PSA: Scammers Stalking Guild Stores, I lost 400k.

uzbachchi · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Even CoD is not 100% legit either, they could sit on the item for the 3 days before its mailed back, its not as bad as completely losing it but still sucks, also you lose out on the CoD fee as well if it was a high ticket item that could cost quite a bit

Unless it's something cheap I add the COD fee to the gold requested and make sure they know they're getting hit with it so they can opt out before I send it. I'm not eating a huge COD fee if they didn't want to go through the guild trader.

ookami007 · June 2017

Was his username @Nigerian_Prince?

burglar · June 2017

Thanks for the warning!

I don't think the OP should be punished, but I agree that people should be as careful as possible. I'd be happy that this happened in a video game rather than during a real life transaction. I wish I could go back and learn a lesson like this in a video game.

I think the point here should be, be careful!

QuebraRegra · June 2017

why not COD?

Beerbong_Ginn · June 2017

Had someone try this to me the other day. Seemed shady, so I ignored. Wish I had thought to screencap the name.

necronomniconb14_ESO · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

yep. A convoluted system that a very select few can manage to control and exploit for their own benefit only encourages, evens mandates (sometimes, I will not debate it it is based on the individual's needs not the community and makes sense from that angle) this way of conducting business. Another one I suggest people blame zyngamax and not the players for. Don't hate the players, hate The Game. You just lost The Game. <--- We all did.

necronomniconb14_ESO · June 2017

ProbablePaul wrote: »

Thanks for the warning!

I don't think the OP should be punished, but I agree that people should be as careful as possible. I'd be happy that this happened in a video game rather than during a real life transaction. I wish I could go back and learn a lesson like this in a video game.

I think the point here should be, be careful!

irl I don't generally have to open a laggy trade screen with somebody to avoid the need to ride ubers around hell and creation in the hopes of bumping into the person I wish to conduct business with.

cmetzger93 · June 2017

Now THIS is a good reason for a permaban! Let's see some results!!

Streega · June 2017

Roovin wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Roovin wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Roovin wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

Ish, no.

Running around and finding deals is so much better.

Some people don't have the time to go looking around every day to get what they want, most just end up quitting due to the fact this system really is bad tbh.

Meh. A centralized auction house would pretty much kill a ton of dedicated trading guilds. Lots of these guilds survive by buying and reselling.

And there are ways to find what you need in minutes using

https://us.tamrieltradecentre.com/pc/Trade

Yeah TTC has listings but it doesn't say if the item gets sold or not that's the flaw.

Sort it by most recent and 99% of the time you'll be able to find what you are looking for and have it actually be available.

I just don't like a centralized AH since it heavily favors those who can clear the best content in the game and/or play all the time. The way it is now you can spend 30 minutes looking for deals and make tons of money. Heck, yesterday I bought something for 18k and resold it for 330k . Buying and reselling is a game in and of itself. It's fun for a lot of people.

Obviously you don't like it and that's fine. We all have different tastes.

That's exactly the problem. I used to find good deals (not for re-sale, for myself), but now all I see is overpriced items. Thank you for ruining the market

Back to the topic: I never agree to trade directly with a stranger, only with guild buddies. Never been scammed. Use the guild store or beat it.

Judas Helviaryn · June 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

Really sorry for you OP.

And all the victim blaming, wow. OP was blatantly tricked in a targeted scheme, doesn't matter if he/she made a mistake, there is someone/people out there deliberately, and despicably scamming unprepared people.

If that happened to myself I would have saved video clip (ps4) as proof of the scam to show to customer care (although i don't know what action would be taken).

Funny thing? All of the potential scammers who have no issues with the act are outing themselves on this thread, and right now probably finding themselves added to a few blacklists.

Mitoice · June 2017

JESUS CHRIST dude... this scam is older than the Earth.. they did this on WOW and it had an AH....

