Can't get used to sustain changes. No sustain = no fun
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Beesting✭✭✭✭@leepalmer95 i did hof on the evening the patch came out, finished it at 2:30 am and it was an awesome experience.
But i made this post to share my feeling of loss, not to argue with you. I am glad you are still enjoying yourself.Beesting, Bosmer Magica DK, AD EU, crafter
Slager, Dunmer Magica DK, DC EU, pvp
Farmer, Dunmer Magica DK, AD EU, trials build
Every major patch looks like the end of the world but somehow i just cannot stop playing.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@leepalmer95 considering i had allready played 2000+ hours by the time eso came out on ps4 i still find it hard to take advice from console players
But i appreciate you trying
This is not about copy pasting builds however, it is my sense of loss with the direction the game is taking, no progession but the constant nerfs
No amount of throwing heavy attacks in will fix this
Yea, cos when you use 1 or 2 abilities and resources all gone, it's ridiculous. It should at least let us use 4-6 times before draining the resources.
Also, the healing cone theme is really not working with pug groups, they don't care where the healer is and just die.
Stop exaggerating so much.
You don't run out in 1-2 skills, you lost at the most using full medium or light 23% cost reduction and 10%~ regen.
Your skills don't suddenly cost 8k, if your in pvp and still running an old builds its time to switch, if your in battlegrounds its time to drop heavy.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
CoachPower✭✭✭I agree.. It's really just not fun anymore.DC-EU-PCCoach-Power - Magicka Sorcerer with mediocre DPS - PvP/PvEEternal-Envy - Magicka Templar - DD-Sookie Northman - Magicka Nightblade - DDEva the Whipmistress - Magicka Dragonknight - DDHaving-A-Bad-Time - Magicka Templar - HealerLady Mormont - Stamina Dragonknight - Tank11 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Really -_- Why target only Magicka Sorcs? In many fights they were not even the most efficient for solo content.Yes, there were problems. Infinistain had characters like mag sorcs soloing group content without even trying. There was almost no point of even having stamina and magika bars because you'd never run out of resources.
Everything that was soloable before, is still soloable now. Also every class can solo content, including group dungeons.
There are 2 boss fights (Dranos Velador, The Adjudicator) that only a Sorcerer or Warden can solo thanks to Pets.
There is only 1 boss fight (Planar Inhibitor) that only a Magicka Sorcerer can possibly hope to solo thanks to the gap-creating utility of Bolt Escape, though it *may* be doable on a Nightblade with Summon Shade.
Morrowind sustain changes were targeted at group sustain, which is clear based on the removal of Necrotic Orb's allied resource restore on synergy.
Js
2 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Im doing just fine sustain wise no changes at all still decent recovery went from 1600 rec to 1400 didnt break the game for me. Only hiccups i see are new characters getting a rough start from lack of dmg and sustain. But gain like 10 lvls and get a few passives and tou good0 -
Dantaria✭✭✭✭✭
Phahahahaha!IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
People say forums once had LOL button. Need one here desperately, @IzakiBrotherSs.
Playing TES from Morrowind, original Morrowind, mind you. TES never was about resource management
It was about overleveling and finding a cheese, which made you immortal killing machine. You remember Alchemy in Morrowind? Remember 120%+ Chameleon in Oblivion? Paralyze in both? Skyrim? Oh boy, I don't even know where to start about Skyrim
Resource management, what a joke. Noone ever bothered, except for those who strictly chose to by self-imposed arbitrary restrictions. There was never any need to bother, because countless strategies existed to faceroll the game
I won't say how much I dislike the "balance changes", I already said that countless times. Game recieved -100 to fun and nothing can be done here. All I can say about "just adapt" (LOL), I said there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4220956/#Comment_4220956. Won't repeat myself.
But please, do cut this "resource management was always a part of all TES games". It's honestly LOL-worthy and LOL-worthy only.
Edited by Dantaria on June 12, 2017 1:37AMEnglish isn't my native, apologies for any mistakes.12 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@Doctordarkspawn @ArchMikemDoctordarkspawn wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@ArchMikemSneaky-Snurr wrote: »I feel you OP but the only way now is to, well, adapt.
