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Really debating whether I going to keep supporting ESO with my sub
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ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Quick math check...
If you sub for 3 years (36 months) you come out to 54,000 Crowns.
If you buy all the DLC to date, you end up with (no joke) 43,000 crowns left over.
That's almost 29 months worth of bonus crowns left over to just buy whatever with.
Christ, what did I do with them all? lol
Well I have all the Dlc and still have 9500 but I only been playing subing since it came out last year on the xbone
Like I said I was satisfied with my sub and very happy to give them my $20 /month
But the way they are handling Morrowind has made me angry and thinking of unsubbing for a few months to pay for it
And I still feel betrayed by zmax
I know I've been "defending" ZOS but I totally understand where you're coming from. If I was under the impression that I wan't going to have to pay for more content ever again, this would feel like a betrayal. If I was sitting on enough Crowns to pay for a large DLC with the intent to pay for it when it came out, that would feel like money misspent.
So, yeah, I totally get it, and I've been encouraging people to unsub for a time to break even; if that's how they feel. That's a totally reasonable reaction.
But, like I said before in the other thread, I've been playing MMOs for a long time, I'm accustomed to paying a subscription and I've long since learned that the gaming industry is just a little too volatile to put too much stock in long-term, developer "promises." Things change, that's why the TOS exists, to cover their ass when the inevitable occurs.
Yeah, it's a bummer... When I started playing this game one of the appeals was that it was subscription only, and I didn't have to deal with the kind of things that come with free-to-play games; I'd had enough of it by then. Then the game went subscription optional and I was left having to decide whether or not I liked this game and this digital world well enough to stick around and deal with the crap that inevitably comes with such a change. I think ZOS has handled it as gracefully as they could, and they're dealing with a hell of a juggling act trying to keep both populations happy without going pay-to-win.
But the fact is, when a certain percentage of your population doesn't pay, that money has to come from somewhere. One time initial purchase money only takes you so far, and Crown store purchases may not make up for it. So the question is, do you raise the subscription cost? Jack up Crown store prices even higher (I think they're about at the ceiling of what people will tolerate) or release new content with an actual price tag?
Admittedly, ESO is probably one of the more expensive games on the market if you're actually buying stuff, but that's -because- there are so many players who do not.
"Vote with your wallet," that's what they say, right?
I just hate the Idea of giving in and encouraging the cash grab but I do think this is still the best mmo out there although I seriously looking at eve
Played it few times but really did not have time to get into it.
I supported this game since it came out on the xbone would have gotten it when it came out for the pc but thought the xbone ver is better to play game on.
I remember with daggerfall came out wishing it was multiplayer and this is the closest game to that...wish it was more like real tes game
Anyway I will prob shell out the $50 bucks for morrowind but lost all good will I have for zmax will prob unsub until the next dlc even then might just buy with crowns
I've heard rumor that that's some nice perks in the works for subs... So maybe wait to see what that is (or if that is) before bailing out? I dunno, se above in regards to my thoughts on developer "promises."
Edit: I also don't like the term "cash grab" in regards to this. It makes it sounds nefarious, like they're just twirling their mustaches while they crank up prices.
I mean, ZOS isn't stupid, they had to know that suddenly asking people to pay for additional content was a big departure from their model for the last three years. They had to know there would be back lash, and I can't imagine they'd risk that just because. A change of this magnitude smacks of a certain degree of necessity. You don't just upend a successful business model, ya know.
I think that the way it's been going for the last three years has maybe been projected to not be as sustainable as they'd hoped and changes had to be made. If it's a "cash grab" it's because they need the cash injection; crown store just ain't cuttin' it anymore.Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 6, 2017 10:52PM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Edit: I also don't like the term "cash grab" in regards to this. It makes it sounds nefarious, like they're just twirling their mustaches while they crank up prices.
Well that's EXACTLY what they did with Store Exclusive Mounts.
Treble the prices, then when everyone complains reduce them by 30% so the new "reduced" price is still double the original price.
All The BestThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.2 -
Talon_Draconis✭✭✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Edit: I also don't like the term "cash grab" in regards to this. It makes it sounds nefarious, like they're just twirling their mustaches while they crank up prices.
