It would be useful to increase both respective max stat pools since hybrids with 4000 spell and weapon damage but only 16k of max stamina and max magicka still suck. Nobody looks at shacklebreaker and says hey that looks awesome for hybrids because it has weapon and spell damage. The problem with hybrid character building is that even when you pump up both spell and weapon damage your still stuck with gimped max stamina and/or max magicka, making them hard to make viable.

They are getting closer to making hybrids an actual reality but still a long way to go. Disregarding crit chance and resource regen you would need, in addition to high enough spell damage and weapon damage, max stat pools at or above 30k each for both max stamina and max magicka. Never mind still needing 16-18k health worked in as well. If you could accomplish that you'd have an awesome and viable hybrid build that might be able to compete with current optimized (either stam or mag-based) dps builds. I kind of think making that a reality though would cause a whole host of new problems. Could you imagine being able to run a magicka sorcerer with 40-45k max mag and 25k stamina or vice versa for a stamina dps? A stamina nightblade with 35-40k stam and 20-25k magicka. Ridiculousness ensues.

I don't know. Maybe one day hybrids will be a viable end game option.

OdinForge wrote: »

#NeverForget

https://youtu.be/kiAZahhrVbM?t=3m45s

Indeed!

Crazy to think there are so few of us still around that remember eh @OdinForge

OdinForge wrote: »

#NeverForget

https://youtu.be/kiAZahhrVbM?t=3m45s

Were their proc sets bugged?

xD

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

Synozeer wrote: »

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

You could run sets that give both weapon and spell power, like Clever Alchemist, Molag Kena, Way of Air, Shacklebreaker, etc. Your jewelry enchants might be the only issue here, but that can be used for regen, cost reduction, or just topping off weapon or spell power (if you need one to be higher than the other).

How do you beat 174x3+32% (20% brutality + medium armor) = 689 wep and spell power from 4 slots (pelinal 5 piece + jewelry). Getting that separate we'd need 689x2=1378 from gear. That's 6+ slots. Then you'd need to run both major sorcery and major brutality instead of just brutality. It's too bad but the math is just not there to support non pelinal.

Vencenzo wrote: »

Synozeer wrote: »

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

You could run sets that give both weapon and spell power, like Clever Alchemist, Molag Kena, Way of Air, Shacklebreaker, etc. Your jewelry enchants might be the only issue here, but that can be used for regen, cost reduction, or just topping off weapon or spell power (if you need one to be higher than the other).

How do you beat 174x3+32% (20% brutality + medium armor) = 689 wep and spell power from 4 slots (pelinal 5 piece + jewelry). Getting that separate we'd need 689x2=1378 from gear. That's 6+ slots. Then you'd need to run both major sorcery and major brutality instead of just brutality. It's too bad but the math is just not there to support non pelinal.

Some classes would be better than others for going hybrid. Warden's stamina netch morph gives major brutality and sorcery, and Nightblade and Dragonknight also have spells that give both too.

I haven't done the math, just theorizing off the top of my head.

Clever Alchemist alone gives 782 (pre-buff) spell and weapon damage (but obviously in bursts and not full time), and you can run the 5th piece on the back bar, theoretically letting you run 5/5/2 with something like 2h/bow or staff/staff. That in itself makes up the cost of the jewelry enchants and still allows you to run another 5 piece set and a 2 piece.

Then Way of Air for another 344 spell/weapon damage (too bad Way of Air loses a slot with that sneak detection trait), wear medium which boosts your weapon damage. You can run a 1 piece Molag Kena for 129 more in both, a 1 piece magicka regen for the other slot (or one that gives stamina and another that gives magicka). On jewelry run a spell damage enchant, and the other two you could run magicka regen, more damage, etc.

Mundus/food/drink can be whatever you're building towards. And of course a spell/weapon damage weapon enchantment (which any hybrid can use to equal effect). The problem of course is your stam/magicka pools. Be a Dark Elf to get that bonus in both, run prismatic glyphs.

I haven't gone through the sets to look for other weapon/spell damage ones that might work, but options are probably very limited.

