Warden's Impaling Shards and its Morphs

Tethalion · June 2017

Hello Forum,

This has been nagging at me for a while, so I'd finally like to ask. The Warden skill Impaling Shards has two morphs, the damage of one scales-off health (Gripping Shards) while the other magicka (Winter's Revenge). However I've noticed that the damage difference is really large, more than double, almost triple. Is that the way it's supposed to be?

I'm mostly stamina based, but I still have some points put into health. Whether it's my Health attribute points or Max Health pool, both are quite a bit larger than my Magicka/Max-Magicka. Yet I still find that Winter's Revenge will do a lot more damage than its counterpart (with no points invested in Magicka).

If that's exactly how it's supposed to be (presumably because of the immobilising) then alright, I just wanted to ask and see if anyone else thought it's a little odd.

Thanks for reading.

olsborg · June 2017

Also noticed this and came to the conclusion that its just a root basicly, like dks talons. The dmg from the shards is really irrelevant even at 25k+ health imo.

CTSCold · June 2017

I'd hazard a guess at it being a utility vs dmg trade off. I mean we don't need tanks in dungeons and trials doing dps level dmg and we certainly don't need ice tanks in pvp doing insane dmg with a root.

CP5 · June 2017

I made a warden tank stacking health intending to combo the skills that scale off max hp. Even when built this way the gripping shards morph doesn't even do 100 more damage even with an abysmal maigkca pool.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

It really is as simple as one is a tank cc option and the other is a magic dps. Don't think too hard about it.

subtlezeroub17_ESO · June 2017

If a root could also deal heavy damage, the crying would be epic.

The root is tank / pvp focused.

The_Conjurer · June 2017

I want to go through module now with a tank that has one ability on his bar: Talons. With him just stands in the middle of it all spamming it for dps haha

Autolycus · June 2017

I run a max health/harass/support Warden for BGs and it's working out very well. It's not built to get a lot of kills, but it does get me some kills from time to time and I've been able to use it objectively (such as killing a relic carrier). The build itself is very good in terms of sustain/survivability and mobility; it works quite well in objective-based games like in BGs.

I'm running Plague Doc + Mother's Sorrow + Iceheart. The CC is real. Borderline troll build, but I don't think it's too trollish when playing the objective. It's really only trollish if not playing the objective, like if I was to CC-lock a relic carrier and keep them out of their group.

Dixa · June 2017

I can't get enough health to compare to my magicka pool to test, but the magicka morph does more damage per tick than elemental bulwark.

Code2501 · June 2017

Scaling on magicka means scaling on magicka + spell power vs scaling on health alone. Also the power quotent is different for each stat.

Reorx_Holybeard · June 2017

The Health morph only does 2% of your Max Health in damage. Even if you have massive health (+80k) the Magicka morph will exceed this damage in even a very basic build (37k Magic,a 2.4k Spell Damage). If you're a Stamina build with ~20k Health then the Magicka morph does twice as much damage.

Gaden.Phoenix · June 2017

Winter's Revenge is not that great an AoE for a DPS.

Sure it brings utility to dungeons but really in the end in ESO, all content is based on DPS race being the best utility.

Tethalion · June 2017

Given all that, I can't help but wonder what's the point of scaling against max-health?

Even when a character of proper and intended Max-Health build can still do considerably more damage by using the Winter's Revenge morph, then why have one of the morphs (Gripping Shards) damage-scale off Max-Health at all? I mean it still costs magicka and still does Frost damage. Why have the mechanic of scaling it to health when it could have just been left as a normal magicka morph that came with immobilising but did less damage?

What's the thinking?

I'd like to clarify here that this isn't about the lower damage of Gripping Shards. Like many have stated already, it's a tanking utility skill, and having it immobilise and also do effective damage would be unbalanced, especially in PvP.

However the fact that the damage is specifically scaled off Max-Health makes me think there should at least be an intended reason, when they could have just left it to scale off Max-Magicka, and a Health orientated toon would've still done the same if not more damage.

ADarklore · June 2017

Gaden.Phoenix wrote: »

Winter's Revenge is not that great an AoE for a DPS.

Sure it brings utility to dungeons but really in the end in ESO, all content is based on DPS race being the best utility.

It's interesting you say that because if you compare tool tip, it's more damage and lasts longer than Elemental Blockade.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

Tethalion wrote: »

Given all that, I can't help but wonder what's the point of scaling against max-health?

Even when a character of proper and intended Max-Health build can still do considerably more damage by using the Winter's Revenge morph, then why have one of the morphs (Gripping Shards) damage-scale off Max-Health at all? I mean it still costs magicka and still does Frost damage. Why have the mechanic of scaling it to health when it could have just been left as a normal magicka morph that came with immobilising but did less damage?

What's the thinking?

I'd like to clarify here that this isn't about the lower damage of Gripping Shards. Like many have stated already, it's a tanking utility skill, and having it immobilise and also do effective damage would be unbalanced, especially in PvP.

