Recommended Dungeon Nerf ["Ruins of Mazzatun" - Veteran Difficulty]

Jiandao · June 2017

It is a difficult vet dungeon, but I like the fact that this game still has both solo (VMA) and group (VMoL/DLC dungeons) that are difficult to complete. Other MMOs have dumbed down their content leading players like myself to leave and head towards ESO. I don't want this game to start dumbing down its difficult content.

I'm far from being an elitist player and have yet to complete some vet content such as VMoL/VMA myself. I want a sense of achievement when I complete something in a game.

Maybe try doing VRoM with a guild in TS. I tanked it with a group of guildies and randoms a few days ago. It was difficult as none of us were BiS elite players, but after 4 hours we did it.

I'm sure that with the right group and tactics you can do it too.

Magıc · June 2017

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Besides, the helm is nothing special.

Heresy!!

I love the Mighty Chudan Monster Set...

It effectively gives you Major Ward/Resolve (2 piece bonus) AND Minor Ward/Resolve (1 piece bonus) at all times; you don't have to think about it and you don't have to slot for it...your guard is up at all times with this Monster Set.

Chudan even throws in 1064 health as an added bonus...

Its one of the best Monster Helm sets in the game IMHO...

Which would only be run on a tank. In which case, you'd want mana regen or ult regen from your monster set, not resistances. Then add in Wardens who basically give you Chudan without you having to slot it too.

It's a poorly designed set. Maybe it has some use in lower end PVE for tanks but that's about it. Even then I think Warden is better as it supports the group. I am glad Chudan is getting some use though.

Meld777 · June 2017

I don't get why people cannot accept that there's a freakin' NORMAL MODE! Yes, surprise, it exists!

For a veteran player, everything except vHoF and maybe vMoL is absolute pushover. And to be honest, vCoS and vRoM are the only dungeons where groups of 4 veteran players (veteran definition: players that play this game for over a year and have experienced all content) notice a little difference to normal. The power creep hit them hard as they are. Look at vMA. It used to be a nearly impossible challenge. Now it's merely a L2P challenge - just there to teach you how to play your DD class in a somewhat mediocre way. And for some players... they can't really tell much difference between vet and normal Maelstrom except on bosses. Stuff dies as it spawns in both. And you want nerfs?

And let me repeat it: NORMAL MODE

Bowser · June 2017

foreelz tho op an bad play of game need moar gitgud

ShedsHisTail · June 2017

Meld777 wrote: »

I don't get why people cannot accept that there's a freakin' NORMAL MODE! Yes, surprise, it exists!

For a veteran player, everything except vHoF and maybe vMoL is absolute pushover. And to be honest, vCoS and vRoM are the only dungeons where groups of 4 veteran players (veteran definition: players that play this game for over a year and have experienced all content) notice a little difference to normal. The power creep hit them hard as they are. Look at vMA. It used to be a nearly impossible challenge. Now it's merely a L2P challenge - just there to teach you how to play your DD class in a somewhat mediocre way. And for some players... they can't really tell much difference between vet and normal Maelstrom except on bosses. Stuff dies as it spawns in both. And you want nerfs?

And let me repeat it: NORMAL MODE

He can't accept that there's a Normal Mode because he wants the monster helm, which will not drop in Normal Mode.

SanTii.92 · June 2017

How is this not closed yet.

F3arM0d3 · June 2017

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

TheDoomsdayMonster · June 2017

Magıc wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Besides, the helm is nothing special.

Heresy!!

I love the Mighty Chudan Monster Set...

It effectively gives you Major Ward/Resolve (2 piece bonus) AND Minor Ward/Resolve (1 piece bonus) at all times; you don't have to think about it and you don't have to slot for it...your guard is up at all times with this Monster Set.

Chudan even throws in 1064 health as an added bonus...

Its one of the best Monster Helm sets in the game IMHO...

Which would only be run on a tank. In which case, you'd want mana regen or ult regen from your monster set, not resistances. Then add in Wardens who basically give you Chudan without you having to slot it too.

It's a poorly designed set. Maybe it has some use in lower end PVE for tanks but that's about it. Even then I think Warden is better as it supports the group. I am glad Chudan is getting some use though.

Which would only be run on a tank?

LoL...open your eyes and let your creative juices flow; its better for more than just a tank.

