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Proc Sets -> Ability Sets?
Avran_Sylt
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Seeing as proc sets are quite the rage now, I was wondering if the possibility of them being converted into 'Ability' sets would help with balance. This means that while they are still proc based, they now have much lower base numbers, but can scale according to max resources and/or Weapon or Spell Damage. Meaning to get the current values a player would need to spec into damage. If they went the tank route, there is still a proc, but it is much lower.
The original idea for this was courtesy of @Giles.floydub17_ESO
Edited by Avran_Sylt on June 26, 2017 8:12PM The original idea for this was courtesy of @Giles.floydub17_ESO
Proc Sets -> Ability Sets? 141 votes
Sounds Interesting
36%
51 votes
Leave it Simple
12%
18 votes
Procs need a tweak, but this aint it.
33%
47 votes
I Don't Care
7%
11 votes
Other
9%
14 votes
0
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Proc sets were a thing back when Viper's Sting was made available, and Proc damage could still Crit.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Proc damage sets are a good example of the problem of using one set of rules for two disparate game modes. Proc damage is balanced to be competitive at a DPS level in PVE (especially for less experienced players) which makes it OP at a burst level in PVP.
I would prefer PVP if it was limited to crafted armor and Cyrodiil/IC sets; perhaps with some pruning. This would also alleviate the gear grind for PVP players.6 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Procs need a tweak, but this aint it.Going with the fact they need looking at, but I don't want to see them as actual skills/abilities.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."0 -
stevepdodson_ESO888✭✭✭✭✭
✭Take the "Knight Slayer" set for example, where the Oblivion damage applies to Players (i.e. not NPC's) then just make all proc-sets apply only to NPC's and not Players...problem solved3 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭Proc sets were a thing back when Viper's Sting was made available, and Proc damage could still Crit.
Sword and board.
Widow maker.
Vipers sting.
Tremorscale.
Proc sets are very much still a thing
Before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.3 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sounds InterestingScale procs on only weapon/spell damage. That way tanks are not using them. Overall stacking procs will net lower damage but to have that sweet 15k tooltip seleane you need clever alchemist and agility for example with no regen.PS4 NA DC0 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
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My StamDK is 3 of those 4 things and I still got my butt kicked most of the time.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I see a lot of suggestion on the forums on how proc-sets should be fixed. Most of the suggestion are often something in terms of an overall change that should be applied to all procsets. ZOS did this a few months ago (if I`m correct) by making proc-sets unable to do critical damage. And as far as I know this didn´t change much for the PvP-players (lets be honest, proc-sets isn´t really an issue in PvE). So the "global change" for proc-sets didn´t work out that time, and I doubt that a global rework on how all proc-sets works won´t solve things to the better if done again. And I also thinks it´s a lazy way of handling those things.
I Think ZOS needs to look at each individual damaging proc-set and tweak them one by one. Some of you Think that proc-sets doesn´t belong in an MMO but proc-sets was a thing Before One-Tamriel as well. Only thing that changed was that more were added. Proc-sets won´t be removed from the game, that´s not the way I think ZOS does things. Taking away item/gear that somehwat "belongs to the player" (since you have to play/farm the dungeons/content to get the proc-sets you want, or buy the stuff you need) will probably do more harm than good. Sure the game worked fine Before One-Tamriel without the newer proc-sets, but is that really an argument to remove them (in that case a lot of things that people go HAM about would be removed)??0 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭
My StamDK is 3 of those 4 things and I still got my butt kicked most of the time.
Yea, 3/4.
You do need a fair bit of experience too bc full medium or 5 med 2 heavy
Before judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@cpuScientist
Then classes that don't have Dot but do have fast attacking skills will have the edge over classes that rely on Dots.
