What is up with dolmens?!! 73k death cap..

AcadianPaladin · June 2017

Oh for crying out loud. The law of unintended consequences in full display.

I play a healer not a tank but I simply adore tanks. If all is going well, they (tanks) should pretty much be staying put. For that matter, when all is going well, my magplar healer shouldn't be moving a lot either.

The desire here is to eliminate bots. The problem is the unintended consequences - discourage tanks and healers. That leads to more dps and less healers/tanks. Is that what we want? There is already plenty to discourage healers and, I think, even more to discourage tanks. Just sayin'. Surely there has to be a better way, even if just a longer timer.

Jamini · June 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Yeah, yeah.. this is my hybrid dps/tank. I do have another DK tank that has 72k hp, but that one can't dps worth shite, soloing and just use it for show... whenever I feel like bringing it out and go, hey, look at my big bad tank, guys. Ha ha. So, I also created this one so I can actually dps while frolicking around PvE land. Haaa, even for trials, a 40k tank will fair just fine.

40k health is severely overkill for any content. A 72k health tank is only good for shielding and spamming equilibrium.

With 36k health, you are not a hybrid dps/tank. You are a tank with (still too much) high health.

mid-30s stamina pool and max weapon damage almost 3k

The only way you are getting 30k stamina AND health is by running something like plague doctor or green pact and/or dragur hulk/bone pirate. Which is killing your utility.

Running gold gear with prismatic enchants I range between 29k(Tavas/Akosh/bloodspawn)-36k(Ebon/Dragonguard/Bloodspawn) health on my tank, with 19-22k stamina and 13-16k magicka. Getting 3,000WD with 36k health... I'll believe it when I see it, and "it" almost certainly would include buffs and stacking fighter's guild abilities (which generally do not have tons of utility).

---

Edit: Forgot to account for potential CP differences. The last 100 or so points give +20% in a stat or so. That WD is still quite high however.

TheRealPotoroo · June 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

You only have 36k?? Jesus my tank has more then double that....

Yeah, yeah.. this is my hybrid dps/tank. I do have another DK tank that has 72k hp, but that one can't dps worth shite, soloing and just use it for show... whenever I feel like bringing it out and go, hey, look at my big bad tank, guys. Ha ha. So, I also created this one so I can actually dps while frolicking around PvE land. Haaa, even for trials, a 40k tank will fair just fine. This hybrid dps/tank, aside from the dolmen fiasco, is better able to solo world bosses, for this post-Morrowind patch, than any of my other stam dps toon. Even though ZOS/dev has pushed this current state of ESO to be more group-focused and less solo-friendly, I still like to solo things. With my stam toons, they are having terrible time soloing world bosses and higher end contents with this patch.

So, with mid-30s stamina pool and max weapon damage almost 3k, this tank is a fair dpser. Man, there are just so many toons/players running around PvE land that just seem they cannot dps or know how to use more than just one or two skills during a fight. I run this dps tank through dungeons, and it just seem better that I can be the third dpser and still able to tank the bosses. Like I said, some dudes just cannot dps; particularly in some dungeon runs, here and there. It's kind of sad, really, when you're tanking and you're seeing other toons/dpsers's hp draining or dying, then you have to switch mode to dps, ha ha.

I'm curious about your build.

Asardes · June 2017

Dolmens should have been buffed to "world boss with many adds" level from the outset. Make the adds 2-500K HP and the ned boos 2-5M with multiple CC skills and 20K+ hits.

Nestor · June 2017

I have gotten one shot a few times at Dolmens lately. I don't ever stand still as I refuse to group with the Zerg. I get more exp if I just tag all the mobs and you can't do that standing still.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · June 2017

As far as the "Standing Still Dmg", I believe it is on a timer. i.e. If you stand in one spot for over X minutes. Can't remember the exact time. This was implemented because of the "Game Pad Rubber-Banders".

I have not noticed this massive boss dmg, but curious, which ones? I would like to go and check this out..

CaptainBeerDude · June 2017

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

You only have 36k?? Jesus my tank has more then double that....

I think I have about 34k. With food buff.

Tan9oSuccka · June 2017

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

You only have 36k?? Jesus my tank has more then double that....

With 1k weapon damage.

