New Jump Points on almost every CP star - read before reassigning your CP

Nullmagic · May 2017

Lol. So ridiculous. I was just trying to spend CP on a character, and I ended up in a spot where no matter where I spent my last few points, they would be rounded out of existence. I had to redo the whole set up. Broken system is broken.

Darlgon · May 2017

Cryptical wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Often Devs learn the details of how their game works from players like Asayre.

Are you for real?

Yes, he is for real. The document I posted above was generated by me and used by ZoS to see how players viewed their CP system in December of 2015. I know, I could see who was in it and I only sent the link to Wrobel.

SirMewser · May 2017

Cryptical wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Often Devs learn the details of how their game works from players like Asayre.

Are you for real?

You realize how foolish you sound, right?

What you said would be like claiming that an author learns the details of how their language works from their readers.

What you said would be like claiming that Orville and Wilbur Wright learn the details of how a plane flies from pilots.

What you said would be like claiming that Robin Williams learned how comedy works from people who watched his movies.

What you said would be like claiming that Henry Ford learned the details of how cars work from people who drive them.

The more I try to wrap my head around your claim, the more I feel that your backwardness may cause me to have a massive stroke.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We need a method of giving posts a thumbs-down.

Well that's ironic, he doesn't sound foolish at all actually!

There is, without a doubt, that a producer of a product did not (nor cannot) foresee every possible result of how their
product may perform given the number of; elements, events, and other various variables...

Consumers, readers, or whatever, can manipulate and perceive the said product in numerous ways that will, inevitably, result in an instance that they themselves will have perspective on saying it's worth informing the producer/community/whomever.

What you said would be like claiming otherwise, that there is no point of PTS and that development itself is inconsequential as it always works internally with the creators themselves, but his statement was plain and simple, that people need people.

The more I try to wrap my head around your claim, the more I am convinced that you are a troll or in a legitimate state of delusion that: because a group/person wrote a book on flying a plane and it is now the end-all-be-all bible for pilots and that pilots who use the book are therefore not credible for any sort of input to the author(s) of the book. Way to take a knife and cut "X"es into eyes, tear out the intestines and skip rope before hanging the remains, then take a bat and beat what is left of humanity and Giles.floydub17_ESO specifically.

Sorry but keep the radical meritocracy out.

[Edit]:
The point is that creators don't get everything right the first time, nor know everything because of their talents!
Surprise surprise...

brantkin · May 2017

The same people that have these jump points and bs tooltips are the same people that made a clunky system to hide skill trees from new players. I am starting to doubt their balance team or well the people making the decisions around combat and these systems. The morrowind team did a great job, but a lot of other people seem to be dragging this game down hard. It's pretty crazy to see this game and see how the good but then see how bad other things actually are. It's feels like some under qualified people are being shoehorned into positions they shouldn't be in.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2017

sekou_trayvond wrote: »

If I'm understanding this correctly, this is nothing new.

I first was "informed" of this math back when I was creating a blazing shield tank last year- that being, all CP is rounded to the nearest integer.

Odd? Definitely.
Misleading? Meh. The math involved here is inconsequential to a vast majority of players.

It does demonstrate one of the irksome facets of CP: it's just this large wall of mathy text that I assume makes the eyes of large swaths of players glaze over.

@sekou_trayvond

Correct. I stumbled upon this months back on Xbox one and wrote a thread asking ZOS to shrink the total number of cp points and keep the % changes due to the issues they began to test in PvP with no cp

Code2501 · May 2017

An intelligently designed system would simply communicate the 'jump point' requirement to the user. I.e. "Current bonus = 5%, next 1% bonus at 35 points invested."

starkerealm · May 2017

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

If these "jump points" are indeed the truth of the matter; mix that with the massive front-loading of CP values, and you get a game that is even more so: "ESO: The ONLY MMORPG where you get weaker the more you play!"

That's not really true. Most MMOs make you comparatively weaker as you progress through the game. Sure, the numbers you're throwing around get bigger, but the foes you're facing grow faster, and swing harder. So, you can say, "look how big all my numbers are," but you're actually weaker than you were at level one slapping rats around, and just don't know it.

