have) and actually makes me far less likely to bother with future crown crates.

Essentially they are overfishing this whale... not a smart business tactic... unless I am on the low end of spenders which I might be for all I know...

P.S. Sure dump BOP except on the truly unique stuff - then I can sell these darned prosperous Embershield Shields...

WhitePawPrints

Lowering the drop rates is flirting with the legality line of bait and switch. Every company finds loops holes, but ZoS seems to be exploiting them on the levels of immorality - their intent no longer seems to be gain the good will of the customer service base and grow through their product, but now to use legal loopholes to gain an advantage over their customer base.

With Crown Crates, there is a known risk involved but if they are changing the risks without informing the customer service base then that run into all sorts of legality issues. Gambling is illegal in the majority of the United States, but there's obviously a work around for that and ZoS cannot admit to providing a gambling service. The argument can be made that ZoS is obligated to release any changes of the drop rates, so that customers can make an informed decision on their purchases. Hiding information, and changing information without notifying the customer, is considered bait and switch and can make the ground to make a case of providing an illegal service.

DocFrost72

@WhitePawPrints they did, to be fair, warn people about the drop only in the launcher load up and on their site. Not saying the practice is savory, but they didn't do anything legally wrong.

SanTii.92

Tavore1138 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Oh but I get that the complains are motivated for not getting what you want, but I feel like you guys aren't considering the full picture here.

Crown crates are mostly designed for those willing to drop a lot a cash into the game, the so called whales if you will, that otherwise, without them they would run out of things to buy.

This gamble boxes are a very common practice on the scene (even league of legends have fully embrace them), and most likely a very profitable one. It cannot be expected from Zos not to implemented them, and take care of them, in such a competitive market that is massive online games.

I get that you would rather be able to directly buy them, but something desirable have to be there, and at the end we want cosmectics or gameplay related mechanics?

I dunno, I have dropped over £2k since launch - no idea which end of the whale scale that puts me on... my only real objection to this season is that they have hidden 3 extra mounts behind such high levels of RNG that I am simply not willing to spend the necessary money to collect them, That then breaks my ability to collect all the mounts in the game (which I currently have) and actually makes me far less likely to bother with future crown crates.

Essentially they are overfishing this whale... not a smart business tactic... unless I am on the low end of spenders which I might be for all I know...

P.S. Sure dump BOP except on the truly unique stuff - then I can sell these darned prosperous Embershield Shields...

Maybe, it's a risky move that can backfire, like in your case, but if them adding those mounts tell me anything is that they are willing to compromise cause the crates are doing well, but could do better.

Pure speculation of course.

grizzledcroc

Ugh all the apologist's arnt gonna get the pet drop rate problem fixed or at least addressed. I still wish the crates never exsisted and they would just sell all this stuff in the store or add em into the game .Im loosing hope that ZOS will ever make anything for the game that isnt gonna be used for monetization even after having so many avenues for money . At least if they are gonna do these con crates they may as well be consistent with previous seasons instead of getting worse and worse.

josiahva

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

You are enabling the crown crate idea though. You are buying them. If you dont like the gamble, dont buy them. If it didnt sell ZoS wouldn't do it. So as long as you buy them, you are part of the problem, and as part of the problem you have no right to complain about said problem.

As for me...I buy crown crates with extra crowns that aren't enough to buy me anything useful, but I do NOT buy crowns to get crown crates...that would be stupid.

Stopnaggin

Abeille wrote: »

This is one of the reasons, yes. There are some others though. I'm waiting for an audience but I don't have much time so I'll be brief:

Lots of us have previous experience with this kind of thing in other games. It doesn't get better with time - in fact, ZOS just made the system hey had in place even worse (read: more unfriendly to the consumer) with this Crown Crate season. There was a compromise, people could get what they wanted after a while of accumulating gems, the gamble was finite; this isn't the case anymore.

Also the overall quality of the contents in this season of Crown Crates is just sad, but this is just my opinion.

puffytheslayer wrote: »

but if you (and all the other people) didnt buy the crown crates, they would be considered a fail and those items would be made available in the actual crown store!

Or

More stuff would be put in them until people start buying more.

