Sorry For Another Nerf Thread, Shuffle Though

Vapirko

Shuffle absolutely overperforms. I would argue that it needs a slight nerf, maybe down a few percent, and/or should be relegated to a certain number of medium armor pieces. It's insane when you can go after someone and have shuffle dodge 3-4 attacks in a row. It's a great skill obviously but I think it just goes to show that's it's clearly a bit over performing when nearly every stam user runs it including tanky heavy armor users who shouldn't even need it. And I say this as a heavy armor user who loves to use it. It's a great skill, maybe it doesn't need to be relegated to medium armor users only, but it's performance needs to be evaluated. Thoughts?

Benn G x

It already got nerfed from 20% to 15% chance, but I don't disagree it's ridiculous at times.

Sanctum74

How can you say its not balanced!

Do you know how hard it is to have to press 1 button every 20 seconds and being able to mitigate over 50k damage when focused by multiple attackers and also drain their main resource pool from missed attacks!

Shuffle is completely balanced no heavy sarcasm here XD

Its so effective even magic users started using it, casting it at low cost using the unchained passive.

Definetely needs some further adjustment in my opinion.

Jitterbug

8% Major
2% minor

And it would still be too strong

grim_tactics

I hate to say it, because I think in most cases other classes deserve buffs - not nerfing other classes, but I have to agree.

That percentage has to be off.

It is very irritating having a guy standing right in front of you and the next three abilities all say - miss, miss, miss.

Can't tell you how often this happens when someone isn't even paying attention and just has shuffle up.

Even when dueling with a friend of mine for practice he even thinks the percentage is off cause he runs shuffle.

He just laughs when I get mad because he is literally right in front of me and all these spells just keep "missing".

Seems to me it's closer to 50% (I know that's a bit of an exaggeration) but it works far too good far too often for when it says it should work.

Minno

Wait for Morrowind. You might change your mind.

grim_tactics

Let me also add that even when I use Pirate Skeleton, it works too much.

What's the proc chance, 8%?

When I've ran it in the past, itll proc so much during 1 fight WAAAAAY more than 8%.

QuebraRegra

#makeshufflebuggreatagain

Dracindo

Another nerf on that? Why not just scrap Nightblades, then? They don't have alot of shields like sorcs, they can't tank like dragonknights, and they have terrible self-heal in comparisson to Templars. The 15% dodge chance isn't even a guaranteed thing like the main skills the other classes use.

Shields? Cast it, get it.
Resistance buff? Cast it, get it.
Heal? Cast it, get it or get it over time.
Dodge chance? Cast it, pray to RNGesus that the 15% hits with every incoming attack.

Docmandu

Benn G x wrote: »

It already got nerfed from 20% to 15% chance, but I don't disagree it's ridiculous at times.

Keep in mind... it's in ZOS units!

Waffennacht

It's only OP when combined with cheat engine

Neloth

In my opinion, it should be set back to 20% (as before nerf), but have 0 dodge chance when you CCed.

It's ridiculous and stupid when a guy, knocked on the ground dodges all your attacks.

DHale

Lame post in three years every nerf has made the game worse not better. Any good player knows there are un-dodgeable abilities so use them. It's already been nerfed. With the new resource nerfs using this expensive skill you will be unlikely to keep it up all the time. Solo players need to be able to have tools to fight hordes of baddies. With all Snares roots and slows need abilities like shuffle.

KingJ

Frfr shuffle should be put back to 25% with all the undodgeable abilities medium armor needs this.Medium armor is the only defense in the game that can be bypassed.Their no abilities that can go through shields or block.Why do we have abilities that go through dodge roll.

Benn G x

Neloth wrote: »

In my opinion, it should be set back to 20% (as before nerf), but have 0 dodge chance when you CCed.

It's ridiculous and stupid when a guy, knocked on the ground dodges all your attacks.

That's a pretty good idea tbh, and makes sense.

Having someone in your talons and they still dodge everything is just plain stupid.

Stamicka

Shuffle only needs a Nerf for light and heavy armor users, it should be tied to having 5 pieces of medium armor on and any other armor type should not have it available. I do not think the skill is over preforming though, the dodge percentage is correct, you only have a 15% chance to dodge the attack but if you are being attacked by other things in that dodging time frame, the other attacks miss you as well.

