I'm here to defend Morrowind as an expansion and say that ESO+ is useless

GabiAlex · June 2017

Hello! I'm here with an opinion contradictory to most of yours because I'm a brainwashed *** so be sure to prepare your forks and torches before I'm done. You can find me dwelling in my mother's basement surrounded by anime posters.

Why is ESO+ useless?

But I'm can't live without my crafting bag and also I have free access to all DLC except Morrowind because ZoS so evil, also free crowns each month, you may say. I say that you can't do a bit of inventory management and you are too comfortable. I say that you fail to see the bigger picture financially speaking. I used to have ESO+ just for two months and the only advantage I had was the crafting bag. The problem is that I played a lot of MMOs before and in some of them your inventory was quite restricted, but I learned how to manage it and make the inventory space less of a problem.It isn't hard, you only need to make the difference between junk and treasure. Also you have 8 character slots, in my case I need only three characters (a DD, a Tank and a Healer), the rest are to store stuff that I may need later. One of them is dedicated for those disguises you find on certain quests because I really love to collect them. I'm doing a lot of gathering and crafting, but still manage to have enough space on my inventory (my main has only 110 inventory spaces) because I sort everything. What I need right now is going to bank, what I keep for later is going on my alts.

Now about the DLC and the "free crowns". You don't have those for free because you are paying for them and on a long term you are paying more on ESO+ than you will pay to unlock each DLC and some cosmetics. With the money spend on 3 months worth of subscription you can unlock all 5 DLC permanently and don't lose your access to them the moment your ESO+ expired and because of unexpected financial issues you can't renew it. Choosing to unlock my DLC helped me to save a lot of money for other stuff or for future content.

They called Morrowind an expansion to milk more money from us!

Is true that ZoS bend their promise of delivering access to each DLC (this therm is used very wrong here in my opinion) with ESO+, but Morrowind is much bigger that it seems. Those that got the expansion, have you analyzed the size of it? I'm speaking here about the amount of new assets introduced with it, including scripts, 3D models, textures, sprites, animations, sounds and voice acting. Do you have any idea how much time and money those take to produce? A complex mesh can't be done in half hour. The animations take more time than you think. Codding isn't something that everyone can do or something that can be done by writing a simple sentence. Sounds and voice acting are very expensive. Including Morrowind in ESO+ will result in a lot of money lost, even bankruptcy because the subscribers can't cover the costs of production.

If you compare Morrowind with Orsinium you can see an increase in quality. The voice acting in Morrowind is a lot better than what used to be. They took more time with the story writing and the quest lines in Morrowind are very long. There are a lot more new mobs introduced with Morrowind than in other DLC, especially Dwarven constructs, not to speak about NPC that looks very unique compared to other zones. With the new expansion a new trial was introduced, new PvP mode, a new class with new skill effects and the possibility to unlock new cosmetics. The amount of resources spend for Morrowind was big and to be honest I want to see same quality in future expansions too. For example, Alinor is as much of an alien place as Vvardenfell is, do not expect to see it created from recycled assets and be sold as a DLC because if they are going to make it right, they will have to spend as much resources into it as they spend in Morrowind, so be prepared. Is up to you to understand that some things can't be sold too cheap because of productions costs.

Artanis · June 2017

I agree with what you are saying, but, on a personal level, I think Morrowwind should still be a $40 DLC that should be included in ESO+... I'm not complaining about the pricing, but separate expansion on top of all other DLC release is a little frustrating.

Just imagine being subscribed to Netflix and it's charging $10 pay-per-view for a newly released high-budget series. You'd feel bad even if that particular show was worth that much money.

Feanor · June 2017

Good luck. It's a tall order.

TheDuck · June 2017

Artanis wrote: »

Just imagine being subscribed to Netflix and it's charging $10 pay-per-view for a newly released high-budget series. You'd feel bad even if that particular show was worth that much money.

Nexflix isnt a game developer, and your argument / comparison is apples to oranges.

Stop whining about the cost of MW. [snip] ..... better come to terms with that fact.