Merlin13KAGL · May 2017

It's a truncation error from the conversion to integer format, integers generally being faster to process internally.

Sadly this could easily be fixed by storing the % values shifted by a factor of 10, and then dividing by 10 after the calculation to get the end result. The (correct) math ends up the same, but nothing is lopped off in the intermediate calculations.

It's how you can do percentage math and deal with values less than whole numbers using a system that can only process integers. You simply need to make sure the type has enough bits to hold the intermediate result. (DINT vs INT, etc).

Sure, it adds one more calculation to things involving CP's, but I doubt one additional calculation would kill the server. The side effect would be when all calculations would be converted over this way, as inevitably, they'd get one of them NKR (Not Quite Right).

For people arguing that losing that partial percentage isn't a big deal, they're half right. Where it comes into play is at that 99 mark. Maybe not such a big deal on that star, but do that in 3 places and you're missing out on the opportunity to have nearly 75 in a different one.

That is potentially huge.

Zyrudin · May 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's a truncation error from the conversion to integer format, integers generally being faster to process internally.

Sadly this could easily be fixed by storing the % values shifted by a factor of 10, and then dividing by 10 after the calculation to get the end result. The (correct) math ends up the same, but nothing is lopped off in the intermediate calculations.

It's how you can do percentage math and deal with values less than whole numbers using a system that can only process integers. You simply need to make sure the type has enough bits to hold the intermediate result. (DINT vs INT, etc).

Sure, it adds one more calculation to things involving CP's, but I doubt one additional calculation would kill the server. The side effect would be when all calculations would be converted over this way, as inevitably, they'd get one of them NKR (Not Quite Right).

For people arguing that losing that partial percentage isn't a big deal, they're half right. Where it comes into play is at that 99 mark. Maybe not such a big deal on that star, but do that in 3 places and you're missing out on the opportunity to have nearly 75 in a different one.

That is potentially huge.

Quite so.

It is a good opportunity to politely ask @ZOS_GinaBruno to see if she can get an answer from the Devs? Maybe from @ZOS_RichLambert?

Is this an unintended glitch? If so, will it be corrected in the future?

At the moment, according to the calculations observed by these players above, anyone putting just a single point into one of the main CP stars will get actually 0%.

Thank You and Regards!

neal_brasier · May 2017

https://alcasthq.com/eso-championpoints-jumppoints/

This explains it pretty well

NewBlacksmurf · May 2017

Zyrudin wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's a truncation error from the conversion to integer format, integers generally being faster to process internally.

Sadly this could easily be fixed by storing the % values shifted by a factor of 10, and then dividing by 10 after the calculation to get the end result. The (correct) math ends up the same, but nothing is lopped off in the intermediate calculations.

It's how you can do percentage math and deal with values less than whole numbers using a system that can only process integers. You simply need to make sure the type has enough bits to hold the intermediate result. (DINT vs INT, etc).

Sure, it adds one more calculation to things involving CP's, but I doubt one additional calculation would kill the server. The side effect would be when all calculations would be converted over this way, as inevitably, they'd get one of them NKR (Not Quite Right).

For people arguing that losing that partial percentage isn't a big deal, they're half right. Where it comes into play is at that 99 mark. Maybe not such a big deal on that star, but do that in 3 places and you're missing out on the opportunity to have nearly 75 in a different one.

That is potentially huge.

Quite so.

It is a good opportunity to politely ask @ZOS_GinaBruno to see if she can get an answer from the Devs? Maybe from @ZOS_RichLambert?

Is this an unintended glitch? If so, will it be corrected in the future?

At the moment, according to the calculations observed by these players above, anyone putting just a single point into one of the main CP stars will get actually 0%.

Thank You and Regards!

@Zyrudin

It's been this way tho...maybe ppl are just now noticing it because the percentages are harder to raise for each full %

luen79rwb17_ESO · May 2017

Thank God for players

Prof_Bawbag · May 2017

Cryptical wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Often Devs learn the details of how their game works from players like Asayre.

Are you for real?

You realize how foolish you sound, right?

What you said would be like claiming that an author learns the details of how their language works from their readers.

What you said would be like claiming that Orville and Wilbur Wright learn the details of how a plane flies from pilots.

