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Sorry For Another Nerf Thread, Shuffle Though
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Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Another nerf on that? Why not just scrap Nightblades, then? They don't have alot of shields like sorcs, they can't tank like dragonknights, and they have terrible self-heal in comparisson to Templars. The 15% dodge chance isn't even a guaranteed thing like the main skills the other classes use.
Shields? Cast it, get it.
Resistance buff? Cast it, get it.
Heal? Cast it, get it or get it over time.
Dodge chance? Cast it, pray to RNGesus that the 15% hits with every incoming attack.
Dodge roll, cloak, shade = 3 most OP abilities in a non Heavy armour meta which is upcoming.
Indeed... medium is the best now... for roleplay. I think we play different games.
We do play different games to be honest. You spend all your time dueling the same few people who can't play for *** in BGs/open world, while I played open world and now BGs as well. You still thought dueling was relevant in a meta where you can pressure someone for 10 minutes without going below 85% resources, and the enemy would also not drop below 85% resources while playing on the backfoot for the whole fight. Now that sustain got hit, I've already seen players you duel literally rage quit from cyrodiil and have 10+ deaths in multiple BGs games because they were carried by the game itself.
As for heavy/medium? I made that comment before the patch hit live. BGs I'm performing better in medium than in heavy, sustain is much better and there isn't enough players to make the damage you take in medium too much to handle. Every stam player across all classes I've spoke to has said the same other than you. Open world? I take too much damage in medium, so I'm still running heavy.
You live in the past Cyndis, and it's a shame because you're a great stamblade but your bias towards your own class blinds you from the fact heavy armour and evasion aren't good for the game. I know you also think mag sorcs are currently the most OP class to ever hit ESO while also thinking stamblades are weak as heck, whereas almost every other stamblade thinks the opposite.0 -
wahoozie✭✭✭They could be using other factors as well, there are a few dodge sets that I can think of, like the one that gives 8-10% chance to dodge the next [x?] attack(s) after performing a light attack, and one that increases the dodge roll window by .3 seconds. When stacked with a RNG dodge mechanic like shuffle I imagine they could be pretty effective. I have yet to see any builds that use those though. I'd rather see the RNG taken out and some type of mechanic that gives the caster a predicable defensive mechanic, and some way for an attacker to counter it.0
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rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The theories about passive dodge chance and dodge windows and "great players with great timing" are amusing.
You should see what happens when these "great players" ride by on a horse and you try to attack them. It's dodge, dodge, dodge.... even if you happen to watch them ride in from the horizon and there was no way they quickly dismounted to put up shuffle.
I've caught them hiding somewhere afk.... guess what happens? dodge, dodge, dodge.2 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »@Baconlad ??? Passive dodge chance ??? Proof is where? I would say in my last 2 years playing this game I have never ever noticed it but i spent most of it with major evasion, but in last half year I solo pve a lot (= tanking many mobs) and without evasion (surge OP) and I havent noticed any "passive dodge" whatsoever. Would call myth, at best a bug.
@sodantokb16_ESO
I have observed it as well but the animation isn't actually a dodgeroll but rather your character sidesteps. However, it shows up in combat log as a dodge but is a very subtle animation so it is easy to miss seeing it.
Also Shuffle sucks and is a waste of a slot unless you are a cheating little loser that combines it with subtle use of CE.
Edited by Sureshawt on May 24, 2017 4:56PM1 -
apostate9✭✭✭✭✭Shuffle absolutely overperforms. I would argue that it needs a slight nerf, maybe down a few percent, and/or should be relegated to a certain number of medium armor pieces. It's insane when you can go after someone and have shuffle dodge 3-4 attacks in a row. It's a great skill obviously but I think it just goes to show that's it's clearly a bit over performing when nearly every stam user runs it including tanky heavy armor users who shouldn't even need it. And I say this as a heavy armor user who loves to use it. It's a great skill, maybe it doesn't need to be relegated to medium armor users only, but it's performance needs to be evaluated. Thoughts?
No.
