Simple Way to Improve Maw of the Infernal

GrumpyDuckling · May 2017

Copy and paste!

Copy the movement and attack codes from the Daedroths that spawn in the boss round of the 9th VMA stage, and paste it into the coding for the Maw of the Infernal set. The Daedroths in the 9th VMA stage are relentless about chasing and attack their target - something that this lackluster monster helm sorely needs.

Waffennacht · May 2017

That'd make the croc a good summon, they then need to up proc chance to 20% minimum

GrumpyDuckling · May 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

That'd make the croc a good summon, they then need to up proc chance to 20% minimum

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

jakeedmundson · May 2017

They would also need to get rid of the garbage health bonus for the 2 pc...at least give it crit chance or even mag regen
AND
Change the damage to fire... since you know, its a "FIRE breathing daedroth" but for some reason it deals physical damage.

Just add this to the list of, "things ZOS doesn't understand"
That list includes, but is not limited to:
vMA drops
Lag fixes
"Infinite" sustain
Group finder

DocFrost72 · May 2017

jakeedmundson wrote: »

They would also need to get rid of the garbage health bonus for the 2 pc...at least give it crit chance or even mag regen
AND
Change the damage to fire... since you know, its a "FIRE breathing daedroth" but for some reason it deals physical damage.

Just add this to the list of, "things ZOS doesn't understand"
That list includes, but is not limited to:
vMA drops
Lag fixes
"Infinite" sustain
Group finder

I use it and it does exactly what the tool tip states: it uses both a physical direct attack and a fire breath aoe cone. Even on my stam toon, the cone does 2k+ damage per second to each target it is melting.

/Agree OP. I could see a little AI help making this set more competitive (especially with magwarden using necro set).

Transairion · May 2017

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

Please no, proccing on Light/Heavy attacks (along with Morkuldin) makes it extremely easy to summon while using channeled heavy attacks like Lightning and Healing staves provide.

I'm a Daedric Summoner Sorc and proc on damage is the worst possible proc, because summon damage doesn't count
at all. It has to be "personal damage", so while my Scamp and Twilight might fight a boss forever they will never, ever proc a damage based item set.

Given how niche summons are (ignore the Volatile Familiar meta at the moment), making them proc on damage isn't going to suddenly make them more desirable: armor-based summons are still unable to be directed at all and will run around doing whatever they feel like. Compared to something like Velidreth or a "Do X to get Y damage" proc sets, they'll always be inferior.

Personally I would like to see them buffed though: if they're on a timer before they despawn, why can't we summon multiple at once if we proc multiple times? Or why don't they just persist until killed?

Nothing more annoying that watching Daedroth run around for most of it's duration before expiring with full health.

GrumpyDuckling · May 2017

Transairion wrote: »

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

Please no, proccing on Light/Heavy attacks (along with Morkuldin) makes it extremely easy to summon while using channeled heavy attacks like Lightning and Healing staves provide.

I'm a Daedric Summoner Sorc and proc on damage is the worst possible proc, because summon damage doesn't count
at all. It has to be "personal damage", so while my Scamp and Twilight might fight a boss forever they will never, ever proc a damage based item set.

Given how niche summons are (ignore the Volatile Familiar meta at the moment), making them proc on damage isn't going to suddenly make them more desirable: armor-based summons are still unable to be directed at all and will run around doing whatever they feel like. Compared to something like Velidreth or a "Do X to get Y damage" proc sets, they'll always be inferior.

Personally I would like to see them buffed though: if they're on a timer before they despawn, why can't we summon multiple at once if we proc multiple times? Or why don't they just persist until killed?

Nothing more annoying that watching Daedroth run around for most of it's duration before expiring with full health.

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

Waffennacht · May 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

Please no, proccing on Light/Heavy attacks (along with Morkuldin) makes it extremely easy to summon while using channeled heavy attacks like Lightning and Healing staves provide.

