PLEASE NERF STEALTH SPAMMING NIGHTBLADES.

leepalmer95 · June 2017

As a stamblade.

I use detect pots myself and its very easy to burst them within the time frame.

Derra wrote: »

I just hope zos uses old code again so cloak get put back in a remotely balanced state by being fundamentally broken like it was last patch.

A stamblade that´s built for cloaking can´t be caught by any projectile based built that does not have access to mark - unless they´re bad.

Not really they can't roll forever so pop a pot when they've rolled twice and go into cloak. They either take the projectiles or run out of stamina.

Cloak is how stamblades heal, their heals are useless otherwise.

Reverb · June 2017

aToken wrote: »

Once again, Breaking their stleath isnt the problem. ITs the repeated use of the skill with no side affects. NB stealth is being spammed with no donwside.

If you break their stealth and they live long enough to cloak away again, you're doing it wrong. Stealth-blades are, almost without exception, the squishiest enemy you will encounter. If one manages to cloak enough to get away, that's on you.

olsborg · June 2017

Cloak has a plethora of counters, if you want to give it increased cost on usage, remove counters first. I dont find cloak to be such a big problem and my nb doesnt even use mark. Det pots etc is plenty enough imo. Give me a noshield pot pls:P

WhiteMage · June 2017

Someone mentioned jabs for breaking cloak. In practice, that only nets the potatoes who cloak in front of you while snared and barely move from there. If they dodge roll first, especially while I'm jabbing, and then cloak, there is no way to catch them. Stamblades control the fight against magplars in practice. If you overextend, you die.

Detect pots are the only viable counter, and even though I can't fit them in my quickslot bar, they work wonders. There was a NB that ganked me while I was typing with a trigger-worthy name: Enjoy The Death Recap Fam. I got a kick out of that and paid him back with two dogged chases with detect pots. Maybe he would have stood a chance if he stood and fought.

Derra · June 2017

FlyLionel wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I just hope zos uses old code again so cloak get put back in a remotely balanced state by being fundamentally broken like it was last patch.

A stamblade that´s built for cloaking can´t be caught by any projectile based built that does not have access to mark - unless they´re bad.

This man got it. Listen to him. Currently when cloak is fixed it is OP. Magicka NBs can absolutely spam it. Stamina ones use speed and roll dodge and then cloak. The only real counter is Mark target and it is accessible only for other NBs.

@Bashev So now that it's working as intended throughout all these years it is now OP? I'm confused(Haven't pvp'd yet this patch), are you not able to counter NBs at all? Detect pots/Aoe/Magelight/Flare is not a 'real' counter anymore? Interesting.

Magelight (inner light) range gets reduced by detection radius decreses. That means you have to effectively stand on top of a NB for it to work at all. Couple that with the NB normally moving away from you and even the slightest serverlag - yeah magelight won´t do you no good. One dodgeroll is enough to be out of range. Any magblade has snares - any stamblade is by default faster than you.

Flare - suffers from the problem radiant magelight does. It´s a onedimensional counter to cloak. It´s otherwise 100% obsolete. In a 10 skill game it´s not reasonable by any means to have a skill only to counter one other class specific skill (ie: imagine gapclosers only worked after a sorc used streak and were otherwise 100% useless against all other classes - literally nobody would slot them).

Detect pots - this goes specifically for projectile based build (which i happen to play). Cloak forcemisses projectiles (for about 1.5s) even when the NB is revealed with a potion. This means you pop a detect pot and you still won´t hit them. They will flatout "miss" even though you popped a pot to be able to attack the NB in the first place (that´s flatout bugged working in favor of the NB and has been for ages - most cloak fixes so far simply increased the time nbs are immune to projectiles after pressing the ability).

Aoes. Ok for classes that have the option (magDK), stamsorc. What realistic option for aoe do people on other classes have slotted though (streak is NOT a counter for any decent NB - because of stacking costs; jabs - well most templars have issues hitting visible targets).
Slotting groundaoes just to counter nbs falls under the same problem as flare does. You don´t slot a skill in a 10 skill game only to counter one out of 4 classes.

I play a magblade in addition to my sorc and i have to flatout say - i´m absolutely untouchable (even by stamsorcs - bc hey cripple) unless i get heavily outnumbered.
On a stamblade (havent touched mine since 1.6) with additional sprintspeed, more dodges and eternal hunt or cowards gear - well you get the picture.