Well that's EXACTLY what they did with Store Exclusive Mounts.
Treble the prices, then when everyone complains reduce them by 30% so the new "reduced" price is still double the original price.
All The Best
That is what I feel they are doing screwing up people who supported the game0 -
Fallen_Ray✭✭✭✭✭Cancel the subscription. Subscribing is a means to give exorbitant amounts of money to ZOS with almost no benefits at all. It's actually way cheaper to grab crowns during sales to get the dlc's vs subscribing to ESO plus to get them "free".
Add up what you've been paying for the past months or years. You'd have enough to buy a few brand new games and the dlcs from this game."Dear brother, I do not spread rumors, I create them"- Lucien Lachance0 -
Talon_Draconis✭✭✭Fallen_Ray wrote: »Cancel the subscription. Subscribing is a means to give exorbitant amounts of money to ZOS with almost no benefits at all. It's actually way cheaper to grab crowns during sales to get the dlc's vs subscribing to ESO plus to get them "free".
Add up what you've been paying for the past months or years. You'd have enough to buy a few brand new games and the dlcs from this game.
Yes I know but was willing to support the game through subbing....now they screwed us over and my sub is almost worthless.
Crowns cant be used to buy what I want and the only really good thing is the craft bag but I usually don't have a problem with inventory management.
Sure the bag is nice but I just have to only pick up the mats I can use1 -
Meld777✭✭✭✭✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »I am thing hard weather
Yes, you are thing hard weather. Stop playing MMOs. Learn English.Maelstrom Arena Champion | Undaunted | Fighters Guild Victor
Level 50 Magicka NB | CP160+
nAA | vCoH1 HM | nSO | nCoA2 | nDSA | nMA | vVoM
PC EU0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Edit: I also don't like the term "cash grab" in regards to this. It makes it sounds nefarious, like they're just twirling their mustaches while they crank up prices.
Well that's EXACTLY what they did with Store Exclusive Mounts.
Treble the prices, then when everyone complains reduce them by 30% so the new "reduced" price is still double the original price.
All The Best
I can see you clearly didn't read any of my other posts where I specifically pointed out that the high Crown Store prices are a direct result of the subscription-optional business model and that as long as a large fraction of the player base isn't subscribing, the rest of us will have to cover their share of server maintenance, and electricity bills and developer wages."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?1 -
grumlins✭✭✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »I am thing hard weather if I am going to keep subbing ESO plus
Morrowind is DLC should be free with the sub or at least available with crowns!
While I think ESO is the best MMO out there right now I really can't support there marketing strategy
As far as the ESO plus the only thing that has any real value is the bag and access to dlc now they are calling DLC expantions and using that as a excuse for a cash grab
With the $50 dollars they want for morrowind I could get whole other game
Crowns are useless except to buy dlc there is nothing worth buying in the store.
I assume Morrowind will eventually become available once zmax squeezes as much cash as it can from players
I find this detestable and makes me want to not renew my sub in protest!
I hope that zmax corrects this asp and puts Morrowind as regular dlc which it is ! and does not repeat this blatant cash grab again!
It could be worse, they could be releasing a simple cosmetic change to the classes and charging the full $60 for the DLC, or making it so that you have to go back and recharge all of your previous DLCs on the account in order for it to allow you to get the new DLC.
That's what Bungie did last year with their update for Destiny.0 -
Dracofyre✭✭✭✭harvest bag and extra bank vault are just a real old moldy rotten carrot on the stick when we are no longer hungry.
nearly every MMO all have really bad market teams, NWO was turning into casino bait with bad RNG factor, others set prices way over for little tiny result, and lot of others put "Paywall" for progressions, they made many players quit, and took away some items from non-player vendors and moved to market sites just to combat gold sellers from 3rd party sites.
lot of players are tired of "cash-grabs" tactics.
even some of "free games" like CSI: cases online as find things and longer you play and "stamina" get consumed and they want you to buy drinks and foods to refill with real cash.
reason why is was short play for each day, the guys dont want us to sit all day to solve cases, because we all need to walk and some physical activity to stay healthy.
it is funny when players went to game conventions, and all we see overweight folks and really morbidly obese players gaining weight over the years sitting with computer, seeing them bringing 2-3 two-liters of pops and takeout meals at card games.
too easy for smartest hackers can track some CC and informations on us, not good to get chances of exposing the accounts.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
kunquatb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
"Rights" are moral. That's what makes them rights, that's why protecting rights is the standard for morality.
