I'm not good at this game (possible minor spoiler)

architekt · June 2017

I'd like to be, because it's fun. But I'm realizing that I'm not very good at it. I'm playing a nightblade. I'm using a bow and dual wielding. I'm level 27, and a wood elf if it matters. I'm not interested in min/maxing (maybe I will be if I make it to end level, but first I need to get better at the game) or switching my weapon choices because I at least find these weapons to be fun and enjoyable. But my problem is in the skills to use and how to fight. I don't seem to have issues doing normal quests, but when I have to fight tougher enemies, I get wrecked. I've tried looking at guides but they're for characters above my level which doesn't help me because I don't have access to a lot of the skills they suggest. I also don't (yet) feel like doing pvp to get certain healing skills, that doesn't sound enjoyable (yet) to me at this stage of my character. Saving that til max level.

For example, I'm working through the Dark Brotherhood quest line. Each of the tougher bosses has killed me a ton of times. I just finally beat the Black Dragon. I thought that because I hadn't had any issues with the regular quests I was doing something right, but this DLC has shown me the error of my ways. I eventually beat her with the following skills:

Dual wield bar: Strife IV (forum post mentioned needing sustain), Blood Craze II (DOT seemed useful as did debuffs), Shadowy Disguise III to use with Surprise Attack III, Killer's Blade III, and ultimate is Incapacitating Strike II.

Bow bar: I removed several skills and added some buff/passives: Mark Target III (less resistance), Blur I (more defense), Scatter Shot IV, Focused Aim I, Arrow Spray II. Note that I didn't actually use my bow at all this fight, just MT and Blur, I'm including it though for completeness as I use them for basic quests.

But I still felt like I was flailing wildly and not really understanding why this was a good choice. I would start the fight with MT then Blur, then BC to get the DOT up and debuff. I'd try and keep these all up. But after that I basically just kept doing SD into SA (which didn't seem to always stealth me) and hit my ultimate when available. I'd try to add in some Strife for good measure, wasn't sure how effective it was but it seemed to help. But eventually I'd run out of stamina from the SD/SA combo, or magicka after spamming strife, and would just start wildly swinging light attacks, unsure of if/when to do a heavy attack. After a lot of swearing I finally beat her this time.

So I guess what I'm looking for is some advice on what skills would be useful at this point in my leveling to handle tougher mobs, as well as some general input on when I should be doing the light/heavy attacks vs. spamming my skills. I don't need a "rotation", just some general advice so I can at least start learning better. I don't want to reset my skills, I don't think I've done something incurably wrong with my choices (correct me if I'm wrong though). When I hit max level (or close enough) I plan on resetting and trying out a guide to see how that helps. Thanks for reading my long post.

architekt · June 2017

I'm not sure if there's a way to link my character so you can see my skills, but I do have others besides what I listed above. I tried to keep it focused, so it's mostly Assassination/Shadow with bow and dual wield. Picked up most of the passives and anything relating to stam regen or lowering stam costs.

Artemiisia · June 2017

for duel wield and bow, you wanna go stamina morphs of night blade skills for the most part, since those weapons are stamina weapons.

for attribute points, put all into stamina while leveling up

for bow you wanna get poison arrow last skill at one point, good dot and get 2nd skill for endless hall as well.

focused aim and arrow spray are more for pvp

for duel wield if you want more survibility the first skill can be morphed into a spammable skill that gives health back that combined with blood craze, gives a ton of survibilty

great nightblade skills are:
Killer blade execute for mobs under 25%
Surprise attack, that lowers the psy resis on enemies for 5k
Relentless focus, gives 10% more stam rec + 8% more damage
Leeching strikes, helps getting a better sustain
ultimate: incap strike

Artemiisia · June 2017

+ if you craft/buy or get one to make some buff food that gives max stam + max health for your level that will help alot

architekt · June 2017

Thanks for the swift reply. I'll give that a shot.

Waffennacht · June 2017

If you're sub 160 your gear is gonna need to be upgraded rather regularly to keep decent stats.

Example if I'm lvl 40 but using lvl 32 gear, I'll be down like 5-10k max resource pool and sub a minimum of 500 wpn/spell DMG.

Next, dlc content is more difficult than the non dlc stuff

Don't stress too much. Once you do get the higher levels your access to gear really opens up (such as Monster sets!)