I use it on my 5 Light, 1 Medium, 1 Heavy Armor wearing Templar Healer and its fantastic...

I am hitting 31k Spell Resist and 23k Physical Resist at all times (to go along with 21.6k Health in PvE), so it makes me a bit tanky...

I essentially get the benefits of wearing 5 Light while having the defense of someone wearing 5 Heavy, and I never have to slot for Major Ward/Resolve...that slot is free for another ability.

It rocks in PvP as well as my guard is never down; most Nightblade attempts to jack me fail in large part because of this Monster Set (combined with having Radiant Magelight on both bars of course)...

Anyway, I strongly disagree with your stance that this set is poorly designed; I feel its designed very well...

Major Ward/Resolve at all times...
Minor Ward/Resolve at all times (this is essentially what the 1 piece bonus is)...
1064 Health...

Sign me up for that everyday, all day...

Erraln · June 2017

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

Congrats, now don't let that edge dull; go learn Hard Mode and get yourself some 50k motif pages! ;D

idk · June 2017

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

I had the no-death achievement of this dungeon 3 days after it was released. lol

But your pro and your videos helped me quite a bit learning trial tanking, reguardless the dungeon does not need A nerf . I came back to eso shortly after that dlc release and by the second day of playing i had multiple sets of of V mazz gear and V cos gear and i am ultra casual. The only thing i did not get was the skins because of cry cry group mates .im still confused why he is getting killed by trash he does not even have to fight lol. His problem is he is wasting all his time killing trash and not enough learning bosses lol

@Wifeaggro13

If players can do it with no death it does not need a nerf. There is a reason that there are 3 different difficulty levels for the dungeons, and this is the reason.

Improving ones skill, learning the dungeons along with developing and executing a solid plan is what is needed for any group to clear the vet difficultly and then a step more for the HM on the last boss.

Even you stated you had someone that lacked in either focus or desire. That is not a reason to nerf the dungeon. Might as well nerf the whole bloody game and call it Farmville. Remove the normal version, make vet normal difficulty and remove the achievement skins and pets for the achievements is what is seems a small portion of the population desires.

ShedsHisTail · June 2017

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

That makes absolutely no sense. Why would you want to nerf something if you've already cleared it? That is completely circular logic.

Also... I'm not saying this didn't actually happen, but just that it's very fortunate that a mere three hours after complaining that its just too hard, you managed to not only up your game and complete the content but also get exactly the item you're after. Congrats, bro.

You earned it?

Sigtric · June 2017

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

That makes absolutely no sense. Why would you want to nerf something if you've already cleared it? That is completely circular logic.

What you did there... I see it.

squinceybones · June 2017

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

Well thanks for getting back to me, I'll tell my sister she can finally go to sleep. Awful how a considerate person can be punished for simply reaching out and trying to help someone. It's 3 hours past her bedtime and she has school tomorrow, enjoy your helm.

Dantaria · June 2017

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

Hmmm... You're a tank, right?

Did you taunt Stonemacers on sight?

Did you interrupt Stonemacers when they were hitting their shields?

Did you stand between Chudan and Storm Mage when he charged into you if he charged into you?

Did you hold Xal-Nur exactly in the middle?

Did you taunt trolls?

Did you shield your allies if your healer needed to rekt the statue on last boss?

From your posts I'm ready to bet - you got lucky and got carried. Tanking is so much more than "resists and hp".

FYI, I got Amber Plasm Skin on 380CP. This dung doesn't need CP-cap, nowhere near. It needs competent people.

Sigtric · June 2017

squinceybones wrote: »

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

Well thanks for getting back to me, I'll tell my sister she can finally go to sleep. Awful how a considerate person can be punished for simply reaching out and trying to help someone. It's 3 hours past her bedtime and she has school tomorrow, enjoy your helm.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Wasting your breath OP.

I've made thread after thread about suggestions for some difficulty tweaks with the SOTH dungeons. ZOS isn't gonna lisen, and your just gonna get called a scrub who needs to git gud. The people who typically do this are the selfish who would rather monopolize the game for their specific needs than advocate change that gives everyone what they want, like more difficulty tiers and so on.

Fanboyism never changes. Welcome to the resistance, the accomidations suck. But at least we dont have a mandatory cool-aid diet.

@Doctordarkspawn you seem to be confused as to what fanboi-ism is. You have normal mode for this dungeon - there is your difficulty tier.