The simpler way to improve the game is to remove proc gears. People should kill others actively and by attacking. Not passively.Edited by GeorgeBlack on June 20, 2017 4:36PM2 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭I see a lot of suggestion on the forums on how proc-sets should be fixed. Most of the suggestion are often something in terms of an overall change that should be applied to all procsets. ZOS did this a few months ago (if I`m correct) by making proc-sets unable to do critical damage. And as far as I know this didn´t change much for the PvP-players (lets be honest, proc-sets isn´t really an issue in PvE). So the "global change" for proc-sets didn´t work out that time, and I doubt that a global rework on how all proc-sets works won´t solve things to the better if done again. And I also thinks it´s a lazy way of handling those things.
I Think ZOS needs to look at each individual damaging proc-set and tweak them one by one. Some of you Think that proc-sets doesn´t belong in an MMO but proc-sets was a thing Before One-Tamriel as well. Only thing that changed was that more were added. Proc-sets won´t be removed from the game, that´s not the way I think ZOS does things. Taking away item/gear that somehwat "belongs to the player" (since you have to play/farm the dungeons/content to get the proc-sets you want, or buy the stuff you need) will probably do more harm than good. Sure the game worked fine Before One-Tamriel without the newer proc-sets, but is that really an argument to remove them (in that case a lot of things that people go HAM about would be removed)??
Skoria, Nerieneth or w/e etc. are examples or how proc sets should work. Viper, Tremor, Red Mountain, Selene, pirate (and more), some of these even with a really low % chance still proc on cooldown so something's wrong.
I agree and many other PVPers have, either bring in a global cooldown for proc sets (makes wearing more than 1 proc set useless, although some proc sets are still OP as a solo proc set in a build, red mountain. pirate and viper being the prime examples) or look at each individual proc set and adjust it. I'd prefer the second option.2 -
AdicusDio✭✭✭The sets are fine for PvE. Leave them alone. Took me awhile to gold everything including jewelry as well, so unless you want people saying "I've had it, I'm done with this game because you keep taking stuff away that we the players work hard to get perfect so I'm calling it quits", stop griping about PvE. Go run around bare-knuckled if you need to prove yourself.
FWIW, my "Killer's Blade" can do 28-30k crit damage (per strike) to 25%/lower health enemies. Ambush? I can get 40k crit damage with that which is 4 times what Red Mountain can do. That's actual 1-shot damage. Can 1-shot quite a few enemies with that. Viper? That barely does 7k (actual damage). Red Mountain? 8-9k (actual damage). If talking PvP and you wanted to counter that, put a poison and flame enchant on your jewelry to counter it......2 -
Anne_Firehawk✭✭✭✭✭I see a lot of suggestion on the forums on how proc-sets should be fixed. Most of the suggestion are often something in terms of an overall change that should be applied to all procsets. ZOS did this a few months ago (if I`m correct) by making proc-sets unable to do critical damage. And as far as I know this didn´t change much for the PvP-players (lets be honest, proc-sets isn´t really an issue in PvE). So the "global change" for proc-sets didn´t work out that time, and I doubt that a global rework on how all proc-sets works won´t solve things to the better if done again. And I also thinks it´s a lazy way of handling those things.
I Think ZOS needs to look at each individual damaging proc-set and tweak them one by one. Some of you Think that proc-sets doesn´t belong in an MMO but proc-sets was a thing Before One-Tamriel as well. Only thing that changed was that more were added. Proc-sets won´t be removed from the game, that´s not the way I think ZOS does things. Taking away item/gear that somehwat "belongs to the player" (since you have to play/farm the dungeons/content to get the proc-sets you want, or buy the stuff you need) will probably do more harm than good. Sure the game worked fine Before One-Tamriel without the newer proc-sets, but is that really an argument to remove them (in that case a lot of things that people go HAM about would be removed)??
Skoria, Nerieneth or w/e etc. are examples or how proc sets should work. Viper, Tremor, Red Mountain, Selene, pirate (and more), some of these even with a really low % chance still proc on cooldown so something's wrong.
