because zos dont git it.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos already started homogenizing skills last update, continued this update. The devs have turned their back on build diversity.

Well that can't be right.

They claimed the nerfs to sustain were to promote build diversity.

They claimed the changes to procs and passives was to promote build diversity.

What they have actually done is significantly reduced player choice when it comes to build and gear.

Of course, we told them this, literally hundreds of times on the PTS and Morrowind Beta Forums.
We told them day after day, after day, after day.

And they chose to ignore us either because they are so arrogant they don't care about player feedback or (and I genuinely think this is more likely) they are so incompetent they didn't truly understand the implications of the changes they were making.

This is, I fear, especially true of Mr Wrobel, who is so obviously so far out of his depth we really should call the coastguard to come rescue him.

All The Best

M0bi · May 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

players like me that only had average builds got ripped to pieces. All my poor little mag NBs are trash now, hate to even look at my templar healers.

Me in a nutshell right now, also have a templar healer

The change has pushed my altmer over the edge and he has developed a very unhealthy dependency on potions....

Agalloch · May 2017

ESO has become Heavt Attacks Online ..

Stamina DK is ..b...*** now... when try to solo group things.

We will adapt..future will tell .

And yes ..we want diversity but not by nerfing players .

We want our freedom back.

Flameheart · May 2017

vamp_emily wrote: »

I think their solution to lag is:

1: Make everyone use heavy attacks ( reducing information traveling from server to clients )

I had the same thoughts. Maybe in truth the changes to combat and CP system are just there for lowering calculation effort and taking pressure from server-client communication in hope to increase performance overall (because they are bottlenecked at moment and tried already all other available options).

...and now shut up and do more heavy attacking :-)

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

That is the problem. You cant create build diversity. Because something will always be best.

That's a problem made worse by only having 10 skills to choose from at any time.

In games with more skill bars (WoW, LotRO, SWtOR) build viability is impacted much more by Player Skill (knowing when to use which skill to best effect) than in games like ESO and Wildstar that have much more limited skill bar sets.

In ESO I would estimate that 80-90% of a given build's viability is down to Gear/Skill Bar and only 10-20% is down to Player Skill. That is not to disparage players, that 10-20% can make ALL the difference in high end content.

But what that means is, as you said, there is always something that is "best" - almost regardless of player input.

And ZOS have demonstrated time and time again that they can not do fine tuning "balancing" to narrow the gap between "best" and "rest". They always use the sledgehammer approach, and totally throw everything off whack, and then it takes a few months for the new "best" to become commonplace, and the whole cycle starts again.

Smaller, more frequent, less extreme "balancing" patches would instead narrow the gap in a meaningful way and slowly, but surely, bring more sustainable balance and so build diversity. ZOS have chosen, in their arrogance and incompetence, to not do that.

In SWTOR my chosen build is apparently 15% below where it needs to be for Master Mode or higher content DPS. But I have tweaked my gear to better suit my playstyle, and I have mixed up the "meta" rotation a bit to better suit how I do things and now I am not only on par with the other DPSers I run with, but I'm better than some of them who - according to theorycrafters - are just automatically better than me.

That is down to much greater skill bar diversity. It is much more about knowing how, when and where to use any given skill than it is in ESO.

In ESO the fact that there is for any game version a "best" that is so much better than the rest is 100% caused by ZOS game design choices.

All The Best

zaria · May 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Diversity is created by the player, not by ZOS. But at the same time there´s no logic in nerfing stuff just because it´s considered BiS atm.

That is the problem. You cant create build diversity. Because something will always be best. And those that want to be 'best' will spend the time getting that set. Then it will get nerfed because statics show that whatever set is being worn by a large percentage of the player base. And the circle continues.

Now add that the theorycrafting is too complex and time consuming for most players so lots will use popular build as they tend to work better than that they came up with themselves.
So one setup might be 1% better than second and players will go for that, nerf it 5% and players will jump to second.

Casterial · May 2017

None of my builds changed.
I even have a Breton stamplar. I honestly don't get people. There was no real nerfs, most people built so hard on CP they made them selves use a wheel chair for so long, they crippled their own characters. When I came back (from 2015 to now) I started again in May, I switched all my builds to be strong in no CP, when I exit no CP my builds are amazingly strong because CP was a huge bonus.

also, build diversity is still there, you just need to use the right gear, right glyphs, and play your way. Tweak your build correctly.

also, those complaining about templar heals: What? in NO CP I heal 10-15k still. Per BOL.

Marto · May 2017

How exactly is build diversity dead?

I'm seeing less and less Hundings+VO+Velidreth builds with each day. People are experimenting with stuff like Bone Pirate, 5x VO, using 1 infused weapon instead of none...

The nerf to BSW brought Silks of The Sun back to the spotlight. The arrival of Warmaiden is a rather interesting change. The new trial sets are also great for nightblades.

The changes to CP to revolve around direct/dot damage rather than mighty/elemental expert is a huge buff to hybrid builds.

