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Morrowind not worth the money
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Dracindo✭✭✭✭✭"That's because there's no difference and it's not an expansion. Literally nothing was expanded so no idea why ZeniMax chooses to describe a chapter as an expansion."
typing one handed to double check my math...
Number of classes available before morrow expansion - 1-2-3-4... 4 fingers so... 4
Number of classes after Morrow expansion... 1-2-3-4-5... 4 finger plus a thumb so....5
5 is more than 4.
hmmm...
Did any other DLCs add classes?
IC - no
orsinium - no
Tg - no
DB - no
hist pits - no
So, literally the number of classes expanded from 4 to 5 and no other DLC did this...
Hmmm...
Are you using the new mis-definition of literally that means "not literally at all"?
Dlc. Can be purchased with crowns. Lower income from Morrowind release because they get no new income from people with plenty of crowns.
Chapter. Can be purchased only with real currency. Every purchase is money in their companies pocket.
This is the difference with Wrothgar and Morrowind. They are equivalent in terms of content but are sold in different ways. It assures them new revenue, no one can buy it with crown they may have stored for years.
As for expansion... wrothgar added a new mode with leaderboards and expanded the world of Tamriel significantly. Any content dlc expands the game. That doesn't seem like an argument for expansion. Expansions don't have to include classes.
I'm not going to say I agree with how they sold this thing. It is in my opinion worth what they are charging. Calling it a chapter and not allowing crown purchase is debatable.
Orsinium added solo arena and morrow added bg
Both added a new element to the competitive game options in that way.
Both added world bosses, delves, dailies, pub dungeons, and quests too.
Both were accompanied by significant base game changes.
Meanwhile, morrow also added new class while Orsinium... Uhhh...
Literally... Nothing.
Add the TG and DB DLC. Then you have two skill lines added, which is one skill line less than Morrowind, but makes up with extra content. Actually, let me throw in the Imperial City DLC as well. Now, you can buy the Guilds and Glory pack for €35 (€5 cheaper than MW).
Conclusion: Morrowind is worth much less than €34,99.
If that is how you choose to make value assessments that's on you.
For me, I do it differently.
To me and others who have in the past with db and 15th made similar points, a new skill line of 5-6 passive is not on par with a new skill line including 5 active, 1 ulti and 4+. Passives. But you choose to count them one for one, that's you.
To me and others comparing the way after launch discount bundle prices to the initial release price is also not a reasonable comparison.
But hey for some its conclusion first then construe a path to that.
Still, add up everything that's added with those other 3 DLC's. With all that, I think it puts the class in shame.0 -
deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ahhh the opposing factions of this game. I don't mean AD, DC, or EP , but the clear divide between the player base and it's opinions on what shouldn't and should be done for the game.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!0 -
Rex-Umbra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's really good content and worth the money. It won't carry you to 50 that's for sure though.Xbox GT: Rex Umbrah
GM of IMPERIUM since 2015.1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ChillsSilvertail wrote: »Developers: "This has around X hours of new content..."
HC Gamer: "BS. I pounded monster drinks, fed my character with every speed buff I could get my grubby hands on, clicked through all the dialogue like pop-up ads on a *** site, and did it in 30 minutes! Not worth!"If only Morrowind was all about the quests your statement might be accurate.
Rp walking and counting all nodes in the way does not count as content.
No, but having a new class at your disposal does. Are you deliberately ignoring that?
Yet some people have never even played some of the original 4 classes. Some just play a main and have alts as mules. Warden might not register for them.
And that need not count toward the time considering battlegrounds and the Warden are just tacked on to make Morrowind seem like more. Take those away, and we see what it is -- DLC on the scale of Orsinium. This is why I expect we will never again see DLC the size of Orsinium as Orsinium would have been a "chapter" under this new model.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It seems to me that quite a few complaints are coming from people who may finally have got that ESO isn't Skyrim only to have kidded themselves that ESO:Morrowind was going to be TES3.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I suppose for me at this point I'm having a really hard time buying into the rationalization of Morrowind being more of an expansion and that's why it can't be bought with crowns. Are we really getting substantially more than we got from Orsinium? That's the benchmark it should be judged by.