I am currently running a hybrid dual wield/ frost staff warden using 5 piece shacklebreaker, 4/3 piece assassin's guile, and leaching vengeance 3 piece jewelry. 5 medium, 2 light. 30k stam and magicka. 22k health. 2k weapon and spell damage. I am playing a nord but with a dunmer stam and magicka pools would be higher. Great sustain and decent damage.

Erock25 wrote: »

@Vencenzo Have you watched the linked JD video? His shacklebreaker/imperial physique (4 piece) looks interesting. It doesn't use Pelinal and you have about 36k magicka and 30k stamina with around 19k HP (before cyrodiil buff). Weapon and spell dmg values aren't bad either. I'm heavily considering using this for a hybrid sorc, that or his necropotence variant.

Decent dmg shield + Haunting Curse + Crystal Frag Proc + activate Eye of the Storm + Crit Charge + Wrecking Blow into Executioner. DMG shields on top of medium armor roll dodges? I'm very aroused.

Just watched that all the way. I do enjoy the creativity of the build. Warden may be the exception to pelinal with necropentence. I'm on the fence with sorc. If I went imperial for hybrid I'd probably make a 5piece build for IC.

Synozeer wrote: »

Some classes would be better than others for going hybrid. Warden's stamina netch morph gives major brutality and sorcery, and Nightblade and Dragonknight also have spells that give both too.

Haven't messed with warden hybrid concepts yet, been meaning to. Most of them are templars so it's tricky to get the sorcery/brutality. NB forces me into melee for the dual buff and I'd rather go ranged dots on NB if hybrid. With a larger skill loadout optional I tend to take advantage of either all thaumaturge or master at arms by going pure DoT or Direct on the build. That's the only way I feel like I have enough burst damage for good players usually.

For now my Hybrid PoTL temp uses pelinal, trainee, chudan with tri drink. Not enough base stats to have a decent burst with PoTL. With shacklebreaker's regen I could use tristat food and then have enough hp to sub chudan for 1 piece kena/veli for extra wep power. Lose some regen gain lots of base damage.

It's exciting to see there's still people theorycrafting on hybrids. I look forward to potential warden builds.

My problem with Kena and Alch is I can't afford the downtime or extra cost. I'd be more willing to try that on a sorc but I fear it would not sustain even with dark deal. Potentially decent burst, interesting wp/sp stats.

Need a (prismatic) jewlery enchantment option

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

Not necesarily

Edit: You can build towards raw dmg (brutality, vulnerability), with 2.5k spell and weapon dmg and get similar numbers to pelinals. Problem? You have to resingn max pools or regen, but that's how hybrids work even with pelinals.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

Not necesarily

Edit: You can build towards raw dmg (brutality, vulnerability), with 2.5k spell and weapon dmg and get similar numbers to pelinals. Problem? You have to resingn max pools or regen, but that's how hybrids work even with pelinals.

And is really the hardest thing to solve. Any set that will help a hybrid will help a non hybrid more.

Yup. For a Hybrid it is almost mandatory to go heavy, since it is the best way to recover both pools and attain certain mitigation and health (the weakest pool). Then you need to look for a set tha boost either max pool, regen or spell/wpn dmg (raw dmg).

That decision in turn conditionates the way you play. You can't spam skills as non hybrids. Depending on your weapon, you have to weave one of the resources.

With a sorc it's easier to go hybrid with a bow, weaving mage wrath and throwing an eventual curse/frag proc. With a mDK it is easier to go hybrid with 2H, weaving whip. I suppose that for a stamplar, you could go with a resto staff.

But always the non hybrid will do better in theory, unless you know your build and have practiced a lot...

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

Not necesarily

Edit: You can build towards raw dmg (brutality, vulnerability), with 2.5k spell and weapon dmg and get similar numbers to pelinals. Problem? You have to resingn max pools or regen, but that's how hybrids work even with pelinals.

And is really the hardest thing to solve. Any set that will help a hybrid will help a non hybrid more.

Yup. For a Hybrid it is almost mandatory to go heavy, since it is the best way to recover both pools and attain certain mitigation and health (the weakest pool). Then you need to look for a set tha boost either max pool, regen or spell/wpn dmg (raw dmg).