This so much. Sets like Viper (100% Procchance, 4s CD), Tumorscale (50% Procchance, 4s CD), Selene (30% Procchance when weaving, 45% when bash-weaving, 4s CD) are the problems and need to be adjusted individually, not to mention their damage is far higher than other procsets. Widowmaker is fine in my opinion since it is bound to Poison CD (10s), same for Red Mountain because the damage is nowhere near the other Sets and Velidreth has a high CD. Anyone noticed theres not a single magicka based procset overperforming?
Edited by Anne_Firehawk on June 20, 2017 1:25PMAnne Firehawk | Legate | Bringer of Light | Voice of Reason | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Magicka DK forever
GUAR SQUAD OP
All Hardmodes done, WTB content.
Cancercrates are ruining the game
DD | Phoenix Reborn
GM | Tamriels Emporium
#permabanAPFlippers1 -
Anne_Firehawk✭✭✭✭✭
FWIW, my "Killer's Blade" can do 28-30k crit damage (per strike) to 25%/lower health enemies. Ambush? I can get 40k crit damage with that which is 4 times what Red Mountain can do. That's actual 1-shot damage. Can 1-shot quite a few enemies with that. Viper? That barely does 7k (actual damage). Red Mountain? 8-9k (actual damage). If talking PvP and you wanted to counter that, put a poison and flame enchant on your jewelry to counter it......
I love when people compare apples with cucumbers.Edited by Anne_Firehawk on June 20, 2017 6:56PMAnne Firehawk | Legate | Bringer of Light | Voice of Reason | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Magicka DK forever
GUAR SQUAD OP
All Hardmodes done, WTB content.
Cancercrates are ruining the game
DD | Phoenix Reborn
GM | Tamriels Emporium
#permabanAPFlippers5 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds InterestingThe idea might be interesting but it's basically the same direction Maelstrom/Master weapon are utilizing and it can lead to smaller build diversity. On the other side - it makes balancing the classes (especially buffing) relatively easier.0 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭OtherAs long as you can only equip 1 at once in PvP you can make them summon Shooting Stars on peopleK1 The Big Monkey0 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
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Nice very nice I stopped using viper and now using sheer venom it's amazing
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Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seems many arguments are to change the individual stats of proc sets so that they become more balanced in both PvE and PvP. This is why I think they should be considered abilities:
PvE: Players stack the ever living shite outta damage and max resources, so if the current proc sets were revalued to scale to their current values if the player is at absurd amounts of spell/weapon/resources, this keeps those sets at the same relative effectiveness in PvE.
PvP: Players stack resistances/shields/max resources so they can survive assaults by those PvE builds mentioned above while still being competitive. Current proc sets without scalings allow for players to make up the damage that they lose by having very high base damages. If proc sets were scaled much like regular abilities, they'd have trade offs much like the rest of the players abilities would have if they go the tanky/sustain route.0 -
dmar613✭✭✭Leave it SimpleProcs need to be tweaked. I hate to say it, but wearing 5 widowmaker body, 3 viper jewls & 2 sword and shield, 2 tremor scales, master greatsword. put 1 health armor glyph, rest stam, jewl enchants 1 decrease stam cost, stam, recovery and 1 weapon dmg glyp, champ points 23 % direct damage, 14% physical, rest in penetration= Broken!!!!!!!!! These people are out here getting slayed GG zos CP camps too.Edited by dmar613 on June 20, 2017 5:17PM4th Grand Overlord For DC Xbox One. 123,486 pvp kills Crip from the Sexy Time Slayers aka Leaps of Dreamz0
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ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just don't make proc sets available with Impen on them.