@Raeph
That's because there's no difference and it's not an expansion. Literally nothing was expanded so no idea why ZeniMax chooses to describe a chapter as an expansion.
But maybe it's us saying expansion and then saying chapter and this resulted in...we want to charge real money because our crown model is nothing but an equivalent to any Great Depression or financial crash.
The value of a crown is constantly diminishing by each sale, customer support issue or on Xbox getting 10-15k due to eso Plus not working every year.
I've wrote many times. They need to remove the virtual currency entirely and all dlc should appear as an add-on to ESo like Morrowind so that they can align and have a realistic model.
Virtual currencies are dangerous paths https://www.stlouisfed.org/dialogue-with-the-fed/the-possibilities-and-the-pitfalls-of-virtual-currencies
Link 2 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bna.com/taxation-virtual-currency-n73014449855/?amp=true
That's the real world.
While the devaluing may be true for crowns bought separately, it is not true for ESO+ crowns. They hold a consistent value (perhaps discounted if you consider the other benefits to hold some monetary value), so it's the ESO+ customers that get hurt most by not allowing Morrowind to be bought with crowns. But yes, the virtual currency itself is problematic.
But as it is, I find ZOS's rationale to be dishonest as it doesn't hold up with past practice. If they just owned up to the fact that they are doing this just because they found the Orsinium model unsustainable or just because they want to make more money, I'd find it less insulting to my intelligence.
ESO+ crowns have a decreasing value. They accumulate with nothing of use once you get assistants and character slots. You can save the crowns to buy DLC when you stop sub, which means double-paying.
What many end up doing is spending the ESO+ crowns on vanity items they would never have bought otherwise. That means that the value of crowns has been greatly decreased. If you buy a 3000 crown item because you figure "what else will I do with my sub crowns", than the value of your crowns is greatly devalued.
And as there is a glut of crowns, crown store item prices are increasing.2 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭"That's because there's no difference and it's not an expansion. Literally nothing was expanded so no idea why ZeniMax chooses to describe a chapter as an expansion."
typing one handed to double check my math...
Number of classes available before morrow expansion - 1-2-3-4... 4 fingers so... 4
Number of classes after Morrow expansion... 1-2-3-4-5... 4 finger plus a thumb so....5
5 is more than 4.
hmmm...
Did any other DLCs add classes?
IC - no
orsinium - no
Tg - no
DB - no
hist pits - no
So, literally the number of classes expanded from 4 to 5 and no other DLC did this...
Hmmm...
Are you using the new mis-definition of literally that means "not literally at all"?
Dlc. Can be purchased with crowns. Lower income from Morrowind release because they get no new income from people with plenty of crowns.
Chapter. Can be purchased only with real currency. Every purchase is money in their companies pocket.
This is the difference with Wrothgar and Morrowind. They are equivalent in terms of content but are sold in different ways. It assures them new revenue, no one can buy it with crown they may have stored for years.
As for expansion... wrothgar added a new mode with leaderboards and expanded the world of Tamriel significantly. Any content dlc expands the game. That doesn't seem like an argument for expansion. Expansions don't have to include classes.
I'm not going to say I agree with how they sold this thing. It is in my opinion worth what they are charging. Calling it a chapter and not allowing crown purchase is debatable.
Orsinium added solo arena and morrow added bg
Both added a new element to the competitive game options in that way.
Both added world bosses, delves, dailies, pub dungeons, and quests too.
Both were accompanied by significant base game changes.
Meanwhile, morrow also added new class while Orsinium... Uhhh...
Literally... Nothing.
Add the TG and DB DLC. Then you have two skill lines added, which is one skill line less than Morrowind, but makes up with extra content. Actually, let me throw in the Imperial City DLC as well. Now, you can buy the Guilds and Glory pack for €35 (€5 cheaper than MW).
