So are we still going through with the terrible furnishing plan price increase?

Recremen · May 2017

I've yet to say any justification for this awful, ill-conceived, pointless 150% price increase for furniture plan gamble bags. How is this even remotely a good idea? It's difficult enough to fill out your recipe book before this patch goes live since you can't actually choose which of the hundreds of plans you'll get. Anyone who knows even a little bit of probability or discrete math will tell you how foolish it is right now to try and get them all. Increasing the price just kills the fun even more.

Feanor · May 2017

According to @Wrobel RNG is and needs to be EXCITING. With the higher voucher price you'll be getting less furnisher documents. And thus the excitement of opening each one is increased. Or something like that I'd imagine.

Uriel_Nocturne · May 2017

PAWS.

That is all.

Carbonised · May 2017

Don't worry, I'm sure furnishing plans will soon be available for crowns in the store.

Or better yet, in Crown Crates. Double up on RNG - double up on the fun, eh

Rouven · May 2017

Carbonised wrote: »

Don't worry, I'm sure furnishing plans will soon be available for crowns in the store.

Or better yet, in Crown Crates. Double up on RNG - double up on the fun, eh

So in the crown store we may get, randomly, a furnishing plan envelope. In this envelope we will find a random furnishing plan.

But wait!

This is a missed opportunity. Why don't we put a themed envelope in the envelope based on the different furnishing categories? Open up the envelope of "lighting furnishing plans" to ... receive - you are right, we'll take this to the max - a random envelope of ""race x" lighting furnishing plan" to then finally get to the furnishing plan you already have.

Such excitement!

It's like inception but now deeper!

Morimizo · May 2017

100% agree, @Recremen , I think this is actually one of the worst parts of the new patch. It's not like we were rinsing through all the plans already unless we were buying Master Writs from other players in addition to our own paltry drop rate.

What this effectively does is eliminate my desire to get yet another "Wood Elf gilded, chipped, mundane cup of blandness that no one could ever expect to imbibe from safely", to just save up for one of the uber totally awesomely amazing potion bottle recipes, that I am quite sure, will be definitely worth the 125 vouchers.

Not a doubt in my mind.

LonePirate · May 2017

I will be spending all of my writ vouchers on furnishing plans on Sunday before the price increase arrives. The 2.5x better chance to obtain what I want is certainly better than the alternative come Monday.

Kendaric · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

According to @Wrobel RNG is and needs to be EXCITING. With the higher voucher price you'll be getting less furnisher documents.

Did he actually say that? If he thinks that RNG is fun and exciting, it only shows how much out of touch with the playerbase he is.

RNG, while necessary to some degree, is neither fun nor exciting for players but rather frustrating. There's a reason why many MMORPGs have done away with RNG in many aspects of gameplay...

helediron · May 2017

BTW i purchased about 200 purple docs in PTS, and there were no new plans. They are the same as in live, just more expensive.

Also i have some preliminary statistics that ZOS has silently halved gear master writ droprates since first weeks after Homestead. Because most of the vouchers come from gear writs, that also has reduced voucher drop rates to half.

Turelus · May 2017

Kendaric wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

According to Wrobel RNG is and needs to be EXCITING. With the higher voucher price you'll be getting less furnisher documents.

Did he actually say that? If he thinks that RNG is fun and exciting, it only shows how much out of touch with the playerbase he is.

RNG, while necessary to some degree, is neither fun nor exciting for players but rather frustrating. There's a reason why many MMORPGs have done away with RNG in many aspects of gameplay...

Erm... considering he's the combat balance Dev, I don't think he's even in charge of how the loot drop mechanics work, so yeah...

Recremen · May 2017

helediron wrote: »

BTW i purchased about 200 purple docs in PTS, and there were no new plans. They are the same as in live, just more expensive.

Also i have some preliminary statistics that ZOS has silently halved gear master writ droprates since first weeks after Homestead. Because most of the vouchers come from gear writs, that also has reduced voucher drop rates to half.

That would be extremely dirty if true. I was fine with houses being for crowns, but the furniture also being for crowns is just poison to the gameplay.

Feanor · May 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

According to Wrobel RNG is and needs to be EXCITING. With the higher voucher price you'll be getting less furnisher documents.

Did he actually say that? If he thinks that RNG is fun and exciting, it only shows how much out of touch with the playerbase he is.

RNG, while necessary to some degree, is neither fun nor exciting for players but rather frustrating. There's a reason why many MMORPGs have done away with RNG in many aspects of gameplay...

Erm... considering he's the combat balance Dev, I don't think he's even in charge of how the loot drop mechanics work, so yeah...

@Turelus

Turning to the dev perspective, in the May 20th ESO Live, Eric Wrobel mentioned the use of RNG in the PVP set boxes bought from the elite vendor as more "fun and exciting" than if the individual items were made available to be purchased directly. This was said as a consolation to a player asking if individual items could be made available instead of boxes to decrease the RNG, and Gina responded that there would be too many items for the vendor to hold.

I was going by this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/267165/the-philosophy-of-rng-and-its-reception-by-the-eso-player-base

Feel free to check the ESO live from May 20th 2016.

