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Can't get used to sustain changes. No sustain = no fun
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am of the opinion that having a character that is so powerful that all content becomes trivial, while entertaining at first, fades rather quickly and has me looking elsewhere for entertainment. That is not a good formula for an MMO. Combat in an MMO needs to stay meaningful in order to retain players.
Or, would you rather they revert the sustain changes and add 2min-30min cooldown timers on skills? Personally, I've never found rigid rotations fun. I prefer combat to be dynamic.
Okay.
Then accept your not the target audience for a MMO built on a series where characters become that powerfull. Plenty of other MMO's fit that description.
And no, rigid rotations never really were fun. Which is why the new update making everyone run extremely rigid builds to get by makes no sense.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 13, 2017 2:32AM2 -
Draxius82✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I am of the opinion that having a character that is so powerful that all content becomes trivial, while entertaining at first, fades rather quickly and has me looking elsewhere for entertainment. That is not a good formula for an MMO. Combat in an MMO needs to stay meaningful in order to retain players.
Or, would you rather they revert the sustain changes and add 2min-30min cooldown timers on skills? Personally, I've never found rigid rotations fun. I prefer combat to be dynamic.
Okay.
Then accept your not the target audience for a MMO built on a series where characters become that powerfull. Plenty of other MMO's fit that description.
And no, rigid rotations never really were fun. Which is why the new update making everyone run extremely rigid builds to get by makes no sense.
Except I've been at MMOs since 1998/9. Which MMO had characters become that powerful and remained relevant?
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I am of the opinion that having a character that is so powerful that all content becomes trivial, while entertaining at first, fades rather quickly and has me looking elsewhere for entertainment. That is not a good formula for an MMO. Combat in an MMO needs to stay meaningful in order to retain players.
Or, would you rather they revert the sustain changes and add 2min-30min cooldown timers on skills? Personally, I've never found rigid rotations fun. I prefer combat to be dynamic.
Okay.
Then accept your not the target audience for a MMO built on a series where characters become that powerfull. Plenty of other MMO's fit that description.
And no, rigid rotations never really were fun. Which is why the new update making everyone run extremely rigid builds to get by makes no sense.
Except I've been at MMOs since 1998/9. Which MMO had characters become that powerful and remained relevant?
"Built on the series".
The Elder Scrolls series is a game about growing strong and exploring, and it's been doing just fine. As for which MMO, WoW comes to mind. After all, their wielding in universe artifacts now, and their doing just fine.
Powerfull does not necessarily mean godlike. But then, if you hate feeling empowered, then maybe something like darksouls is more for you.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 13, 2017 2:51AM2 -
Draxius82✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I am of the opinion that having a character that is so powerful that all content becomes trivial, while entertaining at first, fades rather quickly and has me looking elsewhere for entertainment. That is not a good formula for an MMO. Combat in an MMO needs to stay meaningful in order to retain players.
Or, would you rather they revert the sustain changes and add 2min-30min cooldown timers on skills? Personally, I've never found rigid rotations fun. I prefer combat to be dynamic.
Okay.
Then accept your not the target audience for a MMO built on a series where characters become that powerfull. Plenty of other MMO's fit that description.
And no, rigid rotations never really were fun. Which is why the new update making everyone run extremely rigid builds to get by makes no sense.
Except I've been at MMOs since 1998/9. Which MMO had characters become that powerful and remained relevant?
"Built on the series".
The Elder Scrolls series is a game about growing strong and exploring, and it's been doing just fine. As for which MMO, WoW comes to mind. After all, their wielding in universe artifacts now, and their doing just fine.
WoW reset the power creep with each expansion. ZOS is going about it differently. That's all. You cannot take combat philosophy of a single player game and put it in an MMO. It can't work. Or at most, not well.1 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
The pro solution is to learn to manage your resources and in the process become a better player. Its as simple as working out a rotation with heavy attack weaving involved in some specific moments. Heavy Attacking everything just leads to a boring playstyle. Using heavy attacks strategically makes the whole resource management thing more interesting.
I mean its not even frustrating to learn new things.
Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
Lol, you don't 'have to think' you just have to do heavy attacks. Sustain is actually easier now then before the patch once you adopt a heavy attack rotation, it's just slower and more mind numbingly boring.4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »I am of the opinion that having a character that is so powerful that all content becomes trivial, while entertaining at first, fades rather quickly and has me looking elsewhere for entertainment. That is not a good formula for an MMO. Combat in an MMO needs to stay meaningful in order to retain players.