Won't affect PvE, will increase the cost of using them in PvP."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?3 -
Raeph✭✭✭Why not just make it so the proc set damage is halved against players? Or whatever % makes it balanced.0
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cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭I see a lot of suggestion on the forums on how proc-sets should be fixed. Most of the suggestion are often something in terms of an overall change that should be applied to all procsets. ZOS did this a few months ago (if I`m correct) by making proc-sets unable to do critical damage. And as far as I know this didn´t change much for the PvP-players (lets be honest, proc-sets isn´t really an issue in PvE). So the "global change" for proc-sets didn´t work out that time, and I doubt that a global rework on how all proc-sets works won´t solve things to the better if done again. And I also thinks it´s a lazy way of handling those things.
I Think ZOS needs to look at each individual damaging proc-set and tweak them one by one. Some of you Think that proc-sets doesn´t belong in an MMO but proc-sets was a thing Before One-Tamriel as well. Only thing that changed was that more were added. Proc-sets won´t be removed from the game, that´s not the way I think ZOS does things. Taking away item/gear that somehwat "belongs to the player" (since you have to play/farm the dungeons/content to get the proc-sets you want, or buy the stuff you need) will probably do more harm than good. Sure the game worked fine Before One-Tamriel without the newer proc-sets, but is that really an argument to remove them (in that case a lot of things that people go HAM about would be removed)??
Skoria, Nerieneth or w/e etc. are examples or how proc sets should work. Viper, Tremor, Red Mountain, Selene, pirate (and more), some of these even with a really low % chance still proc on cooldown so something's wrong.
I agree and many other PVPers have, either bring in a global cooldown for proc sets (makes wearing more than 1 proc set useless, although some proc sets are still OP as a solo proc set in a build, red mountain. pirate and viper being the prime examples) or look at each individual proc set and adjust it. I'd prefer the second option.
Skoria is as bad Selene, worst even as it hits AOE. Procs very often and hits very hard. Usually it is the burst of the DK. And makes magplar amazing.
Grothdar, Nerienth, stormfist. These are fantastic proc sets. Extremely telegraphed not instant upfront burst.
If valkyn was turned to a dot over it's cool down. If Selene a bleed over it's cool down period, same with viper red mountain. These would still be strong and add dot pressure. But would not be BAM your dead. WTF hit me. If they were all easily dodgeable/blockable like Selene that too would be amazing. But just Turning them I to a dot and giving obvious indicators that they are active would fix them.1 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »@cpuScientist
Then classes that don't have Dot but do have fast attacking skills will have the edge over classes that rely on Dots.
The simpler way to improve the game is to remove proc gears. People should kill others actively and by attacking. Not passively.
All the classes have access to fast attacking skills. Flame lash, jabs hits instantly and 4 times in 1.1 seconds, force pulse, suprise attack, shoot the slowest ability to start doing damage with is dizzying swing. What's wrong with these abilities?
And I'd argue that those that rely on dots would now be able to dot someone up so much it would apply a ton of pressure. As is when I used vicecannon sheer venom poison injection crafted double poisons. The dot pressure was extremely high many just died to the dots It was a fun way to play.
Now a dk would be able to have a strong procced valkyn dot on top of their 2 class dots. And if they time it right and lock someone down and flame lash that's a whole lot of damage going off through dots and not just an instant BLAM! Death!
Though I think in the end they just need to be killed. Proc damage sets should be killed but won't so it's better IMO to find ways that make them more balanced in PvP. While maintaining their usefulness in PVE.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherKeep this junk out of PVP all together, otherwise they are fine as-is for PVEEdited by Sigtric on June 21, 2017 3:46PM
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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Voxicity✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherShedsHisTail wrote: »Just don't make proc sets available with Impen on them.
Won't affect PvE, will increase the cost of using them in PvP.
2 tremor
5 impreg body
5 viper jewlery + weaponsEdited by Voxicity on June 21, 2017 3:48PM0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherShedsHisTail wrote: »Just don't make proc sets available with Impen on them.
Won't affect PvE, will increase the cost of using them in PvP.
I'd rather see them not able to be equipped in PVP all together.. but this is an interesting thought.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
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