Massive hidden nerf to Stamina Wardens that people need to see

MakoFore · May 2017

funny how people get upset about something they never had. stamina warden was much stronger than magicka- theyhavent ruined anything they've just made what was crap, less crappy, and what was already strong, still strong. settle back down fella

OdinForge · May 2017

Enjoy your $40 class.

-Wrobel

Turelus · May 2017

Without actually caring about DPS numbers.

This is a bad change simply because classes shouldn't have passives which are only useful to a specific playstyle. It doesn't have to be greatly beneficial but there shouldn't be a case where not buying a passive is a choice.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

MakoFore wrote: »

funny how people get upset about something they never had. stamina warden was much stronger than magicka- theyhavent ruined anything they've just made what was crap, less crappy, and what was already strong, still strong. settle back down fella

It was better than magicka

But magicka is just better support than stamina? Should they nerf magicka support options to buff stamina ones?

Stam warden was better but stam dk is just better than stam warden, better sustain, better heals.

Could of buffed magicka warden without nerfing stamina when it just wasn't needed.

Anti_Virus · May 2017

Terrible change I was ready to play stamina warden but now this just kills me.

Anti_Virus · May 2017

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

That skill tree also does magic damage and has more animal companion skills available to magic warden.

Nemesis7884 · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I really hope they add it back, reduce them all to like 4-5% if you must.

Also add effects that actually beneficial to stamina builds on the stamina morphs without them, dive/ netch...

Come one zos, warden has very few good passives for stamina.

Why must you reduce ot here but not on stam sorc? Its just inconsequent...besides its just no fun if 95% of your potential skills and passives are pointless

Vosital · May 2017

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I really hope they add it back, reduce them all to like 4-5% if you must.

Also add effects that actually beneficial to stamina builds on the stamina morphs without them, dive/ netch...

Come one zos, warden has very few good passives for stamina.

Why must you reduce ot here but not on stam sorc? Its just inconsequent...besides its just no fun if 95% of your potential skills and passives are pointless

Probably the same reason they refuse to nerf Dark Deal. There is only one stamina class allowed I guess.

goldnugget · May 2017

yes stam warden is bad in pve. does that really matter though? not for questing and stuff. don't try to do trials on it. be a healer for trials or *maybe* off tank.

Stamden · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

MakoFore wrote: »

funny how people get upset about something they never had. stamina warden was much stronger than magicka- theyhavent ruined anything they've just made what was crap, less crappy, and what was already strong, still strong. settle back down fella

It was better than magicka

But magicka is just better support than stamina? Should they nerf magicka support options to buff stamina ones?

Stam warden was better but stam dk is just better than stam warden, better sustain, better heals.

Could of buffed magicka warden without nerfing stamina when it just wasn't needed.

Yeah all they really needed to do was increase the the frost damage bonus to 12%. Or just buff up the damage on the DPS abilities. Or change the scalings on the abilities.

There is a million things they could have done to make Magika DPS better, but of course they choose the one single way that could screw over stamina players.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Vosital wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I really hope they add it back, reduce them all to like 4-5% if you must.

Also add effects that actually beneficial to stamina builds on the stamina morphs without them, dive/ netch...

Come one zos, warden has very few good passives for stamina.

Why must you reduce ot here but not on stam sorc? Its just inconsequent...besides its just no fun if 95% of your potential skills and passives are pointless

Probably the same reason they refuse to nerf Dark Deal. There is only one stamina class allowed I guess.

Quoted wrong person...

goldnugget wrote: »

yes stam warden is bad in pve. does that really matter though? not for questing and stuff. don't try to do trials on it. be a healer for trials or *maybe* off tank.

Yes it really does matter. Magicka is better for both healing and tanking (tanks are more hybrids).

Stamden · May 2017

goldnugget wrote: »

yes stam warden is bad in pve. does that really matter though? not for questing and stuff. don't try to do trials on it. be a healer for trials or *maybe* off tank.

How could that not matter? That is the whole point of balancing the game and having diversity. Having one setup that it significantly weaker than the rest just doesn't make sense.

Vosital · May 2017

I find it kind of incredible that this isn't getting more attention to be honest

goldnugget · May 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

goldnugget wrote: »

yes stam warden is bad in pve. does that really matter though? not for questing and stuff. don't try to do trials on it. be a healer for trials or *maybe* off tank.

How could that not matter? That is the whole point of balancing the game and having diversity. Having one setup that it significantly weaker than the rest just doesn't make sense.

because stam was never going to be good in stuff like trials. this nerf isnt enough for it to matter in more casual stuff.

ADarklore · May 2017

The more I think about this, the more I think ZOS took a look at how players were playing StamWarden on Beta and decided it wasn't how they wanted them to be played. If you think about it, the way the Piercing Cold passive used to be, a person would only have to level the Winter tree to unlock Piercing Cold, and take all the points back out of the tree and use them elsewhere. ZOS probably figured that if you're going to play a Warden, then you should play a WARDEN.

