Tamriel Trade Centre Addon and its impact to the trading system

starkerealm · June 2017

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

This game is in dire need of an AH.

Not really.

I mean, when we're talking about people inflating the market, they're limited by how time consuming it is, and how restricted their ability to sell items is. Making that open to everyone? Yeah, I can't see how that would go horribly wrong.

Yeah it's so wrong that no other MMO does it... oh wait.

Other MMOs is always the counter argument, but they always conveniently fail to mention the price fixing and inflation in those other MMOs. o.0

Fun trivia: With Star Trek Online, I actually hold my in game wealth in lockbox keys. I don't remember if I've ever bought any from the store (I think I have), and I'm pretty sure I've never actually cracked a box. But, the keys? Yeah, those maintain their value through inflation.

So, I mean, if that's what you want from ESO. A game where you're constantly trying to earn enough to counter inflation... yeah, by all means. Tell me how awesome it is to need 50,000,000 to buy a Sharpened Spriggan's Dagger.

At least in Star Trek, I can actually sell/find/buy things. /shrug

edit: seriously, could we at least get a keyword search & some better sorting options in the guild trader interface? It's like they specifically went out of their way to make it as big a pain as possible to participate in the economy in ESO.

Well, find and sell, anyway. Buying anything in STO costs an arm, leg, and several tentacles. The inflation is so bad, Cryptic had to hard cap the EC you could hold on a character and in your bank.

DaveMoeDee · June 2017

OP has a very ideosyncratic definition of "price fixing."

Price fixing involves collusion. Collusion requires an agreement among multiple actors. TTC involves no agreements on pricing whatsoever. It merely lets people know the going rates. People individually decide if they want to buy and resell and they individually decide what price they want to charge.

Please stop misusing the word "price fixing."

DaveMoeDee · June 2017

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

BOOOOM! Spot on.

You win an award for the first 'dont want an auction house' thread, as this kind of price fixing is exactly why I'm happy with the in game trading functionality as it is now. Add ON's suck, v glad I'm console.

These are, actually, pretty common. The first threads were popping up back in early access (before there were any publicly available kiosks, for that matter.)

Actually, fun trivia: Back when the game launched, the guild store functionality was entirely private. There were no public kiosks to sell stuff to non-guild members. Those got added in much later.

And zone chat was flooded with "x item WTS x gold". I still remember those 50k+ vamp bites in zone chat and how players tried to control the vamp bites by killing all blood fiends lol.

Yeah, the bloodfiend campers was an enlightening first exposure to an MMO. The *** behavior people do in games to earn currency...

starkerealm · June 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

BOOOOM! Spot on.

You win an award for the first 'dont want an auction house' thread, as this kind of price fixing is exactly why I'm happy with the in game trading functionality as it is now. Add ON's suck, v glad I'm console.

These are, actually, pretty common. The first threads were popping up back in early access (before there were any publicly available kiosks, for that matter.)

Actually, fun trivia: Back when the game launched, the guild store functionality was entirely private. There were no public kiosks to sell stuff to non-guild members. Those got added in much later.

And zone chat was flooded with "x item WTS x gold". I still remember those 50k+ vamp bites in zone chat and how players tried to control the vamp bites by killing all blood fiends lol.

Yeah, the bloodfiend campers was an enlightening first exposure to an MMO. The *** behavior people do in games to earn currency...

Yeah, but, the, "in games," part of that sentence is redundant.

It's called, "rent seeking behavior," if you're curious as to the technical term.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · June 2017

They might as well redo the trade system. I mean most of the game has already be redone due to their fantastic design decisions. What is one more system!

starkerealm · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

...this game is such a huge pain in the ass...

You know, you don't have to be here, right?

You remind me of today's main stream media.

Do you mean: Correctly assessing the situation, while idiots who just want their own way, cry, moan, and attack them, instead of actually informing their opinions before weighing in?

Or, do you just mean: Smart enough to spell, "mainstream" correctly?

starkerealm · June 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

They might as well redo the trade system. I mean most of the game has already be redone due to their fantastic design decisions. What is one more system!

Honestly, so far as it goes, I'd still prefer a complete itemization overhaul that focuses on collectibles and unlocks rather than a normal gear system, but... I mean, that's me. I get that a lot of people do, legitimately, play games for the random gear drops.

Franieck · June 2017

I like TTC. Helps me out a lot. The guild trade system on the other hand? A big pain in the ass for me. Please give us AH.

Drachenfier · June 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

...this game is such a huge pain in the ass...

You know, you don't have to be here, right?

You remind me of today's main stream media.

Do you mean: Correctly assessing the situation, while idiots who just want their own way, cry, moan, and attack them, instead of actually informing their opinions before weighing
in?

Or, do you just mean: Smart enough to spell, "mainstream" correctly?

No, I mean twisting things out of context to suit your own ends. It's nothing to be proud of, I assure you.