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Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Im sorry my post triggers you bud. But dodge roll is mainly a medium armor thing. Healing/ raw mitigation/ blocking is mainly a heavy armor thing, and bubbles are mainly a light armor thing. (This is all mainly for self defense, of course raid healing may be different in ragards to light armor). To say that dodge rolling is somthing i can do in light armor as a mag build...thats rediculous. You also suggested that my light armord build needs to stack stamina and stamina regen to be able to dodge roll...***, when do you ever see stamina build putting anything into magick? Not very often...without anything in stamina as light armor i can roll dodge and break free one time each in my given pool of stamina.
What i suggest is that in order to reign in stamina builds 1v1 or 1vX, you should have to cast roll dodge when you need it, no more casting an extremely powerful HOT, dodge rolling once and turning around and letting your HOT carry you through 5 seconds of guaranteed offense. Your five second hot would be akin to one cast of harness magick giving a damage shield of 4k every second, 4k that adds together over time if not diminished...and where is my harness skill that does that? Nowhere...because its too powerful.
The issue here is that all of these things that stamina users can stack in order bypass their intended defense mechanic, so that you DONT have to dodge roll. ZOS needs to go back to their roots with this one.
And as far as harness magick getting to shield against stamina attacks, why wouldnt it? It is our intended defense but for a long portion of the game, many players did not use it, which led to all but magsorcs going to heavy armor so that they could mitigate more damage and heal up.
Also my harness magick against a stamina toon is about 8k...and costs 4k magick, i can spam it yes, but while im spamming it through your insane damage im not turning around and hittingbyou offensively or id die. This same principle need to be applied to medium armor users, you want defense, you dodge roll. You still have shuffle, and you still have a minor hot, and you still have those BS troll monster sets.
You arguement is rediculous, and not properly comparitive0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Now if you wantedbto argue how weak the other hots are for stamina, had they removed vigor and left you with a weak 1k/second hot, i might be willing to admit they need a buff on the other heals. But nothing compared to the fire and forget defense skill that is vigor/ shuffle/ two hander burst heal.0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
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But how many times did you observe it. While I would still like some proof If you dont observe it at least once per dungeon run it is either very rare bug or very small chance. Both things make discussing it meaningless because that wont have impact in PVP.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »@Baconlad ??? Passive dodge chance ??? Proof is where? I would say in my last 2 years playing this game I have never ever noticed it but i spent most of it with major evasion, but in last half year I solo pve a lot (= tanking many mobs) and without evasion (surge OP) and I havent noticed any "passive dodge" whatsoever. Would call myth, at best a bug.
I have observed it as well but the animation isn't actually a dodgeroll but rather your character sidesteps. However, it shows up in combat log as a dodge but is a very subtle animation so it is easy to miss seeing it.
Also Shuffle sucks and is a waste of a slot unless you are a cheating little loser that combines it with subtle use of CE.0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭Common go test it yourself. Pull a bunch on weak mobs and sit their, be in medium armor, no shuffle youll see it0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Common go test it yourself. Pull a bunch on weak mobs and sit their, be in medium armor, no shuffle youll see it
Speaking to me? I do it all the time. I play constantly dungeons without shuffle if it happens often enough to be worth mentioning I would notice it. So I would close it as not worth discussing further.
//EDIT:
Just tanked 300 hits without any magical dodge.
Another 300, no dodge.
Aaand another. Pretty small sample, but adding past experience on to it, i will stay with "myth or rare bug" scenarioEdited by SodanTok on May 24, 2017 8:55PM1 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭Im sorry my post triggers you bud. But dodge roll is mainly a medium armor thing. Healing/ raw mitigation/ blocking is mainly a heavy armor thing, and bubbles are mainly a light armor thing. (This is all mainly for self defense, of course raid healing may be different in ragards to light armor). To say that dodge rolling is somthing i can do in light armor as a mag build...thats rediculous. You also suggested that my light armord build needs to stack stamina and stamina regen to be able to dodge roll...***, when do you ever see stamina build putting anything into magick? Not very often...without anything in stamina as light armor i can roll dodge and break free one time each in my given pool of stamina.
What i suggest is that in order to reign in stamina builds 1v1 or 1vX, you should have to cast roll dodge when you need it, no more casting an extremely powerful HOT, dodge rolling once and turning around and letting your HOT carry you through 5 seconds of guaranteed offense. Your five second hot would be akin to one cast of harness magick giving a damage shield of 4k every second, 4k that adds together over time if not diminished...and where is my harness skill that does that? Nowhere...because its too powerful.