Stamina still has a diversity problem, yes. But this patch made it BETTER, not worse. Was it enough? Not really.
But to cry about diversity because of this patch is quite ridiculous.

Mordenkainen · May 2017

Plot Twist.

Remove Penetration.

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

Marto wrote: »

How exactly is build diversity dead?

I'm seeing less and less Hundings+VO+Velidreth builds with each day. People are experimenting with stuff like Bone Pirate, 5x VO, using 1 infused weapon instead of none...

The nerf to BSW brought Silks of The Sun back to the spotlight. The arrival of Warmaiden is a rather interesting change. The new trial sets are also great for nightblades.

The changes to CP to revolve around direct/dot damage rather than mighty/elemental expert is a huge buff to hybrid builds.

Stamina still has a diversity problem, yes. But this patch made it BETTER, not worse. Was it enough? Not really.
But to cry about diversity because of this patch is quite ridiculous.

Am I crying? Or did I offer genuine feedback egarding the direction of recent updates and their impact. As well as offer solutions

notimetocare · May 2017

Was going to take this seriously, then I saw who the OP was...

There is a difference between viable and meta. ZoS doesn't pidgon hole the endgame, players do.

There are tons of viable sets, what wannabes like the OP want is best (to cover their lack of skill) and that will ALWAYS be one or two setups

M0bi · May 2017

PS4 tho....

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

notimetocare wrote: »

Was going to take this seriously, then I saw who the OP was...

There is a difference between viable and meta. ZoS doesn't pidgon hole the endgame, players do.

There are tons of viable sets, what wannabes like the OP want is best (to cover their lack of skill) and that will ALWAYS be one or two setups

I main stamina templar puahing a solid 42k+ dps. I also have a well performing meta build magdk. So much for assuming, did you even read my post or did you come here to puke up arrogance?

Wait,. Nevermind.

Balamoor · May 2017

I miss the days when the Average twenty-something could spell, "Get".

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

Balamoor wrote: »

I miss the days when the Average twenty-something could spell, "Get".

Or could comprehend basic math and problem solving.

TamrielSaviour215 · May 2017

So I have not been into MMOs for long but I love ESO. I also think that people underestimate how difficult it is to balance things out. If you look at games like Battlefield 1, there are weapons that could kill you with one shot to the foot. That got nerfed and people lost their minds. That is an FPS where math doesn't matter. When you put all the math into MMOs, it can be very difficult to find balance. One adjustment one way and its super overpowered. One adjustment the other way, its useless. When you integrate all the ways passives and gear can help other skills it makes it difficult to find that perfect balance. I understand the arguments but I honestly believe OVERALL Zos has done a decent job avoiding making a universally OP build. I think when they say 'variety' at this point, they don't want everyone using the same exact build. For example, FPS like CoD and BF1, everyone uses the same OP'd guns once unlocked and it defeats the purpose of being unique. I know people will completely pick this apart, but IMO I am ok with how things are at the moment.

Ep1kMalware · May 2017

TamrielSaviour215 wrote: »

So I have not been into MMOs for long but I love ESO. I also think that people underestimate how difficult it is to balance things out. If you look at games like Battlefield 1, there are weapons that could kill you with one shot to the foot. That got nerfed and people lost their minds. That is an FPS where math doesn't matter. When you put all the math into MMOs, it can be very difficult to find balance. One adjustment one way and its super overpowered. One adjustment the other way, its useless. When you integrate all the ways passives and gear can help other skills it makes it difficult to find that perfect balance. I understand the arguments but I honestly believe OVERALL Zos has done a decent job avoiding making a universally OP build. I think when they say 'variety' at this point, they don't want everyone using the same exact build. For example, FPS like CoD and BF1, everyone uses the same OP'd guns once unlocked and it defeats the purpose of being unique. I know people will completely pick this apart, but IMO I am ok with how things are at the moment.

I think you're way on point here. As other have mentioned smaller incremental adjustments would be ideal in this regard as opposed to massive (and over the top) kneejerk reactions. Reactions that are often uninvited in the first place.

Smaller adjustments allows oppertunities for feedback, and a more analytical approach to tracking "OPness" in the game. But this is wishful thinking.

Bouldercleave · May 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Zos already started homogenizing skills last update, continued this update. The devs have turned their back on build diversity.

Players have turned their back on diversity, not the Devs.

There are TONS of viable and situational options out there - the player base in general is so focused on min/maxing and getting that last .00005% DPS that diversity doesn't have a chance.

The reason that everyone runs spriggans? It's BiS. You can't have more than 1 BiS, hence the "B" (stands for BEST in case you didn't know).

apostate9 · May 2017

Qbiken wrote: »

Diversity is created by the player, not by ZOS. But at the same time there´s no logic in nerfing stuff just because it´s considered BiS atm.

Actually...there is logic to it. If one looks at it logically. Something that is FAR AND AWAY the BIS gets nerfed. Now it may or may not be BIS. Or if BIS, not by enough to make it so compelling you can't choose to try something else.

It's dead simple.