"Learn to Adapt", has become the new "Learn to Play" and "Git Gud".
Do note that I meant it with no prejudice and offense whatsoever.
I share OP's feelings and I do wish that most of the sustain nerf is reverted but in reality, it's not going to happen anytime soon so the next best step for everyone is to adapt to the new combat environment, there's no other way.
I'm one of the people who are against most of those nonsensical changes to sustain but we can either complain about it till the ends of the earth or we simply change our playstyle to suit the new environment (while still pleading to ZoS to revert the changes).
We can, however, leave. Which is more productive suggesting then suggesting we submit to the whims of the mad maestro that is Wrobel and continue to eat the crap sandwitch and ask for seconds.
Impact their bottom line. At the very least? Seek joy and dont be content to be a thrall to the company.
Actually, I still enjoy the game for what it's worth (minus Morrowind 'Chapter').
However, it takes more than a few leavers to affect ZoS's bottom line and I do not want this game to die off because ZoS aren't making enough to sustain (pun intended) the game for a few extended years. If that's the case, then there would be no ESO and that's disheartening.
I'd rather have a new Dev team work on ESO who are familiar with the ES series and are MUCH MUCH more efficient and sensibly-forward-thinking than the current team.
At this point, I do not believe ESO is worth saving.
It's entire run has been plagued by performance issues, insane design decisions from the balance staff and far too much meddling about with both. Wrobel isn't going anywhere, and he is the main issue with the balance. ZOS isn't going to spring for better servers, and that's why the packet loss is so high.
The game is not going to fix itself and ZOS has proven it does not want your feedback. Sorry, but I dont believe this is worth saving anymore. The experiment has gone on long enough. I hope black deserts release on console does well enough to put a serious hurt into ZOS's bottom line, enough for them to re-evaluate how much ill will they can skirt by with.
The sustain changes are a symptom of bad management. The performance issues are a symptom of bad management. Until ZOS fires it's current team and rehires, there. Will. Be. No. Fixing. These. Issues. My problem is no longer with the game, but the people who are butchering it.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 12, 2017 2:08AM7 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm still doing 30k self-buffed on the 6mil dummy as a magblade.. not as high as last patch but def not a 'wet noodle'
dummies don't hit back or drain you, do they?
i'm sorry, but sometimes these changes are just *** tedious.
6 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sustain on a mdk is a joke with battle roar passive change. Getting a heavy attack in while keeping up dots plus a spammable like whip lmao it's a joke.0 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭
Phahahahaha!IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
People say forums once had LOL button. Need one here desperately, @IzakiBrotherSs.
Playing TES from Morrowind, original Morrowind, mind you. TES never was about resource management It was about overleveling and finding a cheese, which made you immortal killing machine. You remember Alchemy in Morrowind? Remember 120%+ Chameleon in Oblivion? Paralyze in both? Skyrim? Oh boy, I don't even know where to start about Skyrim
Resource management, what a joke. Noone ever bothered, except for those who strictly chose to by self-imposed arbitrary restrictions. There was never any need to bother, because countless strategies existed to faceroll the game
I won't say how much I dislike the "balance changes", I already said that countless times. Game recieved -100 to fun and nothing can be done here. All I can say about "just adapt" (LOL), I said there: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4220956/#Comment_4220956. Won't repeat myself.
But please, do cut this "resource management was always a part of all TES games". It's honestly LOL-worthy and LOL-worthy only.
It's been a long time...
But wasn't mag at 0 regen in TES3?5 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »I feel you OP but the only way now is to, well, adapt.
"Learn to Adapt", has become the new "Learn to Play" and "Git Gud".