Does this make it OP? Not really, it does scale better than shields when you are outnumbered but that isn't cause for a Nerf. Keep in mind that shields are not critable, can be casted as long as your resources allow, and can be stacked for 5 seconds of upwards of 50k damage mitigation. Shuffle gives you about 1 second of 100% damage mitigation, however high that damage may be for about every 7 times you take damage. So to get the full effect out of it, you need a lot of incoming attacks. In short shields give a longer duration of limited damage mitigation, and shuffle gives a short duration of unlimited damage mitigation. If it's tied to medium armor I think it would be balanced.

Izaki

I think... That Shuffle should stop being active after you dodged something with it...

Hutch679

Sanctum74 wrote: »

How can you say its not balanced!

Do you know how hard it is to have to press 1 button every 20 seconds and being able to mitigate over 50k damage when focused by multiple attackers and also drain their main resource pool from missed attacks!

Shuffle is completely balanced no heavy sarcasm here XD

Its so effective even magic users started using it, casting it at low cost using the unchained passive.

Definetely needs some further adjustment in my opinion.

I've considered using it on my magicka sorc. I already use the stamina immovable potions. Basically hit shuffle, after the cc immunity wears off hit immovable potion, get enough stamina back to hit shuffle again when that wears off lol essentially immune to cc. GG

Hutch679

Minno wrote: »

Wait for Morrowind. You might change your mind.

Elaborate?

DeHei

With Morrorwind you really need to think about using that skill, because your sustain will allready very low.. I dont like that skill, but it dont need a nerf again..

Vapirko

DHale wrote: »

Lame post in three years every nerf has made the game worse not better. Any good player knows there are un-dodgeable abilities so use them. It's already been nerfed. With the new resource nerfs using this expensive skill you will be unlikely to keep it up all the time. Solo players need to be able to have tools to fight hordes of baddies. With all Snares roots and slows need abilities like shuffle.

Well let's be honest, CC spam is out of control and we are getting some dodge roll immunity. I think a lot of people agree that it does not at all seem like a 15% proc but much closer to 30% or more.

KingJ wrote: »

Frfr shuffle should be put back to 25% with all the undodgeable abilities medium armor needs this.Medium armor is the only defense in the game that can be bypassed.Their no abilities that can go through shields or block.Why do we have abilities that go through dodge roll.

Thats fine, I'd be ok with shuffle as a 5pc medium armor only ability. Its also very likely medium armor will be in next patch. Or at least more of a split between heavy and medium users.

Benn G x

Hutch679 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

How can you say its not balanced!

Do you know how hard it is to have to press 1 button every 20 seconds and being able to mitigate over 50k damage when focused by multiple attackers and also drain their main resource pool from missed attacks!

Shuffle is completely balanced no heavy sarcasm here XD

Its so effective even magic users started using it, casting it at low cost using the unchained passive.

Definetely needs some further adjustment in my opinion.

I've considered using it on my magicka sorc. I already use the stamina immovable potions. Basically hit shuffle, after the cc immunity wears off hit immovable potion, get enough stamina back to hit shuffle again when that wears off lol essentially immune to cc. GG

That's something I've been considering myself, using the Stam immovables instead, I do like the major intellect though maybe I'll try tri pots.

KingJ

Vapirko wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Lame post in three years every nerf has made the game worse not better. Any good player knows there are un-dodgeable abilities so use them. It's already been nerfed. With the new resource nerfs using this expensive skill you will be unlikely to keep it up all the time. Solo players need to be able to have tools to fight hordes of baddies. With all Snares roots and slows need abilities like shuffle.

Well let's be honest, CC spam is out of control and we are getting some dodge roll immunity. I think a lot of people agree that it does not at all seem like a 15% proc but much closer to 30% or more.

KingJ wrote: »

Frfr shuffle should be put back to 25% with all the undodgeable abilities medium armor needs this.Medium armor is the only defense in the game that can be bypassed.Their no abilities that can go through shields or block.Why do we have abilities that go through dodge roll.

Thats fine, I'd be ok with shuffle as a 5pc medium armor only ability. Its also very likely medium armor will be in next patch. Or at least more of a split between heavy and medium users.

Trust me heavy will still better than light and medium for most builds next patch Zos nerfed sustain not damage and damage is going up next patch.Proc sets and other things going to make medium really hard.

glavius

grim_tactics wrote: »

I hate to say it, because I think in most cases other classes deserve buffs - not nerfing other classes, but I have to agree.