What you said would be like claiming that Robin Williams learned how comedy works from people who watched his movies.

What you said would be like claiming that Henry Ford learned the details of how cars work from people who drive them.

The more I try to wrap my head around your claim, the more I feel that your backwardness may cause me to have a massive stroke.

@ZOS_GinaBruno We need a method of giving posts a thumbs-down.

You need to stop taking things you read on here like it's a personal attack on your self worth. Often wonder how people like you function when faced with non trivial and non irrelevant *** in life.

Gothlander · May 2017

Useful information before putting in your champion points.

Zyrudin · May 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Zyrudin wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's a truncation error from the conversion to integer format, integers generally being faster to process internally.

Sadly this could easily be fixed by storing the % values shifted by a factor of 10, and then dividing by 10 after the calculation to get the end result. The (correct) math ends up the same, but nothing is lopped off in the intermediate calculations.

It's how you can do percentage math and deal with values less than whole numbers using a system that can only process integers. You simply need to make sure the type has enough bits to hold the intermediate result. (DINT vs INT, etc).

Sure, it adds one more calculation to things involving CP's, but I doubt one additional calculation would kill the server. The side effect would be when all calculations would be converted over this way, as inevitably, they'd get one of them NKR (Not Quite Right).

For people arguing that losing that partial percentage isn't a big deal, they're half right. Where it comes into play is at that 99 mark. Maybe not such a big deal on that star, but do that in 3 places and you're missing out on the opportunity to have nearly 75 in a different one.

That is potentially huge.

Quite so.

It is a good opportunity to politely ask @ZOS_GinaBruno to see if she can get an answer from the Devs? Maybe from @ZOS_RichLambert?

Is this an unintended glitch? If so, will it be corrected in the future?

At the moment, according to the calculations observed by these players above, anyone putting just a single point into one of the main CP stars will get actually 0%.

Thank You and Regards!

@Zyrudin

It's been this way tho...maybe ppl are just now noticing it because the percentages are harder to raise for each full %

I had never noticed it...

Tyrion87 · May 2017

I need to reassign my CPs once again I guess...

The lack of information from ZOS regarding this matter is more disgusting than the 'jump system' itself. Gross!

MakoFore · May 2017

this is so ***- and embarrassing to be honest- it could be conceivable that a player has decided to spread there CP in a way in which they have one short of jump points, in say ALL of their cp nodes- say 18 nodes- and has therefore missed out on a massive chunk of potential efficacy due to it. in other words- if their jump points are 19 and they've put 18 into each of their trees- across - imagine how much they lose. in a game where every percentage counts- it could add up- or not add up to a lot. ask any player past 300CP- the difference between having 400 cp and 300 cp is normally the difference between vMA being easy and a struggle - in terms of resistances to damage especially- and healing. ZOS needs to remedy this asap.

i imagine they've done this to make calculations easy for themselves- we all saw the disaster that was Trueflame and the lag issues there, the desyncs, etc. the system clearly can't compute in real time what it promises. in which case fine - do that- but make the jump points transparent so that we can manage it and build accordingly.

Tomg999 · May 2017

Of course it matters. If you spend 5 new CP bumping things from 16.2% to 16.7%, it would be good to know that you have done nothing to change your characters abilities. One might make different choices.
I know that I have been since I learned of this.

Galwylin · May 2017

Why not simply have it so to reach the next percentage has x amount of cp? So the last point in a maxxed node will always cost 25pts if 75 and 99 are treated as the same. I don't get why decimal percentage are shown if there's no decimal percentage used. Computers now need to round down to function?

Lexxypwns · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

These are caused by rounding errors. I doubt ZOS even knows they exist, so I wouldn't call it misinformation.

Regardless, they make a tiny difference in stats and give hardcore theorycrafters one more thing to test and number crunch to optimize builds. The game would be less exciting without some unexpected math under the hood from time to time, but I do agree that unexpected performance shouldn't make a major difference (which these don't).

I don't disagree with the principle of your statement. However, when they've stated that their goal is to "raise the floor and lower the ceiling" do you really think its appropriate to have things like this, where maybe 20% of the player base is going to know about these and the other 80% are going to be inefficiently wasting champion points?