Conclusion: Morrowind is worth much less than €34,99.
If that is how you choose to make value assessments that's on you.
For me, I do it differently.
To me and others who have in the past with db and 15th made similar points, a new skill line of 5-6 passive is not on par with a new skill line including 5 active, 1 ulti and 4+. Passives. But you choose to count them one for one, that's you.
To me and others comparing the way after launch discount bundle prices to the initial release price is also not a reasonable comparison.
But hey for some its conclusion first then construe a path to that.
Still, add up everything that's added with those other 3 DLC's. With all that, I think it puts the class in shame.
Like i said, that is fine from a conclusion first then argument standpoint, but i myself dont feel comparing a year(s) after bundle price vs content to a new price at release vs content a valid path for comparison.
You do then thats the basis for your decisions but since i am pretty sure that morrow will be cheaper a couple years out as most all video games do... i wont make that comparison.
And the statement that morrow literally expanded nothing remains absolutely false.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Raeph✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »NewBlacksmurf wrote: »I suppose for me at this point I'm having a really hard time buying into the rationalization of Morrowind being more of an expansion and that's why it can't be bought with crowns. Are we really getting substantially more than we got from Orsinium? That's the benchmark it should be judged by.
@Raeph
That's because there's no difference and it's not an expansion. Literally nothing was expanded so no idea why ZeniMax chooses to describe a chapter as an expansion.
But maybe it's us saying expansion and then saying chapter and this resulted in...we want to charge real money because our crown model is nothing but an equivalent to any Great Depression or financial crash.
The value of a crown is constantly diminishing by each sale, customer support issue or on Xbox getting 10-15k due to eso Plus not working every year.
I've wrote many times. They need to remove the virtual currency entirely and all dlc should appear as an add-on to ESo like Morrowind so that they can align and have a realistic model.
Virtual currencies are dangerous paths https://www.stlouisfed.org/dialogue-with-the-fed/the-possibilities-and-the-pitfalls-of-virtual-currencies
Link 2 https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bna.com/taxation-virtual-currency-n73014449855/?amp=true
That's the real world.
While the devaluing may be true for crowns bought separately, it is not true for ESO+ crowns. They hold a consistent value (perhaps discounted if you consider the other benefits to hold some monetary value), so it's the ESO+ customers that get hurt most by not allowing Morrowind to be bought with crowns. But yes, the virtual currency itself is problematic.
But as it is, I find ZOS's rationale to be dishonest as it doesn't hold up with past practice. If they just owned up to the fact that they are doing this just because they found the Orsinium model unsustainable or just because they want to make more money, I'd find it less insulting to my intelligence.
ESO+ crowns have a decreasing value. They accumulate with nothing of use once you get assistants and character slots. You can save the crowns to buy DLC when you stop sub, which means double-paying.
What many end up doing is spending the ESO+ crowns on vanity items they would never have bought otherwise. That means that the value of crowns has been greatly decreased. If you buy a 3000 crown item because you figure "what else will I do with my sub crowns", than the value of your crowns is greatly devalued.
And as there is a glut of crowns, crown store item prices are increasing.
Right... I guess I used the term value incorrectly. I mean value in terms of real world money. You buy ESO+ crowns at a fixed price, as opposed to crowns bought separately.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My only real problem with Morrowind (along with other DLCs) is that fact that Vvardenfel landscape, tiles, models, gear, are of much higher quality and accurate to Elder Scrolls compared to the vanilla game.
I have said multiple time that I would be fine if ZOS took the time to update vanilla content one zone at a time while we were busy in Morrowind.