Sounds like you're not doing all that bad really

BlackSparrow · June 2017

Heh, yeah...

My first character was also a dual-wielding Nightblade, and let me tell you... that is the squishiest build in the game. I love the playstyle, but their heals and sustain are just awful.

I remember the Black Dragon fight... particularly the one where she sends multiple projections of her at you at once. I got creamed multiple times in that fight, and I was at level 50 with 150 CP at the time. I don't often scream at the screen, but I did it a lot that night.

Here's some tips on how to survive with a stamblade main:

Don't underestimate the usefulness of the Siphoning line root skill. It's an excellent panic button against bosses, because if you're overwhelmed by a single opponent, you can smack them with that, then spend the next twenty seconds healing and letting your resources replenish. i only equip it on hard boss fights... but it has saved my squishy butt. I remember the Eastmarch final boss threw me around with his giant sword through about 4 deaths, until I equipped that and CCed him to an entirely manageable boss.
I highly recommend putting the DW ultimate on that bar. It does good DoT while healing you. It makes bosses a lot less painful by giving you some heal-over-time so you can concentrate on dealing damage.
Don't feel guilty to cheese it... you're a Nightblade, so you're supposed to find tricky ways to kill your enemies! Cloak mid-fight to interrupt their channel attack, then get behind them for a sneak attack! Dodge behind pillars and kite like the wind! One of my favorites is to cloak into a group of humanoid enemies and sneak up behind one for a Blade of Woe instakill. Also? Spamming flurry while literally strafing circles around the bosses. You'd be surprised how much time the bosses take to re-orient when you do this. It's cheese, but it works, and what is an NB who doesn't use every trick they can?
Steal bread. It's everywhere...in towns, in dungeons, out in the open world near campsites... Having a little Crusty Bread in the inventory can give you a little health boost for general PvEing, so you don't waste higher quality food on delves and "10 bear butt" quests.
And this one seems obvious... but learn the battle system backwards and forwards. Of any class, NBs are the ones who need to be most ready to react. We need to dodge what should be dodged, interrupt what should be interrupted, and block what should be blocked. If we don't, we're the first to get squished. The best gear in the world isn't going to help if a Watcher zaps you point-blank with his eye-of-doom death ray.

My biggest takeaway with running an NB is to be flexible. Level more skills than just the ten you put on your bar, because you never know what might be the right one to pull out on a tough boss. Shake up your strategy for a while, and try a couple different styles to see what sticks.

Good luck!

NordSwordnBoard · June 2017

architekt wrote: »

So I guess what I'm looking for is some advice on what skills would be useful at this point in my leveling to handle tougher mobs, as well as some general input on when I should be doing the light/heavy attacks vs. spamming my skills. I don't need a "rotation", just some general advice so I can at least start learning better. I don't want to reset my skills, I don't think I've done something incurably wrong with my choices (correct me if I'm wrong though). When I hit max level (or close enough) I plan on resetting and trying out a guide to see how that helps. Thanks for reading my long post.

Well, a rotation, even a basic one will help you manage resources and build muscle memory for you attack combos. Forget animation cancelling for now, just weave light attacks in between all skills and some heavy attacks thrown in too. Do some heavy attacks before you need the stamina, not near zero. Doing things "in order" will help you not waste/overlap skills, which extends their effectiveness and saves you resources.

Read about skill morphs before picking them, you may find a magic morph to a skill is actually way better than a stamina one despite being a stamblade. Some things work well in PvP, but not PvE and vice versa.

Find a guildie or pal with a target dummy and practice what works for you without the threat of death.

Kaymorolis · June 2017

@architekt It sounds like you are exactly where I was not all that long ago - having trouble staying alive on quest bosses, especially without the PVP skill Vigor.

The good news is that, while Vigor is really nice, you can get by without it. I still don't have it.

On your dual wield bar I would personally drop Shadowy Disguise and put Flurry in. You can morph it however you wish, but if you hare having health issues go with Bloodthirst.

Against groups of mobs what you'll want to do is Mark Target on one of them and whittle him down to 25% or less, then either Killer Blade him (if you are low on health) or switch to another mob until you need the heal, then kill the marked target with Killers Blade. Then mark another mob and repeat.

You will want to learn to weave light attacks (LA) in your rotation, as this will help you a lot later.

