ESO Graphics Extender - Is it legal to use or not?

EIGHTS · June 2017

There is a interesting addon called 'ESO Graphics Extender'.
esoui.com/downloads/info1732-ESOGraphicsExtender.html#info

Could we have an official answer?
Is it legal to use or not?

ZunaRoath · June 2017

I was about to ask the same.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Please, can we get an answer on this?

Elsonso · June 2017

You might have to open a support ticket. Work through the process of explaining it to them over the course of a week or two, at least until it gets routed to the proper person, and then you will get an answer. They do answer these sorts of questions. Document the answer in here so we can all see it.

Danikat · June 2017

Isn't it basically just a pre-set for a shader program? (In spite of the claims main in the description.)

As far as I know shaders don't change anything except how the game looks on your end, so I can't see how there it would be a problem.

Nestor · June 2017

Fog Removers have been around since the games release and ZOS has never stopped them from being used.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Fog Removers have been around since the games release and ZOS has never stopped them from being used.

This ^

SirAndy · June 2017

Nestor wrote: »

Fog Removers have been around since the games release and ZOS has never stopped them from being used.

It's not just about removing FOG though ...

Stop for a second and think about the possibilities for cheating (PvP comes to mind) when one has access to the depth buffer.

ZunaRoath · June 2017

I sent a ticket and I got the following answers:

Elsonso · June 2017

ZunaRoath wrote: »

I sent a ticket and I got the following answers:

Thanks for posting this.

Nestor · June 2017

SirAndy wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Fog Removers have been around since the games release and ZOS has never stopped them from being used.

It's not just about removing FOG though ...

Stop for a second and think about the possibilities for cheating (PvP comes to mind) when one has access to the depth buffer.

I have, it does not matter how much Fog you remove, it is the Render Distance that determines if you can see other Players or Objects. And, you can set that distance out quite a ways with the Fog. So this gives no advantage in PvP.

SirAndy · June 2017

Nestor wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Fog Removers have been around since the games release and ZOS has never stopped them from being used.

It's not just about removing FOG though ...
Stop for a second and think about the possibilities for cheating (PvP comes to mind) when one has access to the depth buffer.

I have, it does not matter how much Fog you remove, it is the Render Distance that determines if you can see other Players or Objects. And, you can set that distance out quite a ways with the Fog. So this gives no advantage in PvP.

@Nestor
Lets start with:
Having access to the depth buffer during rendering allows you to modify depth values so that certain objects (walls etc.) fail the depth test when rendered and become invisible.

Is that enough of an advantage for you or should i go on?

Nestor · June 2017

And where is the advantage in that? You still have to break down the wall to get through it, and that alerts the defenders.

GrigorijMalahevich · June 2017

ZunaRoath wrote: »

I sent a ticket and I got the following answers:

Let me translate what customer service have replied to you - "I have no idea, but here is a general answer that we send to everyone"

If it looks like cheating, smells like cheating and feels like cheatig - it is not going to be bacon, I can bet on that.

ZunaRoath · June 2017

Long ago I did find an answer on about ESO Launcher from the customer support in reddit, saying it was alright on using them. I don't have the link anymore tho. So yeah, maybe they don't really know.

Easily_Lost · June 2017

Well it looks like that if you are still using it, it must be fine. Otherwise they would have asked ESOUI to remove it from the website.
So I would say use it, and don't worry about it.

JasonSilverSpring · June 2017

Valera Progib wrote: »

ZunaRoath wrote: »

I sent a ticket and I got the following answers:

Let me translate what customer service have replied to you - "I have no idea, but here is a general answer that we send to everyone"

If it looks like cheating, smells like cheating and feels like cheatig - it is not going to be bacon, I can bet on that.

Exactly this. Also, note that this graphical enhancer uses hook64 and reshade which have both been around for ESO for some time. And, neither alters any game files.

I am using the reshade portion of the posted "mod" with no issues. I personally don't care for the side effects of removing fog in the game. It really can open up some awkward visuals when the game is not expecting to need to fill in an area. Looking down from the top of the steps in Vivec is a perfect example. The volcano is hovering and there are awful low-res trees and mushrooms around it. I do like the lighting adjustments though.

I do know there is a pay-to-unlock version of hook64, but I am not sure there are any impacts for ESO. That part might get iffy.

Bottom line, I think ESO will never fully endorse these as there is a risk for exploits, but if not used to exploit I doubt there will ever be an issue.

ookami007 · June 2017

"Great" customer service from ZoS, as per usual.