I'm a Daedric Summoner Sorc and proc on damage is the worst possible proc, because summon damage doesn't count
at all. It has to be "personal damage", so while my Scamp and Twilight might fight a boss forever they will never, ever proc a damage based item set.

Given how niche summons are (ignore the Volatile Familiar meta at the moment), making them proc on damage isn't going to suddenly make them more desirable: armor-based summons are still unable to be directed at all and will run around doing whatever they feel like. Compared to something like Velidreth or a "Do X to get Y damage" proc sets, they'll always be inferior.

Personally I would like to see them buffed though: if they're on a timer before they despawn, why can't we summon multiple at once if we proc multiple times? Or why don't they just persist until killed?

Nothing more annoying that watching Daedroth run around for most of it's duration before expiring with full health.

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

It would be, you're right, that would be a strict improvement.

BohnT · May 2017

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

Please no, proccing on Light/Heavy attacks (along with Morkuldin) makes it extremely easy to summon while using channeled heavy attacks like Lightning and Healing staves provide.

I'm a Daedric Summoner Sorc and proc on damage is the worst possible proc, because summon damage doesn't count
at all. It has to be "personal damage", so while my Scamp and Twilight might fight a boss forever they will never, ever proc a damage based item set.

Given how niche summons are (ignore the Volatile Familiar meta at the moment), making them proc on damage isn't going to suddenly make them more desirable: armor-based summons are still unable to be directed at all and will run around doing whatever they feel like. Compared to something like Velidreth or a "Do X to get Y damage" proc sets, they'll always be inferior.

Personally I would like to see them buffed though: if they're on a timer before they despawn, why can't we summon multiple at once if we proc multiple times? Or why don't they just persist until killed?

Nothing more annoying that watching Daedroth run around for most of it's duration before expiring with full health.

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

Yes a change from light / heavy attacks to damage done would be a flat improvement for all builds because no one only uses heavy attacks or pets unless they are roleplaying which shouldn't affect balance in any way shape or form.

I made some other improvements for this set in other threads like:
When it dies before the cd ends it explodes dealing massive flame damage

Reduce damage to 1800 but all attacks outside flamebreath deal oblivion damage.

Increase attack speed by 25% and increase damage by 15%

Let any attack it does deal the explosion which can currently only happen against humanoid undeads like draugr or vampires ( deals good aoe damage)

WalksonGraves · May 2017

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

Please no, proccing on Light/Heavy attacks (along with Morkuldin) makes it extremely easy to summon while using channeled heavy attacks like Lightning and Healing staves provide.

I'm a Daedric Summoner Sorc and proc on damage is the worst possible proc, because summon damage doesn't count
at all. It has to be "personal damage", so while my Scamp and Twilight might fight a boss forever they will never, ever proc a damage based item set.

Given how niche summons are (ignore the Volatile Familiar meta at the moment), making them proc on damage isn't going to suddenly make them more desirable: armor-based summons are still unable to be directed at all and will run around doing whatever they feel like. Compared to something like Velidreth or a "Do X to get Y damage" proc sets, they'll always be inferior.

Personally I would like to see them buffed though: if they're on a timer before they despawn, why can't we summon multiple at once if we proc multiple times? Or why don't they just persist until killed?

Nothing more annoying that watching Daedroth run around for most of it's duration before expiring with full health.

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

Yes a change from light / heavy attacks to damage done would be a flat improvement for all builds because no one only uses heavy attacks or pets unless they are roleplaying which shouldn't affect balance in any way shape or form.

I made some other improvements for this set in other threads like:
When it dies before the cd ends it explodes dealing massive flame damage

Reduce damage to 1800 but all attacks outside flamebreath deal oblivion damage.

Increase attack speed by 25% and increase damage by 15%

Let any attack it does deal the explosion which can currently only happen against humanoid undeads like draugr or vampires ( deals good aoe damage)

You don't see the tsunami of mandatory heavy attack looming on the horizon?

subtlezeroub17_ESO · May 2017

-Better AI

-Proc on damage

-Fire breath should do fire damage, physical attacks should be physical or magic depending on highest stat of stamina vs magicka

-Chance to refresh summon up time instead of another summon by the same proc chance.