More like it has become "ignore the fact that this game is garbage"6 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭O2 issue, I barely changed anything. I use the new health\maxstat\same Regen drinks now, and heavy attack weave below 30% until 90%. No issues, low dmg loss (stam NB, stam warden, mag sorc, and a mag NB)0 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Considering all the high end pve DD's are running the exact same/similar damage setups (some people are testing the new sets) with the exact same lack of sustain, I'm not sure how you are struggling to adapt. They adapted by heavy attacking lol.0
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Agalloch✭✭✭✭✭I agree with OP in almost every part.
Even I adapted and rebuild my char , the heavy fights are not so fun anymore.
This is the first MMO where the devs nerf players instead of creating more challenging content. And I play MMOs since Ultima Online.
I'm still playiing because I love the game, the lore, the graphics, almost everything but the combat mechanics broke something in this game.
Future will tell ...I hope the devs will make adjustments to the classes butchered with the morrowind patch ( stamina dk for example)
English is not my native language.Edited by Agalloch on June 12, 2017 6:31AM9 -
Kay1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just realized the nerf to sustain is practically inexistant
My DPS is higher than ever while my sustain is also better, you realize now we get 30-35% increased damage from CP? It used to be 23-25%.
My 51k killer's blade would like to talk with you
K1 The Big Monkey3 -
Blud✭✭✭✭✭I'm not having any problems with it, though I haven't been running trials. For everything else, seems fine.Edited by Blud on June 12, 2017 7:29AM2 -
TheUrbanWizard✭✭✭✭Might just be me, but I prefer the new leeching strikes on my stamblade over the old siphoning attacks.
Can keep it up all the time, no need to attack. 1 recovery glyph, Cameron drink in certain situations, I'm happy.
Oh, and VO is niice
Edited by TheUrbanWizard on June 12, 2017 7:38AM0 -
Sneaky-Snurr✭✭✭✭✭
@DoctordarkspawnDoctordarkspawn wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@Doctordarkspawn @ArchMikemDoctordarkspawn wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@ArchMikemSneaky-Snurr wrote: »I feel you OP but the only way now is to, well, adapt.
"Learn to Adapt", has become the new "Learn to Play" and "Git Gud".
Do note that I meant it with no prejudice and offense whatsoever.
I share OP's feelings and I do wish that most of the sustain nerf is reverted but in reality, it's not going to happen anytime soon so the next best step for everyone is to adapt to the new combat environment, there's no other way.
I'm one of the people who are against most of those nonsensical changes to sustain but we can either complain about it till the ends of the earth or we simply change our playstyle to suit the new environment (while still pleading to ZoS to revert the changes).
We can, however, leave. Which is more productive suggesting then suggesting we submit to the whims of the mad maestro that is Wrobel and continue to eat the crap sandwitch and ask for seconds.
Impact their bottom line. At the very least? Seek joy and dont be content to be a thrall to the company.
Actually, I still enjoy the game for what it's worth (minus Morrowind 'Chapter').
However, it takes more than a few leavers to affect ZoS's bottom line and I do not want this game to die off because ZoS aren't making enough to sustain (pun intended) the game for a few extended years. If that's the case, then there would be no ESO and that's disheartening.
I'd rather have a new Dev team work on ESO who are familiar with the ES series and are MUCH MUCH more efficient and sensibly-forward-thinking than the current team.
At this point, I do not believe ESO is worth saving.
It's entire run has been plagued by performance issues, insane design decisions from the balance staff and far too much meddling about with both. Wrobel isn't going anywhere, and he is the main issue with the balance. ZOS isn't going to spring for better servers, and that's why the packet loss is so high.
The game is not going to fix itself and ZOS has proven it does not want your feedback. Sorry, but I dont believe this is worth saving anymore. The experiment has gone on long enough. I hope black deserts release on console does well enough to put a serious hurt into ZOS's bottom line, enough for them to re-evaluate how much ill will they can skirt by with.
The sustain changes are a symptom of bad management. The performance issues are a symptom of bad management. Until ZOS fires it's current team and rehires, there. Will. Be. No. Fixing. These. Issues. My problem is no longer with the game, but the people who are butchering it.
Lmao. Bolded part is actually my beef and I think you missed my point as I actually share your thoughts on your concerns.
