Would ESO have been Viable without PvP?

Rainwhisper · May 2017

My favorite thing about One Tamriel is that it was a huge step in making Elder Scrolls Online feel more like an Elder Scrolls game, with friends, rather than an Elder Scrolls-branded MMO. Housing is another excellent step in that direction.

As anyone who has read my posts on the subject knows, I've hated PvP in every MMO I've played since the days of text MUD's. Nothing about the playstyle or goals of PvP aligns with what I want to get out of an roleplaying game. Likewise, I think of PvP as antithetical to what makes Elder Scrolls games so enjoyable, since those games are about exploring a vast, highly-detailed, socially complex world while building a character who eventually can navigate that world with ease.

Nonetheless, PvP has been available as an option in ESO since launch, and conventional wisdom seems to be that major MMO's have to provide PvP as an option if they want a sufficiently large player base to be financially viable. Unfortunately, as I've seen in every MMO I've played, the challenges of balancing PvP and PvE leave people in both camps frustrated, and those frustrations seem to me to be growing. In addition, the development philosophy of ESO, much to my chagrin, seems to be trending toward greater, not less, integration of PvP with the PvE experience and world.

Obviously this question is hypothetical, since the ship has long-since sailed, but:

Do you think Elder Scrolls Online would have been viable as a PvE-only experience?

Which is to say, if it essentially replicated the experience of playing Skyrim, but with friends, would it have had enough content, activities, options, and experiences to attract and retain a large enough playerbase to be viable long-term?

I genuinely don't know if there are enough players who share my goals and priorities out there to justify the existence of a PvE, open-world, multiplayer RPG. If not, I still wonder if, because of the differences in playstyles, it makes sense to try and integrate in any way the PvE and PvP aspects of the game.

geonsocal · May 2017

great question...personally - without pvp, I would have played the game for maybe six months to a year...going on two years (console) now, and, it's the pvp that keeps me logging in...

Vipstaakki · May 2017

Definitely. I have been here for nearly two years and have never set foot on Cyrodiil. Ever.

Aliyavana · May 2017

Yes, though for other players nope

Koolio · May 2017

I can vouch for about 15-20 people. All of us would be elsewhere without PVP. Especially after 2 years

starlizard70ub17_ESO · May 2017

Yes it would be viable, but they would have to release content more often.

thomas1970b16_ESO · May 2017

Yes.

ShedsHisTail · May 2017

Personally, I think without PvP it could have been better.

Trying to balance a fun PvE experience while keeping the classes comparable in PvP is honestly a drag on both systems. I think if there had been less consideration into PvP balance, we could have ended up with a more interesting PvE game.

One of the big complaints people have/had about this game when it released was that you weren't afforded the same freedoms you had in prior single-player Elder Scrolls games. And if you think about it, many of those freedoms were removed or restricted with PvP in mind. The whole "class" system is a PvP thing, there's no reason for it. Why don't we have spell crafting? PvP, that's why; such a system is virtually impossible to balance.

So, I definitely think the game could have/would have been viable without PvP... but I think it would have appealed to a very different audience.

@Rainwhisper, you say: "I genuinely don't know if there are enough players who share my goals and priorities out there to justify the existence of a PvE, open-world, multiplayer RPG. If not, I still wonder if, because of the differences in playstyles, it makes sense to try and integrate in any way the PvE and PvP aspects of the game."

Skyrim is one of the bestselling games of all time. If this game had more like Skyrim, with the intent of having an entire world complete with cooperative game play, you'd have gotten every Elder Scrolls fan on the globe playing it. ***, people have been trying to figure out make a functional multiplayer Elder Scrolls mod since ESIII: Morrowind.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

For me? Absolutely.

I started playing MMORPG's when there was zero PvP in ANY of them. I'm here for the PvE (though not so much logging in any more that often), and the PvE alone keeps me in all of the MMORPG's that I play.

I don't PvP at all in ANY of my MMO's.

Purely IMO, I don't believe that PvP of any sort should have ever been introduced to MMORPG's.

Agobi · May 2017

Not only viable...but much better,since alot of balance issues would just go away

Everstorm · May 2017

I would rather have a dev team focus on one thing, feels ESO wants to do too many things at once and they all suffer for it.

Asgari · May 2017

Without PVP the game would have been a success but not as hyped as it was with the pvp .. The pvp aspect brought tons of players from other MMO. Without the PVP it would have just been ES lovers

Khyras · May 2017

Game would b much better without PvE.

Stick has two ends.

bebynnag · May 2017

when the game was 1sta nnounced it was the pvp element under the es brand that got me excited - years later (have been playing since console launch) it is still the pvp that keeps me hear

even though i spend most if not all of y time atm in PvE (farming vMA & trials)
it is the knowledge that the next time 'that person' does 'that thing' that infuriates the hell out of me in a trial, i can release my frustration by ganking them in the sewers/dropping a destro ult on their head/ sniping them from a keep/ bombarding them with cold fire catapaults

Avalon · May 2017

I agree, extremely viable. Part of my biggest sorrows for this game stem from the fact that I cannot visit and wander around Cyrodiil without always being concerned that some a**hat with a tiny epeen is going to ambush me with his newest coolest l33t build because he needs the validation. When, I just want to play the game, explore, see all of the sights in the world of Tamriel with some friends, go adventuring and conquer dungeons and all that. Personally, I think the game would be about 50% better if they added a PvE Cyrodiil campaign so that the PvE players could actually enjoy that huge remarkable area of the game.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2017

For me personally, I feel that PvE isn't nearly as immersing as the single player games. How could it? So I might like the a quest story here and there, but many quests don't quite catch me. End-Game, as for VET and HM anything is nice, but as someone who loved TES for the immersion, it was never too much about the difficulty (although it would be bad if everything was too easy) that kept me going. I get bored rather fast when running the same stuff again and again just on a higher difficulty.