So this is how it might go:
1. Pop Blur just before entering combat.
2. Apply Strife and Bloodcraze
3. LA
4. Surprise Attack (for Major Fracture)
5. LA
6. Bloodthirst

Repeat 5/6 until Major Fracture wears off OR you need to refresh your DoT's OR the target hits 25% health. At 25% spam Killers Blade.

Now, when your Siphoning Skill line hits 30, get Siphoning Strikes and, ASAP, morph it to Leeching Strikes. With LS I don't use Strife, Blur, or Mark Target and I morphed all my other skills to the non-healing version (Bloodcraze becomes Rending Slashes, Bloodthirst became Rapid Strikes). Opinions of LS vary here on the forums, but I LOVE it.

If you are on the PC NA server, feel free to hit me up at @Corpboy if you'd like.

architekt · June 2017

Thanks all. This is a lot to go on, appreciate it!

Nestor · June 2017

Dark Brotherhood is a tough Guild to work through, not something I would reccomend to low level or, especially, a new player.

Anyway, here is my generic combat spiel, read and heed

Combat in this game comes down to Skill Rotations, with Light or Heavy Attacks interspersed. So, it's more like 1,2,3,4,1,2,3 dead. Pick your skill rotations so that one skill will set up or buff another skill. For example, use a skill that Snares, then a skill that gives Damage over Time to an area so the snared mobs spend longer in pain, then use a spam damage skill. This is just one example.

Once you learn a good rotation, then you can weave in light or heavy attacks between the skills to extend the resource pool you play from. So it's more like 1, LMB, 2, LMB,3, LMB, 4, LMB, 1 Dead. Then once you learn how to weave attacks, then you can start animation canceling to up your DPS.

So, attacks are not just a spam of the Left Mouse Button, but an application of your skills and weapon attacks.

You add in Blocking (reduce damage), Bashing (interrupting a caster or heavy attack wind up), Dodge Rolling (double click on a WASD key to avoid damage and get out of red quickly). Throw in some terrain advantage, and your basically a Mobile, Agile and Hostile wrecking machine.

As for Gear, well, while leveling, gear does not matter as long as you have something. It does not have to be best in slot, or even all that good. Also, we have lots of dropped set pieces so if you spend any time in a zone, you will more than likely pick up a set or two to wear. Each zone has a Magic, a Stamina and a Health or Tank set. Since everything scales, you can use this gear longer than you would think from the levels. It is only once you reach CP160 that you really want to worry about the gear, and by then you will have a good idea of what to use and where to farm for it.

Until then, the most important thing with gear is to wear a mix of it (light/medium/heavy) so they all level up somewhat equally. Also, have one skill from each of the 3 class skill lines on your bar at all times, and at least one weapon skill. For the 5th, it can be another weapon or attack skill or a support skill or some skill you want to level.

architekt · June 2017

Oh wow. I followed the advice here, grinded some skyshards to get missing skills (well ones that I wasn't level-locked out of anyway) and I just beat Artorius with pretty much 0 issue whatsoever. I was way more survivable and I didn't run out of stamina, now that I have a better grasp on when to weave in light attacks. Thanks a ton.

BuyMe500Pugs_Please · June 2017

I was kind of the same around that level, enemies weren't harder it's just more of them. Most of my skills I had morphed wrongly or not used, I wasn't feeding on anyone so I'm at stage 4 vampirism which made it horrible, then i found siphoning strikes morph and steel tornado. Best of all was bloodthirst which is great although I chose the other morph at first before changing my skills. Also soul tether is my ultimate, primarily use it if I'm in serious danger and it hasn't failed me yet

davey1107 · June 2017

Others have given generally good advice. I'll try to add different tips. You're at a point where you're starting to really learn the game mechanics. It's why it seems tough. Levels 30-40 are probably the hardest in a nightblades life. But I main a stamblade...I love him more than all the others...and what I always tell people is that if they learn to play a stamblade, then they can walk into any other class and master it pretty quickly. The class forces you to learn to be a better player. Here's so,e advice for your specific level and player expertise:

- Keep leveling those skill lines. Try to keep your class skill lines leveled pretty evenly (don't let one fall behind). And you're a nightblade...you have cloak...there's no excuse not to go raid every sky shard in the game, lol. If you unlock a passive in any line that helps you, get the skill point and activate it.

