So how is this setup for a dungeon healer?

Lavennin · June 2017

I sort of want to try out the monster sets (and get a bit more health, preferably over 20k), and have been wondering if these could work well (I know, I know, anything works in dungeons because they are so easy. I PUG so that's not the case.)

Head and shoulder slots: Troll King / Ilambris. Also interested in Mephala but not sure how that works only as a CC utility.

Body (4 slots): Clever Alchemist

Body (1 slot) and Jewelry: SPC

Resto staff: SPC

Lightning staff: Clever Alchemist

Jewelry enchants: 2 * potion CD reduction, in place of magicka regen.

What do you think? Not enough spell power/crit/magicka regen? I'm currently running a generic Julianos + Kena shoulder + SPC setup, and they work fine. As a NB I assume I shouldn't sacrifice DPS as that seems to be the selling point of a NB healer, so I'd also like to know how much Ilambris adds to DPS in general. Thanks!

Sunah · June 2017

Interesting set up. Only thing the set is lacking is spell crit which is pretty important. Id honestly say drop alch set for maybe a krag set. This way you can still rock the SPC and Monster gear. The ideal set up (in my opinion) would be to get SPC with krag, for dungeons. SPC/Worm cult for trials. Eventually weeding out your monster sets for a Master resto staff and Maelstrom destroy. Which I don't have because RNG hates me.

Lavennin · June 2017

Sunah wrote: »

Interesting set up. Only thing the set is lacking is spell crit which is pretty important. Id honestly say drop alch set for maybe a krag set. This way you can still rock the SPC and Monster gear. The ideal set up (in my opinion) would be to get SPC with krag, for dungeons. SPC/Worm cult for trials. Eventually weeding out your monster sets for a Master resto staff and Maelstrom destroy. Which I don't have because RNG hates me.

I like Kag's, but wouldn't I lose that 5-pc bonus when using my main weapon? I considered Alchemist because (I assume) the potion buff would stay even after a weapon swap. And Kag's don't have crit either. Sad.

Sunah · June 2017

Yes sadly you would lose the buff unless you swapped out 1pc of the monster set which im guessing you don't want to do. Regardless you would lose the set pc because of the weapons even running alch unless you weapon swap like you said you would.

Lavennin · June 2017

Sunah wrote: »

Yes sadly you would lose the buff unless you swapped out 1pc of the monster set which im guessing you don't want to do. Regardless you would lose the set pc because of the weapons even running alch unless you weapon swap like you said you would.

So even if I drink a potion when Alchemist is active, and get the buff, when I swap to SPC I immediately lose the buff? I thought it wouldn't act like this, seeing how it's a timed buff and not a set passive.

Then I guess monster sets aren't for me.

Sunah · June 2017

I mean if you are fine with weapon swapping there isn't much of a deal to it. But remember just having high spell damage isn't the only thing needed. With my set up and all my buffs proc'd my healer hits over 3k spell power with 40k magika. Not running any yellow gear and I still have 55% crit chance. You just want to make sure your numbers are right.

For instance there is no point in having 5k spell power if you sit at 20k magika (just tossing out random numbers). You would get like 5 spells off and be oom unless you rock some high ass recovery. Which means you are lacking in other stats still.

Remember you get I believe the number is 1 "effective" spell power" per 10.5 max magicka. So try to mess around with the numbers a bit. You will not see the number on your character sheet but it will show up on your skills. Such as healing springs heals for x amount. Mess with the numbers a bit and see which one is higher. Try to run atleast 50% crit as well. Crit healing is so nice.

TARAFRAKA · June 2017

No one seems to be asking the most obvious question why are you running clever Alchemist on a dungeon healer

Lavennin · June 2017

Hmmm looks like I'll just craft a few sets and do some testing. I've been too comfortable with Julianos.

Lavennin · June 2017

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

No one seems to be asking the most obvious question why are you running clever Alchemist on a dungeon healer

It's the thing with monster sets. Troll King for example looks useful, but I also want to have two 5pc bonuses. Supposedly CA 5pc works so long I have 5pc when drinking a potion, and it has health. If there are better or similar sets let me know.