Or, would you rather they revert the sustain changes and add 2min-30min cooldown timers on skills? Personally, I've never found rigid rotations fun. I prefer combat to be dynamic.
Okay.
Then accept your not the target audience for a MMO built on a series where characters become that powerfull. Plenty of other MMO's fit that description.
And no, rigid rotations never really were fun. Which is why the new update making everyone run extremely rigid builds to get by makes no sense.
Except I've been at MMOs since 1998/9. Which MMO had characters become that powerful and remained relevant?
"Built on the series".
The Elder Scrolls series is a game about growing strong and exploring, and it's been doing just fine. As for which MMO, WoW comes to mind. After all, their wielding in universe artifacts now, and their doing just fine.
WoW reset the power creep with each expansion. ZOS is going about it differently. That's all. You cannot take combat philosophy of a single player game and put it in an MMO. It can't work. Or at most, not well.
Exept, we were perfectly content with what we had before the 'expansion'. What people wanted, was more difficult content, which could have been retrofitted on with a better difficulty system which could have satisfied all parties.
So, I disagree. I think your still not the target audience for this game and I think we didn't need to reset the 'power creep'. I think the power creep stemmed from how the difficulty system was very binary in the first place, and I think it could have been handled better.
Difficulty systems with inherent limitations on resource management and damage could have solved both problems for the people who cared about them leaving everyone else to enjoy their time. The difficulty system had been begging for a third, or even fourth difficulty tier, with rewards that could possibly be customized at will instead of random drops as inclination to do them. Instead, they made everyone get out of the pool because of one section of the playerbases crying. Yours.
ZOS's is going about it poorly. End of story.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 13, 2017 3:03AM3 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭And ESO started exactly like this... but now suddenly went "LOL, nope, play Dark Souls". It's unexpected, unwanted and honestly cannot be justified with "spirit of franchise". If I wanted to play Dark Souls, I would.
I disagree, as a continuous player from beta to now this game has gotten waaaay easier and more casual then how it started.
However I agree that TES games allowed ridiculous loopholes for resource management - for instance in Skyrim you could enchant legit for zero magicka cost spells, which is really broken. However normal TES games are not a good comparison since they are single player not an MMO where players need to be balanced between races/classes and PVP0 -
Draxius82✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
The pro solution is to learn to manage your resources and in the process become a better player. Its as simple as working out a rotation with heavy attack weaving involved in some specific moments. Heavy Attacking everything just leads to a boring playstyle. Using heavy attacks strategically makes the whole resource management thing more interesting.
I mean its not even frustrating to learn new things.
Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
Lol, you don't 'have to think' you just have to do heavy attacks. Sustain is actually easier now then before the patch once you adopt a heavy attack rotation, it's just slower and more mind numbingly boring.
How did you make it through the game the first time when CPs weren't a thing and you had to wear gear that dropped or from quest rewards? Was it mind numbingly boring then?
Right now, as a newer player, getting used to this combat system was weird. I love mages, always play them and always will. But the thought of using a staff (better than a wand, I would not be playing if I had to use a wand) to use along with my class skills bothered me quite a bit. Still does actually. But I find it is growing on me.
I never did like the TES games BECAUSE the combat was so utterly stupid, it detracted from everything else.0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Draxius82 ,
The financial motivation is what made me post.
I guess what it comes down to is trying to convince those dwelling on the 301st floor of the ivory tower that they may actually have made a bad monetary choice by their changes.
Of course, when people are that far up in the tower, it makes it hard to hear the people who are down below.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
The pro solution is to learn to manage your resources and in the process become a better player. Its as simple as working out a rotation with heavy attack weaving involved in some specific moments. Heavy Attacking everything just leads to a boring playstyle. Using heavy attacks strategically makes the whole resource management thing more interesting.
I mean its not even frustrating to learn new things.
Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
Lol, you don't 'have to think' you just have to do heavy attacks. Sustain is actually easier now then before the patch once you adopt a heavy attack rotation, it's just slower and more mind numbingly boring.
How did you make it through the game the first time when CPs weren't a thing and you had to wear gear that dropped or from quest rewards? Was it mind numbingly boring then?
Right now, as a newer player, getting used to this combat system was weird. I love mages, always play them and always will. But the thought of using a staff (better than a wand, I would not be playing if I had to use a wand) to use along with my class skills bothered me quite a bit. Still does actually. But I find it is growing on me.
I never did like the TES games BECAUSE the combat was so utterly stupid, it detracted from everything else.