[Edit for baiting]

stewhead2ub17_ESO · June 2017

@GabiAlex I realize this is your opinion but I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish with this post? Your reasoning here is inapplicable to someone like me and very presumptive. You wrote:
"It isn't hard, you only need to make the difference between junk and treasure. Also you have 8 character slots, in my case I need only three characters (a DD, a Tank and a Healer), the rest are to store stuff that I may need later."
One man's junk is another man's treasure. What you think is valuable may be inconsequential to me and vice versa. As for the char slots, as you say YOU "need only three characters". Well that's how you like to play. I'm enjoying 13 different characters currently, all for a variety of reasons, i.e. different skill lines, races, and RP.
Further, I've subbed since launch. I like to support the products I thoroughly enjoy, and am fortunate enough financially, to do so. The crafting bag is just the sweet sweet icing on the cake. I also enjoy my renewed allotment of crowns and the other perks I get as a subscriber. Again, to each his own. Enjoy your stay in Tamriel.

Dracindo · June 2017

I can understand €40 for the Morrowind DLC, because it's new and all, and people who bought it clearly didn't feel like waiting for the price reduction.
I bought eso for a high price when it came out, but now it's available for change (figuratively speaking). The Morrowind DLC will most likely be the same, except that it won't be included into the ESO+ pack, and I can understand why. ESO+ members already had lots of benefits, and recently got even more. And no doubt they'll still get more. So I find it good that there is something that even they have to pay extra for.

But still, for the content it provides, Morrowind is a big DLC, but not big enough to be called an expansion. In an expansion, I would've expected to see at least 3 new zones, along with the Warden class.

The_Lex · June 2017

After the Bethesda conference, the IGN panel were being very critical on ESO's decision to make chapters paid content independent of ESO +.

Sylosi · June 2017

TheDuck wrote: »

Nexflix isnt a game developer, and your argument / comparison is apples to oranges.

His analogy is fine, that it isn't a game developer is irrelevant, that is rather the point of an analogy...

drakhan2002_ESO · June 2017

@GabiAlex

You have your opinion and it's valid for you. While I respect how you feel, I do not agree. ESO+ for me is appropriate for my play style (I do not like "inventory management"). Moreover, I have 2 accounts and 20 characters to manage. I simply do not have the interest or energy to toon hop just to manage my inventory on an banker alt. I remember that inventory management was pain...even back in the original beta and how hard it was to get more bag/bank space.

To me, ESO+ with the crafting bag and now double bank slots...is awesome.

altemriel · June 2017

GabiAlex wrote: »

Hello! I'm here with an opinion contradictory to most of yours because I'm a brainwashed *** so be sure to prepare your forks and torches before I'm done. You can find me dwelling in my mother's basement surrounded by anime posters.

Why is ESO+ useless?

But I'm can't live without my crafting bag and also I have free access to all DLC except Morrowind because ZoS so evil, also free crowns each month, you may say. I say that you can't do a bit of inventory management and you are too comfortable. I say that you fail to see the bigger picture financially speaking. I used to have ESO+ just for two months and the only advantage I had was the crafting bag. The problem is that I played a lot of MMOs before and in some of them your inventory was quite restricted, but I learned how to manage it and make the inventory space less of a problem.It isn't hard, you only need to make the difference between junk and treasure. Also you have 8 character slots, in my case I need only three characters (a DD, a Tank and a Healer), the rest are to store stuff that I may need later. One of them is dedicated for those disguises you find on certain quests because I really love to collect them. I'm doing a lot of gathering and crafting, but still manage to have enough space on my inventory (my main has only 110 inventory spaces) because I sort everything. What I need right now is going to bank, what I keep for later is going on my alts.

Now about the DLC and the "free crowns". You don't have those for free because you are paying for them and on a long term you are paying more on ESO+ than you will pay to unlock each DLC and some cosmetics. With the money spend on 3 months worth of subscription you can unlock all 5 DLC permanently and don't lose your access to them the moment your ESO+ expired and because of unexpected financial issues you can't renew it. Choosing to unlock my DLC helped me to save a lot of money for other stuff or for future content.

They called Morrowind an expansion to milk more money from us!