The issue here is that all of these things that stamina users can stack in order bypass their intended defense mechanic, so that you DONT have to dodge roll. ZOS needs to go back to their roots with this one.
And as far as harness magick getting to shield against stamina attacks, why wouldnt it? It is our intended defense but for a long portion of the game, many players did not use it, which led to all but magsorcs going to heavy armor so that they could mitigate more damage and heal up.
Also my harness magick against a stamina toon is about 8k...and costs 4k magick, i can spam it yes, but while im spamming it through your insane damage im not turning around and hittingbyou offensively or id die. This same principle need to be applied to medium armor users, you want defense, you dodge roll. You still have shuffle, and you still have a minor hot, and you still have those BS troll monster sets.
You arguement is rediculous, and not properly comparitive
Just learn to play man,i could argue with you and write an 800 words essay but I'm dead tired so I'll just give you one advice: get some more experience before posting.
Anyway 2k17 and crying about shuffle? Lol took it off my stamplar and absolutely no difference. /thread2 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »
But how many times did you observe it. While I would still like some proof If you dont observe it at least once per dungeon run it is either very rare bug or very small chance. Both things make discussing it meaningless because that wont have impact in PVP.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »@Baconlad ??? Passive dodge chance ??? Proof is where? I would say in my last 2 years playing this game I have never ever noticed it but i spent most of it with major evasion, but in last half year I solo pve a lot (= tanking many mobs) and without evasion (surge OP) and I havent noticed any "passive dodge" whatsoever. Would call myth, at best a bug.
I have observed it as well but the animation isn't actually a dodgeroll but rather your character sidesteps. However, it shows up in combat log as a dodge but is a very subtle animation so it is easy to miss seeing it.
Also Shuffle sucks and is a waste of a slot unless you are a cheating little loser that combines it with subtle use of CE.
It is very rare but I've even had it happen in PvP and a number of times while sprinting which makes the animation look really weird. Just a guess but I'm going with a 1-2% chance. It is definitely not myth and giving the unique animation created for it I highly doubt its a bug.
Edited by Sureshawt on May 24, 2017 9:54PM0 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »
But how many times did you observe it. While I would still like some proof If you dont observe it at least once per dungeon run it is either very rare bug or very small chance. Both things make discussing it meaningless because that wont have impact in PVP.sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »@Baconlad ??? Passive dodge chance ??? Proof is where? I would say in my last 2 years playing this game I have never ever noticed it but i spent most of it with major evasion, but in last half year I solo pve a lot (= tanking many mobs) and without evasion (surge OP) and I havent noticed any "passive dodge" whatsoever. Would call myth, at best a bug.
I have observed it as well but the animation isn't actually a dodgeroll but rather your character sidesteps. However, it shows up in combat log as a dodge but is a very subtle animation so it is easy to miss seeing it.
Also Shuffle sucks and is a waste of a slot unless you are a cheating little loser that combines it with subtle use of CE.
It is very rare but I've even had it happen in PvP and a number of times while sprinting which makes the animation look really weird. Just a guess but I'm going with a 1-2% chance. It is definitely not myth and giving the unique animation created for it I highly doubt its a bug.
1% chance would happen faaar too often. If its very rare then it is bug, because there definitely is not some passive 0.1% dodge chance. And again, thats too low to even have any impact.
Anyway, you sure its not the same animation shuffle has?0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shuffle absolutely overperforms. I would argue that it needs a slight nerf, maybe down a few percent, and/or should be relegated to a certain number of medium armor pieces. It's insane when you can go after someone and have shuffle dodge 3-4 attacks in a row. It's a great skill obviously but I think it just goes to show that's it's clearly a bit over performing when nearly every stam user runs it including tanky heavy armor users who shouldn't even need it. And I say this as a heavy armor user who loves to use it. It's a great skill, maybe it doesn't need to be relegated to medium armor users only, but it's performance needs to be evaluated. Thoughts?
No.
Man you really knocked that argument outta there park. What is this word "no?" Did you learn that in school?0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just make it work with 5 piece medium armor and buff it back to 20% no heavy or light armor user should be using it. Comming from a heavy armor user.Power Wealth And Influence.0