Here is one of my threads discussing this
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/346850/update-vanilla-zone-quality#latest0 -
Eleusian✭✭✭aaron_campion wrote: »I was able to complete the main story of the dlc on my warden before he hit level 15. I was also doing side quests aswell. The morrowind is probably shorter then orisinum and eso+ player got that for free. Really not impressed with eso new "chapters". Its just a way that can get more money off all of us
This is why I decided to wait until it's discount priced ( thinking $20) Kinda feel like the expansion gimmick was a way to cash in on the name Marrowind. Sounds like I have made a good choice. Especiallu since it was blocked from ESO+.PS4 NA2 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭aaron_campion wrote: »I was able to complete the main story of the dlc on my warden before he hit level 15. I was also doing side quests aswell. The morrowind is probably shorter then orisinum and eso+ player got that for free. Really not impressed with eso new "chapters". Its just a way that can get more money off all of us
This is why I decided to wait until it's discount priced ( thinking $20) Kinda feel like the expansion gimmick was a way to cash in on the name Marrowind. Sounds like I have made a good choice. Especiallu since it was blocked from ESO+.
I bought it and enjoyed it a bit. But if you don't feel the overwhelming desire to see morrowind waiting for the price drop is probably a good move.0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭aaron_campion wrote: »I was able to complete the main story of the dlc on my warden before he hit level 15. I was also doing side quests aswell. The morrowind is probably shorter then orisinum and eso+ player got that for free. Really not impressed with eso new "chapters". Its just a way that can get more money off all of us
I like Morrowind a lot. The new warden is fun. Battlegrounds seem to have some potential. Vvardenfall is beautiful and different and cool. I played for few hours and haven't completed a single quest. Super ADD here. There's so much to do.
I think it's completely worth the money, and a sub to eso +
Each their own I guess?
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Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »I suppose for me at this point I'm having a really hard time buying into the rationalization of Morrowind being more of an expansion and that's why it can't be bought with crowns. Are we really getting substantially more than we got from Orsinium? That's the benchmark it should be judged by.
This is the problem. The only thing I can see as a possibility is that they have stuff planned to be built off of Morrowind somehow, and this will be the gateway to getting those extra pieces. But, that would then mean further movement away from the ESO+ gets all DLC's free thing, since those DLC's would say ESO+ & Morrowind 'chapter'. I don't see a good, reasonable path from here without completely seeming like cash grabs.
There really isn't 1.
If they do plan on expanding Morrowind with the 3 DLC plans ESO+ members would get as part of their subs, then all the subscribers that don't buy Morrowind (and possibly future chapters) are locked out of it and that's just a huge can of worms in itself.
If Morrowind stays as is, with nothing extra added ever again, then Chapters are a cash grab. They might add a handful of new things (Trial, class, etc.) but as tempting as that might seem, it just seems like a bad practice to charge exponentially higher prices for what amounts to a DLC in regards to the actual content provided.
The only way to appease everyone would be to release new content for both Vanilla ESO and chapters but this is an unrealistic expectation to have as ZOS has a hard enough time making 1 bit of content in a timely fashion, let alone create content for both chapters and base game.
I'm 100% expecting that ZOS will take the 1st plan and expand Morrowind with subsequent DLC, more or less forcing people to buy Morrowind as that's what any smart business would do, to place further value on their product, but I'm honestly not sure if ZOS could survive the backlash of that model. Both sub and non-sub Vanilla ESO players that want nothing to do with Chapters would be up in arms as they are being denied new content just because they didn't want to shell over the initial cost of Morrowind but are willing to buy/sub for subsequent content, with claims of P2W being thrown around more than ever, and how ESO+ is worthless since DLC are Chapter locked (despite all the extra storage space it gets you; people love excluding that)
Regardless of ZOS's actions, someone is going to be upset by it. Either you accept it and fork over the money or you don't and enjoy Vanilla ESO for however long you can play the same content over and over again and enjoy it.
They going to add to Morrowind with DLC but you don't need Morrowind for those documents.
If they're going to add content to Morrowind, I can't imagine them also making that content available to everyone that didn't purchase Morrowind; it cheapens Morrowind for those that did purchase it and the exact same thing happens with those people vs if they didn't release the content for everyone and made it Morrowind exclusive.