Then why come to the MMO built on that series? If you didn't like it, why come here?0 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
The pro solution is to learn to manage your resources and in the process become a better player. Its as simple as working out a rotation with heavy attack weaving involved in some specific moments. Heavy Attacking everything just leads to a boring playstyle. Using heavy attacks strategically makes the whole resource management thing more interesting.
I mean its not even frustrating to learn new things.
Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
Lol, you don't 'have to think' you just have to do heavy attacks. Sustain is actually easier now then before the patch once you adopt a heavy attack rotation, it's just slower and more mind numbingly boring.
How did you make it through the game the first time when CPs weren't a thing and you had to wear gear that dropped or from quest rewards? Was it mind numbingly boring then?
Right now, as a newer player, getting used to this combat system was weird. I love mages, always play them and always will. But the thought of using a staff (better than a wand, I would not be playing if I had to use a wand) to use along with my class skills bothered me quite a bit. Still does actually. But I find it is growing on me.
I never did like the TES games BECAUSE the combat was so utterly stupid, it detracted from everything else.
When I started this game (beta) it was much much more difficult, so it was not boring trying to survive, plus everything was new, no meta was established in any area of the game, a lot of people were saying the game sucked, I didn't understand why since I loved it then and love it now.
The problem I have now is sitting there having to do heavy attacks like a noob, waiting those looooong seconds for the animation to finish IS boring. It also annoys because A)It's counterintuitive that a heavy attach would regenerate magicka or stamina rather than deplete it, and B)Because ZOS said they wanted to remove reduce cost CP in order to make combat more fast paced and they have done the opposite.
So right now I am doing something more fun aka working on my master fishing achievement. Yes, when fishing is more exciting then combat you know we're in a bad spot
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Draxius82✭✭✭Personofsecrets wrote: »@Draxius82 ,
The financial motivation is what made me post.
I guess what it comes down to is trying to convince those dwelling on the 301st floor of the ivory tower that they may actually have made a bad monetary choice by their changes.
Of course, when people are that far up in the tower, it makes it hard to hear the people who are down below.
I don't disagree with you at all. Like I said though, the onus of success or failure should be wholly with ZOS. It's their product to sell and our dollar decides if its ultimately worth it. For me, at this point in time, it is. The only game I've seen a dev team torpedo was SWG and Wildstar. I could be forgetting others though...
Edit: On the same token, I've been there through many games with threads much like these. You'll find these threads are a dime a dozen. What to truly look out for on the forums in the first page of general not changing for days (as in no new threads being created)Edited by Draxius82 on June 13, 2017 3:21AM0 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Never I made something better
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/337338/guide-how-to-sustain-come-morrowind/p1
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »And ESO started exactly like this... but now suddenly went "LOL, nope, play Dark Souls". It's unexpected, unwanted and honestly cannot be justified with "spirit of franchise". If I wanted to play Dark Souls, I would.
I disagree, as a continuous player from beta to now this game has gotten waaaay easier and more casual then how it started.
However I agree that TES games allowed ridiculous loopholes for resource management - for instance in Skyrim you could enchant legit for zero magicka cost spells, which is really broken. However normal TES games are not a good comparison since they are single player not an MMO where players need to be balanced between races/classes and PVP
This was kinda the point though.
Yeah, you got to the point where you were friggin unkillable virtually. But you earned that. You earned geting to that point, and at that point you had something to be proud of, or even just prep to turn up the difficulty and see how far you could go. That was just the charm of the games, and whether you loved it or hated it, it attracted a audience that loved it, and the potential customizeability with mods.
However, back in the day of ESO, things were mind-numbingly difficult. And it sucked. Wanna know why it sucked? Because I didn't come here for the ultra difficult gameplay and that's not what the system was designed for. This game was designed as a PVP game, and once that became abundantly clear, I left.
But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
However, compromises could have been made. The aforementioned difficulty rebalance with higher difficulties restricting resource management could still apply. If ZOS would ever impliment it that is.
(FYI, Slippery, this is not directed at you, more me using you to springboard my point off.)
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 13, 2017 3:27AM0 -
Personofsecrets✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Now everyone knows what the no stam regen while blocking change was like. My wish came true.Rest in Peace:
The Dragonknight
2014-2025
This commemoration is for the class that has constantly been plundered and dismantled by designers for no obvious reason while other classes continue to have coherent skill lines and feel both powerful and cool.1 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Pretty much everyone, exept when you get to the hardcore crowd, who have been pushing for the game to be altered to their liking and allways will, hence my advocacy for the difficulty rebalance. Hardcore guys want resource management? Fine, incorporate that into the difficulty rebalance. That'd please everyone.0 -
Draxius82✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's what keeps MMOs going.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's what keeps MMOs going.