MasterSpatula · June 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

So, this anti-bot thing is causing some unintended side-effect, I see. Oh, urrgh.. *sigh*

Well, the alternative was to pay a human being to investigate reports of botting and exercise human judgement. That may seem, to any person in touch with reality, like a necessary expense that any company that runs an MMO just has to deal with, but come on, it's ZOS we're talking about here.

Inarre · June 2017

I am a healer and have done several dolmans the last few days and have not once had this problem.

Jollygoodusername · June 2017

ilander wrote: »

They just changed how dolmens work not that long ago to stop botters farming at dolmen spots so you can't stay still anywhere while a dolmen is up or you get a damage buildup that will inevitably kill you as you've probably noticed.
You will have to keep moving or you will die.. if you're staying still, you're basically acting like a bot if you get what i mean.
Hope this clears it up a little.. i've not even done a dolmen since they changed it and i've seen a few people complaining about it but i think it is a good idea if it stops botters from making money out of the game.

I can stand still with any character of mine and be fine at Dolmen. The sheer amount of AoE heals going off negates this stupid antibot fix.

Surfinginhawaii · June 2017

I've been closing about 15 dolmens a day (5 characters doing the Fighter's Guild dailies) since Morrowind and the only major differences that I've noticed are that the daedra have new skills. You have one that throws a rock that can knock you down and another that spits fireballs (or something similar) and when it hits, will explode and knock you down.

Juju_beans · June 2017

I'm a leveling noob here. When I get to about 85% or so I head to a Dolmen to finish up and get some gear in the process.
I've seen the bots before..just standing there with their timed aoe going off every 20-30 seconds.

Was actually nice to start seeing them drop like flies and then get logged off.

Banning bots won't work because for every one you ban another shows up. Changing these Dolmen's is more the right way to do it and real players will adjust what they do to not get killed.

lagrue · June 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Dolmens should have been buffed to "world boss with many adds" level from the outset. Make the adds 2-500K HP and the ned boos 2-5M with multiple CC skills and 20K+ hits.

Yeah that's just great for when you encounter those Dolmens nobody plays// and for all the people who are low level just trying to explore and do stuff - yet another group gated activity - sounds err... wonderful? Cyrodil dolmens RIP if this ever came true.

World Bosses are bad enough as it is - have to sit in chat begging other players to show up to 99% of them.

Real solution: Dolmens should only award XP when you're within a 5-10 meter range of the anchor itself, atleast close enough that enemies will aggro you no matter what - meaning players can't stand back in a safe space - if they want to bot, they're going to sit there and get torn up. The problem is right now they can sit like 25 meters away and spam attack with no threat of the enemies going towards them. Lower the proximity for the XP of closing the Dolmen = problem solved.

Not only do you solve the botting problem - you also make Healing and Tanking both more viable since everything is close combat.

GreenhaloX · June 2017

Jamini wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Yeah, yeah.. this is my hybrid dps/tank. I do have another DK tank that has 72k hp, but that one can't dps worth shite, soloing and just use it for show... whenever I feel like bringing it out and go, hey, look at my big bad tank, guys. Ha ha. So, I also created this one so I can actually dps while frolicking around PvE land. Haaa, even for trials, a 40k tank will fair just fine.

40k health is severely overkill for any content. A 72k health tank is only good for shielding and spamming equilibrium.

With 36k health, you are not a hybrid dps/tank. You are a tank with (still too much) high health.

mid-30s stamina pool and max weapon damage almost 3k

The only way you are getting 30k stamina AND health is by running something like plague doctor or green pact and/or dragur hulk/bone pirate. Which is killing your utility.

Running gold gear with prismatic enchants I range between 29k(Tavas/Akosh/bloodspawn)-36k(Ebon/Dragonguard/Bloodspawn) health on my tank, with 19-22k stamina and 13-16k magicka. Getting 3,000WD with 36k health... I'll believe it when I see it, and "it" almost certainly would include buffs and stacking fighter's guild abilities (which generally do not have tons of utility).

---

Edit: Forgot to account for potential CP differences. The last 100 or so points give +20% in a stat or so. That WD is still quite high however.

