Please make Dark Exchange charge its cost if it's interrupted.

DRXHarbinger · May 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NO! This ability is already a pain to use because you can't switch bars until the LONG cast time is over, and they just made the cast time even longer!

You cry about balancing all the broken stuff. Really makes me think you need a lot of crutches.

Don't make a habit of calling people out, but seen you in 3 threads already this morning crying about broken stuff being addressed.

Everyone has been calling for this change to dark morph forever. I have 3 Stam sorcs (one on EU and two on NA) and openly admitted this is broken. Hence why I made two on NA, lack of regen due to low CP (167) is completely irrelevant due to this skill. It's so broken.

LOL at "Everyone", what a lot of nonsense. If the sorc-haters actually get the nerfs they're begging for, believe me, the forums will be FULL of complaining, unhappy Sorcs.

This skill is already hard to use in PvP for Magicka Sorcs, it doesn't need any more nerfs. The only reason stam Sorcs get away with it is because they're probably wearing heavy armor and have Hurricane up so they can weather the blows during that long-ass cast time.

And your calling me out is ridiculous, because what you euphemistically call "broken stuff being addressed" is really just a bunch of pointless nerfs that benefit one group of players at the expense of another. Sounds to me like YOU are the one looking for crutches!

It's so hard to use that the meta is amberplasm and spam this for endless magica? Something doesn't add up there. Shield stack and use this is NOT hard.

I play every class in PvP except magica dk. So when I suggest buffs/nerfs, it's from a neutral standpoint. I know someone who plays one class (skill name in your name is a dead giveaway) feels like their class is being attacked, but they don't understand when something is not balanced because they don't see the other side.

You don't want the current op class nerfed ever so slightly (the change suggested here promotes intelligent use of the skill - risk/reward) and you we crying about losing a CP campaign. It's very much you who needs crutches. I mean if you think using amberplasm and dark exchange behind 20k shield is hard to pull off.... says it all really.

Correct, both sorcs have very easy use of this skill as it is. Magsorc pops shield and just spams away or "streak+DD+Streak+DD etc etc" and gets away easily.

Stam sorc just pops hurricane and surge and runs around spamming it trying to lose LOS or as most use shuffle too just plain rely on that whilst hammering away at the buttons for it. it is a mindless skill. bearing in mind I have both sorcs, both flawless, both Vmold, both into AR30s and completely agree it is a stupid skill with very very little risk in using.

Get 2 stam sorcs together and you'll be fighting each other for days if it turns out you have the same set up. You'll waste stamina bashing them or using venom arrow, whilst their cost isn't going down as a result of it....

Feanor · May 2017

Venom Arrow for example is not only an interrupt. It's also a strong DoT. Crushing Shock is not only an interrupt. It also has a decent damage component. But I'm done arguing. Change whatever you want. If it's not Sorcs you'll soon find another class to complain about.

BohnT · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Venom Arrow for example is not only an interrupt. It's also a strong DoT. Crushing Shock is not only an interrupt. It also has a decent damage component. But I'm done arguing. Change whatever you want. If it's not Sorcs you'll soon find another class to complain about.

The dot of venom arrow is very very weak. Poison injection is a crazy good dot but venom arrow is simply crap. It ticks every 2 seconds for ~1k in pvp thats one of the worst dots in the game PI only is strong because of the execute function.

DRXHarbinger · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Venom Arrow for example is not only an interrupt. It's also a strong DoT. Crushing Shock is not only an interrupt. It also has a decent damage component. But I'm done arguing. Change whatever you want. If it's not Sorcs you'll soon find another class to complain about.

Whats this got to do with it? Surely this just implies Magsorc vs Stamsorc have an equal footing to counter each others DD spam...#Balance.

Both just still as per argument, have little risk in using the skill, sure they'll interrupted 1st time but spam it again under CC cooldown and yay back to full health / stam / magika again. All people are asking for is that 1st interrupt cost the interrupted the 4k Magika / Stam. that is all.

Feanor · May 2017

The DoT is weaker because you get utility with the interrupt. Also no stam build has a 2k Venom Arrow Tooltip that gets halved to 1k.

Strider_Roshin · May 2017

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Venom Arrow for example is not only an interrupt. It's also a strong DoT. Crushing Shock is not only an interrupt. It also has a decent damage component. But I'm done arguing. Change whatever you want. If it's not Sorcs you'll soon find another class to complain about.

Whats this got to do with it? Surely this just implies Magsorc vs Stamsorc have an equal footing to counter each others DD spam...#Balance.

Both just still as per argument, have little risk in using the skill, sure they'll interrupted 1st time but spam it again under CC cooldown and yay back to full health / stam / magika again. All people are asking for is that 1st interrupt cost the interrupted the 4k Magika / Stam. that is all.

What that has to do with it? When the argument is "Mag sorcs can wear amberplasm and d/c to no end" or "slot radiant magelight to counter ganks" then "slot an interrupting spell to deal with channels" is a legitimate answer. It isn't like reach and venom arrow are class bound skills anyway.

