Massive hidden nerf to Stamina Wardens that people need to see

Stamden · May 2017

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2017

Do you feel somehow forced to use that as a stamina build?

Mondini · May 2017

Getting upset that the worst stamina class is still the worst stamina class

casparian · May 2017

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you feel somehow forced to use that as a stamina build?

It's a passive. It used to be like sorcerers' Energized passive, and this change affects stam wardens about as negatively as changing Energized to not buff physical damage would affect stam sorcs. It's not a question of whether or not stam wardens are forced to use a passive, it's that a big benefit to them was removed.

React · May 2017

Lmao, seriously? Well, RIP to my plans on making and leveling a stamina warden on launch. This is absolutely sickening to see. They're basically saying "Go magicka warden or bust".

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Please provide developer insight as to WHY this change was made, immediately. You cannot quietly release a change that severely harms a spec like this without giving any reasoning.

SanTii.92 · May 2017

Don't like the change, magic and cold damage, isn't that redundant? Or it's double dipping? Should've been magic and physical.

Darlgon · May 2017

You cant "nerf" something that never was live.

Acrolas · May 2017

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

BraidasNM · May 2017

Liam12548 wrote: »

Lmao, seriously? Well, RIP to my plans on making and leveling a stamina warden on launch. This is absolutely sickening to see. They're basically saying "Go magicka warden or bust".

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Please provide developer insight as to WHY this change was made, immediately. You cannot quietly release a change that severely harms a spec like this without giving any reasoning.

stam wardens dmg was great, mag was terrible. this helps balance that tho stam is STILL much stronger. and as some1 else said, you cant nerf that which was never live

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

casparian · May 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Don't like the change, magic and cold damage, isn't that redundant? Or it's double dipping? Should've been magic and physical.

No, magic damage and cold damage are completely different. Magic damage isn't just any damage that costs magicka to deal, it's a specific type of non-elemental magicka-based damage. For instance, Radiant Destruction and Swallow Soul deal magic damage, not fire, frost, or shock damage.

Buy you're right, it should have stayed as magic and physical damage. It would have been easy to buff magicka wardens without nerfing stamina wardens.

NewBlacksmurf · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Do you feel somehow forced to use that as a stamina build?

It's a passive. It used to be like sorcerers' Energized passive, and this change affects stam wardens about as negatively as changing Energized to not buff physical damage would affect stam sorcs. It's not a question of whether or not stam wardens are forced to use a passive, it's that a big benefit to them was removed.

I'm asking because the opinion seems to stem from the PTS game-play. I understand what it is, but I'm asking because Its not a nerf because it never existed live.

Heck I'm a Templar and the shield change if I were a magic based tank Templar is actually a nerf because it existing live. Just gathering context is all from my opinion on the release.

Koolio · May 2017

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Like stam sorcs only leveling summoning tree for reduced ultimate cost?

Darlgon · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Darlgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

'Increases the damage of Flame and Poison area of effect abilities by 6%.'

?

casparian · May 2017

Darlgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

What are you talking about? World in Ruin affects Wall of Elements, Fiery Rage, Acid Spray, Toxic Barrage, Fire Rune, and Meteor (and maybe some others I'm forgetting).

leepalmer95 · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

What are you talking about? World in Ruin affects Wall of Elements, Fiery Rage, Acid Spray, Toxic Barrage, Fire Rune, and Meteor (and maybe some others I'm forgetting).

Shhh he's plays dk and i don't, he obviously knows better.

What a pleb.

Erock25 · May 2017

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

goldnugget · May 2017

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

not really. stam warden uses maybe 1-2 animal companion skills.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

II never noticed that either. Still no need to gut stam warden dmg, stam wardens usually use 1 or 2 on a bar anyway. It's still a dmg loss to them.

Erock25 · May 2017

goldnugget wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

not really. stam warden has trash class skills, so very few were used. its still a nerf.