There is fundamentally no way to appese both the Morrowind purchasers and non purchases with this current system; 1 or the other is going to be screwed at the end of day.
Argonian forever0 -
DMuehlhausen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I love how people rush things to fulfill their own prophecies.
Seems self-defeating.
Not to be rude, just pointing something out, but the opposite can be said as well:
"I love how people purposely go really slow to fulfill their own prophecies"
Have to average out the 'ZERG' players with the 'stop and smell the flowers' players. Also, I disagree that certain aspects should be included for speed of completion, such as fishing achievements and the like, as those are fairly artificial ways to increase play time. Anyone can create a game with a single quest that takes 5 minutes, and a mini-game that engages a really stingy RNG that on average will take weeks to beat, and has no real reward aside from a sense of self esteem (not sure why) and a title. But, does that mean the game has a play time of weeks? Or, is the REAL play time only minutes? Adding play time through making RNG insanely difficult is not actually increasing the worth.
Sure but the people that take their time, read the quests and try to understand the lore and story don't come and complain about a lack of content or the cost or that something isn't worth it. People like the OP are the type that buy a game, chew the content, get to End before anybody else is there and then complains in there is nothing to do or nobody to group with. All the while there are people out there they are just taking their time.1 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭I think a lot of people are still missing the point of why Morrowind is a fairly nefarious and insidious thing that ZOS has done. By charging money for this expansion (chapter), and not making it a much bigger addition to the game than any normal DLC (pretty much ONLY the Warden is a true non-DLC addition) they have created 2 possible paths to proceed along:
Path1- They create DLC's that are based on Morrowind, or located within, which will require the purchase of Morrowind, thus ESO+ alone will not make it available since Morrowind is not auto-available for ESO+. Will require ESO+ & Morrowind, and breaks the "All content except expansions is open to ESO+ members" thing.
Path2- They create all future DLC's such that people without Morrowind can play them, thus making ESO+ able to play all of it. But, since Morrowind is only basically a DLC with an extra class, what really makes it worth the money? Nothing... it becomes a "You need this so that you can have Warden". Now, since Warden isn't that spectacular, and is probably very balanced actually, this is sort of good news. This is the best path possible, but kind of makes Morrowind fairly pointless overall?
So, Path1 = Horrible Moneygrab and most likely what ZOS is doing. Path2 = The best possible route. As ZOS is really big on grabbing for the money, I see Path2 as ridiculous, and not very probable. If the Warden was super cool and powerful, then I could see Path2 because that would make Morrowind all about getting the Warden to have a powerful class. Since it is not, I see Path1 as the most likely outcome: expect DLC's that are built off of Morrowind and will require it, even if you are ESO+.1 -
Talon_Draconis✭✭✭I think a lot of people are still missing the point of why Morrowind is a fairly nefarious and insidious thing that ZOS has done. By charging money for this expansion (chapter), and not making it a much bigger addition to the game than any normal DLC (pretty much ONLY the Warden is a true non-DLC addition) they have created 2 possible paths to proceed along:
Path1- They create DLC's that are based on Morrowind, or located within, which will require the purchase of Morrowind, thus ESO+ alone will not make it available since Morrowind is not auto-available for ESO+. Will require ESO+ & Morrowind, and breaks the "All content except expansions is open to ESO+ members" thing.
Path2- They create all future DLC's such that people without Morrowind can play them, thus making ESO+ able to play all of it. But, since Morrowind is only basically a DLC with an extra class, what really makes it worth the money? Nothing... it becomes a "You need this so that you can have Warden". Now, since Warden isn't that spectacular, and is probably very balanced actually, this is sort of good news. This is the best path possible, but kind of makes Morrowind fairly pointless overall?
So, Path1 = Horrible Moneygrab and most likely what ZOS is doing. Path2 = The best possible route. As ZOS is really big on grabbing for the money, I see Path2 as ridiculous, and not very probable. If the Warden was super cool and powerful, then I could see Path2 because that would make Morrowind all about getting the Warden to have a powerful class. Since it is not, I see Path1 as the most likely outcome: expect DLC's that are built off of Morrowind and will require it, even if you are ESO+.