Zer0_CooL · June 2017

Just craft or buy some detection pots and learn to play.

altemriel · June 2017

nope, L2P!!!

oibam · June 2017

aToken wrote: »

As of now, nightblades both mag and stam based, are able to stealth infinitly almost. The skill puts the person invisible, and un-targeteable. There is no cost increase for repetaded use and all resource revocery is at full while stealthed. Its extremly unfair for players to simpley vanish and regain resources by simple "cloaking". Skill such as streak and dodge roll have increased cost on repeated use. and Mist form stop magicka recovery as well as no healing received. Stealth needs to be set on par with the others skills. Please look into this or justify why there is no penatly for repeated use of this skill with absoleutly no side affect. I understand that "stleath" is a nb thing. But streak is a sorcer thing and recieved a nerf long long ago. PLEASE NERF STEALTH SPAMMING nightblades.

L2P

Enough counter skillz.

Qbiken · June 2017

I can get the Point OP is trying to make, other escape mechanisms have a penalty for repeted usage, like streak´ and dodgeroll, sure I hate the cloaking NB as well but I often find myself not running any counter and if that´s the case I only have myself to blame sadly :P

wibbz · June 2017

aToken wrote: »

As of now, nightblades both mag and stam based, are able to stealth infinitly almost. The skill puts the person invisible, and un-targeteable. There is no cost increase for repetaded use and all resource revocery is at full while stealthed. Its extremly unfair for players to simpley vanish and regain resources by simple "cloaking". Skill such as streak and dodge roll have increased cost on repeated use. and Mist form stop magicka recovery as well as no healing received. Stealth needs to be set on par with the others skills. Please look into this or justify why there is no penatly for repeated use of this skill with absoleutly no side affect. I understand that "stleath" is a nb thing. But streak is a sorcer thing and recieved a nerf long long ago. PLEASE NERF STEALTH SPAMMING nightblades.

*** everything can brake cloak and it sucks.

Brrrofski · June 2017

I can cloak on my stamblade 9 times in CP campaign, 7 in BGs. Stamblade mains will not have it though. They are weak and squishy! They are not and never have been op! Incap is perfectly balanced!

Stamblades in the hands of a good player are absolutely lethal.

Dracindo · June 2017

Zer0_CooL · June 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

I can get the Point OP is trying to make, other escape mechanisms have a penalty for repeted usage,...

So there's a penalty for the mages zapping away from u when they realise they won't win?!

olsborg · June 2017

Derra wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I just hope zos uses old code again so cloak get put back in a remotely balanced state by being fundamentally broken like it was last patch.

A stamblade that´s built for cloaking can´t be caught by any projectile based built that does not have access to mark - unless they´re bad.

This man got it. Listen to him. Currently when cloak is fixed it is OP. Magicka NBs can absolutely spam it. Stamina ones use speed and roll dodge and then cloak. The only real counter is Mark target and it is accessible only for other NBs.

@Bashev So now that it's working as intended throughout all these years it is now OP? I'm confused(Haven't pvp'd yet this patch), are you not able to counter NBs at all? Detect pots/Aoe/Magelight/Flare is not a 'real' counter anymore? Interesting.

Detect pots - this goes specifically for projectile based build (which i happen to play). Cloak forcemisses projectiles (for about 1.5s) even when the NB is revealed with a potion. This means you pop a detect pot and you still won´t hit them. They will flatout "miss" even though you popped a pot to be able to attack the NB in the first place (that´s flatout bugged working in favor of the NB and has been for ages - most cloak fixes so far simply increased the time nbs are immune to projectiles after pressing the ability).

Yea I remember this bug, if its back then they should get it fixed asap.

Generally id like to add that cloak is finally in an ok place, its been broken forever tho. Sure if youre alone and youre trying to take out a cloaking nb you might have a difficult time if the nb is good, but as soon as there are 2+ ppl using counters...the nb is gonna have a very hard time getting away if said ppl uses the counters correctly.

davey1107 · June 2017

All i have seen so far are the ones that spam the skill and are afraid of having to play them game out of stealth ocaisionly.

Frankly, your attitude stinks. You don't come here to ask advice to play stronger against your dire nemesis, the evil nightblade, you just want to name call and pout.

I have vets in all the classes and stam/mag variations. Every class has a few core skills that are ultra powerful, unique and offset their weaknesses. When I play my stamblade, I wish I had power surge. Major brutality and sorcery AND heals with crit stirikes?? Yes, I'd take that. Or hardened ward. Or the stam sorcs hurricane, which is a heck of an ability.