Exept what he said isn't really applicable to a game change that affects everyone and only appeases one part of the playerbase. Threads like this are -proof- this isn't pleasing everyone, not even a portion of the people who want difficulty.
That's my problem with this update. It tosses the people who dont want this in with the people who dont. We need to be giving options, not restrictions.
But then, you'd hate for the difficulty to get rebalanced, wouldn't you? It'd mean you couldn't lawd your achievements over people anymore. "Keeping MMO's going" my eye, giving people options and lisening to your playerbase is what keeps MMO's going.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 13, 2017 3:39AM0 -
Draxius82✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's what keeps MMOs going.
Exept what he said isn't really applicable to a game change that affects everyone and only appeases one part of the playerbase.
But then, you'd hate for the difficulty to get rebalanced, wouldn't you? It'd mean you couldn't lawd your achievements over people anymore.
You can't use broad generalizations such as saying everyone. The forum is not representative of the overall population. I'm not trying to battle you at every corner, I know there are people that are frustrated. When game mechanics change like this, it is inevitable there will be unhappy people. Just remember, change isn't necessarily bad.
We don't have the mined data to make an accurate statement if these changes are good or bad for the overall longevity of the game yet. If ZOS caves in and they do revert the changes, it did hurt them, a lot. If not, it had the intended affect they wanted.
Again, super easy MMOs are not healthy for its longevity. (This is the point for you and some others where ZOS business decision seemed to have trumped your fun, and I am sorry it negatively impacted you and others to this degree)Edited by Draxius82 on June 13, 2017 3:44AM0 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »I don't think the Morrowind update made the game more interesting or skillful to play. Just more tedious.
i couldn't agree more.
1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's what keeps MMOs going.
Exept what he said isn't really applicable to a game change that affects everyone and only appeases one part of the playerbase.
But then, you'd hate for the difficulty to get rebalanced, wouldn't you? It'd mean you couldn't lawd your achievements over people anymore.
You can't use broad generalizations such as saying everyone. The forum is not representative of the overall population. I'm not trying to battle you at every corner, I know there are people that are frustrated. When game mechanics change like this, it is inevitable there will be unhappy people. Just remember, change isn't necessarily bad.
We don't have the mined data to make an accurate statement if these changes are good or bad for the overall longevity of the game yet. If ZOS caves in and they do revert the changes, it did hurt them, a lot. If not, it had the intended affect they wanted.
Again, super easy MMOs are not healthy for its longevity.
Even if you want to fall back on the 'we dont know' bit, are you seriously going to tell me that a difficulty rebalance with resource management emphasized is a bad thing? The people who are shouting the praises of this update are the people allways yelling about difficulty. If the shoe fits. Make two new difficulties, one with minor resource cost increases, one with major ones like this update, and let Veteran be what it was a couple updates back. I dont see any downsides to more options for those who want them.
Until that day comes, you -are- trying to fight me at every corner. Because your fun will allways come at the direct cost of mine. Your difficulty fix will allways come at the expense of people like me, who dont like it very much. Until we can have both, it's one or the other. With or against.
Edit: Your not sorry. Spare me faux platitudes. If you were sorry, you'd be advocating for a compromise, not playing apologist. Trying to fix the problem, instead of silencing the people attempting to.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 13, 2017 3:54AM0 -
DemonDruaga✭✭✭✭On magicka i just do one full ligthning heavy every rotation and i'm doing good.
One could even go with witchmother and skoria(to compensate the life) and it will work out just fine.
I am sure for stam there are similar ways to trade a small chunk of dps to regain good sustain.
-> going oom is always the bigger loss anyways
Ardor // Dunkelsicht // Pakt0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's poor customer service to keep changing your product every few months...we need small changes and incremental patches not huge patches every 4-6 months that just break everything.
However we're 3 years in doubtful things change at this pointRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
Draxius82✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's what keeps MMOs going.
Exept what he said isn't really applicable to a game change that affects everyone and only appeases one part of the playerbase.
But then, you'd hate for the difficulty to get rebalanced, wouldn't you? It'd mean you couldn't lawd your achievements over people anymore.