Sunah · June 2017

TARAFRAKA wrote: »

No one seems to be asking the most obvious question why are you running clever Alchemist on a dungeon healer

Well it was obvious when he said he wanted to run a monster set haha. Using the alchemist lets him switch to his off bar to pop a potion then switch back and still retain the buff. Its not a good set in general but I can see why he did it.

Like I said previously just mess around with different sets and make sure to get your numbers right. If you are strictly sticking with vet dungeon healing than you have plenty of room to experiment. But trials almost requires certain things to help out the raid. Hence why I mention SPC/Worm. My stats:
17k hp (kind of want it higher but I would have to sack magicka)
40k magicka,
55% crit,
3.3k spell power (might be higher - at work so cant check) (this is also with my buffs proc'd - major sorc and spc)
900ish recovery (People like to have a lot of recovery but I heavy attack quite often so im comfortable with this amount, make sure to get as much as you feel like you can handle)

Lavennin · June 2017

I have a bit more recovery than you but a bit less magicka currently. I want higher HP too.

I assume people don't want to have a NB trial healer and don't really feel like proving myself. It's hardcore content after all and seems demanding, and I've got weak nerves

(Still having nightmares of my WOW raid days, when I was scolded and called bad names and mentally abused for making minor mistakes...so no more raid in this lifetime.)

Sunah · June 2017

Lavennin wrote: »

I have a bit more recovery than you but a bit less magicka currently. I want higher HP too.

I assume people don't want to have a NB trial healer and don't really feel like proving myself. It's hardcore content after all and seems demanding, and I've got weak nerves

(Still having nightmares of my WOW raid days, when I was scolded and called bad names and mentally abused for making minor mistakes...so no more raid in this lifetime.)

Hahah yeah nb healing is a little bit more difficult. I say that because its a completely different style of healing, they mainly use HoTs and damage mitigation skills to keep people up. Only thing I say they lack is a really burst "oh crap" heal like breath of life of that warden skill.

I also think the raiding environment is a little more stricter than wow only because the content is actually harder (lately). WoW pre Cata had some extremely difficult raids but now everything is easy mode and just handed to you.

Insomnia rex · June 2017

Lavennin wrote: »

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TARAFRAKA wrote: »

No one seems to be asking the most obvious question why are you running clever Alchemist on a dungeon healer

It's the thing with monster sets. Troll King for example looks useful, but I also want to have two 5pc bonuses. Supposedly CA 5pc works so long I have 5pc when drinking a potion, and it has health. If there are better or similar sets let me know.

Just confirming that it works the way you think it works.

Magdalina · June 2017

I'd advise against higher health actually. Maybe 20k tops. It's more than enough to survive the unavoidable heavy attacks. For everything else, you slot Annulment

I don't think there's much point in Alchemist. What use do you have for that extra spelldamage as a healer? It's extremely strong burst dps, mainly useful for PvP. Well it'd also be really strong burst heals but I can't think of a single fight where you'd really need it that much. If you really want a monster set(there isn't a monster set worth it for a PvE healer currently tbh), I'd say go 5 Lich or something. The recovery is always good for a healer, would stay after weapon swap and let you enchant jewelry with spellpower probably.

I usually heal vet dungeons at 16/17k health and it's very rare that I get one shot or use a potion

Sordidfairytale · June 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

I don't think there's much point in Alchemist. What use do you have for that extra spelldamage as a healer?

AFAIK all spell tooltip calculation is influenced by Spell Damage. That includes the healing calculation if I'm not mistaken.

However, magicka shields like hardened ward and annulment are calculated on max magicka alone. So with that in mind, the more bang for your buck would be an increased magicka pool. Unless I'm again mistaken (entirely possible) and there was a change in shield calculations.

Magdalina · June 2017

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

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Magdalina wrote: »

I don't think there's much point in Alchemist. What use do you have for that extra spelldamage as a healer?

AFAIK all spell tooltip calculation is influenced by Spell Damage. That includes the healing calculation if I'm not mistaken.

However, magicka shields like hardened ward and annulment are calculated on max magicka alone. So with that in mind, the more bang for your buck would be an increased magicka pool. Unless I'm again mistaken (entirely possible) and there was a change in shield calculations.