Is true that ZoS bend their promise of delivering access to each DLC (this therm is used very wrong here in my opinion) with ESO+, but Morrowind is much bigger that it seems. Those that got the expansion, have you analyzed the size of it? I'm speaking here about the amount of new assets introduced with it, including scripts, 3D models, textures, sprites, animations, sounds and voice acting. Do you have any idea how much time and money those take to produce? A complex mesh can't be done in half hour. The animations take more time than you think. Codding isn't something that everyone can do or something that can be done by writing a simple sentence. Sounds and voice acting are very expensive. Including Morrowind in ESO+ will result in a lot of money lost, even bankruptcy because the subscribers can't cover the costs of production.

If you compare Morrowind with Orsinium you can see an increase in quality. The voice acting in Morrowind is a lot better than what used to be. They took more time with the story writing and the quest lines in Morrowind are very long. There are a lot more new mobs introduced with Morrowind than in other DLC, especially Dwarven constructs, not to speak about NPC that looks very unique compared to other zones. With the new expansion a new trial was introduced, new PvP mode, a new class with new skill effects and the possibility to unlock new cosmetics. The amount of resources spend for Morrowind was big and to be honest I want to see same quality in future expansions too. For example, Alinor is as much of an alien place as Vvardenfell is, do not expect to see it created from recycled assets and be sold as a DLC because if they are going to make it right, they will have to spend as much resources into it as they spend in Morrowind, so be prepared. Is up to you to understand that some things can't be sold too cheap because of productions costs.

ZOS has annouced a new business model earlier already:

one quarter a dungeon DLC
another quarter new map region content DLC
another quarter an expansion like Morrowind

Rawreak Rovyre · June 2017

The number of people I see here complaining/whining about a $15 subscription fee... Christ. Get your priorities in check.

[minor edit for baiting]

Haenk · June 2017

I disagree.
As a crafter, thief and "loot everything"-person, I'm low on inventory space all the time. No ESO+ would seriously stop me from playing the way I want to. The monthly fee is quite OK with me - and since you can play hundreds of hours without subscription, a "bonus deal" for subcribers is fair.
Morrowind is almost done (minus Battlegrounds minus fishing), I don't think it has a lot more content than previous DLCs. At least not worth the amount currently charged. It should have been included in normal ESO+ or obtainable as a DLC.
(Though I have to admit I ordered the physical collectors edition - but this a matter of principle...)

BlackSparrow · June 2017

That's your opinion. I don't find ESO+ useless at all. On top of the inventory management perks (making mule alts would take space away from roleplay alts, and having the Crafting Bag means I never have to worry about not having the materials I need). On top of that, I adore the double furnishing limit and the unlimited costume dying.

And technically, the sub price pays for the Crowns. It's everything else that's free.

But yeah, if it doesn't float your boat, no need to sub. To each their own. *shrug*

BloodWolfe · June 2017

To all the [snip], every MMO has paid expansions, every MMO when a new class (or race) is released it's part of an expansion; it's standard, get used to it!

MMO's used to charge a monthly fee and you still had to buy all additional content so one expansion comes out and everyone goes [snip]? Give me a break, self-entitled brats want everything for free these days.

I don't agree with a lot of ZOS' moves (6000 crown limited time motifs, 4000-4500 crown limited time mounts, mundus stones for housing at 4000 crowns each and ONLY available via the crown store, etc...) but come on. All MMO's release expansions and charge about this same price range for it. I'll agree the map is a bit smaller than an expansion but it has a new class and other additions so $40 isn't a big deal.

As for ESO+ and whether it's worth the cost or "useless" well let's start with this; it gives you the same amount back in crowns anyway (whereas others like EQ2 for example give you 500 SC ($5) worth of store funds) so at least ZOS gives us $15 worth of crowns for our $15 as well as the progression bonuses (not much but hey every little bit helps), the crafting bag, double bank space, housing item limit increase and access to DLC.

For a monthly subscription, the bonuses are better than most other MMO's at this point so calm yourselves, take a deep breath and stop thinking you deserve everything for free!

[Edit for some minor baiting and bypassing profanity filter]

kagorsa · June 2017

First of all, without paying customers there are no servers. Have you seen the size of the super servers, and the costs involved keeping them running ?.

Also the amount of currency spent on making morrowind must be really high.

So I don't mind paying a subscription for ESO because it's a great game

.

Another thing is bethesda is a company which is out to make profit, not just for itself but also for its share holders like all other large companies.