Invincible · June 2017

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

SchizoidMetal wrote: »

Flame me for this, but this is pure truth and just looking at high valued items on their website. You will see how this addon allows for price control and fixing through the website. I know first hand how a website can be bot scanned for low priced items and bought and resold for stupid prices(price fixing). I thought the whole point of the guild trading system was to now allow trade to become centralized. Well it has and you dont have to run around looking at all the trade shops, you can simply go to their website search the item and it pops up the lowest priced one w/ where and who. This breaks the uniqueness of the trading in ESO.

Yes. And you can find several threads saying the exact same thing. TTC defeats ZoS' effort to stop antitrust conglomerates.

I'll take it a step farther. I was standing at a particular merchant in a thieves den for the better part of half an hour in the wee hours and noone came by once. TTC suddenly popped that it had an item I needed that was severely underpriced with the "now" label in the time column. I searched, found the item, clicked on it and after several seconds of being hung up got a message like 'no longer available' or 'item has been removed.'

Now, this has happened to me before and I wrote it off to the fact that anyone in that guild could have accessed the trader from any bank. But I started to get suspicious because this was a peanuts, East Coast guild trader at off hours. I asked around and it turns out that some guilds actually have someone list an underpriced item, someone else looks at the inventory with the addon activated, and then when it pops on the website they pull it off...

So, TTC is not only a good tool for cornering the market, it's also a good tool to bait and switch.

You know instancing is a thing right?

Bombashaman · June 2017

I have no time to browse tons of pages on hundreds of kiosks. Thanks to TTC, this isn't needed. I'm so glad I play on PC.

IcyDeadPeople · June 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Even before TTC came out, 1-3 people could manipulate prices to an extreme level. An example is flower prices on PC EU. 2 people, just 2 people nearly tripled the price of every single flower in the game until the bags from IC came out (columbine was 600 nearly 700 each). Spell power pots on PC EU went from 100 each to 180 each thanks to 3 people. The best example I can think of is Hakeijo's. 5k to 15k thanks to just 2 guys (same guys who did the flowers). Of course people will try bandwagon and jump on the opportunity if they can, but they don't have much impact.

So I don't see a problem with TTC when just 2 people can have that much of an impact anyway. Just helps me find items easier instead of searching every guild store in Tamriel for the cheapest.

It's possible to manipulate the average "master merchant price," but this is just the average recent sale price. It's not any limitation on the actual price that people are selling the item for.

I suppose if there were a global auction house, it might be possible for one or two extremely wealthy players to keep buying every single offer of a particular item instantly and control the prices this way.

Currently with TTC this is not possible as some would-be evil mastermind would still need to first hope that someone with TTC add on visits the guild trader, then updates the database, then after noticing the price on the website, he would still need to log into the game and travel to each guild trader to buy any items.

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

We just need an in game centralized marketers that pool all info from those guilds in each zone to those marketers instead of having to run around everywhere and rely on TTC as much as well.

That's a compromise between an actual AH and the guild stores, since it will just be pooling info not taking control over it, also we will still have the profits go to those guilds that the items were put up in.

wahoozie · June 2017

If I had to spend (more) hours in load screens and searching through trash I'm not looking for I'd play less than I've already been lately. TTC saves me far too much time for me to care about potential misuse.

lygerseye · June 2017

I like TTC for what it does, but I'd honestly be fine without it if ZOS added one thing to the existing system: Search by Item Name in the guild store. When I'm looking for that one motif page, I can't stand that I have to look through the 300 pages I already know. I'll stop at 20 different vendors without complaint if I only have to spend 30 seconds before finding out what I'm looking for isn't there.

starkerealm · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

I mean twisting things out of context to suit your own ends. It's nothing to be proud of, I assure you.

In case this one slipped your attention somehow, you're the one who started this fun little game of editing each other's posts, to strip the context.

starkerealm · June 2017

Bombashaman wrote: »

I have no time to browse tons of pages on hundreds of kiosks. Thanks to TTC, this isn't needed. I'm so glad I play on PC.

I haven't checked, but I believe there is actually TTC data for the console servers. Though, I've never clicked through to check and see if it is actually supported.

Roovin · June 2017

TTC isn't very good for pricing stuff.
The website is indispensable for finding stuff.

Roovin · June 2017

Iselin wrote: »

The trading system in ESO needs more breaking not less. The only reason it's "unique" is because they don't know how to make global AHs with their megaserver tech. Everything else is just damage control rationalizations about why it's better not to. There is nothing positive from a game play perspective about it. There are other ways to deal with inflation in auction houses other than the drastic measure of not having them.

Not to mention that this system leads to perversion of the purpose of guilds and turns them into lottery simulators that are understandably obsessed with raising enough gold through weekly raffles and other means to bid on the popular guild vendor spots.

Additionally it is very new-player unfriendly in that no one bothers listing gear under CP160. Buying weapons and armor is just not an option for low level players and neither is selling it when each piece takes up one of your 30 sales slots.

If anything I'd like TTC to be even better and let you know in the game the exact spot where that minimum price is.

A global store also completely kills the ability for a vast majority to make money. You'd never be able to find deals and the only way to truly make gold is to farm for high end stuff...which requires you to be a high end player.