Cloak is set up the way it is because stealth is the core function of a Nightblade. They are meant to be able to run and hide. Sorcs are not designed to run and hide, thus their run and hide ability cuts them off. Cloak is also the most expensive skill in my NB's box...4050 magic. I don't even have stam abilities that cost that much,,sheesh. So it's already been compensated for.

And using it well takes skill, which you're dismissing. You can't button mash it. Using cloak well in pvp means learning to extend it and maximize it. What you're seeing aren't nightblades endlessly cloaking...you're seeing nightblades who know exactly when to pull cloak to stay off your radar. A cloak spammer can go about the distance from the vukel guard wayshrine to the guild stand. But as an experienced NB, if the NPCs were all PVP human enemies, I could still make it all the way across town without being seen, and without running out of resources. I don't spam, it's because I'm freaking great at playing NB and you're usually not going to find me if I don't want you to.

Nightblades are designed to go into stealth to confuse you, regen, or annoy the heck out of you. That's one of their central, intended uses, and they're not going to nerf the game because you don't like how others play. The fact that you're so irritated proves one thing and one thing only...you've been running into some nightblades who know how to nightblade, lol.

Bashev · June 2017

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I just hope zos uses old code again so cloak get put back in a remotely balanced state by being fundamentally broken like it was last patch.

A stamblade that´s built for cloaking can´t be caught by any projectile based built that does not have access to mark - unless they´re bad.

This man got it. Listen to him. Currently when cloak is fixed it is OP. Magicka NBs can absolutely spam it. Stamina ones use speed and roll dodge and then cloak. The only real counter is Mark target and it is accessible only for other NBs.

@Bashev So now that it's working as intended throughout all these years it is now OP? I'm confused(Haven't pvp'd yet this patch), are you not able to counter NBs at all? Detect pots/Aoe/Magelight/Flare is not a 'real' counter anymore? Interesting.

Detect pots - this goes specifically for projectile based build (which i happen to play). Cloak forcemisses projectiles (for about 1.5s) even when the NB is revealed with a potion. This means you pop a detect pot and you still won´t hit them. They will flatout "miss" even though you popped a pot to be able to attack the NB in the first place (that´s flatout bugged working in favor of the NB and has been for ages - most cloak fixes so far simply increased the time nbs are immune to projectiles after pressing the ability).

Yea I remember this bug, if its back then they should get it fixed asap.

Generally id like to add that cloak is finally in an ok place, its been broken forever tho. Sure if youre alone and youre trying to take out a cloaking nb you might have a difficult time if the nb is good, but as soon as there are 2+ ppl using counters...the nb is gonna have a very hard time getting away if said ppl uses the counters correctly.

I dont have issues with magNBs who use the skill for escape because they are not strong at all. But stam procblades just use it to turn the fight in their favour. You cannot just leave them when they escape because they will be back in 8-9 seconds when all their CDs are gone.

geonsocal · June 2017

i hate it when others players don't just stand still when I attack...annoys me even worse when they fight back...

help me zos, help me...

Emma_Overload · June 2017

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

Dracindo · June 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

You can't compare Nightblades to Sorcerers. Overall, a Sorcerer can be more efficient than a Nightblade. You can't ask for a nerf of a skill from a "lesser" class, because one skill of the "Glorious Master" class is less efficient.
If that's how it works, then consider this:

Blur (NB skill) currently buffs dodge chance by 15% for 26 seconds.
Lightning form (Sorc skill) currently deals X shock damage every second AND gives major resolve and ward for 15 seconds.
Blur morphs either give you major expedition for 4 seconds or minor resolve and ward for the duration.
Lightning form morphs either give you a stamina version with greater range, more damage and minor expedition or increased duration and major expedition for 6 seconds.
What do I want: I want blur to be buffed, because I don't find it as usefull as lightning form. Either reduce the cost, or let it deal disease damage per second while at it.

Nightblades don't have anything they excel in, except ganking in Cyrodiil. Can't you just let them have that one thing?
#StopNBNerfs

Murador178 · June 2017

@Derra

I wouldnt even run cloak on a mag nb bc of necro shields or shields in general (also on a sorc) u can tank multiple enemies anyways. Mag nb got one problem in solo play, its hard to get an assasisins will up when u focused by 3 guys making it in a 1vX situation just a weaker mag sorc from my experience. Ofc u can go cloak blur and so on- but than ur dmg will be crap.