ZOS_Ragnar · June 2017

We have removed some posts that were not adding to the discussion.

JKorr · June 2017

Sorry; I don't agree with your opinion.

This is my current hobby. I have no issues with paying to avoid aggravation at managing my inventory. I'm a crafter in 4 guilds; I need mats of all levels, all the tempers, for all the professions. While I have, as has everyone else who's been here for a long period of time, managed to do the inventory shuffle before the crafting bag existed, I am, personal opinion, ecstatically happy that I no longer have to do that. This game is actually one of the cheapest hobbies I've taken up.

Two accounts, 20 characters and counting. I'm one of the "old geezers" who played pen and paper D&D. My characters are individual, different backstory, different attitudes, different mindset when playing, even though I don't role-play. Your three generic characters suit your way of playing. I kind of got past that with the arcade/console games where you were The Hero, no customization available. I don't think I would have bothered with this game if I was restricted to just the holy stereotypes.

I cheerfully preordered Morrowind. I don't regret that either. The addition is worth paying for, for me, in my opinion. To others, of course, it isn't. I'm having a ball finding information and filling in the blanks in the history I originally found in Bethesda's single player Morrowind.

Sweetpea704 · June 2017

The basic model of ESO gives some folks the ability to play for free after the original purchase, folks that don't have the means to keep putting money into the game. Some of these folks are kids. Some of these folks are game hoppers, who will only play this game for a few months and then may come back for a bit every time there is an update.

Then, you have folks that love everything about this game. That are probably older, have a good income, and have made ESO their hobby. They buy the mounts and the costumes when they like them. They are ESO subscribers because they want to support the game and keep them solvent enough to keep making new content. Whether you know it or not, you need the subscribers so that you can have the folks that don't subscribe.

I do love my craft bag. I do love my new bank space. If there were only 5 people left on the server, I would be one of those people. I have no interest in other games. I've made great friends though this game. I support things that I like. You get to benefit from that as a nonsubscriber. ZOS gets to grow as a company.

DjMuscleboy02 · June 2017

I have 13 characters, all but one (a warden that's level 4) have beaten vMol and all Craglorn trials. I would absolutely buy eso plus for just the bank space and bag alone. Using other characters as mules isn't an option. The DLCs are just a bonus, as are the crowns. 40$ for Morrowind seemed a bit much for the content it provides, which is basically the same if not less than other DLCs (minus a new class.)

ZoM_Head · June 2017

GabiAlex wrote: »

Hello! I'm here with an opinion contradictory to most of yours because I'm a brainwashed *** so be sure to prepare your forks and torches before I'm done. You can find me dwelling in my mother's basement surrounded by anime posters.

Why is ESO+ useless?

But I'm can't live without my crafting bag and also I have free access to all DLC except Morrowind because ZoS so evil, also free crowns each month, you may say. I say that you can't do a bit of inventory management and you are too comfortable. I say that you fail to see the bigger picture financially speaking. I used to have ESO+ just for two months and the only advantage I had was the crafting bag. The problem is that I played a lot of MMOs before and in some of them your inventory was quite restricted, but I learned how to manage it and make the inventory space less of a problem.It isn't hard, you only need to make the difference between junk and treasure. Also you have 8 character slots, in my case I need only three characters (a DD, a Tank and a Healer), the rest are to store stuff that I may need later. One of them is dedicated for those disguises you find on certain quests because I really love to collect them. I'm doing a lot of gathering and crafting, but still manage to have enough space on my inventory (my main has only 110 inventory spaces) because I sort everything. What I need right now is going to bank, what I keep for later is going on my alts.

Now about the DLC and the "free crowns". You don't have those for free because you are paying for them and on a long term you are paying more on ESO+ than you will pay to unlock each DLC and some cosmetics. With the money spend on 3 months worth of subscription you can unlock all 5 DLC permanently and don't lose your access to them the moment your ESO+ expired and because of unexpected financial issues you can't renew it. Choosing to unlock my DLC helped me to save a lot of money for other stuff or for future content.

They called Morrowind an expansion to milk more money from us!