Ha ha, yeah.. back in the day.. oh, you know, a long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away (something, something dark side), someone once stated he has a 60k something hp tank. I had called bull-shite then. Now, this was back in the day when you rarely see a tank over 40k. Low and behold, sometime later, I was seeing tanks rolling around with 65k. So, I created a 66kish tank. Then, soon after, someone mentioned the new meta of a 78-80k tank. I didn't call bull-shite on this one, but couldn't really believe how effective a tank with that high of hp would be or ever seen one existed. Not soon after, which I couldn't believe my eyes at the time, a 78k tank was just frolicking around in Mournhold. So, now I have a 73kish tank. So, whether you believe me or not, it is just perspective or rather trivial.

Yeah, aside from getting whacked at that dolmen.. what a fluke that was, I'm running around with my hybrid tank, which is now about 40k and stamina in the 32k. Ok, my max weapon damage is not quite at 3k. Sorry, I exaggerated a bit. It's actually around 2.8k; yes, with a Fighter Skill and Flawless Dawnbreaker slotted, but if I do slot The Warrior mundus stone, it may well be to the 3k. However, I don't know what lacking of utilities that you are talking about. Yes, I considered it a hybrid dps/tank. It's an Imperial Templar or StamPlar tank. One bar is the usual tanking stuff: Piercing Armor, Rune Focus, Entrophy, Bone Shield, Absorb Magic and Magna Shell. Aside from Inner Fire or Equilibrium (which some may prefer to slot.. I don't need those with this hybrid tank), these skills are just fine for a tank. The other bar is my dps; the usual Templar stuff: Biting Jabs; Blazing Spears and added Shrouded Daggers, Lightweight Beast Trap (I was using Power of the Light, but found my dps is better when throwing out the beast trap) with the hasty healing and Flawless Dawnbreaker. I have tanked world bosses and dungeons alike, and it works just fine. Plus, as I said before, the extra dps here, to augment the other two dpsers, is great.

Aside from tanking, while just frolicking around PvE land hitting whatever adds/mobs, bosses (particularly soloing), I melt them down just fine with throwing out Blazing Spears, then Biting Jabs.. maybe toss out the Shrouded Daggers here and there; you get Major Brutality from that. Plus, I can still switch bar to throw up Rune Focus or Bone Shield, if needed. This tank/dps works just fine for little ole me.. Oh, by the way, I also do have a purely dps toon that is about 32k hp, with 36kish stam and overall weapon damage almost to the 3kish.. (granted, everything still purplish) without Major Brutality. Yes, I'm not blowing smoke here. With this patch and its crazy nerf and practically all things resistance and skillsets nerfed, you have to readjust and improvise. Yeah, I'm out terrorizing PvE land with this one too. Both seems to fair just fine, comparatively to my other dps toons that has close to 4kish weapon damage.

To each its own, I say.. play your game and your toons. If it works, then awesome. I'm never one to talk trash or blow hot air; nor have I ever said I am the best or hardcore, or my toons are the shite. I'm telling it as what it is and how it is. I don't need vMA or trial gears, or need 70k dps, or need to beat vMOL HM or must get on the leaders board every week. I play for fun, relaxing and enjoyment. I've never slammed, bash or criticized anybody else's toon or build. However, I have provided, in many occasions, constructive inputs to an OP's post asking for help or feedback. Again, play your game and toon.. It seems fine and dandy for a trial run or two.

josiahva · June 2017

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

You only have 36k?? Jesus my tank has more then double that....

Heh, you would hate my farming tank then(not used for trials, but very useful for farming gear from Vet Dungeons and the like)...24k health 36k Magicka 19k Stamina...but the upside is 20k single target DPS(could probably hit 25k with some rotation optimization). Besides, not long ago it was quite common to see tanks with 26k health as standard, its only recently that meat tanks have become the norm.

Kodrac · June 2017

Ha ha lots of ha ha in here ha ha.

GreenhaloX · June 2017

Kodrac wrote: »

Ha ha lots of ha ha in here ha ha.

You come on here just for that?! Are you ok, man?

GreenhaloX · June 2017

Anyways.. this issue appears to be more of a random thing. Didn't happen at all yesterday, after numerous runs. I'm just going to test it and bring out my 70k tank and stand around at a dolmen. Let's see if it hits or how much damage will be inflicted on this one.