I haven't play tested the Warden yet but off of build calculators ... i see the chance of slotting 5 skills (4 plus ultimate) on one bar. That's 10% increased dmg to ALL abilties so you can have a 10% harder hitting wrecking blow in PVP for example. That plus the standard 6% from Piercing Cold may have been too much. Even if you put 2 Animal Companion abilities on each bar (or one of each bar and use the Bear ultimate) you get a standard 4% increase to whatever else you slot as well. I really think the change to Advanced Species (used to increase Animal Companion skills dmg per amount of Animal Companion skills slotted) that lets it increase all abilities is the reason this was changed. Slight nerf unless you use 3 Animal Companion skills per bar? Yes but I see why they did it.

Narvuntien · May 2017

I have run versions of warden with 5 AC skills. Although typically I had the netch or bird on the other bar. I think if you want to build for it you can get a 10% damage boost, 6-8% would be common.

I think it is a good change... and not just because I suggested it.

The problem with stamina is you just slot all weapon skills and basically only use class passives here you are being rewarded for stacking class skills instead of weapon skill line ones. It makes Stam warden a very different type of stam character instead of just sloting everything the same between classes.

SodanTok · May 2017

.

Narvuntien wrote: »

I have run versions of warden with 5 AC skills. Although typically I had the netch or bird on the other bar. I think if you want to build for it you can get a 10% damage boost, 6-8% would be common.

I think it is a good change... and not just because I suggested it.

The problem with stamina is you just slot all weapon skills and basically only use class passives here you are being rewarded for stacking class skills instead of weapon skill line ones. It makes Stam warden a very different type of stam character instead of just sloting everything the same between classes.

You arent rewarded. You are punished slightly less. Before the change your bear of cliff racer dealt 16% bonus damage. Now it will be just 10%. Your shalks dealt 10% damage now they will still deal 10%. Your backbar DoTs were already buffed by 6%, now they will be slightly better by 4% (if you use such stupid setup with 5 AC on one bar...)

KochDerDamonen · May 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Don't like the change, magic and cold damage, isn't that redundant? Or it's double dipping? Should've been magic and physical.

@Santii.92 Magic is a damage type, seperate from Cold (or fire, or lightning). Nightblades and Templars deal Magic damage in their class spells, for instance.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Erock25 wrote: »

goldnugget wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

not really. stam warden has trash class skills, so very few were used. its still a nerf.

I haven't play tested the Warden yet but off of build calculators ... i see the chance of slotting 5 skills (4 plus ultimate) on one bar. That's 10% increased dmg to ALL abilties so you can have a 10% harder hitting wrecking blow in PVP for example. That plus the standard 6% from Piercing Cold may have been too much. Even if you put 2 Animal Companion abilities on each bar (or one of each bar and use the Bear ultimate) you get a standard 4% increase to whatever else you slot as well. I really think the change to Advanced Species (used to increase Animal Companion skills dmg per amount of Animal Companion skills slotted) that lets it increase all abilities is the reason this was changed. Slight nerf unless you use 3 Animal Companion skills per bar? Yes but I see why they did it.

You won't slot 4-5 AC skills it's a waste.

In pvp you'll have 1-2 a bar (usually 1).

In pve you'll have like 2 a bar?

Erock25 · May 2017

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

goldnugget wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

not really. stam warden has trash class skills, so very few were used. its still a nerf.

I haven't play tested the Warden yet but off of build calculators ... i see the chance of slotting 5 skills (4 plus ultimate) on one bar. That's 10% increased dmg to ALL abilties so you can have a 10% harder hitting wrecking blow in PVP for example. That plus the standard 6% from Piercing Cold may have been too much. Even if you put 2 Animal Companion abilities on each bar (or one of each bar and use the Bear ultimate) you get a standard 4% increase to whatever else you slot as well. I really think the change to Advanced Species (used to increase Animal Companion skills dmg per amount of Animal Companion skills slotted) that lets it increase all abilities is the reason this was changed. Slight nerf unless you use 3 Animal Companion skills per bar? Yes but I see why they did it.

