New Jump Points on almost every CP star - read before reassigning your CP

t3hdubzy · May 2017

I love the lack of response from game devs

max_only · May 2017

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Some stars only take 23 points to get to 10% instead of the 43 points they were supposedly changed to, same as before patch. Is that intentional?

Yes, it is called front loading, makes it matter less that you have more cp.

But only some of them are "front loaded"... I thought it was supposed to be all of them

Gamanoid · May 2017

max_only wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Some stars only take 23 points to get to 10% instead of the 43 points they were supposedly changed to, same as before patch. Is that intentional?

Yes, it is called front loading, makes it matter less that you have more cp.

But only some of them are "front loaded"... I thought it was supposed to be all of them

Are you sure they have the same max value? 15/25/35% have different frontloading proportions to get to 10%, so you can't have a generic "23 points to get to 10%" statement without comparing the same max valued nodes.

TheNorthernDragon · May 2017

@Alcast has a post about this, and a CP calculator: https://alcasthq.com/eso-championpoints-jumppoints/

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2017

max_only wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

Some stars only take 23 points to get to 10% instead of the 43 points they were supposedly changed to, same as before patch. Is that intentional?

Yes, it is called front loading, makes it matter less that you have more cp.

But only some of them are "front loaded"... I thought it was supposed to be all of them

All of them are front loaded, as the other poster pointed out, but there are some that are 15% and take 100cp, there are some that are 25% and 100cp and there is one that is 55% and takes 100cp to max out, you can see why it takes different amounts of cp to reach 10% when 10% of 15% is different then 10% of 25 or 55%.

TerraDewBerry · May 2017

ZOS really needs to give us a cheap CP point redistribution option like they did for skill points. The changes they have made are extensive and difficult to really get a grasp on (at least they were for me). I already paid 3000 gold to redistribute my points and I hope I did them correctly, but what if I still need to tweak some things? I have to pay 3000 gold every time? Please, ZOS reconsider giving everyone a little time to work out how the CP changes will play out for their builds. If we're being able to test out builds with cheap skill point resets, shouldn't we also be able to see how different changes in CP might impact those builds? We need the same deal for CP as you gave us for skill points.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2017

TheNorthernDragon wrote: »

@Alcast has a post about this, and a CP calculator: https://alcasthq.com/eso-championpoints-jumppoints/

Is there a list somewhere showing which CP skills are 15/25/35%?

AcadianPaladin · May 2017

@TheRealPotoroo

I think this is pretty close to accurate. May be missing a couple -

100 points = +15%.
Hardy, Elemenal Defender, Quick Recovery, Siphoner, Mooncalf, Arcanist, Health, Tenacity, Tumbling, Blessed, Elemental Expert, Mighty.

100 points = +25%.
Ironclad, Thickskin, Bastion, Warlord, Shadowward, Elfbain, Shattering blows, Master at Arms, Thaumatage, Precise Strikes.

100 points = +35%:
Expert Defender, Sprinter, Bashing focus, Shade, Physical Weapons Expert, Staff Expert.

100 points = +55%: Befoul.

100 points = +5280:
Spell shield, Light armor focus, Medium armor focus, Heavy armor focus. Spell erosion, Piercing.

100 points = +1650: Resistant.

R_K · May 2017

For anyone who writes software, you can pretty much guess what's happening behind the scenes in the game's code...

Instead of something like this:

...
float cpThaumaturge = getPlayerCP("Thaumaturge");
return PuncturingSweepsDamage * ( 1 + ( cpThaumaturge / 100 ) );
...

There's likely something like this:

...
int cpThaumaturge = getPlayerCP("Thaumaturge");
return PuncturingSweepsDamage * ( 1 + ( cpThaumaturge / 100 ) );
...

A simple error such as this could lead to the undocumented "jump point" rounding errors being discussed here. Hopefully, at some point, a developer at ZOS will stumble upon these errors and simply refactor the variable(s) to use floating point instead of integer.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2017

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@TheRealPotoroo

I think this is pretty close to accurate. May be missing a couple -

100 points = +15%.
Hardy, Elemenal Defender, Quick Recovery, Siphoner, Mooncalf, Arcanist, Health, Tenacity, Tumbling, Blessed, Elemental Expert, Mighty.

100 points = +25%.
Ironclad, Thickskin, Bastion, Warlord, Shadowward, Elfbain, Shattering blows, Master at Arms, Thaumatage, Precise Strikes.

100 points = +35%:
Expert Defender, Sprinter, Bashing focus, Shade, Physical Weapons Expert, Staff Expert.

100 points = +55%: Befoul.

100 points = +5280:
Spell shield, Light armor focus, Medium armor focus, Heavy armor focus. Spell erosion, Piercing.