TequilaFire · June 2017

So they are

Jollygoodusername wrote: »

ilander wrote: »

They just changed how dolmens work not that long ago to stop botters farming at dolmen spots so you can't stay still anywhere while a dolmen is up or you get a damage buildup that will inevitably kill you as you've probably noticed.
You will have to keep moving or you will die.. if you're staying still, you're basically acting like a bot if you get what i mean.
Hope this clears it up a little.. i've not even done a dolmen since they changed it and i've seen a few people complaining about it but i think it is a good idea if it stops botters from making money out of the game.

I can stand still with any character of mine and be fine at Dolmen. The sheer amount of AoE heals going off negates this stupid antibot fix.

Not all of us run in dolmen farming zerg groups, some of us even solo dolmen.

Darlgon · June 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Teridaxus wrote: »

If you don't move, but still attack/use abilities you still count as afk/bot and discharges kill you.

What the *beep*.. come on ZOS/dev.. really?! Say this is not true. If so, how ridiculous is this?? Well, there are still one or two, here and there, at a dolmen that I've seen just standing there.. as recent as yesterday. They are not rubber-banding. They just stand there in the ring, wait and do nothing (while everyone else are engaging the adds) until the dolmen is over and then just go to the chest, or they'll finally move to attack the final boss. Nope, nothing seem to happen to the these dudes that I've seen.

Yeah.. its true. Stupid too. Because:

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

You're just going to have to keep moving. It's not like it requires any great effort or resources.

Killing bots is much more important than being able to stand still in combat.

Its not killing bots, its killing players who are actually playing. The bots have already adapted.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/354054/players-bots-avoiding-the-new-anti-bot-system-in-dolmens

They have also apparently upped the power of the caster NPCs at dolmens. But, for afkers using the above method, they would never draw the aggro to get hit.

BTW, dont expect much sympathy.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/351778/static-shock-at-dolmens-was-fun-but#latest

Callidous · June 2017

Holy oblivion, how much of a problem are bots in this game that this seems like a reasonable solution?!

Merlin13KAGL · June 2017

Unless they've cranked it way up since it was implemented, the anti-bot joke-of-an-AoE isn't hitting anyone for anything close to 18k. If can be outhealed so easily, it's laughable.

FTR, I don't bot of AFK, but I purposely stood in it after it came out to see just how (in)effective it was.

Anchor drop needs to be changed to a large scale knockback that takes you completely out of the fight - no big deal if you're at the keyboard.

Darlgon · June 2017

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

I've been closing about 15 dolmens a day (5 characters doing the Fighter's Guild dailies) since Morrowind and the only major differences that I've noticed are that the daedra have new skills. You have one that throws a rock that can knock you down and another that spits fireballs (or something similar) and when it hits, will explode and knock you down.

Yeah.. those Ogrhims are no longer meat that shield charges and self-heals by beating their chests, any more.

GreenhaloX · June 2017

Darlgon wrote: »

Surfinginhawaii wrote: »

I've been closing about 15 dolmens a day (5 characters doing the Fighter's Guild dailies) since Morrowind and the only major differences that I've noticed are that the daedra have new skills. You have one that throws a rock that can knock you down and another that spits fireballs (or something similar) and when it hits, will explode and knock you down.

Yeah.. those Ogrhims are no longer meat that shield charges and self-heals by beating their chests, any more.

Yeah, aoe and other damages from adds/boss have been upped at dolmen as well. Particularly, those elemental aoe have some upticks in damages, whether red flaming circles or line of sight blast from sorc adds or the daedroths, and those lightning/shock blasts from sorc adds and Atronachs are putting out more juices as well. Reminder, Hardy and Elemental resistance down from 25% to 15%. Even harvestors are putting out more juices. Dolmen are definitely more challenging for lower level toons; well, and higher toons alike, but still soloable. More annoying, however (aside from this anti-bot side-effect), are those hits that will maim, disorient, knock you down, immobilize or slow you down that are occurring more often than before. Sheesh..

GreenhaloX · June 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Anyways.. this issue appears to be more of a random thing. Didn't happen at all yesterday, after numerous runs. I'm just going to test it and bring out my 70k tank and stand around at a dolmen. Let's see if it hits or how much damage will be inflicted on this one.