Sorc got some rly strong tools vs a stamblade- remember these dudes cant stack 20k shields ontop of their HP and dodgerolling drains stam pretty fast. Ur counters as mag sorc to cloak are rly good with curse+ streak+ meteor/soulassault+wall of elements+ poisoins+lightning form. Ontop of that cloak breaks quite often randomly.

Stamblades permacloaking normally use proc sets for their damage: like viper+selene+hunt with poisons. A normal nb can cloak 3 times and is out of magicka.

I'd recommend u playing a stamblade in duels and cyro without proc sets and u will see their weaknesses- its defeniatley alot more reactive than shieldstacking. If u get hit by a frag+ curse without rolling and both crit u are dead. There are also more reactive mag sorc players out there: legendary mage tends to roll most burst combos with his mag sorc making him extrem hard to kill.
I logged in since a while and dueled: I was still the only medium armor nb there...

olsborg · June 2017

Bashev wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I just hope zos uses old code again so cloak get put back in a remotely balanced state by being fundamentally broken like it was last patch.

A stamblade that´s built for cloaking can´t be caught by any projectile based built that does not have access to mark - unless they´re bad.

This man got it. Listen to him. Currently when cloak is fixed it is OP. Magicka NBs can absolutely spam it. Stamina ones use speed and roll dodge and then cloak. The only real counter is Mark target and it is accessible only for other NBs.

@Bashev So now that it's working as intended throughout all these years it is now OP? I'm confused(Haven't pvp'd yet this patch), are you not able to counter NBs at all? Detect pots/Aoe/Magelight/Flare is not a 'real' counter anymore? Interesting.

Detect pots - this goes specifically for projectile based build (which i happen to play). Cloak forcemisses projectiles (for about 1.5s) even when the NB is revealed with a potion. This means you pop a detect pot and you still won´t hit them. They will flatout "miss" even though you popped a pot to be able to attack the NB in the first place (that´s flatout bugged working in favor of the NB and has been for ages - most cloak fixes so far simply increased the time nbs are immune to projectiles after pressing the ability).

Yea I remember this bug, if its back then they should get it fixed asap.

Generally id like to add that cloak is finally in an ok place, its been broken forever tho. Sure if youre alone and youre trying to take out a cloaking nb you might have a difficult time if the nb is good, but as soon as there are 2+ ppl using counters...the nb is gonna have a very hard time getting away if said ppl uses the counters correctly.

I dont have issues with magNBs who use the skill for escape because they are not strong at all. But stam procblades just use it to turn the fight in their favour. You cannot just leave them when they escape because they will be back in 8-9 seconds when all their CDs are gone.

Yea I know, but this is just as much a problem with proccsets as it is with cloak.

Murador178 · June 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

I agree cloak should increase in cost on use -BUT that wont work aslong half the spells go through dodge roll and dodge roll cost increases per roll but shield spam doesnt. I wont even touch the annoying permablocking mag dks(or other classes) blockcanceling every spell.

soll · June 2017

use detection pots. it makes all NB very salty

fred4 · June 2017

I play a solo perma-cloaking magblade in IC. It means I can pick my fights and get from A to B faster, due to Concealed Weapon. Being able to bypass players and mobs alike is what makes NB what it is. I also like being able to scout out flags with detect pots. If cloak was nerfed, there probably wouldn't be much point for me playing the class anymore. I have no experience with sorc, but my magwarden hits far harder and has easier access to the Necropotence buff for bigger shields and damage.

Derra · June 2017

Murador178 wrote: »

@Derra

I wouldnt even run cloak on a mag nb bc of necro shields or shields in general (also on a sorc) u can tank multiple enemies anyways. Mag nb got one problem in solo play, its hard to get an assasisins will up when u focused by 3 guys making it in a 1vX situation just a weaker mag sorc from my experience. Ofc u can go cloak blur and so on- but than ur dmg will be crap.

Sorc got some rly strong tools vs a stamblade- remember these dudes cant stack 20k shields ontop of their HP and dodgerolling drains stam pretty fast. Ur counters as mag sorc to cloak are rly good with curse+ streak+ meteor/soulassault+wall of elements+ poisoins+lightning form. Ontop of that cloak breaks quite often randomly.

Stamblades permacloaking normally use proc sets for their damage: like viper+selene+hunt with poisons. A normal nb can cloak 3 times and is out of magicka.