- you're right that you can't really screw skill morphs up too bad. Don't fret. Just choose stamina versions when available, or choose morphs that focus on physical, disease or poison damage as opposed to magic, frost, fire and shock. Respec for morphs is cheap...feel free to experiment and try different variations. Respec for all points is more expensive, but you probably won't need this except for rare occasions.

- dual wield / bow is awesome. You can play a NB with these to end game and beyond. I also use a 2h in some situations, but dw/bow is the right track. Bow is a little wonky for newbies because they moved poison inject to the last skill to unlock, which is stupid IMO...just know the bow will get more and more useful.

- at your level, start learning about gear sets. Your character has 11 or 12 slots. Success as you get to vet is increasingly dependent on making the most of these. Learn how sets work, start learning which are better, and start thinking about how to use your gear to stack as many buffs as possible.

- start learning about fighting buffs, and which of your abilities apply them. Major brutality and major savagery are your most important stamblade buffs. They each increase your damage massively, and working together they put it through the roof.

- speaking of which, if you haven't turned on combat text I recommend it. Seeing the numerical value for damage is massively helpful for new players. It will teach you which abilities work better, and also how to get the most from each hit. For example, your bow has a passive that increases damage for 5 seconds after light attacks. Go experiment and watch your damage, and learn how to output more.

- when I first played, I did exactly what you're doing...I just took my stamblade wherever the hell i wanted, fought what I wanted, and I paid the armor repair fees for it, lol. The only thing I'd do different if I were a young NB again is I'd pvp more earlier. Vigor and Caltrops are two VERY powerful skills. Yes, it takes work. But I guarantee you that 8ish hours in pvp to get these will save you from hundreds of deaths and endless frustration.

Vigor requires 100,000 AP. Caltrops is 180,000. You only need a couple of good pvp sessions to get there. Go in on a busy night, and use text chat to find a group. (Just zone chat LFG. Feel free to say you're a pvp newbie looking to learn). Sometimes you'll get into a good group, sometimes not. When it's a good group, people tend to talk (endlessly) and are actively being helpful. You'll learn a lot about the game in a good group.

A keep capture is worth 6,000 AP minimum. Resources are 1.6k each. All you have to do is be standing on grounds when these flip. So following a group (or just going solo) and helping take a keep and all three resources is 10,500 ap. Nine keeps and you've got vigor, 18 and you've unlocked caltrops. Not counting all the AP you get via wall repairs, kills, etc. Or go,defend from a wall with your bow...you share AP for any kills, and successful defense pays out a big tick. There are also 5 repeatable pvp quests at your base that pay good AP. Like I said, a combo of these ap gains and you'll get there pretty quick.

Pro tip: when in pvp, once per hour go into any delve in Cyrodiil (carefully, lol) and kill a named boss. This will put a Blessing of War buff on your character sheet that increases AP gains by 20% for 1 hour. Bam. We just cut your grind by 1/5th.

The reason I wrote those longish tips is that you should be driven insane by your desire for vigor and caltrops, lol. I can't explain how helpful,these are to young Nightblades. These are vet figures, but my stamblade has 18k max health. Vigor heals him for 8,000, then like another 8,000 over 5 seconds. One vigor is equivalent to like 25 siphoning soul sucky things. It's HUGE in a tight spot. And my caltrops drops a circle that does like 5k damage per second to everything in it for 12 seconds. All of those fights where you want to focus on a boss but mobs are pestering you? Bam...caltrops...the mobs are burned to dust very quickly. A burst heal and good AOE are the two things your NB just can't get from class skills. So the sooner you pvp and unlock them, the better.

Enjoy your Nightblade. Like I said...they are tough to learn and tough to master, but making one your first character will make you a much better player. And when all else fails...cloak and run like hell...

drakhan2002_ESO · June 2017

One thing to consider is changing classes. I am talking about the Stamina Warden class. Here's why - what the NB lacks in self-heals and defense, the Warden makes up for it. My Stamina Warden is DW/Bow, just like your NB, but the class skills of the Warden with heals, regen, and defensive abilities can make for a fun "thief" type persona.

After I finished Morrowind, I set out to complete TG and DB - wow...so much fun. I consider my Warden a hunter/thief type character and look forward to playing that class much more in the future.