Also, @Cryptical you clearly didn't watch the live stream prior to IC, which I believe, is the last times the devs were even willingly to publicly play their game. If you'd seen it, or really just heard the way they talk about some changes, you know that they're not intimately familiar with how the game functions on a practical level. I know the people who are actually doing the coding likely have a similar or greater understanding as the hardcore community, however, the community management team, the public faces of ZoS are really pretty clueless.

Teridaxus · May 2017

And then it becomes an intended feature like ani cancelling.

blabliblargh · May 2017

Well, it a tooltip say x%, then it should be x%. Period.

Is there any explanation for this integer rounding ? I really do not believe it is to make calculations faster.

zaria · May 2017

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

It's a truncation error from the conversion to integer format, integers generally being faster to process internally.

Sadly this could easily be fixed by storing the % values shifted by a factor of 10, and then dividing by 10 after the calculation to get the end result. The (correct) math ends up the same, but nothing is lopped off in the intermediate calculations.

It's how you can do percentage math and deal with values less than whole numbers using a system that can only process integers. You simply need to make sure the type has enough bits to hold the intermediate result. (DINT vs INT, etc).

Sure, it adds one more calculation to things involving CP's, but I doubt one additional calculation would kill the server. The side effect would be when all calculations would be converted over this way, as inevitably, they'd get one of them NKR (Not Quite Right).

For people arguing that losing that partial percentage isn't a big deal, they're half right. Where it comes into play is at that 99 mark. Maybe not such a big deal on that star, but do that in 3 places and you're missing out on the opportunity to have nearly 75 in a different one.

That is potentially huge.

My thought too, and its pretty common to do internal currency calculations in cent or ever 1/1000 dollars then divide and format before presenting it.
In ESO they use % and have to divide anyway before getting the end stat who might be something like x*1.79

Minno · May 2017

It's really not a big deal, as long as we have dedicated mathematic majors/number lovers willing to test these things for the community.

Without those people, we wouldn't have learned of the jump points for elfborn for the first iteration of CP or exactly how the game calculates the data which lead to online build editors.

Let zos make the game complex to figure out, it gives these players something new to test and ultimately I'd like to think that's the fun part about ESO for them.

Victoria_Marquis · May 2017

ZOS needs to go in and fix the text discription on the tool tips on how Champion points actually work,... They need to state exactly the jump points, like Original Poster put down.

Everyone puts Down new players, as gamers we are family, we should help new players understand how the game mechanics work, specially in games like ESO that does not always explain how things work.
Though there is a lot explained by just reading, and other things just lost to exploring, testing, and just asking your fellow gamers, or simply exploring the forums.

I learn something new just about every day from reading the forums and checked out thiery crafters websits. Sometimes Google can help you find information about the game as well...

I consider myself a casual player, but still take the time to find out how to optimize my play style to best assist other players, or get that extra umph to kill that boss with.

Thank you for this Informative post.

max_only · May 2017

Some stars only take 23 points to get to 10% instead of the 43 points they were supposedly changed to, same as before patch. Is that intentional?

NetViperX · May 2017

I have a questions for those in the know on this new change. Does this only apply to the stars that show a percentage, or does it work also on stars like Medium Armor Focus and Spell Shield that show a non percentage amount?

Bombashaman · May 2017

NetViperX wrote: »

I have a questions for those in the know on this new change. Does this only apply to the stars that show a percentage, or does it work also on stars like Medium Armor Focus and Spell Shield that show a non percentage amount?

Just those with percentages.

NetViperX · May 2017

Bombashaman wrote: »

NetViperX wrote: »

I have a questions for those in the know on this new change. Does this only apply to the stars that show a percentage, or does it work also on stars like Medium Armor Focus and Spell Shield that show a non percentage amount?

Just those with percentages.

Thanks Bombashaman! Now I can go start re-applying those points, I was afraid to do so until I knew for sure.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · May 2017

max_only wrote: »

Some stars only take 23 points to get to 10% instead of the 43 points they were supposedly changed to, same as before patch. Is that intentional?

Yes, it is called front loading, makes it matter less that you have more cp.