I'd recommend u playing a stamblade in duels and cyro without proc sets and u will see their weaknesses- its defeniatley alot more reactive than shieldstacking. If u get hit by a frag+ curse without rolling and both crit u are dead. There are also more reactive mag sorc players out there: legendary mage tends to roll most burst combos with his mag sorc making him extrem hard to kill.
I logged in since a while and dueled: I was still the only medium armor nb there...

Dueling has quite frankly said nothing to do with open world pvp.
In dueling you don´t LOS and you don´t run from a fight. You fight until one opponent is dead.
In open world you try to burstcombo and run away. Locking down a nb after they failed their wombocombo is hard even against mediorce players.You won´t lock someone down who knows how to play the class ot it´s strenghs. The fight is entirely in their hands.

As for sorc countering NB (i have a working stamblade template i just don´t play it bc i don´t enjoy stam - it can cloak 4 to 5 times in a row without use of a pot just to give you perspective - so i have no idea what this "normal nb can cloak 3 times stems from" - a template with base magica and no magrec can cloak 3 times. Imo that´s just a bad template).

Curse: Entirely on the nbs skill to time cloak after the curse explodes.

Streak: I can consecutively cloak more often on my NB than i can streak on my sorc when both use potions. I can also combine that with shade + defensive fear + rolldodge + sprint (seriously a sorc won´t catch a sprinting nb). That means as a sorc trying to break cloak with offensive streaks (bad for open world vaible in duels bc in that case you can´t streak defensively) you have to spent just as much of your main resource pool due to stacking costs as the NB have to spent of their secondary utility resource pool (which is not vital to their survival).

Soulassaul: Literally gets countered by cloak not the other way round?

Meteor: I´ve not met a single player i´d consider atleast mediocre that did not block meteor in about 3 months of pvp (unless bugged bc of lag).

Poisons: Have the same issue as rml/flare. Only counters cloak - you loose a vital enchantment or universally useful poisons just to counter one skill of one class => bad.

I know that a sorc is hard to kill for a NB. But honestly i think it should be even harder as long as the fights begin and end open world are 100% at the decision of the NB.
I´m not even arguing NB as a whole is too good. I´m just saying that cloak has virtually no accessible working counters that don´t impair a builds functionality otherwise so severe that they´re not vaible.

Comfortably_Buzzed · June 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

There is nothing in the game that pulls a sorc out of bolt escape or prevents the sorc from bolt escaping for an amount of time. There are numerous things that do it for cloak.

Derra · June 2017

Comfortably_Buzzed wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

There is nothing in the game that pulls a sorc out of bolt escape or prevents the sorc from bolt escaping for an amount of time. There are numerous things that do it for cloak.

Then again if we´re nitpicking you still get the other buffs associanted with cloak.
There is chains.
Turning invisible is unarguably a lot stronger than changing position by 15 meters (when it´s working).

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

Thats like comparing apples and oranges. Roll dodge and Bolt Escape have fair comparisons which both have exponential costs.

Cloak is the single most counterable ability in the game. Every AoE in game... dedicated revealing abilitys... revealing potions and poisons... then we even have broken abilitys that are single target like crit rush breaking cloak.

You are just a salty sorc because you cant disengage by football field lengeths anymore.... even though you still technically can because of dark deal and prisonars rags with lightning form.

If you want an exponentail cost on cloak.. how about a cloak that cannot be revealed under any circumstances... because boltescape never looses value unless you bolt escape into a rut/wall which is player error.

MoeCoastie · June 2017

I think this thread is bait

Derra · June 2017

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Y'all shady NBs are missing the point. So what if Cloak has counters? Bolt Escape has counters, too, but it still got an EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost nerf! Where is the cost nerf for Cloak? It gets abused so much more than Bolt Escape ever did.

Thats like comparing apples and oranges. Roll dodge and Bolt Escape have fair comparisons which both have exponential costs.

Cloak is the single most counterable ability in the game. Every AoE in game... dedicated revealing abilitys... revealing potions and poisons... then we even have broken abilitys that are single target like crit rush breaking cloak.

You are just a salty sorc because you cant disengage by football field lengeths anymore.... even though you still technically can because of dark deal and prisonars rags with lightning form.

If you want an exponentail cost on cloak.. how about a cloak that cannot be revealed under any circumstances... because boltescape never looses value unless you bolt escape into a rut/wall which is player error.

I don´t know any (semi)competent NB who straightfaced says cloak isn´t rediculously op when it´s working.
Just as i don´t know any sorc saying the same thing about shieldstacking.