You can't use broad generalizations such as saying everyone. The forum is not representative of the overall population. I'm not trying to battle you at every corner, I know there are people that are frustrated. When game mechanics change like this, it is inevitable there will be unhappy people. Just remember, change isn't necessarily bad.
We don't have the mined data to make an accurate statement if these changes are good or bad for the overall longevity of the game yet. If ZOS caves in and they do revert the changes, it did hurt them, a lot. If not, it had the intended affect they wanted.
Again, super easy MMOs are not healthy for its longevity.
Even if you want to fall back on the 'we dont know' bit, are you seriously going to tell me that a difficulty rebalance with resource management emphasized is a bad thing?
Until that day comes, you -are- trying to fight me at every corner. Because your fun will allways come at the direct cost of mine. Your difficulty fix will allways come at the expense of people like me, who dont like it very much. Until we can have both, it's one or the other. With or against.
You're making this about me and you personally when it's not. The reality of it is, with change a company will lose people and gain people. ZOS is trying to make a profit first and that can't be done with a shoddy product. Time will tell though if they're on the right course.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »S1ipperyJim wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »But when they lowered the difficulty and put in the undaunted stuff, it was fun again. Why was it fun? Because for me, fun was the content. Not the difficulty.
If difficulty is what gets you off, if frustration is what you equate with fun, the Elder Scrolls series, MMO or single player format, is not a game you belong in. Period.
Ah, but a certain level of difficulty is required in order to get maximum satisfaction from a game.
Which is an essential part of game theory (a topic I'm quite enthusiastic about lol). You need a balance between player skill vs game difficulty to achieve a psychological 'flow state' which is essentially the state of maximum enjoyment (see link if interested).
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/166972/cognitive_flow_the_psychology_of_.php
The problem is this balance differs between players at different parts of their in game journey, fortunately ESO caters pretty well for most levels of skill in allowing you to select the amount of challenge and difficulty you want to experience (if any).
Couldn't have said it better myself. That's what keeps MMOs going.
Exept what he said isn't really applicable to a game change that affects everyone and only appeases one part of the playerbase.
But then, you'd hate for the difficulty to get rebalanced, wouldn't you? It'd mean you couldn't lawd your achievements over people anymore.
You can't use broad generalizations such as saying everyone. The forum is not representative of the overall population. I'm not trying to battle you at every corner, I know there are people that are frustrated. When game mechanics change like this, it is inevitable there will be unhappy people. Just remember, change isn't necessarily bad.
We don't have the mined data to make an accurate statement if these changes are good or bad for the overall longevity of the game yet. If ZOS caves in and they do revert the changes, it did hurt them, a lot. If not, it had the intended affect they wanted.
Again, super easy MMOs are not healthy for its longevity.
Even if you want to fall back on the 'we dont know' bit, are you seriously going to tell me that a difficulty rebalance with resource management emphasized is a bad thing?
Until that day comes, you -are- trying to fight me at every corner. Because your fun will allways come at the direct cost of mine. Your difficulty fix will allways come at the expense of people like me, who dont like it very much. Until we can have both, it's one or the other. With or against.
You're making this about me and you personally when it's not. The reality of it is, with change a company will lose people and gain people. ZOS is trying to make a profit first and that can't be done with a shoddy product. Time will tell though if they're on the right course.
Given you keep cutting out most of the edits, after a point where an immediate reply isn't plausable, forgive me if I dont think your keen on representing me or taking me seriously.
Reguardless, this one I'll repeat for you: Until such a time as multiple difficulties with resource management gameplay added to them is released, your fun, will allways come at the expense of mine. There for, it is with, or against. And that. Isn't. Changing.0 -
Draxius82✭✭✭@Doctordarkspawn ,
You mistake me as an apologist when I'm actually a realist. I've already said that at no point should a business make sweeping changes for the sake of some of their customers. When I do see it, to me, I see a lack of leadership within the company. I will however advocate for the developers to take quality of life changes from the community.
As for my edits that seem to have riled you up, I made them immediately after I posted without having read anything else. Sorry about that. You should see what I delete compared to what I post. It's not negative, I just debate what I'm currently typing before I post it. The edits reflect that.
In this thread, the people that have "adapted" to what ZOS wanted claim that it isn't fun. I get that. Just like for me, Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind had such terrible combat I couldn't get past it. I didn't decry those enjoying it or make demands from the developers. It wasn't fun and I left.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Draxius82
I have said what I needed to say. I will apologize for the edits thing, it just -irks- me when I feel like someone is quote mining or puting words in my mouth.
Everything else, stands on it's own.0