You can't say they have the right and call it immoral.Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 8, 2017 3:15AM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
kunquatb16_ESO✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission."As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
kunquatb16_ESO✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
You're not even making sense.
Stop saying they're immoral.
Explain to me why you wanting it at no extra cost is moral.
Why do you have the moral right to set a price on their work?
Go.Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 8, 2017 3:22AM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
kunquatb16_ESO✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
You're not even making sense.
Stop saying they're immoral.
Explain to me why you wanting it at no extra cost is moral.
Why do you have the moral right to set a price on their work?
Go.
Products are sold at a price customers will bare, therefore, customers dictate what price can be set. Called market forces.
Subscription aren't free, nor are crowns, this argument about "want something free" has no basis whatsoever.
Saying that ESO+ will give access to all DLC, then deciding to not call morrowind a DLC, so as to exclude ESO+ and crown purchasers is immoral. And inevitably, they will release DLC for Morrowind, but ESO+ members without morrowind won't have access to those DLC, even though they will no doubt be called DLC, still not immoral for you?.
Consumers have the right to voice their views, and, as without their money, ESO would be unfunded, in reality fund it's development. Lose the consumer with unwise business decisions, lose the business.1 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
it does not matter how many folks think i do not have the right to live or that it is right to murder me when i have acted legally in the determination as to whether or not it is moral to kill me.
i think you are confusing popularity with morality.
And really not even true popularity but rather vocal loudest on forums.
look, if 200 million folks in america all decide Wonder Woman should be shown for free, are theaters charging folks to see it immoral? Are hackers stealing it and setting it to stream online for free suddenly moral and justified because enough people like getting it for free?
More often than not, the most moral choices are not the most popular ones - though that may be lost on some these days - well looking back at history - most days.
but the long and short of it is this:
i (and others) feel we have gotten our money's worth and more out of our ongoing business dealing with ESO/ZOS etc. I (and others) will continue to support that judgement by subbing or otherwise engaging in further financial dealings with them.
if you (and others) feel you have not gotten your money's worth, the no matter how i feel about it or how popular or unpopular it is, you also have the right and the opportunity to continue to support that judgement of your by changing whether or not or how you interact with ZOS in further business dealings.
You dont need to get a popular support for your claims of moral positioning... you can just show them you mean business (or not) as you move forward.
if instead or in addition to that you wish to also pursue popular public opinion seeking as the victim, that is fine. Just expect others to also come along who disagree and share their opinions too.
Sometimes playing the victim works, sometimes it doesn't. But it is certainly a viable tactic in modern day social media.
You might even be able to monetize your victimhood - start streaming your "years ago i was decieved by ESO" plight, hold a fake funeral for your subscription then follow-up with even more outlandish claims and see if your click rate goes up enough to make the money money money money!
Could work.
has for some.
After all, the victimhood end game meta is martyrdom (with the fake sub funeral in this case.)
I wish you luck..
Edited by STEVIL on June 8, 2017 3:39AMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
You're not even making sense.
Stop saying they're immoral.
Explain to me why you wanting it at no extra cost is moral.
Why do you have the moral right to set a price on their work?
Go.
Products are sold at a price customers will bare, therefore, customers dictate what price can be set. Called market forces.
Subscription aren't free, nor are crowns, this argument about "want something free" has no basis whatsoever.
Saying that ESO+ will give access to all DLC, then deciding to not call morrowind a DLC, so as to exclude ESO+ and crown purchasers is immoral. And inevitably, they will release DLC for Morrowind, but ESO+ members without morrowind won't have access to those DLC, even though they will no doubt be called DLC, still not immoral for you?.
Consumers have the right to voice their views, and, as without their money, ESO would be unfunded, in reality fund it's development. Lose the consumer with unwise business decisions, lose the business.