Path 3 the call all new DLC chapters except a few very minor dungeons and do the cash grab and continue to screw us till we all quit for another game
Then the can close the servers collect their profit and start another mmo3 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »I think a lot of people are still missing the point of why Morrowind is a fairly nefarious and insidious thing that ZOS has done. By charging money for this expansion (chapter), and not making it a much bigger addition to the game than any normal DLC (pretty much ONLY the Warden is a true non-DLC addition) they have created 2 possible paths to proceed along:
Path1- They create DLC's that are based on Morrowind, or located within, which will require the purchase of Morrowind, thus ESO+ alone will not make it available since Morrowind is not auto-available for ESO+. Will require ESO+ & Morrowind, and breaks the "All content except expansions is open to ESO+ members" thing.
Path2- They create all future DLC's such that people without Morrowind can play them, thus making ESO+ able to play all of it. But, since Morrowind is only basically a DLC with an extra class, what really makes it worth the money? Nothing... it becomes a "You need this so that you can have Warden". Now, since Warden isn't that spectacular, and is probably very balanced actually, this is sort of good news. This is the best path possible, but kind of makes Morrowind fairly pointless overall?
So, Path1 = Horrible Moneygrab and most likely what ZOS is doing. Path2 = The best possible route. As ZOS is really big on grabbing for the money, I see Path2 as ridiculous, and not very probable. If the Warden was super cool and powerful, then I could see Path2 because that would make Morrowind all about getting the Warden to have a powerful class. Since it is not, I see Path1 as the most likely outcome: expect DLC's that are built off of Morrowind and will require it, even if you are ESO+.
Path 3 the call all new DLC chapters except a few very minor dungeons and do the cash grab and continue to screw us till we all quit for another game
Then the can close the servers collect their profit and start another mmo
I've seen forms of that before... They didn't close them down, but they did do barely enough to make the MMO able to be called such, and only put enough into them to keep them going while making more money to build the next MMO. Check out Turbine's history with MMO's. There are 2-3 in their list that started off good, got basically forgotten, then another shows up, does same... until LOTRO, which used most of the money they had gathered.1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Completely disagree. The quality of the quests is head and shoulders above the rest. For once the questing feels as good as a single played Elder Scrolls game. Morrowind brought me back to ESO and I couldn't be happier.
Battle Grounds are also an outstanding feature. Despite some serious issues with the grouping tool and a lack of game type options, I've really enjoyed finally having consistent small scale PVP where the ESO combat system truly shines.
I fell in love with the combat of this game during closed beta because populations were small. After launch it devolved into zergging.
Now I have a consistent way to get skill based PvP.0 -
Ozstryker✭✭✭✭So with the standard digital upgrade you get a crown crate... since I could not give a fug about crates, ive never bought, opened or gave a second thought to them I was not fussed about opening the freebe!
Last night before logging off I decided to open it, first card.. dwemer wolf mount, then two loads of tri pots and then some other random "stuff".....
For me the value is through the roof
Quality content, warden class, a new trial, xp scrolls, quality crafted sets.... and a sweet mount !
I for one am a happy customer...0 -
PocketNova✭✭✭✭My Warden finished the zone (save public dungeons as I was waiting to do those with a friend) at level 17. All quests, delves, world bosses and a few dailies.
Definitely not as much content as advertised but I have such low expectations these days.PC NA
Master Angler
Dressed as Wonder Woman
Living in Hogwarts0 -
robwolf666✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, personally, I'm already a bit cheesed off and I haven't even started playing it. I didn't know about the skills reset, so that's completely f***ed up two of my three characters as I can't remember off the top of my head where the points were distributed, so thanks for that ESO, looks like I'm retiring two earlier than I wanted. Weird thing is, all three are Sorcs, but one has been left virtually untouched, how does that work?0