Yes, all magicka skills but shields and sorc pets(?) get influenced by spelldamage. But what's the point of a huge but very short heal buff in PvE while you could be rocking more regeneration at all times or something? It'll be useless for the majority of the time and I doubt it'll be vital when it is up either. I mean it's not even on demand, it's on potion usage...so if you actually use potions for sustain, you likely won't be able to hold off using one til heavy damage stage where the buff might have come in handy.

Out of "proc and swap" sets Lich would probably give most benefit because you could run that with 3 spellpower enchants I think, getting what...same ~500 spelldamage up at all times?

Admittedly I have never healed on a nightblade. But this setup, while interesting, is not needed (in PvE at least) I think.

Xvorg · June 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

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Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I don't think there's much point in Alchemist. What use do you have for that extra spelldamage as a healer?

AFAIK all spell tooltip calculation is influenced by Spell Damage. That includes the healing calculation if I'm not mistaken.

However, magicka shields like hardened ward and annulment are calculated on max magicka alone. So with that in mind, the more bang for your buck would be an increased magicka pool. Unless I'm again mistaken (entirely possible) and there was a change in shield calculations.

Yes, all magicka skills but shields and sorc pets(?) get influenced by spelldamage. But what's the point of a huge but very short heal buff in PvE while you could be rocking more regeneration at all times or something? It'll be useless for the majority of the time and I doubt it'll be vital when it is up either. I mean it's not even on demand, it's on potion usage...so if you actually use potions for sustain, you likely won't be able to hold off using one til heavy damage stage where the buff might have come in handy.

Out of "proc and swap" sets Lich would probably give most benefit because you could run that with 3 spellpower enchants I think, getting what...same ~500 spelldamage up at all times?

Admittedly I have never healed on a nightblade. But this setup, while interesting, is not needed (in PvE at least) I think.

What about withered hand for sustain instead of lich?

Asardes · June 2017

Clever Alchemist is garbage for PvE in general and for support roles especially. It only gives burst, a bit of health but little sustain. Seducer or Worm Cult are much better.

ascan7 · June 2017

Sunah wrote: »

Hahah yeah nb healing is a little bit more difficult. I say that because its a completely different style of healing, they mainly use HoTs and damage mitigation skills to keep people up.

Which skills NB healers have for mitigation?

Magdalina · June 2017

Xvorg wrote: »

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Magdalina wrote: »

Sordidfairytale wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

I don't think there's much point in Alchemist. What use do you have for that extra spelldamage as a healer?

AFAIK all spell tooltip calculation is influenced by Spell Damage. That includes the healing calculation if I'm not mistaken.

However, magicka shields like hardened ward and annulment are calculated on max magicka alone. So with that in mind, the more bang for your buck would be an increased magicka pool. Unless I'm again mistaken (entirely possible) and there was a change in shield calculations.

Yes, all magicka skills but shields and sorc pets(?) get influenced by spelldamage. But what's the point of a huge but very short heal buff in PvE while you could be rocking more regeneration at all times or something? It'll be useless for the majority of the time and I doubt it'll be vital when it is up either. I mean it's not even on demand, it's on potion usage...so if you actually use potions for sustain, you likely won't be able to hold off using one til heavy damage stage where the buff might have come in handy.

Out of "proc and swap" sets Lich would probably give most benefit because you could run that with 3 spellpower enchants I think, getting what...same ~500 spelldamage up at all times?

Admittedly I have never healed on a nightblade. But this setup, while interesting, is not needed (in PvE at least) I think.

What about withered hand for sustain instead of lich?

Had to look that one up - "restore stuff when an enemy dies"? Sounds bad. 100% useless for boss fights that don't have ads.

Edit: on side note, I'm not advocating Lich as best PvE healing setup, I'm just saying it's best one in the "proc and swap" category. I'd still recommend Worm or something over it, I don't feel sustain is that a big issue for healers right now. Lich would allow you to run more spelldamage as opposed to Worm though I think, indirectly buffing your heals. Worm is just more group benefit which can't hurt.

Lavennin · June 2017

Thank you all for the advice!

I never considered Lich and Magdalina you are right, that looks better with jewelry enchants. I don't have a magicka problem, but if I try to use a Monster Set there probably isn't any better option left. I was trying to make the AC buff last longer (so it's less of a burst) by reducing potion CD, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it. I'll try to get Lich first (Ahhh...RNG). Is it also a pretty popular set?