You are guaranteed access to all content. You do not need to be guaranteed a clear.

And regarding the 'selfish' comment? Let me translate the following for you:

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

When you're maxed out in an MMORPG you do what every player of every other online game does, wait for a new addition to the game or start a movement for a new difficulty for maxed out players to get the attention of the devs.

"If you're max level, you can wait for the next content for something to do while current content is nerfed down to "guaranteed clear" level for the majority."

That doesn't sound selfish at all, does it?

90% (generously low estimate) of this game can be completed with relative ease. Leave the other 10% the way it is.

Improve your skills.
Improve your communication.
Improve your coordination with your group members.
Finish the content the way it was intended, at the difficulty level it was intended.

Ive gone round and round with doctor. He makes a bunch of statements about how eso was never designed for x y z , then when you post videos articals with devs contradicting him he says tjats not what they meant. Bottom line is he does not feel group content should be dependent on having voice com , strategizing, communicating . He wants a indivdiual performance based group play. Basically everyone being mediocre at Dps , no role required group play.

To be fair, it's not "dependent" on those things, but they certainly help.
What it's dependent on is people knowing what they're doing. As long as you have that, you can generally muddle through it in silence. Voice com is super handy, though, when you've got folks who don't know what they're doing and need to be shouted at... lol

I agree its not dependent but in a pug situation it makes it so much easier to teach new players.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

I had the no-death achievement of this dungeon 3 days after it was released. lol

But your pro and your videos helped me quite a bit learning trial tanking, reguardless the dungeon does not need A nerf . I came back to eso shortly after that dlc release and by the second day of playing i had multiple sets of of V mazz gear and V cos gear and i am ultra casual. The only thing i did not get was the skins because of cry cry group mates .im still confused why he is getting killed by trash he does not even have to fight lol. His problem is he is wasting all his time killing trash and not enough learning bosses lol

@Wifeaggro13

If players can do it with no death it does not need a nerf. There is a reason that there are 3 different difficulty levels for the dungeons, and this is the reason.

Improving ones skill, learning the dungeons along with developing and executing a solid plan is what is needed for any group to clear the vet difficultly and then a step more for the HM on the last boss.

Even you stated you had someone that lacked in either focus or desire. That is not a reason to nerf the dungeon. Might as well nerf the whole bloody game and call it Farmville. Remove the normal version, make vet normal difficulty and remove the achievement skins and pets for the achievements is what is seems a small portion of the population desires.

Well here is my take on it. We have a generation of MMo player that wants a participation trophy. Though i hated key locking content from players i think it helped contain progression and maintained goals for players entering end game activities. I personally get disappointed if i conquer content to fast. I played eso from launch . I was in the end game rather fast and was breaking in dungeons as video walk throughs were hitting the internet we didnt even use them with in a few hours we would get most of them down.if a boss was giving us trouble we would get it in a few days of trying a couple hours each day.. At the time i ran static group with people ive played mmos since eq 1 with . Sadly they moved on due to zos not really wanting to expand and enrich their end game for almost 2 years. I blame the design and game direction for the state of the community of eso. Its very loosy goosy and fluid. No one sticks around long enough to for solid cores for more then 6 months

MLGProPlayer · June 2017

*** no. This game is already hilariously easy.

Vet DLC dungeons aren't hard with an experienced group.

oibam · June 2017

I think, they should add a "Nightmare Mode". No special reward (maybe a rank list). Just for fun. Just for the challenge.

Ep1kMalware · June 2017

Hell no, get better.

Magdalina · June 2017

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Please, no.

vRoM and vCoS are the last challenging dungeons for decent players. And by challenging I mean fun. While doing other dungeons, I'm bored to death.

That's all well and good for you, but maybe other people who are far from the grindstone cap want to be able to play this dungeon without getting ***.

Since when everything has to be done by everyone? That is why there are normal modes as well.

I understand your frustration and that it can be hard for low level (low CP) players, but please leave some content for good players as well. Because someday, when you improve your build etc., you will be pissed when there will be no challenging 4-man content left for you.

And one more thing: 3 good players are enough to get this done on vet without hard mode. If you want so much to complete it now, try to find a better group then. Maybe a group of friends.

Keep in mind that there a far more of us mid to low lvl cp players than capped players. How is it fair to 70% of the game who want to be able to complete this with moderate challenge when it's ungodly to us?