Also, there is no need to even pay attention to gear under cp160. The gear requirement before max level in this game vs. MMO's is a joke.

Drachenfier · June 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

I mean twisting things out of context to suit your own ends. It's nothing to be proud of, I assure you.

In case this one slipped your attention somehow, you're the one who started this fun little game of editing each other's posts, to strip the context.

Not quite big guy. Try reading those two posts again

Thrudra_Magia · June 2017

I have found that TTC is a seller's tool. It allows sellers to fix their prices at a higher price and gives you info at what an item is being listed, not the price the item is selling. I don't use this tool and if someone is selling something at more than 100% the price of MM, I don't buy it. I do not reward greed.

MM is a buyer's tool because it gives you the price that someone is willing to buy a product.

Two different economical concepts.

SilverWF · June 2017

jhodges89b14_ESO wrote: »

I have found that TTC is a seller's tool. It allows sellers to fix their prices at a higher price and gives you info at what an item is being listed, not the price the item is selling. I don't use this tool and if someone is selling something at more than 100% the price of MM, I don't buy it. I do not reward greed.

MM is a buyer's tool because it gives you the price that someone is willing to buy a product.

Two different economical concepts.

I'm using both.
You can limit yourself with anything you want

starkerealm · June 2017

Roovin wrote: »

TTC isn't very good for pricing stuff.
The website is indispensable for finding stuff.

It can be a useful guide. But, you need to actually look at the info available. For example, things like how many listings exist is crucial to deciding if the prices you're seeing are realistic or not. Something where there's several hundred listings is probably, fairly, close to the mark. Something where there's less than 20? You need to use your judgement.

Synfaer · June 2017

Iselin wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

The "AH is evil" crowd apparently has never head of the price-controlled AH system that BDO has.

Ironically, I have. I'm also not under the illusion that BDO is analogous to ESO. I mean, one of these is a game where you're are literally never expected to log off. You're supposed to use the internal automation tools to keep your character busy while you eat, go to work, sleep, post on the forums...

I mean, yes, it would be disingenuous to call it a Korean grindfest game, but, at the same time, it is a very different game from ESO, as a function if its design. That includes many factors, not just the way its market works.

And all those other things you mention about it are totally irrelevant to the simple fact that with enough ingenuity you can have the convenience of centralized auction houses without that ultimate evil of price fixing... stay on topic.

How?
Every MMO i've played with a global auction house was plagued by price fixing.

Global AH
a) Can see EASILY see all costs & quantities -> easy to target goods for fixing
b) Because of a) easy to buy up targeted goods, increase demand & resell

ESO Traders
a) CANNOT EASILY see all costs & quantities for sale -> can not easily target goods for fixing
b) Because of a) fixing is a lot harder

Magdalina · June 2017

I don't really have an opinion about centralized AH since I've never played MMOs before so I'm not sure what consequences it would have - albeit it would certainly make some things more convenient. I love TTC though. Imo it's actually more convenient for those looking to buy than those looking to sell - sure you're unlikely to find real bargains that way, someone has probably already gotten them, but finding items at average or perhaps slightly below average price rather than overpriced literally 2 times like say some housing mats are at certain hot trading hubs? Easy. It's imperfect but it's not TTC's fault, it doesn't have access to full ingame information so it cannot properly update when something is bought, but it's doing what it can. Still better to go to a trader that you know at least had the thing(s) you want listed recently than go to all what 50+? of them in a row blindly.

I also appreciate the price checking, I actually like it more than MM's because it's more global. MM's pricechecks are often either scarce(especially on rare/new things) or overpriced if they're by a guild in a hot trading spot where people are willing to consistently pay more for the convenience of not having to go far.

woe · June 2017

It seems like you have a PC problem. I wish i was able to use a marketplace or addon with the xbox and find things easily. Instead everyone spams things in area chat and wants 400k for them. Then new people think those are the right prices and start charging the same. Someone wanted 800k gold for a trial carry.

zergbase_ESO · June 2017

Going have to download that addon now. Thanks for heads up on it. this make life easier for myself at least. Less trader searching.

Qbiken · June 2017

TTC is a lifesaver when looking for rare items. Made some nice bargains with this website. It´s prevented me from farming/grinding some overland gear many times. Still, I like the way ESO trading works with all traders being spread around Tamriel

Zotami · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

This game is in dire need of an AH.

SirCritical · June 2017

SchizoidMetal wrote: »

Flame me for this, but this is pure truth and just looking at high valued items on their website. You will see how this addon allows for price control and fixing through the website. I know first hand how a website can be bot scanned for low priced items and bought and resold for stupid prices(price fixing). I thought the whole point of the guild trading system was to now allow trade to become centralized. Well it has and you dont have to run around looking at all the trade shops, you can simply go to their website search the item and it pops up the lowest priced one w/ where and who. This breaks the uniqueness of the trading in ESO.

Since I could find only a single item from about 30 searches, shown on the page and exist in the game also, I don't think this would be a market breaking thing.