Magdalina · June 2017

Lavennin wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice!

I never considered Lich and Magdalina you are right, that looks better with jewelry enchants. I don't have a magicka problem, but if I try to use a Monster Set there probably isn't any better option left. I was trying to make the AC buff last longer (so it's less of a burst) by reducing potion CD, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it. I'll try to get Lich first (Ahhh...RNG). Is it also a pretty popular set?

Lich is very popular for PvP, less so for PvE. You'd probably be able to find people to farm it with without too much issues.

What monster set do you want so much though? I actually wish there was a viable on for a healer but I really don't think there is:/

Lavennin · June 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

show previous quotes

Lavennin wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice!

I never considered Lich and Magdalina you are right, that looks better with jewelry enchants. I don't have a magicka problem, but if I try to use a Monster Set there probably isn't any better option left. I was trying to make the AC buff last longer (so it's less of a burst) by reducing potion CD, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it. I'll try to get Lich first (Ahhh...RNG). Is it also a pretty popular set?

Lich is very popular for PvP, less so for PvE. You'd probably be able to find people to farm it with without too much issues.

What monster set do you want so much though? I actually wish there was a viable on for a healer but I really don't think there is:/

There are a few sets that look like they can be good (Troll King, and the popular DPS sets) but I admit I just want to try different things, see if it works/is more fun. Since it's just dungeons, I guess there's some room for that.

Kozai · June 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

What monster set do you want so much though? I actually wish there was a viable on for a healer but I really don't think there is:/

If you PUG heal much, you know that it is very easy to run into a group with low dps. I spent an hour and 40 minutes on a normal mode FG 2 the other morning with a PUG, I was on a new Warden, and I was really wishing I'd had my Illambris set from my Sorc healer or my Grothdar set from my Templar healer. . .

I agree, if you are healing a HM Vet dungeon or trial, you need to specialize more, and I carry different gear sets on my mature characters for those kinds of situations, without full Monster sets.

Magdalina · June 2017

Lavennin wrote: »

show previous quotes

Magdalina wrote: »

Lavennin wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice!

I never considered Lich and Magdalina you are right, that looks better with jewelry enchants. I don't have a magicka problem, but if I try to use a Monster Set there probably isn't any better option left. I was trying to make the AC buff last longer (so it's less of a burst) by reducing potion CD, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it. I'll try to get Lich first (Ahhh...RNG). Is it also a pretty popular set?

Lich is very popular for PvP, less so for PvE. You'd probably be able to find people to farm it with without too much issues.

What monster set do you want so much though? I actually wish there was a viable on for a healer but I really don't think there is:/

There are a few sets that look like they can be good (Troll King, and the popular DPS sets) but I admit I just want to try different things, see if it works/is more fun. Since it's just dungeons, I guess there's some room for that.

Troll King is probably the only "healing" set that actually comes close to being viable.

Experimenting is a not a bad thing

Hm...I don't think there's an easier acquireable "proc and swap" alternative to Lich then, good luck with the farming x_x Unless you'd be content settling for just 4 piece bonus.

Asardes · June 2017

Troll King is used a lot in PvP because normal healing is reduced to 50% by battle spirit, so high health recovery, up to 2K or more becomes viable, especially in a heavy armor setup that also mitigates most of the incoming damage - battle spirit also reduces damage by 50% by default. In PvE it's not useful, since that 1K extra recovery would take at least 8s to heal everybody right up if they dived under 50% HP. And as a MagNB most of your heals are already HoT. So it's totally redundant for any PvE healer. Backbar Lich or Warlock (not as good since the proc is not amplified by your % bonuses) could be a solution if you are running just 4 man dungeons. Also running <1K base recovery is not recommended this patch. Of course you can recover a lot of magicka from heavy attacks, but you should not rely exclusively on that. Heals, just like other spells, are affected by spell damage, maximum magicka and spell critical so stacking those is useful, to a point. You can end up overhealing when you are able to heal, but unable to sustain in longer, faster paced fights where you need to manage resources more carefully. So you have to have sustain. 1.5K or higher magicka recovery and/or some cost reduction glyphs are required.