Corrections below:
Saying that ESO+ will give access to all DLC when that was true, then deciding to not call morrowind a DLC, so as to exclude ESO+ and crown purchasers is immoral announcing a change to that part six months before it happens is completely moral given their users agreed they could change it at anytime.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
kunquatb16_ESO✭✭✭✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
it does not matter how many folks think i do not have the right to live or that it is right to murder me when i have acted legally in the determination as to whether or not it is moral to kill me.
i think you are confusing popularity with morality.
And really not even true popularity but rather vocal loudest on forums.
look, if 200 million folks in america all decide Wonder Woman should be shown for free, are theaters charging folks to see it immoral? Are hackers stealing it and setting it to stream online for free suddenly moral and justified because enough people like getting it for free?
More often than not, the most moral choices are not the most popular ones - though that may be lost on some these days - well looking back at history - most days.
but the long and short of it is this:
i (and others) feel we have gotten our money's worth and more out of our ongoing business dealing with ESO/ZOS etc. I (and others) will continue to support that judgement by subbing or otherwise engaging in further financial dealings with them.
if you (and others) feel you have not gotten your money's worth, the no matter how i feel about it or how popular or unpopular it is, you also have the right and the opportunity to continue to support that judgement of your by changing whether or not or how you interact with ZOS in further business dealings.
You dont need to get a popular support for your claims of moral positioning... you can just show them you mean business (or not) as you move forward.
if instead or in addition to that you wish to also pursue popular public opinion seeking as the victim, that is fine. Just expect others to also come along who disagree and share their opinions too.
Sometimes playing the victim works, sometimes it doesn't. But it is certainly a viable tactic in modern day social media.
You might even be able to monetize your victimhood - start streaming your "years ago i was decieved by ESO" plight, hold a fake funeral for your subscription then follow-up with even more outlandish claims and see if your click rate goes up enough to make the money money money money!
Could work.
has for some.
After all, the victimhood end game meta is martyrdom (with the fake sub funeral in this case.)
I wish you luck..
Or I could just be trying to stop Zos ruining a brilliant game that deserves better than being destroyed. I could be trying to point out the harm of losing customers to bait and switch tactics could do long term. I could, as someone who has supported this game since before day one, be invested in trying to keep what is best about it. I could be trying to make things better.
Did you consider any of that before deciding to make you unjustified character attack against me?
If you want to live in paywall city, their are plenty of MMOs already doing that. ESO+ unique selling point was it's lack of paywalls. If it gives away that, it loses a huge amount of it potential. It has great graphics, but soon, another MMO with better graphics, combat, and paywalls will come, and ESO as ESO has paywalls too, will have no USP, and therefore find it harder to compete.
With paywalls, ESO is giving away one of it's major competitive edges, which can only be increasingly bad going forwards.
If you think it's wrong to point this out, explain precisely why.
Accusing someone of exercising their consumer rights as "playing the victim" and wanting to "monetize" that victimhood is disgusting, and you should be ashamed of yourself.0 -
Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
I (and most other functioning adults in my demographic) could light my bbq with $1000 bills every time I use it, and I'd still be able to keep the lights on and food in the fridge ect. But I'm not going to, because that's profoundly stupid. I'd gain nothing from it.
I wonder if you've ever actually had a job yourself. Because having money doesn't actually mean just tossing it at whatever simply because you can.
People buy things that pass a cost/benefit assessment in their head. Not everything makes the cut, and many people have many different thresholds for many reasons.
3 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sadly whether you support it or not it's very unlikely to change.
Whoever is running the marketing side of ZOS is either being pushed by Zenimax Media to make better profits, or just has that mentality themselves.
It's been an odd change and back and forth with ZOS, but I hope people keep the pressure on for them to change to a more consumer friendly model.
What's really disheartening is that this game is extremely well monetised. They make a killing from the cash shop and optional subs. Yet they somehow don't have the resources to finish Vvardenfell (locked doors, Sheogorad not added, no group dungeons, etc.). This has Zenimax Media written all over it. They're raking in the profits while leaving ZOS with a tight budget to work with.Edited by MLGProPlayer on June 8, 2017 5:40AM1 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
You're not even making sense.