That percentage has to be off.

It is very irritating having a guy standing right in front of you and the next three abilities all say - miss, miss, miss.

Can't tell you how often this happens when someone isn't even paying attention and just has shuffle up.

Even when dueling with a friend of mine for practice he even thinks the percentage is off cause he runs shuffle.

He just laughs when I get mad because he is literally right in front of me and all these spells just keep "missing".

Seems to me it's closer to 50% (I know that's a bit of an exaggeration) but it works far too good far too often for when it says it should work.

Miss miss miss=meridia armor set, not shuffle

Omnipresent

wouldnt making shuffle a 5 piece med armor requirment be helping the situation?

Hutch679

Benn G x wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

How can you say its not balanced!

Do you know how hard it is to have to press 1 button every 20 seconds and being able to mitigate over 50k damage when focused by multiple attackers and also drain their main resource pool from missed attacks!

Shuffle is completely balanced no heavy sarcasm here XD

Its so effective even magic users started using it, casting it at low cost using the unchained passive.

Definetely needs some further adjustment in my opinion.

I've considered using it on my magicka sorc. I already use the stamina immovable potions. Basically hit shuffle, after the cc immunity wears off hit immovable potion, get enough stamina back to hit shuffle again when that wears off lol essentially immune to cc. GG

That's something I've been considering myself, using the Stam immovables instead, I do like the major intellect though maybe I'll try tri pots.

I have 1950 magica regen (using witches brew), but only 10k stamina. Using shuffle and uses half my stamp pool, but I don't have to use break free because the immunity. When the immunity ends I can hit an immovable pot, my stam goes to full, and I can hit shuffle again once the pot ends. Gives me time to get my burst off as a dw sorc (4 seconds). This is only theory right now as I have not tried it. Would make surviving with only hardened ward easier though.

a1i3nz

How is it OP when the classes that use it have no shields?
It's not bugged anymore either. There's worse things to complain about.

Rianai

I guess the issue with shuffle is, that it is pure rng and rng and a "skill" based combat system doesn't fit together very well.

Hutch679 wrote: »

I have 1950 magica regen (using witches brew), but only 10k stamina. Using shuffle and uses half my stamp pool, but I don't have to use break free because the immunity. When the immunity ends I can hit an immovable pot, my stam goes to full, and I can hit shuffle again once the pot ends. Gives me time to get my burst off as a dw sorc (4 seconds). This is only theory right now as I have not tried it. Would make surviving with only hardened ward easier though.

Doesn't shuffle grant immunity to snares and immobilize only and not to hard cc like stuns?

SodanTok

Misses 4 attacks in a row -> Gotta QQ on forum
Hits 4 attacks in a row -> It is fine!

Shuffle is actually so bad after Morrowind that it will perform much better on nonMedium builds. Right now the best thing is softCC immunity, but medium builds will get it very often by dodge rolling. Making shuffle mostly skill that gives you slight chance to dodge that 1 light attack you haven't dodged yourself.

But if people are so triggered by jackpot shuffle procs I am all for rework. Something like 25% undodgeable damage mitigation would work good with medium. Obviously would anger all those heavy armor dudes.

TheStealthDude

Omnipresent wrote: »

wouldnt making shuffle a 5 piece med armor requirment be helping the situation?

Do this for all 3 armor abilities for their respective armor types.

Hutch679

Rianai wrote: »

I guess the issue with shuffle is, that it is pure rng and rng and a "skill" based combat system doesn't fit together very well.

Hutch679 wrote: »

I have 1950 magica regen (using witches brew), but only 10k stamina. Using shuffle and uses half my stamp pool, but I don't have to use break free because the immunity. When the immunity ends I can hit an immovable pot, my stam goes to full, and I can hit shuffle again once the pot ends. Gives me time to get my burst off as a dw sorc (4 seconds). This is only theory right now as I have not tried it. Would make surviving with only hardened ward easier though.

Doesn't shuffle grant immunity to snares and immobilize only and not to hard cc like stuns?

Not sure. I was assuming it was all cc. I'll have to research more. I use shuffle on my stamp dk but he ha's been hanging in the closet for some time now and I can't really remember tbh. Lol.