That decision in turn conditionates the way you play. You can't spam skills as non hybrids. Depending on your weapon, you have to weave one of the resources.

With a sorc it's easier to go hybrid with a bow, weaving mage wrath and throwing an eventual curse/frag proc. With a mDK it is easier to go hybrid with 2H, weaving whip. I suppose that for a stamplar, you could go with a resto staff.

But always the non hybrid will do better in theory, unless you know your build and have practiced a lot...

Sorc and bow? You'd pair the only weapon without a spammable with the only class without a spammable?

I keep thinking of turning my Stamsorc into a hybrid, but I honestly don't know which way to go with it yet.. It feels like I need to come up with a combo of abilities that I want to base it on first..

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

Not necesarily

Edit: You can build towards raw dmg (brutality, vulnerability), with 2.5k spell and weapon dmg and get similar numbers to pelinals. Problem? You have to resingn max pools or regen, but that's how hybrids work even with pelinals.

And is really the hardest thing to solve. Any set that will help a hybrid will help a non hybrid more.

Yup. For a Hybrid it is almost mandatory to go heavy, since it is the best way to recover both pools and attain certain mitigation and health (the weakest pool). Then you need to look for a set tha boost either max pool, regen or spell/wpn dmg (raw dmg).

That decision in turn conditionates the way you play. You can't spam skills as non hybrids. Depending on your weapon, you have to weave one of the resources.

With a sorc it's easier to go hybrid with a bow, weaving mage wrath and throwing an eventual curse/frag proc. With a mDK it is easier to go hybrid with 2H, weaving whip. I suppose that for a stamplar, you could go with a resto staff.

But always the non hybrid will do better in theory, unless you know your build and have practiced a lot...

I played a lot as an hybrid sorc in PvE and PvP in the past. With 7 prismatic glyphs, 1 heavy on no attirbute points or racial bonus to health you may already sit around 20-22k health in PvE. But I agree on the resource part. However, the bow hybrid sorc seems a bit odd. I have to think this through.

Biro123 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Vencenzo wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Would black rose and shacklebreaker be a good basis for a hybrid?

Pelinal is absolutely required for hybrid to work atm. Assuming you want to use both mag and stam damage abilities. There would have to be jewelry glyphs that gave both sp/wp on one slot for this not to be the case.

Not necesarily

Edit: You can build towards raw dmg (brutality, vulnerability), with 2.5k spell and weapon dmg and get similar numbers to pelinals. Problem? You have to resingn max pools or regen, but that's how hybrids work even with pelinals.

And is really the hardest thing to solve. Any set that will help a hybrid will help a non hybrid more.

Yup. For a Hybrid it is almost mandatory to go heavy, since it is the best way to recover both pools and attain certain mitigation and health (the weakest pool). Then you need to look for a set tha boost either max pool, regen or spell/wpn dmg (raw dmg).

That decision in turn conditionates the way you play. You can't spam skills as non hybrids. Depending on your weapon, you have to weave one of the resources.

With a sorc it's easier to go hybrid with a bow, weaving mage wrath and throwing an eventual curse/frag proc. With a mDK it is easier to go hybrid with 2H, weaving whip. I suppose that for a stamplar, you could go with a resto staff.

But always the non hybrid will do better in theory, unless you know your build and have practiced a lot...

Sorc and bow? You'd pair the only weapon without a spammable with the only class without a spammable?

I keep thinking of turning my Stamsorc into a hybrid, but I honestly don't know which way to go with it yet.. It feels like I need to come up with a combo of abilities that I want to base it on first..

It's been a bit since I last played my hybrid sorc but can you still hold back a hard casted frag to pair it with crit rush or dizzying/ wrecking?

Haven't tested frag hold since update, so dunno bout that yet.

Um bow sorc, I had one before, paired with destro staff.

It only killed via proc. Red Mountain and Skoria poison injection, that other poison bow move, destro reach, blockade, means 40% chance per sec to proc skoria, and 50% chance per sec to proc mountain. Paired with EH, has every snare and root and CC in game.

Just streak, conversion, roll Dodge and keep the dots up. Eventually the procs kill