And like I've previously said, a new Dev team is what's needed to make the game better. Desperately.The Order of the Shadows: Nightmare-
EP CP810 Nightblade
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AD CP810 Templar
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AD CP810 Dragon Knight
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AD Lvl 25 Sorceror
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DC Lvl 23 Nightblade
Shadow hide you. -Unknown
There is no clean fight in a war. -Shun Izaki1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I took the chance to swap over from a DW Stam Sorc to a 2H Stam Sorc, figured I might as well change how I play a little bit with all the changes.
Curiously, I feel like I do more damage and have less trouble sustaining than I did pre-Morrowind.
Makes ya think...
Edit: what do you guys reckon the minimum weapon damage/stamina regen ratio should be post-Morrowind?
I'm at 3124/909Edited by Bobby_V_Rockit on June 12, 2017 8:05AM0 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah there are other ways to balance the game without killing sustain. That was one of the stupidest ideas they ever came up with, but they are prorbably gonna stick with it since people at ZOS play a completely different game than we do and they make balance changes based on prophecies not feedback.6 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »I mean... If you were planning on doing vMol Hard Mode, I'm guessing you know how the game works, shouldn't be hard to adapt to something as easy to fix as sustain changes...
A heavy attack or 2 doesn't hurt your DPS at all and it gives more than enough juice to last for 15minute fights. Just have to learn how to use it and when.
Adapting to the changes still feels nothing like the game used to.
It´s flatout horrible gameplay since morrowind. I don´t like it at all personally (and would probably stop pveing at all if i didn´t like my guild quite as much).
Just the fact that you can adapt does not make it fun to play in the new environment.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
johnnified✭✭✭Simple then, don't play
Nobody is forced to play a game they don't see fun, bye.Edited by johnnified on June 12, 2017 8:34AM2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I took the chance to swap over from a DW Stam Sorc to a 2H Stam Sorc, figured I might as well change how I play a littlw bit with all the changes.
Curiously, I feel like I do more damage and have less troublw sustaining than I did pre-Morrowind.
Stamsorc (and sorcs in generall) is the class that took the sustainchanges best. I only speaking from experience trying maelstrom arena with all classes and sorc is by far the class outperforming the rest (considering myself experienced with vma but absolutely not the best). Only class I´ve been unable to do it on after Morrowind is stamblade (RIP sustain with a khajiit). If doing a list of classes that can sustain best after Morrowind (maelstromtesting):
1. Magsorc/stamsorc
2. Magdk (using Heavy attack build)
3. Magplar
4. Magblade
5. Stamplar
6. Stamblade (RIP)0 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Exactly. I'd also advice against reducing yourself via regen glyphs. Someone else mentioned skeleton tests - this is not really reliable resource management test anymore as basically everyone uses shield in vMOL/vHOF and also Purge in vHOF for 1st boss nuke. Those skills have standarized costs for all classes and you can't really count on being magNB to get away without working around resources even if the "laboratory test" allows to.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
The pro solution is to learn to manage your resources and in the process become a better player. Its as simple as working out a rotation with heavy attack weaving involved in some specific moments.
Definitely wet noodle. ~10k missing.I'm still doing 30k self-buffed on the 6mil dummy as a magblade.. not as high as last patch but def not a 'wet noodle'
Semi-tanking pet. Class shield. High mobility. Instant magicka replenish. Burst selfheal. Probably still forgot something. I'm not even mentioning that 99% of "I did vet. dungeon solo" vids are Magicka Sorcs. Sober up a bit. Thanks.
Really -_- Why target only Magicka Sorcs? In many fights they were not even the most efficient for solo content.Yes, there were problems. Infinistain had characters like mag sorcs soloing group content without even trying. There was almost no point of even having stamina and magika bars because you'd never run out of resources.
Edited by F7sus4 on June 12, 2017 9:01AM4 -
DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Just play with heavy attacks and problem is solved. Fun is coming back, so problem solved and enjoy
DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
The pro solution is to learn to manage your resources and in the process become a better player. Its as simple as working out a rotation with heavy attack weaving involved in some specific moments. Heavy Attacking everything just leads to a boring playstyle. Using heavy attacks strategically makes the whole resource management thing more interesting.