Is true that ZoS bend their promise of delivering access to each DLC (this therm is used very wrong here in my opinion) with ESO+, but Morrowind is much bigger that it seems. Those that got the expansion, have you analyzed the size of it? I'm speaking here about the amount of new assets introduced with it, including scripts, 3D models, textures, sprites, animations, sounds and voice acting. Do you have any idea how much time and money those take to produce? A complex mesh can't be done in half hour. The animations take more time than you think. Codding isn't something that everyone can do or something that can be done by writing a simple sentence. Sounds and voice acting are very expensive. Including Morrowind in ESO+ will result in a lot of money lost, even bankruptcy because the subscribers can't cover the costs of production.

If you compare Morrowind with Orsinium you can see an increase in quality. The voice acting in Morrowind is a lot better than what used to be. They took more time with the story writing and the quest lines in Morrowind are very long. There are a lot more new mobs introduced with Morrowind than in other DLC, especially Dwarven constructs, not to speak about NPC that looks very unique compared to other zones. With the new expansion a new trial was introduced, new PvP mode, a new class with new skill effects and the possibility to unlock new cosmetics. The amount of resources spend for Morrowind was big and to be honest I want to see same quality in future expansions too. For example, Alinor is as much of an alien place as Vvardenfell is, do not expect to see it created from recycled assets and be sold as a DLC because if they are going to make it right, they will have to spend as much resources into it as they spend in Morrowind, so be prepared. Is up to you to understand that some things can't be sold too cheap because of productions costs.

I support what you are saying but:

- Most NPCS and monsters use the exact same animation on certain mechanics in base game, shows a lot of copied and pasted animations here and there, while keeping a lot of base game bugged out ones (certain npcs and monster using shield charge is still bugged for example). So id rather have Zenimax actually spend time fixing old base animations, than use the same ones on new monsters carrying over the exact same bugs.

- New trail was completed in less than 2 hours in veteran mode after early access. I mean seriously, Sanctum Ophidia took us 5 months to complete and another 2 months for hard mode (no normal mode back in the day). MOL took us 5 months to complete everything in there. So there you have two DLCs that overlapped new content. Here we get HOF and 2 hours later its done in vet mode.

- New PvP mode has not been working correctly since early access till today.

Those three points are basically the same copy and paste *** they have been doing since Imperial City. If you just take a moment and step back and look what what is going on, i barely see any actual work going on. Work, as in work, care and so on. Everything feels super rushed and painted over from animations copied and bugged out, to class balances and changes and end game content.

I cancelled my ESO+ a few weeks ago and got morrowind because of two friends that kept bugging me about it. Today, as of now, i wish i didnt. Sure it is a new zone, but that is it. Actual content, content that they worked hard on, is not present. New quests are not new content, neither is fishing, collecting skyshards etc (those are rinse and repeat bs). What are you doing to do till the next "DLC" comes out??

Zenimax made it clear, they do not for one moment give a *** about their dedicated long term fans, period. Their sole goal is to attract as many new players are possible, throw a *** ton of new paint left and right and leave all the previous issues as they are and add some more. I wish i could cancel the morrowind purchase honestly.

Tan9oSuccka · June 2017

I have mixed feelings on Morrowind. While nostalgia, landscape etc is excellent, the size and scope is a bit larger than Orsinium. I'm kind of bummed out this wasn't a DLC.

On the other hand, a couple movie tickets and a pop will run you about the same amount in cost. Zenimax is not a charity, I get it.

My bigger issue with the game is the sustain and balance changes. I think they're balancing based on a small percentage of the player base.

AhPook_Is_Here · June 2017

@GabiAlex I agree with a lot of what you said, I like to play the game and don't really like to manage inventory, so I just usually don't pick anything up but the gold coins and purple items i can break for materials. For crafting you just need the base materials, tempers, and trait gems. Style mats aren't important as you will put a costume over it anyway, if you even bother to use crafted gear. Alchemy provisioning and enchanting are the hogs but you can get rid of a lot of non-essentials and anything you can just buy off a vendor.

Playing since 2015, I have millions of gold, and millions of ap so there isn't much point in picking stuff up anymore for me.