100 points = +1650: Resistant.

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

Zyrudin · May 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

Hardy and Elemental Defender, but you can and should also put some amount in Ironclad and Thick Skin, because you may double-dip that way.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

Hardy and Elemental Defender, but you can and should also put some amount in Ironclad and Thick Skin, because you may double-dip that way.

OK, but why?

Zyrudin · May 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

Hardy and Elemental Defender, but you can and should also put some amount in Ironclad and Thick Skin, because you may double-dip that way.

OK, but why?

Why?

We'll with Hardy you're mitigating all physical types of damage, with Elemental Defender you're mitigating all magic types of damage, with Ironclad you're mitigating all direct attack damage and with Thick Skin you're mitigating all Damage over Time damage. You are able to mitigate further this way with less points, no?

Wolfenbelle · May 2017

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

@TheRealPotoroo

I think this is pretty close to accurate. May be missing a couple -

100 points = +15%.
Hardy, Elemenal Defender, Quick Recovery, Siphoner, Mooncalf, Arcanist, Health, Tenacity, Tumbling, Blessed, Elemental Expert, Mighty.

100 points = +25%.
Ironclad, Thickskin, Bastion, Warlord, Shadowward, Elfbain, Shattering blows, Master at Arms, Thaumatage, Precise Strikes.

100 points = +35%:
Expert Defender, Sprinter, Bashing focus, Shade, Physical Weapons Expert, Staff Expert.

100 points = +55%: Befoul.

100 points = +5280:
Spell shield, Light armor focus, Medium armor focus, Heavy armor focus. Spell erosion, Piercing.

100 points = +1650: Resistant.

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

@TheRealPotoroo, this video might help. Sherman does a very good job of explaining where to spend CP for various roles and why. It's a somewhat long video, but he covers a lot of information. I used his info as a basis for making my decisions since math is most definitely not my strength.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=UZ2r_HsBFfw

Potenza · May 2017

Thank you for pointing it out OP. Because I did read that post before hand but when I got in game I thought from the tool tip that putting in one point was giving me like .06 % per point for example - but its really not.

Need to revisit my champ points and yes 75 looks like the new 100.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Potenza wrote: »

Thank you for pointing it out OP. Because I did read that post before hand but when I got in game I thought from the tool tip that putting in one point was giving me like .06 % per point for example - but its really not.

Need to revisit my champ points and yes 75 looks like the new 100.

That's been kind of my take on all of this.

According to the Patch Notes (and what I experienced on the PTS):

If they balanced and front-loaded the CP values so that at 50CP spent, you will have received 75% of the total bonus out of any given CP Star, then what's the point of spending any CP past 50 points?

ZOS has really shot themselves in the foot with this horribly managed, ill-planned out Update.

Minno · May 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

Hardy and Elemental Defender, but you can and should also put some amount in Ironclad and Thick Skin, because you may double-dip that way.

OK, but why?

Why?

We'll with Hardy you're mitigating all physical types of damage, with Elemental Defender you're mitigating all magic types of damage, with Ironclad you're mitigating all direct attack damage and with Thick Skin you're mitigating all Damage over Time damage. You are able to mitigate further this way with less points, no?

56 into ironclad and 19 into Hardy will get you around 25% mitigation for a direct physical DMG ability. That means 75 points total to get 25% which used to cost you 73 points to get 20% in Hardy and another 20 points to get around 10% off thick skin (but no direct DMG mitigation).

This new system is better.

Izaki · May 2017

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I don't think Jump Points were ever intended...

Well, if you are saying that "jump points" are not deliberte, that would mean the Dev team are wholly incompetent.

If they are deliberate then the Dev team has been lying to the playerbase.

Not a particularly favourable dilemma to be on the horns of.

All The Best

Indeed.

Celas_Dranacea · May 2017

I just usually take the square of the hypotenuse divided by banana - don't see the problem here

Bryong9ub17_ESO · May 2017

So for the idiots like myself. You all are saying don't invest more than 50/75 points in a star?

Asardes · May 2017

Then I wasn't just imagining things when I was assigning those points on Monday evening. I haven't put more than 60 in any given star and for most of them I stopped at 50. And for the most part I kept putting points past 30 just to get at some passives like treasure hunter. Overall the system seems a bit shoddy. They could have found better front loaded functions to spread them out and then only round the actual tooltips and real values.

Minno · May 2017

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I just usually take the square of the hypotenuse divided by banana - don't see the problem here

A function of the Dirty Elf. :P

NewBlacksmurf · May 2017

R_K wrote: »

For anyone who writes software, you can pretty much guess what's happening behind the scenes in the game's code...