Just learn.. NEVER.. HIT SUBMIT TILL THE OTHER PLAYER HAS PUT THE MONEY FIRST...

this guy tried to do the same thing to me for the breton throne yellow recipe..

I reported it.. but he never took my money...

I just saw him cancelling a lot and I remembered this behavior from WOW so.. i gave him an insult tjen reported him.

Mitoice · June 2017

also... if you see anyone taking the money then putting trade.. then taking the money again is a scammer

Lady_Rosabella · June 2017

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Yes this is scamming plain and simple and is just wrong.
I was contacted by a GM of a sister guild of ours a while back. I don't know if this is what happened with the OP, but they told me about a new "Add-On" that allows a player to instantly remove gold at the time of hitting "submit" in person to person trades.
(Perhaps @Lady_Rosabella will comment on it here?)
I never do trade this way any more. I use only guild stores or COD mail.
And, NO! A central auction house will not stop this behavior.
May the Ban Hammer find these scammers and hit them with Perma-Ban!!!
Huzzah!

Yes, @wenchmore420b14_ESO, I have had this happen to a few members in my guilds in the past month. I have warned them about not trading with people they do not know in the game. If someone wants to purchase something from you bad enough they will pay the COD charge, it's not worth taking the chance of loosing your item.

To me, what happened to the OP was a SCAM, if it wasn't the person who took the item would have whispered the OP and proceed to give him his gold, not run away and put the OP on ignore. Scam/Trickery, whatever you want to call it, this person should not be allowed to continue doing this to people!

The trading system is what it is, and it could be better imho, I just wish ZOS would offer more options to players who have been victims of these scams/trickery but it has been my experience, hearing from people who have had this happen to them, that ZOS will not offer support for in-game transactions. Which really hurts new players especially since they may not be use to how the trading system works.

If anyone has had experiences with someone like this, please mail me in game so I can warn others in my guilds about these people.

Queo · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

no it wouldnt, did you read what the OP said? "he wanted to do a person to person trade to avoid fee" you don't think there would be a fee with WAH?

LOL WAH... that can be a tag you people crying for a world auction house...

CrazyCleatus · June 2017

Lol, this trick has been around since original Runescape. I got scammed the exact same way when I was 10 years old back in 2000...

Sorry to say, but it's your fault for falling for such a lame trick, and I don't think anyone should receive punishment for pulling it off on naive MMO players like you.

starkerealm · June 2017

Jciampi wrote: »

Anything over 10k in value I only sell in guild store or over COD. I've been scammed like this once when I first got the game. Never again. Only trade in person low cost items or to guild mates

Honestly, most of the time, I just list stuff. I'll take the hit to my bottom line, for the convenience. Not having to hunt someone down, not having to worry about scams, or about the item sitting in their mail unclaimed.

Tasear · June 2017

Invincible wrote: »

It's not a scam if you hit submit

Everyone who agreed to this is a bad person.

LadyLavina · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

lol logic does not compute. this could still easily happen in a system like that

starkerealm · June 2017

LadyLavina wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

lol logic does not compute. this could still easily happen in a system like that

It gets better: The scammer in question is finding items in guild stores, and contacting the buyers directly, to get the item OUT of the guild store and into a face to face trade.

LadyLavina · June 2017

starkerealm wrote: »

LadyLavina wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

lol logic does not compute. this could still easily happen in a system like that

It gets better: The scammer in question is finding items in guild stores, and contacting the buyers directly, to get the item OUT of the guild store and into a face to face trade.

Not showing the @ name of the seller would be a good way to combat this

geonsocal · June 2017

Tasear wrote: »

Invincible wrote: »

It's not a scam if you hit submit

Everyone who agreed to this is a bad person.

I know right...definitely some shady folks kicking it here and in game...

always funny how people think their actions with others will have no consequence within their lives...