Stop saying they're immoral.
Explain to me why you wanting it at no extra cost is moral.
Why do you have the moral right to set a price on their work?
Go.
Products are sold at a price customers will bare, therefore, customers dictate what price can be set. Called market forces.
No. customers get to choose what they're willing to pay. They don't get to set the price.
If the supplier cannot sell their product at the listed price, then they might choose to lower it, but it is still the supplier setting the price. That's how markets forces interact with one another. The customer doesn't get to set the price. Period. The customer can simply refuse to buy if the price is not acceptable to them.
That's your choice, buy or do not buy. You don't get to call ZOS immoral for setting a price.
The rest of your post is nonsense.Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 8, 2017 4:08AM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
Graydon✭✭✭✭✭Geez! It's a whopping $15 a month!
If that's really a debate, then by all means end your subscription. Save that whole $15 for food, medicine, or a movie.0 -
kunquatb16_ESO✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
You're not even making sense.
Stop saying they're immoral.
Explain to me why you wanting it at no extra cost is moral.
Why do you have the moral right to set a price on their work?
Go.
Products are sold at a price customers will bare, therefore, customers dictate what price can be set. Called market forces.
No. customers get to choose what they're willing to pay. They don't get to set the price.
If the supplier cannot sell their product at the listed price, then they might choose to lower it, but it is still the supplier setting the price. That's how markets forces interact with one another. The customer doesn't get to set the price. Period. The customer can simply refuse to buy if the price is not acceptable to them.
That's your choice, buy or do not buy. You don't get to call ZOS immoral for setting a price.
The rest of your post is nonsense.
Its not setting a price that immoral, itsExcluding it from playing customers such as crown store purchasers and ESO+ that is0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Quick math check...
If you sub for 3 years (36 months) you come out to 54,000 Crowns.
If you buy all the DLC to date, you end up with (no joke) 43,000 crowns left over.
That's almost 29 months worth of bonus crowns left over to just buy whatever with.
Christ, what did I do with them all? lol
Well I have all the Dlc and still have 9500 but I only been playing subing since it came out last year on the xbone
Like I said I was satisfied with my sub and very happy to give them my $20 /month
But the way they are handling Morrowind has made me angry and thinking of unsubbing for a few months to pay for it
And I still feel betrayed by zmax
I know I've been "defending" ZOS but I totally understand where you're coming from. If I was under the impression that I wan't going to have to pay for more content ever again, this would feel like a betrayal. If I was sitting on enough Crowns to pay for a large DLC with the intent to pay for it when it came out, that would feel like money misspent.
So, yeah, I totally get it, and I've been encouraging people to unsub for a time to break even; if that's how they feel. That's a totally reasonable reaction.
But, like I said before in the other thread, I've been playing MMOs for a long time, I'm accustomed to paying a subscription and I've long since learned that the gaming industry is just a little too volatile to put too much stock in long-term, developer "promises." Things change, that's why the TOS exists, to cover their ass when the inevitable occurs.
Yeah, it's a bummer... When I started playing this game one of the appeals was that it was subscription only, and I didn't have to deal with the kind of things that come with free-to-play games; I'd had enough of it by then. Then the game went subscription optional and I was left having to decide whether or not I liked this game and this digital world well enough to stick around and deal with the crap that inevitably comes with such a change. I think ZOS has handled it as gracefully as they could, and they're dealing with a hell of a juggling act trying to keep both populations happy without going pay-to-win.
But the fact is, when a certain percentage of your population doesn't pay, that money has to come from somewhere. One time initial purchase money only takes you so far, and Crown store purchases may not make up for it. So the question is, do you raise the subscription cost? Jack up Crown store prices even higher (I think they're about at the ceiling of what people will tolerate) or release new content with an actual price tag?
Admittedly, ESO is probably one of the more expensive games on the market if you're actually buying stuff, but that's -because- there are so many players who do not.
"Vote with your wallet," that's what they say, right?
I just hate the Idea of giving in and encouraging the cash grab but I do think this is still the best mmo out there although I seriously looking at eve
Played it few times but really did not have time to get into it.