Feanor · May 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

BohnT · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

The person who interrupts is punished as bashed actually cost stam and but it costs nothing for the sorc to be interrupted there is nothing that punishes the sorc, the sorc even gets free cc immunity because of the bash.
The other abilities are only good if you spam them because:
They have a travel time
They need a own global cooldown, if you used a ability in the same second as the sorc uses DD then gl hitting them
As I said you can even dodge cancel DD so you can't be interrupted anyway

Edziu · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

nobody use veon arrow...this is just pathetic useless dot and it will be useful only against those sorcs because nobody else is using other cast abilities which are that hard to counter without that venom arrow or crushing shot

so we have no crushing shock which is ale very rarely seen on cyrodil because of less spammable damage

and bash to this dark deal....you need literally spam this bash to finally hit this caster in this short time while he ist casting with same time blocking self stamina regen which is big hit to basher if he is not in heavy armor while dark deal caster have no penalty IF HE GOT FINALLY BASHED ONCE FROM 10 OTHER DONE CASTS

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

The person who interrupts is punished as bashed actually cost stam and but it costs nothing for the sorc to be interrupted there is nothing that punishes the sorc, the sorc even gets free cc immunity because of the bash.
The other abilities are only good if you spam them because:
They have a travel time
They need a own global cooldown, if you used a ability in the same second as the sorc uses DD then gl hitting them
As I said you can even dodge cancel DD so you can't be interrupted anyway

With that logic the sSorc wouldn't be punished also if he just stood there, afk, doing nothing, and get shot/ bashed. Except the dmg. And the time he used to not do something offensive, defensive, retracting...

Feanor · May 2017

Taking damage is no punishment. Got you. Also "nobody uses that ability" is a legit argument now. I wish I could have told that one to all the NBs when they were defending their ganks. I get you'd like a 15k spammable insta cast that interrupts and connects instantly. It's no use arguing here.

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Venom Arrow for example is not only an interrupt. It's also a strong DoT. Crushing Shock is not only an interrupt. It also has a decent damage component. But I'm done arguing. Change whatever you want. If it's not Sorcs you'll soon find another class to complain about.

damage of both abilities can be out healed by refreshing rally after 2 secs uptime

SanTii.92 · May 2017

Nope, enough sorc nerfs. They ended up on quite a poor state already, specially on no cp.

BohnT · May 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

The person who interrupts is punished as bashed actually cost stam and but it costs nothing for the sorc to be interrupted there is nothing that punishes the sorc, the sorc even gets free cc immunity because of the bash.
The other abilities are only good if you spam them because:
They have a travel time
They need a own global cooldown, if you used a ability in the same second as the sorc uses DD then gl hitting them
As I said you can even dodge cancel DD so you can't be interrupted anyway

With that logic the sSorc wouldn't be punished also if he just stood there, afk, doing nothing, and get shot/ bashed. Except the dmg. And the time he used to not do something offensive, defensive, retracting...

Oh the crazy high 500 dmg from bash shouldn't make your sorc worry.
What is that for a stupid argument?
Let's compare the sorc to the enemy
Sorc: loses 0 resources, loses only the time for pressing one button, takes 500 bash damage

Enemy: loses Stam, and the same time as the sorv as he has to bash the sorc.

See 0> -x (x is the bash cost)
I'm pretty sure anyone would pick -x because who needs resources anyway?

Edziu · May 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Nope, enough sorc nerfs. They ended up on quite a poor state already, specially on no cp.

lol? sorc dont get ANY nerf on start...only visible nerf he got was to crystal frag 10% dmg reduction which was some unecessary while every other class got screwed?? no, to this balance we need more sorc nerfs because ZO$ is to *** to buff other classes on sorc level

Joy_Division · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

You don't use DD when you face an enemy you LOS them and then use DD for lots of resources that other classes can't compete with except for dk with a 250! Ulti.

Have you ever played a Templar facing a mag character with Crushing Shock or a stam character with Venom Arrow? Try. Bonus points if you think charging cost on interrupt is fine and fun gameplay afterwards.

All the time. I would like you to explain to me why I lose resources when interrupted but sorcs don't.

Feanor · May 2017

@Joy_Division

You shouldn't. That's the whole point. Because it's not fun gameplay if you get charged the cost but your skill didn't fire.

BohnT · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

You shouldn't. That's the whole point. Because it's not fun gameplay if you get charged the cost but your skill didn't fire.

It's not about fun,it's about being punished for being outplayed. That's like saying a dk shouldn't have any block costs and kill anything with 1 ability because it is no fun game play to set up a burst or wait for your resources to be full again.
There is a difference between fun and balanced game play and we need the latter not the first

Joy_Division · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@Joy_Division

You shouldn't. That's the whole point. Because it's not fun gameplay if you get charged the cost but your skill didn't fire.

Perhaps. But I'm not sure I am supposed to have fun when my opponent used the correct counterplay when I am using a high risk high reward skill.