"but I get away with it all the time"...nope, not true - they're just clueless regarding the hidden costs for what they do...

judgement comes for us all...kind of like with mannimarco

starkerealm · June 2017

LadyLavina wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

LadyLavina wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

This is why a centralized server wide AH would be best, to stop scammers

lol logic does not compute. this could still easily happen in a system like that

It gets better: The scammer in question is finding items in guild stores, and contacting the buyers directly, to get the item OUT of the guild store and into a face to face trade.

Not showing the @ name of the seller would be a good way to combat this

It's true. Though, honestly having the seller's @name visible does have merits. This one really does end up as a social engineering issue though. There's only so much you can do to protect people from that. The best option remains, educating them. Telling them how this stuff works, and how to use these systems to avoid abuse. It's not perfect, but it will severely cut down on this stuff.

kargen27 · June 2017

altemriel wrote: »

Alanar wrote: »

Here's a warning to the ESO community about a current in-game scam.

I was contacted on two successive days by a player who wanted to buy a high-value item (Attunable Blacksmithing Station) but wanted to trade in person to save the guild store fees. I had one on hand, so I agreed. They then grouped with me, met up, I placed the item in the trade window, they put in the gold, and then I submitted and they canceled. This repeated twice (I thought the trade system was glitching as it has in the past) and then I submitted before they put in the gold and they ran off with the item. They then immediately ignored me so I couldn't whisper them and haven't been heard from since.

I know this sort of cheating has gone on in the past, however this player showed a higher degree of sophistication than most. They specifically targeted me because I had a high-value item listed on a top guild trader (ETU on PC / NA), and they messages me on two consecutive days. If they did this once to me, I can only expect that they will continue to do this to others until their crimes catch up with them. For now, I would recommend never trading with strangers directly, and instead using guild stores for sales to avoid scams.

For ZOS, I have reported this player using the in game system, I hope you address this promptly. In either case, I'll report the results of my support experience here as well.

wait, why you submit offer until they place the gold into it too on their side?

There is actually a spike in this kind of activity. My trade guild has had several members sent messages saying a person would prefer to buy something face to face instead of through the guild. What they do is try and time removing the gold just a split moment before you hit submit. If they fail they simply void the trade and try again. We have advised everybody in our guild that if a transaction through trade fails make a note of the players name and do not try any more trades with that player.

Personally I offer all my high price items through our guild trader because it is good for the guild. The only exception being if someone in a casual guild I am in that I know well is looking for something specific and I have one. They get a price break and/or sometimes I just give the item to them.

Shadzilla · June 2017

Alanar wrote: »

Here's a warning to the ESO community about a current in-game scam.

I was contacted on two successive days by a player who wanted to buy a high-value item (Attunable Blacksmithing Station) but wanted to trade in person to save the guild store fees. I had one on hand, so I agreed. They then grouped with me, met up, I placed the item in the trade window, they put in the gold, and then I submitted and they canceled. This repeated twice (I thought the trade system was glitching as it has in the past) and then I submitted before they put in the gold and they ran off with the item. They then immediately ignored me so I couldn't whisper them and haven't been heard from since.

I know this sort of cheating has gone on in the past, however this player showed a higher degree of sophistication than most. They specifically targeted me because I had a high-value item listed on a top guild trader (ETU on PC / NA), and they messages me on two consecutive days. If they did this once to me, I can only expect that they will continue to do this to others until their crimes catch up with them. For now, I would recommend never trading with strangers directly, and instead using guild stores for sales to avoid scams.

For ZOS, I have reported this player using the in game system, I hope you address this promptly. In either case, I'll report the results of my support experience here as well.

I actually give a lot of people sheeeet for this when trading me, their excuse is its "shadzilla" and they trust me. DON'T CLICK ACCEPT TRADE WITHOUT SEEING THE GOLD FIRST. The amount of times I have had people put a large amount of high priced items in trade and hit accept before I could do the math and put the gold in is ridiculous.

disintegr8 · June 2017

uzbachchi wrote: »

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

Even CoD is not 100% legit either, they could sit on the item for the 3 days before its mailed back, its not as bad as completely losing it but still sucks, also you lose out on the CoD fee as well if it was a high ticket item that could cost quite a bit

Unless it's something cheap I add the COD fee to the gold requested and make sure they know they're getting hit with it so they can opt out before I send it. I'm not eating a huge COD fee if they didn't want to go through the guild trader.