You won't slot 4-5 AC skills it's a waste.

In pvp you'll have 1-2 a bar (usually 1).

In pve you'll have like 2 a bar?

Yup. Not saying I agree or disagree with the change as I have been specifically avoiding Warden testing/feedback. I just figure that ZOS didn't want Stam Wardens to be able to put 5 AC abilities on one bar and with the old Piercing Cold passive get a 16% harder hitting Wrecking Blow, Pierce Armor, or whatever other spammable you can think of.

Mazbt · May 2017

Still planning on making my stam warden . Not doing anything too serious with it just messing open world questing/exploring, PVP, and casual dungeon runs. Been looking forward to it. U still get damage bonus for slotting animal companion skills .

THEDKEXPERIENCE · May 2017

Hahaha.

How can you nerf that which has never existed? Seriously it's day one. Calm down. Actually, it's not even day 1 for probably 80% of us. Just beta test the game for us and enjoy what you have.

leepalmer95 · May 2017

Erock25 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

goldnugget wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_EricWrobel

This change is part of the Warden changes that were released today. They are only being talked about on the PTS Morrowind forums for some reason, but it's really worth mentioning here since so many of you that were planning on making a Stamina Warden today are going to be extremely disappointed.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Piercing Cold now increases damage to all Magic and Cold damage abilities instead of Physical and Frost damage abilities.

This is one of the nastiest launch day changes I have seen. The fact that it is borderline hidden from the community only makes it worse. Zenimax, I would really like to see these changes reverted and hope you can find ways to help Magika Warden without completely butchering Stamina Warden.

Do you think this was put in because the one Animal Companion passive got changed to increase ALL ability dmg by 2% per ability from that tree slotted??? This basically replaced the increased physical dmg that was removed.

not really. stam warden has trash class skills, so very few were used. its still a nerf.

I haven't play tested the Warden yet but off of build calculators ... i see the chance of slotting 5 skills (4 plus ultimate) on one bar. That's 10% increased dmg to ALL abilties so you can have a 10% harder hitting wrecking blow in PVP for example. That plus the standard 6% from Piercing Cold may have been too much. Even if you put 2 Animal Companion abilities on each bar (or one of each bar and use the Bear ultimate) you get a standard 4% increase to whatever else you slot as well. I really think the change to Advanced Species (used to increase Animal Companion skills dmg per amount of Animal Companion skills slotted) that lets it increase all abilities is the reason this was changed. Slight nerf unless you use 3 Animal Companion skills per bar? Yes but I see why they did it.

You won't slot 4-5 AC skills it's a waste.

In pvp you'll have 1-2 a bar (usually 1).

In pve you'll have like 2 a bar?

Yup. Not saying I agree or disagree with the change as I have been specifically avoiding Warden testing/feedback. I just figure that ZOS didn't want Stam Wardens to be able to put 5 AC abilities on one bar and with the old Piercing Cold passive get a 16% harder hitting Wrecking Blow, Pierce Armor, or whatever other spammable you can think of.

Atleast we found out where mag warden got its buffs anyway.

D0ntevenL1ft · May 2017

Darlgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

Wow. Quoted for proof of intelligence. Do storm calling passives only increase damage of storm calling skills too?

Darlgon · May 2017

D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

It's an intelligent change. Winter's Embrace is a magicka skill line so the passive should benefit the people actually using it, instead of people who will arbitrarily level it for one passive.

Yet dk's get a poison and fire aoe version because they do poison and fire.

It's a stupid change.

Err.. what? Those passives only affect skills from those lines, not any aoe.

Come back when you play a DK.

Wow. Quoted for proof of intelligence. Do storm calling passives only increase damage of storm calling skills too?

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Combustion_(Ardent_Flame)

"Combustion increases the Fire and Poison damage of the active skills in the Ardent Flame skill line. It does not boost damage from other skill lines such as flame staves or skills from Destruction Staff."