Feanor · May 2017

That's what the (again increased) channel time is for. You remember the version of the skill nobody used because it had a cast time and the return was pathetic? You're punished if you're interrupted for using up a GCD, not attacking, not maintaining pressure, and not getting your resources for which you casted the skill in the first place. If that's not enough...

If you charge the cost on interrupt then reduce the channel to 0.2 seconds.

Sandman929 · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

That's what the (again increased) channel time is for. You remember the version of the skill nobody used because it had a cast time and the return was pathetic? You're punished if you're interrupted for using up a GCD, not attacking, not maintaining pressure, and not getting your resources for which you casted the skill in the first place. If that's not enough...

If you charge the cost on interrupt then reduce the channel to 0.2 seconds.

I'd agree with reduced cost time (0.2 is dreaming though) combined with charge on cast.

BohnT · May 2017

Guys are you playing on other classes?
I'd like that my templar gets a beam minigun that kills any target in .3 sec but you can bash it
My dk would like to transform into a real dragon that is invulnerable and has a 40 m radius aoe in which anyone dies and loses all of the gear.
And my nb wants cloak that immediately destroys the other players screens and other hardware.

DD is already the best resource regain ability in the game and you want to buff it without leaving counterplay? Because no one can react in .2 sec to bash someone

Feanor · May 2017

@BohnT

Yes, playing other classes. What's your proposal then? Leave it at 1.2 and practically only being able to use it in LoS safety?

BohnT · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@BohnT

Yes, playing other classes. What's your proposal then? Leave it at 1.2 and practically only being able to use it in LoS safety?

Really? Have you even read my posts? I posted my advices for DE and DD. If you think that this is a bad thing that you have to LoS enemies to use this you better learn how op it is because you use it while you los a enemy. Try fighting without resources to get them back like any other class not a very proposing situation but having the ability to run away and restore lots of resources is like the most stupid game design since permanent streak / dodge/ block

Strider_Roshin · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@BohnT

Yes, playing other classes. What's your proposal then? Leave it at 1.2 and practically only being able to use it in LoS safety?

Apparently you need to be hand fed the answer to this question rather than using some Gray Matter.

Snare your opponent, use your class's superior mobility to create a distance gap, and then use your ability. This will work on a talented player. Players that don't care/don't pay attention will allow you to DD right in front of them.

Feanor · May 2017

I'll simply use heavy resto channels come MW, more so as I exclusively play noCP. I don't even need DD.

olsborg · May 2017

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

The person who interrupts is punished as bashed actually cost stam and but it costs nothing for the sorc to be interrupted there is nothing that punishes the sorc, the sorc even gets free cc immunity because of the bash.
The other abilities are only good if you spam them because:
They have a travel time
They need a own global cooldown, if you used a ability in the same second as the sorc uses DD then gl hitting them
As I said you can even dodge cancel DD so you can't be interrupted anyway

This

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2017

olsborg wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

This should be a no-brainer. Why is the person interrupting punished by spending stamina, but the person casting isn't punished when they're trying to cast their ability? Essentially the game is punishing a skilled player because they're paying attention; whereas the sorc can mindless spam the ability with no repercussion.

This makes no sense.

The person interrupting is not punished by spending a resource for the interrupt solely. Bash/Venom Arrow/Crushing Shock all do damage too. You want the damage and the interrupt for free then? Thought so.

The person who interrupts is punished as bashed actually cost stam and but it costs nothing for the sorc to be interrupted there is nothing that punishes the sorc, the sorc even gets free cc immunity because of the bash.
The other abilities are only good if you spam them because:
They have a travel time
They need a own global cooldown, if you used a ability in the same second as the sorc uses DD then gl hitting them
As I said you can even dodge cancel DD so you can't be interrupted anyway

This

Duh, if you would instead use an utility skill (reach/clench/venom arrow), like suggested, you would do more than just the bash damage.

As for the "has to spam bc of travel time" - isn't that the reason everyone says something like "use streak to stun and d/d right after"? But that shouldn't be a thing also, right?

Best would be if they make it a regen-over time + burst heal + instant cast. You know, I can't interrupt siphoning strikes or dk passivs, can I? Maybe that's the reason why d/d is stronger, bc you can actually do something against it in PvP, respectivly loose 1.2s of your rotation in PvE (with the claims of 60k+ sorc dps thats a whole *** of dps).

Elwendryll · May 2017

Dark deal is a trade, an exchange.
If you interrupt a trade, you keep your first item, and you don't get the new one. The sorcerer changes his magicka in stamina/health with dark deal, but if he doesn't gain any stamina/health, there isn't any magicka to spend.

All the channeled abilities expose the casters as they can't block. That's risk vs reward. If they manage to get safe using LoS, sorry, you've been outplayed. That's not as if they were able to instantly regen their resources while damaging you, they have to take a step back. Each class has OP defining abilities, and this one actually has efficient counters.