Ok, yup.. tested it, and about 20 or 30 seconds later.. dead; a single 73k static charge death cap. Oh, so nice. It also actually says in the comment, keep moving at a dolmen to avoid the static charge kill. Ha ha ha! (yes, sir.. for that one troll earlier, more Ha ha for you.) So, understanding this anti-bot thing now, I'm actually ok with it. If it's zapping them bots or rubberbanders at a dolmen like bugs, yeah, so be it. Just have to remember to keep moving or not to stay still too long. Kudos on ZOS/dev team for looking into it and implementing measures to counteract the bots/banders at dolmens.

DocFrost72 · June 2017

CarbonX wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

You only have 36k?? Jesus my tank has more then double that....

You're joking right? A tank with more than 72k health? You know you can help your group in other ways too, right?

Like a 10k ward on allies and unlimited resources to spam igneous weapons, chains, and talons? Cause that is how broken health tanks are right now.

QuebraRegra · June 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

jmgrant44ub17_ESO wrote: »

They have changed some of the monsters mechanics in the world. Daedroths, Harvestors and Ogrims have all had their damage buffed and new mechanics added. You also take more damage if you are standing in the aoe when the monster lands.

Yeah, I had mentioned before about how dolmen adds and bosses have been buffed up with this patch, but I was taking flack from some who didn't believe me. I like the upgrades/add-ons to the adds and bosses.. well, aside from having a tank killed by 2 shots, ha ha. However, it can be annoying when you in the midst of destroying an add or two, then all of a sudden, bamm, you get knocked down, then realizing an Ogrim had thrown a boulder at you from a distance; same with the daedroth that can blast you with the flame attack from a distance that also knocks you down, among other added abilities to adds at dolmen. Although, still fairly easy, yes, dolmen has been upped a step or two and bit more interesting. Ha ha

Is this true of world bosses as well? Maybe it was server issues last night But the Svaraah (sp) world boss in TG was ridiculos.

GreenhaloX · June 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

jmgrant44ub17_ESO wrote: »

They have changed some of the monsters mechanics in the world. Daedroths, Harvestors and Ogrims have all had their damage buffed and new mechanics added. You also take more damage if you are standing in the aoe when the monster lands.

Yeah, I had mentioned before about how dolmen adds and bosses have been buffed up with this patch, but I was taking flack from some who didn't believe me. I like the upgrades/add-ons to the adds and bosses.. well, aside from having a tank killed by 2 shots, ha ha. However, it can be annoying when you in the midst of destroying an add or two, then all of a sudden, bamm, you get knocked down, then realizing an Ogrim had thrown a boulder at you from a distance; same with the daedroth that can blast you with the flame attack from a distance that also knocks you down, among other added abilities to adds at dolmen. Although, still fairly easy, yes, dolmen has been upped a step or two and bit more interesting. Ha ha

Is this true of world bosses as well? Maybe it was server issues last night But the Svaraah (sp) world boss in TG was ridiculos.

I have not the same issue at WB, so far. The only issue I have at WB, is with DW. I have a bug post on this as well in the bug reporting section. The issue.. my stam pool just completely drains to empty during combat, even when it was at 3/4 or full. No way to stop it from depleting. Any further strikes during this rapid depletion, it's not putting out any damages. It appears to be half-arse strikes. Then, only after it reaches empty, will it begin to regen. So, when you're in the middle of fighting a WB, and this happens, you're really kind of shite up the creek; particularly if you rely on Vigor or Rally for health regen. Well, also with DW, not trying to go too far off targent, but yeah, DW is also experiencing growing pain with heavy attack combo with other strikes. The heavy attack is going off, but not the follow-on strikes, like Rapid Strikes or Biting Jabs, etc.. It's intermittent, but happens more time than you would like.

PlagueSD · June 2017

sarbonn wrote: »

My only problem with this (not standing still) is with my sorcerer because one of my spells takes a few seconds to cast, and if I cast it right after another ability, which I do often, that stupid build up starts, and I end up not able to cast the spell because I have to move before that eruption kills me.

You can still move (slowly) while casting. It's not like in other MMOs where moving completely interrupts casting (jumping or sprinting will though).