As for gear SPC is pretty much BiS for any healer build, but you also need a sustain and/or group support set:
- Worm Cult supports the group, especially if you are running with magicka DDs by reducing everyone's cost by 4%. Doesn't look like much but it's equivalent to ~150 recovery on average.
- Sanctuary amps the healing received, including that from any self-heals that people slot (ex. Vigor) or implicitly get from their abilities (ex. Leeching Strikes, Surge). Apparently not as good as others because it givers a health and healing received bonus but it allows you to safely run Withcmother's Brew for more sustain without dipping too low in terms of HP.
- Combat Physician gives the healed player a strong shield on a critical heal (note that it only procs if that player has already taken damage) and partially removes the need for burst heals in 4 man content. Note that this set is advantageous if you are already running high spell critical.
- Armor of the Seducer - only helps you but it gives 8% magicka cost reduction, which is really good. It's equivalent to ~300 recovery, which is like running Atronach mundus with 6-7 divines.

If you really want to go high end (note that those sets are only found in trials):
- Twilight Remedy - every time a synergy is activated that player receives minor force, saving them a slot for trap.
- Mending - healing in an area reduces the enemy weapon damage.

Note that the said sets need to be active full time to be fully effective, so they can't be run with a full monster set ans SPC. You can use an 1p that gives spell damage/spell critical/maximum magicka/magicka recovery or a set of staves that give special bonuses, like those from vDSA & vMA.

Lexifer452 · June 2017

Haven't read through the whole thread but just wanted to say that there are far, far better options when it comes to gearing a healer than clever alchemist. That's a burst damage gear set.

The old standby of spell power cure plus worm's raiment is always a good bet.

Spc plus ebony armory is good too if you or your group needs the health.

Kagrenac's isn't bad for a healer/support role is you need a crafted option. I'd probably go for julianos or seducer though if that's the case. Julianos for more spell damage and crit or seducer if you need the sustain assistance.

These are just a few options as there are a number of excellent setups for healers. A lot more variety for sure when gearing healers compared to dps, generally speaking. Tanks have a lot of options also but that's another thread.

Good monster sets for healers that I like to use, or have used by healer in group, are chokethorn and rkgumaz. Both of those put out a pretty good area heal fairly often. Other ones worth using are troll king, bogden's nightflame, engine guardian if you need the sustain, infernal guardian for some added passive damage as long as you are using harness or healing ward.

I like troll king a lot less than the other option I've mentioned but that's because, for me, health regent is an absolutely useless stat. And really, its more suited to helping support the tank in your group than anyone else. Very seldomly will any dps still be below 60% health after being healed. If tank support is what you need, go for it, but more often than not its not neccessary. IMO anyways.

If you'll don't need the supplemental proc heals from chokethorn, rkgumaz or nightflame i'd go for lord warden maybe. It provides an excellent group resistance buff that is often overlooked by a lot of players. This could help in bad pug groups where dps are to incompetent to stay out of the red. Though if that's really a major concern you might be better off finding a guild. Lol.

Anyways, best of luck with your healing..

Asardes · June 2017

Ebon should always be worn by the tank since it's a heavy set, with healthy jewelry and no bonuses that are useful for a healer or any other magicka build.

Magdalina · June 2017

Asardes wrote: »

Ebon should always be worn by the tank since it's a heavy set, with healthy jewelry and no bonuses that are useful for a healer or any other magicka build.

There's actually a unique Arcane ring I believe.

However yes, this set is much better suited for a tank; furthermore, this set also very frequently is worn by a tank and since the 5 pc boni don't stack that'd render it completely useless.

Dakmor_Kavu · June 2017

If you're running a warden healer definitely consider the twilight remedy set. Since the bloom synergy will be out there for folks to use nearly 100% of the time, and multiple people can use it each time (not fighting for it like spears or orbs), they'll be getting a regular hot applied, and a great 12% critical damage boost! Worth a look for sure on any warden healer.

botanist92 · June 2017

im just wondering why ppl like to use worm cult. it feels like 5% is rather insignificant to me. maybe i havent started that stage yet and 5% is provided i have all gold... so im probably sticking to purple and 4% reduction for now. dont really see how useful that is though.