Which is exactly what happened.

Someone gets it, people aren't bitching anout the crates themselves, they are bitching about the return on investment. Which has decreased this season. I would buy crates up to the point where I had enough gems to buy what I wanted, this time there is no guarantee to get what I want.

DocFrost72

Abeille wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

Can we get rid of BOP too so I never have to deal with RNG and can direct buy the gear I need?

*InB4 'it's not the same' or 'Why you have to flame'- I genuinely think if one comes, the other should*

I support getting rid of BOP, even if it isn't the subject of this thread. I want to sell more stuff.

Respectfully, the subject of the thread is how having the chance to put an infinite amount of time or resources into the game only to come away empty handed is a bad change, no?

There was a similar change in PvE not all too long ago (and tbh, trial sets and monster helms were and are always BoP).

I suppose I got triggered by the the OP saying "Spare a thought for the rest of us" As though every other aspect of the game didn't already have ludicrous levels of RNG without promise of reward. Seemed kind of... silly.

So yeah: gems and token system would be nice, and both two sides of the same consumer friendly coin.

Stopnaggin

josiahva wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

There's a few of you all out there that are complaining about the complaints on crown crates. Don't buy it? It's your fault? It's a mmoRpg, know what the r in rpg is?it means roleplay, a form of gameplay. Just because it has no effect on your style of gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't affect another and I gotta say cosmetics mean alot in rp. Some people like myself really want to have some of the items behind the crates, while I would rather buy them directly, that dro mathra cub has to be gambled for and I will relunctantly buy the crates. ofc zos has lost my respect, esp with the clearly weighted rng (dam nix-hounds). So remember that the game doesn't revolve around you and there is more gameplay out there.

Hint hint: add the telvanni cephalopod helm to the crownstore

You are enabling the crown crate idea though. You are buying them. If you dont like the gamble, dont buy them. If it didnt sell ZoS wouldn't do it. So as long as you buy them, you are part of the problem, and as part of the problem you have no right to complain about said problem.

As for me...I buy crown crates with extra crowns that aren't enough to buy me anything useful, but I do NOT buy crowns to get crown crates...that would be stupid.

You assume it's about the gamble, it's not. All of us that bought crates before understood the gamble. Now there is no finite amount of crates to buy for a certain reward. With the addition of crate exclusive mounts it doesn't matter how many I buy, there is no guarantee that I will get that mount. On top of that the system has changed making it even harder to get gems. They have added more reguar reward meaning less duplicates per purchase. Then we have the weighted system or bug, where nix hounds seem to be in a greater percentage than the retriever was last season. Another example would be the motifs added to the rewards, 200 gems and you can buy one, but if you get on the gem exchange is 33. Somehow the math doesn't jive here.

So as a person who would spend a couple hundred on crates, I find this puts a bad taste in my mouth. I had no problem with the gambling aspect, the problem is they have changed the odds of winning.

aisriyth_ESO

Tandor wrote: »

All fair and understood, but we must remember whenever these sorts of discussions arise that the argument that "the game doesn't revolve around you" always applies equally to both sides of the discussion.

Well that is true, the issue here is people complaining about the current issues with crown crates are doing so because they allowed ZoS to do them and now they are putting in a much more predatory experience.

Sure, many people will still buy them and that is great. Great, this post isn't directed at you, continue enjoying the game.

Sure, many people didn't buy them before and will continue not to. Great, this post isn't directed at you, continue enjoying the game.

Sure, some players may buy crown crates to support ZoS but aren't a fan of the increasingly predatory experience. These posts are directly related to a lot of them as their enjoyment of the game is becoming increasingly less.

Sure, some players may buy or may not buy but will argue that it is the player base that should stop whining. The fact is, these posts are not for you either. They offer the argument of just don't buy it? Well, many won't, some might because they are hoping they can get ZoS to listen without having to go all the way. Many, like me want to try to collect everything for the game they love and hope it doesn't have to turn into something that constantly offers anxiety. Again, an argument will be made 'its just a game' who are those people to tell others how they feel about something? If someone has anxiety over collecting in game items, it doesn't cause you any issue other then possibly benefiting from selling them items in game for gold or seeing continued development on the game you both mutually play.