Invincible · June 2017

According to that support worker changing the value in the config file to allow for more add-on memory is also against the tos so I'd take that with a grain of salt.

altemriel · June 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

ZunaRoath wrote: »

I sent a ticket and I got the following answers:

Thanks for posting this.

"nice"

Docmandu · June 2017

Since it does what cheat programs also do, you are on a dangerous path... if you prefer to keep playing the game, play without it. Keep the executable mods/hooks for offline single player games.

Smasherx74 · June 2017

ookami007 wrote: »

"Great" customer service from ZoS, as per usual.

If ZOS goes on record stating "Hook64 and depth buffer access is allowed" then in the future if the creator of Hook64 or Reshade decide to program malicious features they would have to retract their statements and unban players who possibly intentionally exploited the game but made the argument "ZOS said I could do it".

SirAndy wrote: »

Lets start with:
Having access to the depth buffer during rendering allows you to modify depth values so that certain objects (walls etc.) fail the depth test when rendered and become invisible.

In shooters typically this sort of thing is an issue. If you can increase the brightness / make distant stuff visible you have a huge advantage. People do in fact use reshade to exploit in this manner. However in ESO it has no advantages.

SirAndy wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Fog Removers have been around since the games release and ZOS has never stopped them from being used.

It's not just about removing FOG though ...

Stop for a second and think about the possibilities for cheating (PvP comes to mind) when one has access to the depth buffer.

You would be right, about 3 years ago. However since then ZOS has specifically made player/enemy render distance separate from drawing distance. The end result is far off players in cyrodill will appear at a certain range, then disappear once they cross the threshold. To my knowledge ZOS actually banned then unbanned players in early 2014 for using Hook64, however it was address and made unexploitable. So since then it's been perfectly fine to increase your view distance, remove fog, etc.. As long as you don't somehow increase player render distance then you're fine.

Edit: Hope this posts help clarify some things for people. I will archive it for future reference.

Smasherx74 · June 2017

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

ZunaRoath wrote: »

I sent a ticket and I got the following answers:

Let me translate what customer service have replied to you - "I have no idea, but here is a general answer that we send to everyone"

If it looks like cheating, smells like cheating and feels like cheatig - it is not going to be bacon, I can bet on that.

Exactly this. Also, note that this graphical enhancer uses hook64 and reshade which have both been around for ESO for some time. And, neither alters any game files.

I am using the reshade portion of the posted "mod" with no issues. I personally don't care for the side effects of removing fog in the game. It really can open up some awkward visuals when the game is not expecting to need to fill in an area. Looking down from the top of the steps in Vivec is a perfect example. The volcano is hovering and there are awful low-res trees and mushrooms around it. I do like the lighting adjustments though.

I do know there is a pay-to-unlock version of hook64, but I am not sure there are any impacts for ESO. That part might get iffy.

Bottom line, I think ESO will never fully endorse these as there is a risk for exploits, but if not used to exploit I doubt there will ever be an issue.

I should of mentioned this in the release....

There is an option for high detailed distant objects. However your frames will not be happy about it at all.

Edit: Didn't realize there is a Pay 2 unlock version of Hook64... That makes me want to reverse engineer the program and replicate it. I may consider getting rid of Hook64 in the future if I come up with anything.

EIGHTS · June 2017

I think those programs don't use ZOS API. So it's illegal.
But ZOS doesn't ban any of 3rd party tools. So you can use it if you don't get caught.

Anyway, I won't use it.

JasonSilverSpring · June 2017

EIGHTS wrote: »

I think those programs don't use ZOS API. So it's illegal.
But ZOS doesn't ban any of 3rd party tools. So you can use it if you don't get caught.

Anyway, I won't use it.

Reshade and hook64 have been around for a long time for ESO. They are just graphical enhancers which don't impact gameplay or alter any game files. I have never heard of anyone getting actioned for using either.

EIGHTS · June 2017

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

Reshade and hook64 have been around for a long time for ESO. They are just graphical enhancers which don't impact gameplay or alter any game files. I have never heard of anyone getting actioned for using either.

Just as I said your own choice using 3rd party tools or not.
Illegal is illegal. No need to argue about it.

Prospero_ESO · June 2017

ookami007 wrote: »

"Great" customer service from ZoS, as per usual.

What kind of answer did you expect ? The GM told the official statement from ZOS that everything not using official API´s is illegal. Imagine the effort ZOS has to take to review add ons one by one to release a statement if it´s considered legal or not. And they would have to reevaluate that statement with every update of the add-on. This would be unmanageable.