-remove +health and give +magicka regen or +magicka

There, Maw is finally good and I'd use this set in a heart beat.

Beardimus · May 2017

Yeah man, Dave needs pimping. Roids rather than the shrooms he's on now.

Waffennacht · May 2017

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

-Better AI

-Proc on damage

-Fire breath should do fire damage, physical attacks should be physical or magic depending on highest stat of stamina vs magicka

-Chance to refresh summon up time instead of another summon by the same proc chance.

-remove +health and give +magicka regen or +magicka

There, Maw is finally good and I'd use this set in a heart beat.

I would use that too. Plus he looks awesome. Another concept would be a buff of some sort when he is unsummoned. I like "Dave" lol

Transairion · May 2017

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

I don't believe this is the case at all because spamming heavy attacks while wearing the Shadowrend set, which DOES proc on damage, was a futile endeavor and had a terribly low proc rate. Compared to getting a Morkuldin/Maw proc almost every Heavy Lightning attack.

It couldn't get it proc much at all via light/heavy, despite those being a source of damage: most often it procced from Daedric Prey which leads me to believe it's a lot more picky about what it wants.

This experience was way back when Shadowrend first was added to the game though and I gave up on it after that shoddy performance, so I can't say if anything has changed since now or then. But I tried it and it wouldn't proc easily, compared to Morkuldin/Maw which can proc from every "tick" of Lightning/Healing staff heavy attacks. Even when Maw was 5% proc chance it was relatively easy to proc that way.

Yes a change from light / heavy attacks to damage done would be a flat improvement for all builds because no one only uses heavy attacks or pets unless they are roleplaying which shouldn't affect balance in any way shape or form.

This insulting line of thinking is pretty sad to read when the current Sorc Meta right this second involves both a pet and heavy attacking with a lightning staff... and Morrowind's changes to sustain mean you WILL have to heavy attack to stay topped off.

But yeah "I'm a terrible roleplayer boohoo" or whatever helps you sleep at night.

Solariken · May 2017

I agree with OP, that would be an excellent change.

BohnT · May 2017

WalksonGraves wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

Agreed. Or even better, make it proc on damage like Shadowrend, instead of light/heavy attacks (my wishful thinking).

Please no, proccing on Light/Heavy attacks (along with Morkuldin) makes it extremely easy to summon while using channeled heavy attacks like Lightning and Healing staves provide.

I'm a Daedric Summoner Sorc and proc on damage is the worst possible proc, because summon damage doesn't count
at all. It has to be "personal damage", so while my Scamp and Twilight might fight a boss forever they will never, ever proc a damage based item set.

Given how niche summons are (ignore the Volatile Familiar meta at the moment), making them proc on damage isn't going to suddenly make them more desirable: armor-based summons are still unable to be directed at all and will run around doing whatever they feel like. Compared to something like Velidreth or a "Do X to get Y damage" proc sets, they'll always be inferior.

Personally I would like to see them buffed though: if they're on a timer before they despawn, why can't we summon multiple at once if we proc multiple times? Or why don't they just persist until killed?

Nothing more annoying that watching Daedroth run around for most of it's duration before expiring with full health.

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

Yes a change from light / heavy attacks to damage done would be a flat improvement for all builds because no one only uses heavy attacks or pets unless they are roleplaying which shouldn't affect balance in any way shape or form.

I made some other improvements for this set in other threads like:
When it dies before the cd ends it explodes dealing massive flame damage

Reduce damage to 1800 but all attacks outside flamebreath deal oblivion damage.

Increase attack speed by 25% and increase damage by 15%

Let any attack it does deal the explosion which can currently only happen against humanoid undeads like draugr or vampires ( deals good aoe damage)

You don't see the tsunami of mandatory heavy attack looming on the horizon?

i see it but why shouldn't it be improved to proc on damage done instead of only procing with a small element of it?