I mean its not even frustrating to learn new things.
Oh and those saying that changes were "nonesense" or "crap" I'm guessing you didn't realize that resource management was always a part of all TES games and that ESO is a TES game therefore should have a big focus on resource management. What fun is it to mash buttons for your skills all the time and repeat the same rotation for a whole boss fight? Now you actually have to think
Yeah.
When I read this in the starting post
played so much my fingers can play it blind my thought was why would I need to be rhere?
Part of the reason I love living breathing and yes changing MMO is that what "solves" the game today will change and tomorrow I may have a new solution to find.
Fresh, if I were still doing the same thing today in this game that I did back in the day, I would have moved on long ago.
I like the new changes for the most part. Not perfect but IMO.a better gameplay for them. The over the top hyperbole seems very tired, dated and mostly just feels like more reflexive than thoughtful.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."3 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The changes have been so incredibly mild, considering everyone was crying that the sky was falling.
And people still don't have to pick up my shards and orbs.
Frankly I didn't notice a change in playstyle at all.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@DoctordarkspawnDoctordarkspawn wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@Doctordarkspawn @ArchMikemDoctordarkspawn wrote: »Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »
@ArchMikemSneaky-Snurr wrote: »I feel you OP but the only way now is to, well, adapt.
"Learn to Adapt", has become the new "Learn to Play" and "Git Gud".
Do note that I meant it with no prejudice and offense whatsoever.
I share OP's feelings and I do wish that most of the sustain nerf is reverted but in reality, it's not going to happen anytime soon so the next best step for everyone is to adapt to the new combat environment, there's no other way.
I'm one of the people who are against most of those nonsensical changes to sustain but we can either complain about it till the ends of the earth or we simply change our playstyle to suit the new environment (while still pleading to ZoS to revert the changes).
We can, however, leave. Which is more productive suggesting then suggesting we submit to the whims of the mad maestro that is Wrobel and continue to eat the crap sandwitch and ask for seconds.
Impact their bottom line. At the very least? Seek joy and dont be content to be a thrall to the company.
Actually, I still enjoy the game for what it's worth (minus Morrowind 'Chapter').
However, it takes more than a few leavers to affect ZoS's bottom line and I do not want this game to die off because ZoS aren't making enough to sustain (pun intended) the game for a few extended years. If that's the case, then there would be no ESO and that's disheartening.
I'd rather have a new Dev team work on ESO who are familiar with the ES series and are MUCH MUCH more efficient and sensibly-forward-thinking than the current team.
At this point, I do not believe ESO is worth saving.
It's entire run has been plagued by performance issues, insane design decisions from the balance staff and far too much meddling about with both. Wrobel isn't going anywhere, and he is the main issue with the balance. ZOS isn't going to spring for better servers, and that's why the packet loss is so high.
The game is not going to fix itself and ZOS has proven it does not want your feedback. Sorry, but I dont believe this is worth saving anymore. The experiment has gone on long enough. I hope black deserts release on console does well enough to put a serious hurt into ZOS's bottom line, enough for them to re-evaluate how much ill will they can skirt by with.
The sustain changes are a symptom of bad management. The performance issues are a symptom of bad management. Until ZOS fires it's current team and rehires, there. Will. Be. No. Fixing. These. Issues. My problem is no longer with the game, but the people who are butchering it.
Lmao. Bolded part is actually my beef and I think you missed my point as I actually share your thoughts on your concerns.
And like I've previously said, a new Dev team is what's needed to make the game better. Desperately.
@Sneaky-Snurr
I didn't miss the point. I just disagree with your contentedness to sit there and choke down the same swill. I personally think telling newcomers what their coming into, and advising people to cut the cord is a better option.
Besides. After reading some of the replies on this thread alone, I half thing throttling this toxic community is a good thing in and of itself.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on June 12, 2017 9:26AM1