The counter arguments to these posts should never be dismissive because a large amount of these players spend money, some spend copious amounts of money that directly feeds into development of more things. To write these concerns off as "just don't buy it" could be disastrous for everyone. What if they don't buy it anymore? If enough do that, then sure ZoS may listen, but the damage may be done already. It is fairly common that once an MMO loses a player its unlikely they will ever return.The fact is, yes, we did allow this to happen at first but at what point does it get to much and we all lose?

So, ZoS has a choice, they can either turn and burn their player base. Alternatively, they can attempt to bring in new blood with development of new things, while maintaining the old player bases loyalty by not predating them so aggressively.

At the end of the day, the point many of these posts are making, is a cry to try to stop ZoS from continuing on with marketing scheme. Most of us already know RNG boxes are duplicitous but we can handle them as long as they had gems, or follow the lead of other companies, like unable to get duplicates or make everything BoE so you can sell it for in game gold. I urge you all that come into these threads just to say "just don't buy it", "suck it up, your own fault", "you enable it" to reconsider to at least let the conversation stay in a manner that could positively benefit the entire player base instead of tear it apart.

WhitePawPrints

DocFrost72 wrote: »

@WhitePawPrints they did, to be fair, warn people about the drop only in the launcher load up and on their site. Not saying the practice is savory, but they didn't do anything legally wrong.

ZoS may think that they didn't violate any laws, but laws and legalities are never black and white. Certainly ZoS is not stupid enough to directly violate any laws however, judges exist for a reason. The intent is often enough for judges to throw out signed contracts and hold companies responsible for exploiting customers. The difference is those are usually dealing with thousands of dollars (usually cheaper vehicles sold by dealerships), instead of the tiny amount that is spent on Crown Crates. No one is willing to invest time or money on such a small issue, which is what ZoS may be depending on.

Tavore1138

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Lowering the drop rates is flirting with the legality line of bait and switch. Every company finds loops holes, but ZoS seems to be exploiting them on the levels of immorality - their intent no longer seems to be gain the good will of the customer service base and grow through their product, but now to use legal loopholes to gain an advantage over their customer base.

With Crown Crates, there is a known risk involved but if they are changing the risks without informing the customer service base then that run into all sorts of legality issues. Gambling is illegal in the majority of the United States, but there's obviously a work around for that and ZoS cannot admit to providing a gambling service. The argument can be made that ZoS is obligated to release any changes of the drop rates, so that customers can make an informed decision on their purchases. Hiding information, and changing information with notifying the customer, is considered bait and switch and can make the ground to make a case of providing an illegal service.

As a community we're very tame - sure we'll complain on threads but we don't band together and do what other gaming communities have done... actually seek legal advice.... or make enough noise to get mainstream press to take notice... or any of the other ways organised communities have forced companies of similar size to back down or at least compromise.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Eso Forums = Complaining^3

New equation for the grand unified theory. Got it.

SanTii.92

Tavore1138 wrote: »

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

Lowering the drop rates is flirting with the legality line of bait and switch. Every company finds loops holes, but ZoS seems to be exploiting them on the levels of immorality - their intent no longer seems to be gain the good will of the customer service base and grow through their product, but now to use legal loopholes to gain an advantage over their customer base.

With Crown Crates, there is a known risk involved but if they are changing the risks without informing the customer service base then that run into all sorts of legality issues. Gambling is illegal in the majority of the United States, but there's obviously a work around for that and ZoS cannot admit to providing a gambling service. The argument can be made that ZoS is obligated to release any changes of the drop rates, so that customers can make an informed decision on their purchases. Hiding information, and changing information with notifying the customer, is considered bait and switch and can make the ground to make a case of providing an illegal service.

As a community we're very tame - sure we'll complain on threads but we don't band together and do what other gaming communities have done... actually seek legal advice.... or make enough noise to get mainstream press to take notice... or any of the other ways organised communities have forced companies of similar size to back down or at least compromise.

he won't do that cause there is no evidence whatsoever that the drop rates have been changed in the slightest.