I supported this game since it came out on the xbone would have gotten it when it came out for the pc but thought the xbone ver is better to play game on.
I remember with daggerfall came out wishing it was multiplayer and this is the closest game to that...wish it was more like real tes game
Anyway I will prob shell out the $50 bucks for morrowind but lost all good will I have for zmax will prob unsub until the next dlc even then might just buy with crowns
Eve is a good game for it's genre. But it is a very different type of game. Also, subs get perks there as well and it clearly has a P2W aspect being able to buy new ships and skills via real world cash.
As for ESO being like single player TES games, it could not. There are aspects that a single player game can have but cannot work in an MMO due to balance and other issues. It is a simple and glaring fact that when not put against other players there is much that does not matter vs the basics of what can occur in an MMO.0 -
ShedsHisTail✭✭✭✭✭
✭kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »kunquatb16_ESO wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »Is there a suck it up and pay option?
Jesus man its $40 for an EXPANSHUUUUN (yes expansions are really real....)NOT A DLC
Some of you need to get jobs so you can afford gaming. It's like you think they wave a magic wand that absorbes the cost of creating massive new content.
Like I said it's not the money
I should have gotten morrwind as part of my sub I paid for it
Or at least make it avalible in the crown store I have 9500 crowns and not much to do with them
I would more than willing to give 5000 for morrwind
That said I will prob break down and have to pay the cash it just really pisses me off that zmax is forcing me to do it when I support them with my sub
Re the bold - fake news altfacts...
morrowind was never ever included in any sub tho a slight argument could be made by those who subbed in the days between 12-6 and the announcement.and also chose 6 months for a one month free sub.
that you wish morrow had been included in any sub and that you keep saying it does not make it so.
As much as you wish to defend Zos on this, you can't. The reason is, despite them having the right to do this, it is widely viewed as immoral. Even those that accept this situation rarely defend it with any reasoning other than "that how it is". The effect this has on Subscription and crownstore purchases, long term, may well (or might not) outweigh the short term profits of Morrowind, the business argument cannot be made for this either way. Therefore, a business argument for Morrowind not being in ESO+ or on crownstore cannot be made.
Without a moral argument to explain why what Zos doing this is right, no argument for it has been made. They have the right, read the TOS, is not an argument.
What's the moral argument in favor of not having to pay $40 for it?
It's their product, a product of their time and money and effort, they can charge whatever they want and there is -no- moral argument against that. You gave up the moral high ground when you clicked "ACCEPT" on the Terms of Service. You don't get to complain about an agreement you agreed to.
Morality is not about what you can get away with.
You said they have the right.
Rights are the basis of morality. Rights are the reason we talk about morality. You can't be immoral by exercising your rights. They are your rights. They aren't "getting away with" anything. You gave them permission.
Having the right to do what they do, is not the same and what they are doing being right.
If enough people feel this to be unjust, and opt out of ESO+ and crowns, it is not right, even if they have the right.
It's bad morally, and it's bad business.
You're not even making sense.
Stop saying they're immoral.
Explain to me why you wanting it at no extra cost is moral.
Why do you have the moral right to set a price on their work?
Go.
Products are sold at a price customers will bare, therefore, customers dictate what price can be set. Called market forces.
No. customers get to choose what they're willing to pay. They don't get to set the price.
If the supplier cannot sell their product at the listed price, then they might choose to lower it, but it is still the supplier setting the price. That's how markets forces interact with one another. The customer doesn't get to set the price. Period. The customer can simply refuse to buy if the price is not acceptable to them.
That's your choice, buy or do not buy. You don't get to call ZOS immoral for setting a price.
The rest of your post is nonsense.
Its not setting a price that immoral, itsExcluding it from playing customers such as crown store purchasers and ESO+ that is
In what fashion is it immoral?
Who's rights have been violated?Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 8, 2017 4:26AM"As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
Have you seen the Twin Lamps?0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Talon_Draconis wrote: »ShedsHisTail wrote: »Quick math check...
If you sub for 3 years (36 months) you come out to 54,000 Crowns.