What'd be the point of getting more cp if you can faceroll any content anyway? And what'd there be to do once you do get more CP? Besides, they're totally possible at lower cp as people have pointed out. If you think 200 more cp will make you get totem less often or not get one shot by stone shapers/sludge stingers you're wrong.

There's exactly 2 dungeons in this game that aren't boring to death with a good group. Vet ROM and vet COS. Leave them alone please, every single other dungeon has already been nerfed to death.

Only really challenging thing in ROM is last boss when healer gets statue, or when group dps is too low to kill totem in time. Everything else is simply following mechanics. Also mudcrabs do more damage than bosses wut? My Twilight agroed them the day before yesterday while I was healing it on my sorc and the rest of my team had already gone through that stone door(can't go back through it). I was able to easily kill them with the 2 dps skills I had on my offbar. I run 16k health mind you. I'm sorry if this sounds rude and I don't like putting it this way but it's a l2p issue.

You basically want the dungeon to not have mechanics. It's one of the only 2 dungeons that still has any mechanics I say, leave them be because a lot of us like them that way. ROM is probably my favorite dungeon in game right now. For exploring there's normal mode, for helm there's your class skill that does exact same thing without requiring a set(and they don't stack mind you).

modaretto · June 2017

Mudcrabs. Please nerf the mudcrabs too

Sjizzle · June 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

Hmmm... You're a tank, right?

Did you taunt Stonemacers on sight?

Did you interrupt Stonemacers when they were hitting their shields?

Did you stand between Chudan and Storm Mage when he charged into you if he charged into you?

Did you hold Xal-Nur exactly in the middle?

Did you taunt trolls?

Did you shield your allies if your healer needed to rekt the statue on last boss?

From your posts I'm ready to bet - you got lucky and got carried. Tanking is so much more than "resists and hp".

FYI, I got Amber Plasm Skin on 380CP. This dung doesn't need CP-cap, nowhere near. It needs competent people.

200% agree with u !

F7sus4 · June 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Just finished the quest on vet and got the helm. Still think it needs a nerf.

Hmmm... You're a tank, right?
Did you taunt Stonemacers on sight?
Did you interrupt Stonemacers when they were hitting their shields?
Did you stand between Chudan and Storm Mage when he charged into you if he charged into you?
Did you hold Xal-Nur exactly in the middle?
Did you taunt trolls?
Did you shield your allies if your healer needed to rekt the statue on last boss?
From your posts I'm ready to bet - you got lucky and got carried. Tanking is so much more than "resists and hp".
FYI, I got Amber Plasm Skin on 380CP. This dung doesn't need CP-cap, nowhere near. It needs competent people.

Not a tank myself, but I'm 100% sure lots of people maining one, will still wonder why you even asked those questions. And that makes my brain bleed.

Actually, also wondering why no one complained about vCOS yet. The dungeon seem to get a lot of hate, but honestly it's one of the very few that has some meaningful and interesting mechanics. Top3 fav.

Qbiken · June 2017

FlyLionel wrote: »

Well, it is the most difficult dungeon in the game(Mazzatun) even after knowing all mechanics..I get it, these two dungeons in particular have skins and rare motifs etc. Basically endgame content(vet), I suggest having some real good damage with your typical spc healer setup. Tanks should be igneous spamming a whole lot during mob fights, it's real hectic without the right people yo.

vCoS with people who doesn´t know how to run in the Catacombs on last boss is far worse than vRoM xD

I would say Cradle is more difficult than Ruins, but just a personal preference

Magdalina · June 2017

F3arM0d3 wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Honestly after reading your own comments on this thread it seems to me that you may not be of a high enough skill level to clear this dungeon. All I'm hearing are excuses and assumptions which simply are not true at all. Perhaps you should try running the base game dungeons, then IC dungeons and then try the SoTH ones

My skill is fine. My tank has 40k HP unbuffed and is capped on resistances. My healer crits for 12k on basic spells and on staff. I have plenty of food.

Gonna comment on this as well.

These stats are meaningless. All they show is you have more than enough health/resist to reliably not die, therefore if you do die, you're doing something wrong.

Are you interrupting stoneshapers by chaining them in as they're charging their stone attack?

Are you chaining in ads for nice tightly stacked aoes - or are you running around wildly, pulling everything out of the aoes then wondering why it dies so slowly?