I mostly only trade through guild stores but occasionally I'll see someone looking to buy tempers or mats in text chat and if I am in the mood for some quick gold, I'll trade with them.

I always prefer COD and always take the COD fee into consideration when agreeing on a price. I find that quoting a price "+ COD" can put people off, so I prefer to just quote a price that I feel covers the COD fee as well.

Ruckly · June 2017

Rowjoh wrote: »

I have done some research and this is technically an online scam.

The perpetrator was using a pre-meditated strategy designed to lull victims into a false sense of security to fool them into making this specific error. The fact that there are accomplices and multiple victims and that the item wasn't returned or subsequently paid for proves this.

The thief and accomplices may already have had their accounts terminated - if this had happened in the real world then they would have committed a crime and the ESO 'Code of Conduct' references this:

1.2 The laws that apply in the offline world must be obeyed online as well. We have zero tolerance for illegal behavior on ZeniMax and its affiliates' websites, forums or game environments. We terminate use of the Service and cooperate with law enforcement on such matters.

I imagine everything in the game including everything you think you own on your character belongs to the which ever company you see on your loading screen. So really nothing was taken from said person but is simply a widget moved from data storage a to data storage b.

That said the transaction could fall under intentional psychological grief thus it could be enforced like any other form of intentional psychological grief. In this particular case the perceived loss of the victim may be of a magnitude which warrants reciprocal action.

Megabear · June 2017

This is exactly what people did since Everquest days. This still goes on? I'm sure someone did this in Ultimate Online too but my first MMO was Everquest so.

makerofthings · June 2017

People saying that it is the OP's fault is like saying that someone that was robbed should not of had money in their wallets. The scammer is the villain here not the victim. I thought these forums where jaded before but wow. A new low.

c0rp · June 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

The people advocating this are either trolls or unaware how this scam works.
It is a scam, so can the people saying it's OPs fault please stfu.

The scam goes like:
- Step 1: Both parties place their item in the trade box (non submitted)
- Step 2: The scammer hits submit (his gold is now submitted)
- Step 3: You hit submit
- Step 4: Despite his gold being submitted you recieve no gold

This is a scam. There's a way for him to move remove his gold and still recieve the item without giving you a chance to react.

As others said unless you trust them; Always trade in COD.

That is not how it happens it all. The OP stated how it happened. He clicked submit when his item was submitted and no gold had been presented on the other end after a few "failed attempts". This has been going on for decades in these types of games. New gens see this as a scam. Most old school gamers would see this as "You should have been more careful with what you were doing".

makerofthings · June 2017

c0rp wrote: »

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

The people advocating this are either trolls or unaware how this scam works.
It is a scam, so can the people saying it's OPs fault please stfu.

The scam goes like:
- Step 1: Both parties place their item in the trade box (non submitted)
- Step 2: The scammer hits submit (his gold is now submitted)
- Step 3: You hit submit
- Step 4: Despite his gold being submitted you recieve no gold

This is a scam. There's a way for him to move remove his gold and still recieve the item without giving you a chance to react.

As others said unless you trust them; Always trade in COD.

That is not how it happens it all. The OP stated how it happened. He clicked submit when his item was submitted and no gold had been presented on the other end after a few "failed attempts". This has been going on for decades in these types of games. New gens see this as a scam. Most old school gamers would see this as "You should have been more careful with what you were doing".

So the person who received the item for free after offering said amount of gold ran off? If it was a mistake then said buyer would have opened another trade and given the OP the money as promised. Old school or not, it was dishonest thing to do and blaming the victim is just wrong.