Not only that, but the 'Physical damage' didn't even benefit all of the Warden Stamina skills, as Subterannean Assault is POISON damage. Further, when Warden first came out they said that it would work well with Bow, yet none of the passives benefited the POISON damage abilities that most Bow players use. So I think ZOS wanted to kill two birds with one stone, they wanted to offer a bonus to ALL damage types but also wanted players to be forced to play a WARDEN by using some of Warden's skills.

In all honesty, if a person wants to play a STAMINA class simply for damage, StamSorc is still the best Stamina-supportive class out there.

Stamden · May 2017

I am really hoping they revert the nerf in tomorrow's patch but I have been disappointed by thinking like that before. They can fix the issue before people actually notice the nerf and the *** begins.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Please don't let us down.

Nemesis7884 · May 2017

Vosital wrote: »

I find it kind of incredible that this isn't getting more attention to be honest

probably because people have already given up on stamina by now...if that was the intention (well of course huge waste of implemented resources with regards to the weapon lines but well)

Honestly, i have played a lot of mmo's - and while eso does a lot of things right (for example i think they have definatly one of the better art team / art designers)

Their balancing / mechanics guys are horrible....they just seem to randomly lash out left and right, trying to "plug supposed leaks" (which aren't really there) while frantically running left and right but never really thinking about anything with a holistic perspective...

I think what eso should do by now is hire some additional help in that department, look at everything intensly for several months and than overhaul the whole systems as FF14 did.

Nemesis7884 · May 2017

[quote="ADarklore;c-4154187" ZOS probably figured that if you're going to play a Warden, then you should play a WARDEN. [/quote]

isn't poison damage considered physical?

anyway, its kinda REALLY damn hard to play the stamina version of a class without 90% weapon skills if that's all you get and no damn stamina morphs don't you think??? If they want more class skills to be used how about implementing more stamina morphs huh?

Stamden · May 2017

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

ZOS probably figured that if you're going to play a Warden, then you should play a WARDEN.

isn't poison damage considered physical?

The bonus to physical technically does not increase poison damage.

WalksonGraves · May 2017

Darlgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

Actually it's all fire and poison.

Combustion:

"Increases the damage of Burning and Poison status effects by 66%."

World in ruin:
Increases the damage of Flame and Poison area of effect abilities by 3%.

DoccEff · May 2017

Thanks for pointing it out. I was seriously about to buy another character-slot to create a stam-warden.

ChunkyCat · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Yeah, what he said.

Stamden · May 2017

DoccEff wrote: »

Thanks for pointing it out. I was seriously about to buy another character-slot to create a stam-warden.

At least that's not as bad as all the people who bought and pre-ordered for the stam Warden. I think they're keeping the changes low-key until June 6 so people don't cancel their pre-orders lol.

SirCritical · May 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Looking at you, Twin Blade and Blunt

SodanTok · May 2017

Now that stam cliff racer lost 6% of the damage and mag cliff racer gained 6% of the damage (on top 15% it had). It would be good time to give it proper morph effect (it is literally worse than unmorphed thanks to passive 6% bonus)
Literally anything. Right now it looks too much like middle finger to stam warden. Anything could ease the pain (some splash damage for example)

Also bear. Stam Bear does something around 5% more damage (morph effect). Mag bear thanks to this change does 6% unmorphed. Kinda stupid.

Also swarm. If you want stam warden to slot skills to gain damage, you better give him skills he can use.

Stamden · May 2017

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Now that stam cliff racer lost 6% of the damage and mag cliff racer gained 6% of the damage (on top 15% it had). It would be good time to give it proper morph effect (it is literally worse than unmorphed thanks to passive 6% bonus)
Literally anything. Right now it looks too much like middle finger to stam warden. Anything could ease the pain (some splash damage for example)

Also bear. Stam Bear does something around 5% more damage (morph effect). Mag bear thanks to this change does 6% unmorphed. Kinda stupid.

Also swarm. If you want stam warden to slot skills to gain damage, you better give him skills he can use.

Yeah this is this kind of stuff many people and I have been saying for the past 2 months. It seems they really just don't care for stamina players..

Biro123 · May 2017

Idk..

Rolled Stam Warden

Saw the change

Thought 'meh, never had it anyway - will see how it goes'

Still enjoying StamWarden.

Dunno why people are now suddenly NOT playing the whole class due to one small(ish) nerf..

Nerf Sorcs

Triumviri · May 2017

Isn't warden a hybrid...? Maybe use shackebreaker set?

Queo · May 2017

Not that it matters to me... but didnt they say in the last eso live they were going to buff the magic warden, becasue it was so under power?

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Queo wrote: »

Not that it matters to me... but didnt they say in the last eso live they were going to buff the magic warden, becasue it was so under power?

Yes and they did, but why nerf stamina warden.

The magicka cliff racer morph now does 21% more dmg than the stamina one if you compared a stam vs mag warden with the same stats, 15% from the magicka morph bonus where as stamina doesn't get any morph bonus

and now 6% from the passive where as stamina lost it's 6%.

Zos changed dk's passive to both fire and poison because of the dk's stamina posions skills so why would they take thet diversity away from warden and have a passive useless for stam wardens as it only buffs the magicka skills. Ice + magicka?