Are you taloning those mudcrabs you're complaining about?

Are you using wings/shield reflect on Chudan/last boss' Chudan amber shade for her poison spit? Are you keeping Chudan(and her shade on last boss) turned away from the group so the conal head sweep doesn't kill everyone?

Are you blocking Xal Nur's charge, then re-taunting him(block makes him stop the charge he does after fearing you, then he drops taunt and you gotta get it back)? Also doing the same to his shade on last boss?

Are you putting last boss right next to the totem when it spawns so they both get some nice juicy aoes(also I usually taunt it for the debuff even though I'm not entirely sure it has proper armor rating...can't hurt)? Are you moving to the statue together with your group when someone gets it, so the hallucinating person sees which statue to kill, healer can heal you nice and easy, dps can keep doing damage and totem doesn't spawn on the other end of the room(as it spawns away from the furthest person in the group)?

ROM is the hardest dungeon to tank in this game imo. It's also the most fun one. I've tanked hm speedruns on my trollplar with amazing 12k stam, no chains and no wings(admittedly before Morrowind patch), if you're a dk it should be even easier.

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Bowser wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Besides, the helm is nothing special.

Heresy!!

I love the Mighty Chudan Monster Set...

It effectively gives you Major Ward/Resolve (2 piece bonus) AND Minor Ward/Resolve (1 piece bonus) at all times; you don't have to think about it and you don't have to slot for it...your guard is up at all times with this Monster Set.

Chudan even throws in 1064 health as an added bonus...

Its one of the best Monster Helm sets in the game IMHO...

Chudan set is best set

nah warden chudan is good for lazy cap honestly id rather not even use monster helm as tank half the time

Wifeaggro13 · June 2017

Magıc wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Besides, the helm is nothing special.

Heresy!!

I love the Mighty Chudan Monster Set...

It effectively gives you Major Ward/Resolve (2 piece bonus) AND Minor Ward/Resolve (1 piece bonus) at all times; you don't have to think about it and you don't have to slot for it...your guard is up at all times with this Monster Set.

Chudan even throws in 1064 health as an added bonus...

Its one of the best Monster Helm sets in the game IMHO...

Which would only be run on a tank. In which case, you'd want mana regen or ult regen from your monster set, not resistances. Then add in Wardens who basically give you Chudan without you having to slot it too.

It's a poorly designed set. Maybe it has some use in lower end PVE for tanks but that's about it. Even then I think Warden is better as it supports the group. I am glad Chudan is getting some use though.

exactly warden is superior monster set

Asardes · June 2017

Would you cut it out with all that whining already? Just learn the mechanics, watch the guides on the internet - the content is almost one year old by now and there are plenty of those. It's less dependent on DPS than other dungeons. In fact in some places having too hight DPS is detrimental, for example DPS-ing the end boss too fast will spawn adds, miniboss and totem on top of each other and you will likely wipe.

As for first clear, mine was the day after release, with no guides, just discovering things as we went. Me and 3 of my friends. We didn't rage, we didn't quit, we just spent 2 hours there and got most achievements as we went. We even did Xal Nur without releasing the wamasus. Same goes for VCoS. I've farmed both to the point of exhaustion when the motifs came out a few months ago, and I was doing up to 10 runs a day. All vet HM. And I'm not a top player by any means: I've not completed any vet trial HM, and I've not yet completed vMA, vMoL or HoF on any difficulty. I generally stick to 4 man content.

So just go, do your homework and just do it.

adeptusminor · June 2017

Bowser wrote: »

Totally a gree with nerfs becus like wtf where devolpers thinking when they made first boss vaa trial stone atro boss that become normal add rest of dungoen then suprasonic dps race turtle boss that dig attack lightening adds plus knockoff argonian terry crews brohemoth sprays everyone with old spice ads mechanics while trolls troll than free lizards puzzle is stupid directions unclear group stuck in wiped out before even get lass boss on normal harder than ezpz rakkhat hm gotta fite all bos again but harder no resource allowed for turtal or old spice gosts and more adds come anyways bring weird hippie tie dye glowy color spirit mode psychedeiltia thing in execute phase too much going on cant even see the tiny boss and then that scrub heem-jas gets rekt the hole time but acts lika-bas and takes all the credit at the end

Came here to post this