Instead of something like this:

...
float cpThaumaturge = getPlayerCP("Thaumaturge");
return PuncturingSweepsDamage * ( 1 + ( cpThaumaturge / 100 ) );
...

There's likely something like this:

...
int cpThaumaturge = getPlayerCP("Thaumaturge");
return PuncturingSweepsDamage * ( 1 + ( cpThaumaturge / 100 ) );
...

A simple error such as this could lead to the undocumented "jump point" rounding errors being discussed here. Hopefully, at some point, a developer at ZOS will stumble upon these errors and simply refactor the variable(s) to use floating point instead of integer.

I doubt it's an error cause it's always been this way at least for a year. Now maybe prior it wasn't this way but I did a race change on Xbox one and upon resetting my CP waaay back when it was 531 or so, I noticed an obvious difference at a full % on certain % so upon following Deltia's article I came across this and adjusted accordingly on m Alts.

With the changes today, it seems many are more aware due to the redesign and greater diminishing returns.

I don't even consider this to be some special understanding as it was written on a few guides suggesting to only place X number of points into certain CP with explanations of why

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

Bryong9ub17_ESO wrote: »

So for the idiots like myself. You all are saying don't invest more than 50/75 points in a star?

Pretty much.

As I said above; ZOS has front-loaded the CP values per point spent in any single CP Star (thus increasing the rate of diminishment per CP point spent. They also readjusted the CP Star value allocations to more fit within a 100CP scale, so that a Player will only ever get the maximum attainable value at 100CP spent in any one star.

This means (and ZOS even says it in their very own patch notes); once you have spent 50Cp in any single Star, you have received a total of 75% of the maximum attainable benefit of that CP Star.

Thus; every point you spend after the initial 50CP, will only net you an additional 25% benefit. That's 50 valuable CP, that only nets you another possible 25% of benefit.

Figure that in with the new "adjusted" maximum possible values for the various different stars, and the truth of how badly they nerfed Players utilizing the CP system becomes very apparent.

MLGProPlayer · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

And where exactly is your proof that these jump points exist?

They've been in the game since champion points were introduced...

MLGProPlayer · May 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

Is this what Rich, I believe it was Rich, was explaining about the new CP on ESO Live; he said that anything after 50 points diminished returns became much more severe. They said they wanted players to start putting points in multiple locations, so they front-loaded the system.

No. Diminishing returns and jump points are two different things.

Jump points = you don't get any benefit between jump points (i.e. going from CP 75 to 99 won't give you any benefit)

Diminishing returns = the benefit of a new point gets lower the higher your level is (i.e. going from CP 1 to 50 will give more benefit per point than going from CP 50 to 100)

Celas_Dranacea · May 2017

Minno wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I just usually take the square of the hypotenuse divided by banana - don't see the problem here

A function of the Dirty Elf. :P

Lol @Minno I see that we are both intent on contributing productively to this conversation

Minno · May 2017

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

I just usually take the square of the hypotenuse divided by banana - don't see the problem here

A function of the Dirty Elf. :P

Lol @Minno I see that we are both intent on contributing productively to this conversation

I accept jump points. But I also support any changes that reflect true matching to the tool tip values.

Basically whatever floats people's boat.

TheRealPotoroo · May 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

TheRealPotoroo wrote: »

TY. Now, this is the sort of thing that I struggle to make sense of:

15%
Hardy: Reduces Poison, Disease and Physical Damage dealt to you by [x]%.
Elemental Defender: Reduces Flame, Frost, Shock and Magic Damage dealt to you by [x]%.

35%
Expert Defender: Reduces damage taken from Light and Heavy Attacks by [x]%

My main is a tank. Which of the above is more useful and (this is the crucial bit for non-game theorists like me), how do you know?

Hardy and Elemental Defender, but you can and should also put some amount in Ironclad and Thick Skin, because you may double-dip that way.

OK, but why?

Why?

We'll with Hardy you're mitigating all physical types of damage, with Elemental Defender you're mitigating all magic types of damage, with Ironclad you're mitigating all direct attack damage and with Thick Skin you're mitigating all Damage over Time damage. You are able to mitigate further this way with less points, no?

An NPC swings a sword at you. What's not clear to me is why 15% max mitigation from Hardy is more useful the 35% max mitigation from Expert Defender. That's the sort of question that does my head in.

Violynne · May 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

I don't think Jump Points were ever intended...

They were intended.

The entire purpose of the CP system is to speed bump players from achieving ridiculous numbers, leading to a massive tilt of those with the points and those without.

You can also bet there's a tremendous amount of math going on behind the scenes to act as limiters to prevent people from taking advantage of these jump points.