Where I disagree, is the value of the expansion, but I am happy it's a cash item as it will be discounted at some point in the future to where I will perceive it as a value for what it contains. I have so many games to play I'm not in much of a rush to buy anything that isn't discounted at this point. I'm not a very compulsive player though, and that seems to be the norm here, at least on the forums, so I doubt I am a very useful metric for their marketing scheme.

Onefrkncrzypope · June 2017

Honestly, If the expansion thing continues. There should atleast be a discount for long term subscribers. Having a certain amount of ESO+ months of the year before expansion release you get x% discount on expansion. This would encourage constant subscription and might even contribute to package upgrades due to discount. ESO+ is great for younger accounts but craft bag is the only reason I still subscribe. Since Morrowind really hurt my circle of friends( They stopped logging in), I am contemplating ending subscription. The inventory space doesn't amuse me enough.

Megabear · June 2017

Agreed on ESO+

STEVIL · June 2017

Artanis wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying, but, on a personal level, I think Morrowwind should still be a $40 DLC that should be included in ESO+... I'm not complaining about the pricing, but separate expansion on top of all other DLC release is a little frustrating.

Just imagine being subscribed to Netflix and it's charging $10 pay-per-view for a newly released high-budget series. You'd feel bad even if that particular show was worth that much money.

Well i like how you chose to go to ludicrous with your netflix example when an amazingly obvious spot-on Netflix example exists now. I say ludicrous because morrowind is not a pay-per-view but o a one-time purchase.

I subscribe to netflix.
i pay such and such and i get all their streaming content.
However, they also last i checked also have a DVD side and that costs ***EXTRA***. So i am faced with Netflix deciding to carry some content that i can stream for my subscription and Netflix deciding to carry some content that streaming for free sub does not cover and that requires another cost - a different sub price.

So, netflix already has a "sub gets you some but not all" and it is based on what netflix decides to put where.

Skjoldur · June 2017

TheDuck wrote: »

Artanis wrote: »

Just imagine being subscribed to Netflix and it's charging $10 pay-per-view for a newly released high-budget series. You'd feel bad even if that particular show was worth that much money.

Nexflix isnt a game developer, and your argument / comparison is apples to oranges.

Stop whining about the cost of MW. [snip] ..... better come to terms with that fact.

[Edit for baiting]

The only difference that gamers are willing to take almost any *** to play their beloved games and companies are actively using that because they fail in other departments.

matt.mailukb16_ESO · June 2017

@GabiAlex
Some people are good at inventory management and some are not. What I think is that no game should make people have to manage their inventories, we should be playing and having fun instead.

khele23eb17_ESO · June 2017

I play MMOs to play MMOs not to play warehouse manager.

As for Morrowind... its too small for an expansion, too expensive for a dlc/chapter/whatever.

snakester320 · June 2017

havent brought morrowind and won't could see from the feed back from a lot of pc ppl it's a rip off ..
Expansions that are full priced should not have such little content in it ZOS is turning into EA ..
eso + is a good thing but it should have never become optional and there should have been more content updates every three months for your compulsory sub allowing regular content to keep you busy and in turn gathering funds and revenue to develop said content and then true expansions with solid huge content at full price..
sure have your cash shop but keep them to a limit few costumes and certain mounts not increase the prices more and more then go so far as to have players gamble on content they want !!
classic case of make it free to play then scam money out of whales to raise revenue to make occasional content by drawing off the hype of yet another previous elder scrolls game and its lore to sucker players to fork out big dollars then cut it up into peices to sell for more money!!
I'm a passionate gamer that believes fair money spent for fair game given but it's more take than give in eso and there's far better and fairer mmos out there!!

idk · June 2017

@GabiAlex

I say it's great you choose to not go with ESO+. I also say it's not really for you to determine what value ESO+ has for others. I also say we drawling don't care how you play the game and justify anything. I say everyone has their own choice on how they play and how they organize and it's not your place to cast judgement which kinds sounds like you are.

tonemd · June 2017

If Zenimax just came out and said,

"We are reneging on our promise. Your $15 a month sub will no longer cover all downloadable content. Major roll-up additions to gameplay, systems, maps and storylines will now be priced separately. We would love it if you'd stay and enjoy the content but understand if you decide to leave.",

how many of you would still be playing?

If the answer is yes, you're complaining just to complain. If the answer is no, why are you still here?