Transairion wrote: »

Interesting perspective. I might need some clarification, though. If Maw of the Infernal were to be kept at 10% proc chance, but changed from light/heavy attack proc to damage done proc, then wouldn't it still have exactly the same percent chance to proc with light/heavy attacks - because you're doing damage with those light/heavy attacks? And wouldn't we also have the added bonus of procing along with any other damage done - like, say, if you put a dot on an enemy.

I could be wrong, but I think it would still be the same.

I don't believe this is the case at all because spamming heavy attacks while wearing the Shadowrend set, which DOES proc on damage, was a futile endeavor and had a terribly low proc rate. Compared to getting a Morkuldin/Maw proc almost every Heavy Lightning attack.

It couldn't get it proc much at all via light/heavy, despite those being a source of damage: most often it procced from Daedric Prey which leads me to believe it's a lot more picky about what it wants.

This experience was way back when Shadowrend first was added to the game though and I gave up on it after that shoddy performance, so I can't say if anything has changed since now or then. But I tried it and it wouldn't proc easily, compared to Morkuldin/Maw which can proc from every "tick" of Lightning/Healing staff heavy attacks. Even when Maw was 5% proc chance it was relatively easy to proc that way.

Yes a change from light / heavy attacks to damage done would be a flat improvement for all builds because no one only uses heavy attacks or pets unless they are roleplaying which shouldn't affect balance in any way shape or form.

This insulting line of thinking is pretty sad to read when the current Sorc Meta right this second involves both a pet and heavy attacking with a lightning staff... and Morrowind's changes to sustain mean you WILL have to heavy attack to stay topped off.

But yeah "I'm a terrible roleplayer boohoo" or whatever helps you sleep at night.

I say role players shouldn't affect it because they often have specialised build which don't follow the meta meaning that they are only a small portion of the players and are relatively unimportant for endgame because of these builds.
There are other classes than sorcs you know other classes which also like to use this set and sorcs don't only use pets they have 2 ground dots which proc SR on cooldown most of the time if I use it.
I don't want to insult you but maybe you shouldn't be on online forums if you are a sensitive person

Transairion · May 2017

I say role players shouldn't affect it because they often have specialised build which don't follow the meta meaning that they are only a small portion of the players and are relatively unimportant for endgame because of these builds.

Combat Pets will never be "endgame meta" unless they're grossly overpowered to overshadow their downsides. Case in point the Volatile Familiar, which due to a bugfix is now one the highest DPS skills in the game. Haven't you seen all the ranting and raving about how "Pet scaling is broken OP, nerf! Daedric Prey is OP nerf!" things that have existed with the familiar for literally years and been considered trash-tier otherwise?

Balancing summons of all things for top-tier use is a paradox, because their AI is too flawed for top-tier players to use unless they're OP. See the complete lack of any Twilight or Antronach builds, despite scaling from the exact same things Familiar does. Neither are OP, so they're in the trash bin according to popular opinion.

There are other classes than sorcs you know other classes which also like to use this set and sorcs don't only use pets they have 2 ground dots which proc SR on cooldown most of the time if I use it.

Can no other class use heavy attacks in their builds now? Equip a staff?

Let me put it this way: I can very easily proc Maw and Morkuldin just by using a heavy attack. You can proc Shadowrend by spamming DOT's which tick away constantly. Yeah what about all those non-DOT builds that exist in ESO? They just get stuck with a terrible proc rates because they don't use DOT's?

You let summons count as damage for procs and I'll be all for it. You have light/heavy attacks count properly for damage procs (as I already explained, when I tested it procs were really hard to get) and I'll support it.

Killing off something that works in a specific way, so it can work in another specific way (DOT spam builds) is just being petty. "I don't like this, so I'll take it and make it so you can't have it. Neerer-neerer!"

GrumpyDuckling · June 2017

What'd ya say ZOS, make it happen?

BohnT · July 2017

Come on we need all of you in the pts forums to show them that MoI needs a buff