If you buy all the DLC to date, you end up with (no joke) 43,000 crowns left over.
That's almost 29 months worth of bonus crowns left over to just buy whatever with.
Christ, what did I do with them all? lol
Well I have all the Dlc and still have 9500 but I only been playing subing since it came out last year on the xbone
Like I said I was satisfied with my sub and very happy to give them my $20 /month
But the way they are handling Morrowind has made me angry and thinking of unsubbing for a few months to pay for it
And I still feel betrayed by zmax
I know I've been "defending" ZOS but I totally understand where you're coming from. If I was under the impression that I wan't going to have to pay for more content ever again, this would feel like a betrayal. If I was sitting on enough Crowns to pay for a large DLC with the intent to pay for it when it came out, that would feel like money misspent.
So, yeah, I totally get it, and I've been encouraging people to unsub for a time to break even; if that's how they feel. That's a totally reasonable reaction.
But, like I said before in the other thread, I've been playing MMOs for a long time, I'm accustomed to paying a subscription and I've long since learned that the gaming industry is just a little too volatile to put too much stock in long-term, developer "promises." Things change, that's why the TOS exists, to cover their ass when the inevitable occurs.
Yeah, it's a bummer... When I started playing this game one of the appeals was that it was subscription only, and I didn't have to deal with the kind of things that come with free-to-play games; I'd had enough of it by then. Then the game went subscription optional and I was left having to decide whether or not I liked this game and this digital world well enough to stick around and deal with the crap that inevitably comes with such a change. I think ZOS has handled it as gracefully as they could, and they're dealing with a hell of a juggling act trying to keep both populations happy without going pay-to-win.
But the fact is, when a certain percentage of your population doesn't pay, that money has to come from somewhere. One time initial purchase money only takes you so far, and Crown store purchases may not make up for it. So the question is, do you raise the subscription cost? Jack up Crown store prices even higher (I think they're about at the ceiling of what people will tolerate) or release new content with an actual price tag?
Admittedly, ESO is probably one of the more expensive games on the market if you're actually buying stuff, but that's -because- there are so many players who do not.
"Vote with your wallet," that's what they say, right?
I just hate the Idea of giving in and encouraging the cash grab but I do think this is still the best mmo out there although I seriously looking at eve
Played it few times but really did not have time to get into it.
I supported this game since it came out on the xbone would have gotten it when it came out for the pc but thought the xbone ver is better to play game on.
I remember with daggerfall came out wishing it was multiplayer and this is the closest game to that...wish it was more like real tes game
Anyway I will prob shell out the $50 bucks for morrowind but lost all good will I have for zmax will prob unsub until the next dlc even then might just buy with crowns
I've heard rumor that that's some nice perks in the works for subs... So maybe wait to see what that is (or if that is) before bailing out? I dunno, se above in regards to my thoughts on developer "promises."
Edit: I also don't like the term "cash grab" in regards to this. It makes it sounds nefarious, like they're just twirling their mustaches while they crank up prices.
I mean, ZOS isn't stupid, they had to know that suddenly asking people to pay for additional content was a big departure from their model for the last three years. They had to know there would be back lash, and I can't imagine they'd risk that just because. A change of this magnitude smacks of a certain degree of necessity. You don't just upend a successful business model, ya know.
I think that the way it's been going for the last three years has maybe been projected to not be as sustainable as they'd hoped and changes had to be made. If it's a "cash grab" it's because they need the cash injection; crown store just ain't cuttin' it anymore.
It is more likely that Zos determined that the new current model is a better business model that what they did the past 18 months. It does not mean the previous DLC only model was bad for them.
It appears that they have been working towards this switch by adding other value to the subscription part with a crafting bag and the new double bank space as a trade off.
Further, considering that purchasing DLCs without having a sub has been a much lower revenue source vs subscriptions, even before crown sales, having the expansion purchased for cash ensures a stronger value up front. This does not even take into account that there are some that play this game and are only interested in PvP and never purchased a DLC, except maybe IC, and this is another area that Zos was able to increase revenue.
Of Course, it is not without risk. Zos knew that some would balk at this. It is a risk that they will have to live with one way or another.0