Although I was in the beta, I picked up ESO in feb or march last year. Due to bad circumstances I was able to play quite a lot and therefor I have done almost every quest and run all the dungeons. Sure thing, I can do raids and vMA but, like I said, it bores me since the immersion isn't anything near TES 3/4/5. Morrowind's new content really saved it for me right now.

However, I probably would have quit and gone back to SP TES months ago if it wasn't for the PvP that keeps it some kind of fresh and interesting for me.

But if you're purpose is too ask if this game would be better balanced without PvP or even with "outsourced" PvP and seperate balancing attempts, then probably yes. But as it is right now, ESO without PvP would be dead to me, even though I would have come back to see how the xpac is.

ShedsHisTail · May 2017

Khyras wrote: »

Game would b much better without PvE.

Stick has two ends.

This is probably also true.

Having a dev team able to focus on one aspect or another makes it easier to fine tune and hone it into something really great. Like I said above, both systems drag on one another.

That said, without PvE it might have been a very fun fantasy-themed competitive PvP game, but it wouldn't have been an Elder Scrolls game.

Callous2208 · May 2017

I enjoy both aspects but would most likely still play if it were pve only. I find it refreshing that both co-exist though in this game world.

s7732425ub17_ESO · May 2017

No. PVP offers a unique, replayable experience that you just don't get with most of the PVE content in this game.

Sheey · May 2017

Duuuude come down!!! We've had 5 of 8 campanges locked on every faction.

Rohamad_Ali · May 2017

Lord of the Rings is a huge title . Big PVE community . They avoided PVP to make player vs monster characters instead , thinking their gigantic following and the amount of roleplayers would hold the title for years . Now that's a name brand bigger then any other in fantasy ...

They couldn't of been more wrong . Within two years massive boredom and closing of servers despite consistent and large PVE updates . Food for thought . Lesson learned is don't underestimate the amount of PVP players out there . It's more then then a lot of people think .

Justiciar · May 2017

I would have left long ago

DeadlyRecluse · May 2017

Nobody I know would still be around.

Solariken · May 2017

Viable? Definitely.

But player retention would be a huge problem and there would be NOTHING to set ESO apart from the competition and I doubt this game would be considered successful by current market standards. It would just be another niche MMO with its cult following. The Skyrim fanboys would maybe have bought the game but would have bounced within a couple months.

Everyone has their preferred playstyles and game modes - I don't mind a bit of PvE and story but I would prefer that more of the game fell on the Imperial City part of the PvE/PvP design spectrum.

Kodrac · May 2017

Cyrodil is what brought me to the game Even before it launched it's what made me excited for this game. I haven't been there in forever though since they "fixed" the bots and introduced the terrible lag.

Olupajmibanan · May 2017

Removing PvP? Where will be the competition then?

If they remove PvP, only competitive option would be VMA leaderboard. I may sound arrogant but I must prove to myself that I am better than others. Even if I am not actually xD, I just need that feeling.

PvP and VMA are the only places where can I test myself and see how good I am in compare to others.

PvE is programmed, what means it's the same every time you try it. No matter what is your build or such, bosses will always do the same things as usual.

TheStealthDude · May 2017

The only real end game in ESO is PvP.

Dubhliam · May 2017

No.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · May 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lord of the Rings is a huge title . Big PVE community . They avoided PVP to make player vs monster characters instead , thinking their gigantic following and the amount of roleplayers would hold the title for years . Now that's a name brand bigger then any other in fantasy ...

They couldn't of been more wrong . Within two years massive boredom and closing of servers despite consistent and large PVE updates . Food for thought . Lesson learned is don't underestimate the amount of PVP players out there . It's more then then a lot of people think .

I think there are people like me as well. Am I good at pvp? No. Do I call myself a pvper? No. But it is what I do when I'm bored. After I finish quest and what not, and that next dlc is months away? Pvp time.

Im sure most games would rather have you here killing time in pvp besides playing another game. You might not make it back.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2017

It would've been waaaaaaaay better if if were The Elder Scrolls - Online

Meaning, TES game that required you to be online to play, however, this would simply mean playing with no more than 24 ppl on one screen people ever (due to guild size 100 per phase or so) but otherwise it would offer

Play solo (online where ppl can join you or them)
Play Open (max of 3,000)
Play Private Network (max of 3,000) selectively allowed on that open server.

Then that's all PvE and the PvP would simply be a game mode Play PvP with diff game types

This could work better for server issues and also allow them to have a diff PvP game with modes than PvE so as to allow balance and changes and maybe even diff characters but the same account

Rohamad_Ali · May 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Lord of the Rings is a huge title . Big PVE community . They avoided PVP to make player vs monster characters instead , thinking their gigantic following and the amount of roleplayers would hold the title for years . Now that's a name brand bigger then any other in fantasy ...

They couldn't of been more wrong . Within two years massive boredom and closing of servers despite consistent and large PVE updates . Food for thought . Lesson learned is don't underestimate the amount of PVP players out there . It's more then then a lot of people think .

I think there are people like me as well. Am I good at pvp? No. Do I call myself a pvper? No. But it is what I do when I'm bored. After I finish quest and what not, and that next dlc is months away? Pvp time.

Im sure most games would rather have you here killing time in pvp besides playing another game. You might not make it back.

Exactly . An even though this community is fearful to look at it , World of Warcraft . Open world PVP game . Separated with a toggle system to protect PVE and RP players . That's the MMO giant . That's the Goliath no one can beat after a decade and out dated graphics . End game player retention is higher in fully supported PVP MMOs .