However the fact that the damage is specifically scaled off Max-Health makes me think there should at least be an intended reason, when they could have just left it to scale off Max-Magicka, and a Health orientated toon would've still done the same if not more damage.

The thinking is that one is a tank cc option, NOT a DPS option and the other is the damage one, really come on man, to are over thinking this, you really need to relax.

Tethalion · June 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tethalion wrote: »

Given all that, I can't help but wonder what's the point of scaling against max-health?

Even when a character of proper and intended Max-Health build can still do considerably more damage by using the Winter's Revenge morph, then why have one of the morphs (Gripping Shards) damage-scale off Max-Health at all? I mean it still costs magicka and still does Frost damage. Why have the mechanic of scaling it to health when it could have just been left as a normal magicka morph that came with immobilising but did less damage?

What's the thinking?

I'd like to clarify here that this isn't about the lower damage of Gripping Shards. Like many have stated already, it's a tanking utility skill, and having it immobilise and also do effective damage would be unbalanced, especially in PvP.

However the fact that the damage is specifically scaled off Max-Health makes me think there should at least be an intended reason, when they could have just left it to scale off Max-Magicka, and a Health orientated toon would've still done the same if not more damage.

The thinking is that one is a tank cc option, NOT a DPS option and the other is the damage one, really come on man, to are over thinking this, you really need to relax.

It's just a point of curiosity, so I think maybe it's you who actually needs to relax. Anyway, it's not the damage I'm querying about, but the reason behind scaling it to Max-Health. There's no confusion whether it's a tanking or DPS option, simply wondering why add the mechanic of scaling damage off health when Gripping Shards could function the same as a Tanking CC morph if it were just a normal skill-morph that worked off magicka.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

Tethalion wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Tethalion wrote: »

Given all that, I can't help but wonder what's the point of scaling against max-health?

Even when a character of proper and intended Max-Health build can still do considerably more damage by using the Winter's Revenge morph, then why have one of the morphs (Gripping Shards) damage-scale off Max-Health at all? I mean it still costs magicka and still does Frost damage. Why have the mechanic of scaling it to health when it could have just been left as a normal magicka morph that came with immobilising but did less damage?

What's the thinking?

I'd like to clarify here that this isn't about the lower damage of Gripping Shards. Like many have stated already, it's a tanking utility skill, and having it immobilise and also do effective damage would be unbalanced, especially in PvP.

However the fact that the damage is specifically scaled off Max-Health makes me think there should at least be an intended reason, when they could have just left it to scale off Max-Magicka, and a Health orientated toon would've still done the same if not more damage.

The thinking is that one is a tank cc option, NOT a DPS option and the other is the damage one, really come on man, to are over thinking this, you really need to relax.

It's just a point of curiosity, so I think maybe it's you who actually needs to relax. Anyway, it's not the damage I'm querying about, but the reason behind scaling it to Max-Health. There's no confusion whether it's a tanking or DPS option, simply wondering why add the mechanic of scaling damage off health when Gripping Shards could function the same as a Tanking CC morph if it were just a normal skill-morph that worked off magicka.

Again with all the words, just leave it as one morph as tank and one morph dps. Simple.

Tethalion · June 2017

Is it really so hard for you to understand? The question is already simple, why scale damage off Max-Health?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · June 2017

Tethalion wrote: »

Is it really so hard for you to understand? The question is already simple, why scale damage off Max-Health?

Because they don't want it to?

Code2501 · June 2017

Tethalion wrote: »

Is it really so hard for you to understand? The question is already simple, why scale damage off Max-Health?

Gimick. Fluff. Flavour. So its different. Take your pick.

SirCritical · June 2017

This skill would be more interesting if a synergy would be added to it. Like Talons.

CTSCold · June 2017

It was probably given max health so that DPS wouldn't use it. They want a high health warden tank to have an option without overpowering the mag DPS who would undoubtedly spam it in Cyrodiil making them no different than a talons dk.

For once can we just take something as an attempt to balance a skill for both PVP and PVE?

Waffennacht · June 2017

Tethalion wrote: »

Is it really so hard for you to understand? The question is already simple, why scale damage off Max-Health?

Probably so a tank with a large health pool will get some damage out of it?

Also, they probably didn't want a mirror of talons?

markdeloma · August 2018

Why people cry (or scary) about dps tank? Frost tank with Gripping Shards isn't dangerous tank in PVP at all! It's ver very weak. It's not scaling with any CP and VERY low scaling wih HP. Even in WOW tanks can be more interesting in PVP than in ESO.
Actually I don't like how today ESO community thinking about tanking in ESO. I was here since beta and gameplay was with idea - each class can be survivable, can heal yourself and a bit tanking. Today I see how 15k HP DD scraem in chat "take off from me that mob!!! Im dying!". People forget that ESO tank must tanking only bosses.
It's not WOW. And each tank class here, especially frost warden tank must be improved (in damage). Cos all other classes have already stuns and CC.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · August 2018

First, this thread is over a year old. So necro. Second, take a look at this thread, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/431310/near-immortal-tanks-introduced-update-19/p1 and you will see why people hate tanks that can do damage.