Edit: Ofc he didn't say anything about vouchers or the furnisher documents. I mentioned him for the dev mindset behind all of this.

Recremen · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

According to Wrobel RNG is and needs to be EXCITING. With the higher voucher price you'll be getting less furnisher documents.

Did he actually say that? If he thinks that RNG is fun and exciting, it only shows how much out of touch with the playerbase he is.

RNG, while necessary to some degree, is neither fun nor exciting for players but rather frustrating. There's a reason why many MMORPGs have done away with RNG in many aspects of gameplay...

Erm... considering he's the combat balance Dev, I don't think he's even in charge of how the loot drop mechanics work, so yeah...

@Turelus

Turning to the dev perspective, in the May 20th ESO Live, Eric Wrobel mentioned the use of RNG in the PVP set boxes bought from the elite vendor as more "fun and exciting" than if the individual items were made available to be purchased directly. This was said as a consolation to a player asking if individual items could be made available instead of boxes to decrease the RNG, and Gina responded that there would be too many items for the vendor to hold.

I was going by this: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/de/discussion/267165/the-philosophy-of-rng-and-its-reception-by-the-eso-player-base

Feel free to check the ESO live from May 20th 2016.

Edit: Ofc he didn't say anything about vouchers or the furnisher documents. I mentioned him for the dev mindset behind all of this.

RNG systems are player-unfriendly and clearly only intended to encourage an average increase in repeat customers/time played while not actually adding value to the game. There are of course ways to do it less-terribly (like a loot system with memory that ensures you won't get repeats until you've gone through the whole loot system) but apparently even that is too much to ask for. It's just that much worse when you have hundreds of possible items instead of a hundred possible items.

runa_gate · May 2017

Recremen wrote: »

I've yet to say any justification for this awful, ill-conceived, pointless 150% price increase for furniture plan gamble bags. How is this even remotely a good idea? It's difficult enough to fill out your recipe book before this patch goes live since you can't actually choose which of the hundreds of plans you'll get. Anyone who knows even a little bit of probability or discrete math will tell you how foolish it is right now to try and get them all. Increasing the price just kills the fun even more.

Well, it's an efficient way to mercilessly punish people who, unlike me, hadn't done a bajillion writs since Homestead dropped and primarily spent the terrible, terrible super-low voucher rewards on furnishing plans. Perhaps because they won't start playing until Morrowind, making people like me who played beforehand have an unfair, absurd monopoly on furniture?

You know? ZOSlogic fun.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 2017

Rouven wrote: »

This is a missed opportunity. Why don't we put a themed envelope in the envelope based on the different furnishing categories? Open up the envelope of "lighting furnishing plans" to ... receive - you are right, we'll take this to the max - a random envelope of ""race x" lighting furnishing plan" to then finally get to the furnishing plan you already have.

With the added bonus that, being a Crown Crate item, it's bound and you can't sell it! XD

LonePirate wrote: »

I will be spending all of my writ vouchers on furnishing plans on Sunday before the price increase arrives. The 2.5x better chance to obtain what I want is certainly better than the alternative come Monday.

Likewise. The Set Crafting stations are going to have to wait. :'( I was so close to being able to afford my first set, but I only have maybe eight or so purple furnisher recipes learned...and it'll (probably) take longer to grind for those hoping they'll drop from a dresser than it will be to grind up another several hundred vouchers.

Kevin_of_Devinshire · May 2017

Forget gambling with RNG because the house always wins

Recremen · May 2017

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Rouven wrote: »

This is a missed opportunity. Why don't we put a themed envelope in the envelope based on the different furnishing categories? Open up the envelope of "lighting furnishing plans" to ... receive - you are right, we'll take this to the max - a random envelope of ""race x" lighting furnishing plan" to then finally get to the furnishing plan you already have.

With the added bonus that, being a Crown Crate item, it's bound and you can't sell it! XD

LonePirate wrote: »

I will be spending all of my writ vouchers on furnishing plans on Sunday before the price increase arrives. The 2.5x better chance to obtain what I want is certainly better than the alternative come Monday.

Likewise. The Set Crafting stations are going to have to wait. :'( I was so close to being able to afford my first set, but I only have maybe eight or so purple furnisher recipes learned...and it'll (probably) take longer to grind for those hoping they'll drop from a dresser than it will be to grind up another several hundred vouchers.

Well don't worry if you get a duplicate it will turn into a handful of Scattered Ideograms such that every time you get 3 duplicates you'll be one Scattered Ideogram short of getting a full retry at the gamblo bag! How thoughtful!!

Seriously though, I've been doing writs every day (minus two for vacation) since the patch dropped, and during the anniversary event I did them on ALL my characters, and I'm still nowhere near completing the collection. I was trying to buy some fancy 125-voucher golden plans until I found out about this nonsense, so now I won't be getting those until after the patch since. I also won't be getting any more purples after the patch because when this backfires, the economy drops out, and they eventually roll back such a horrible change, I'm going to suddenly drop hundreds of vouchers on it all at once.

The price would actually be pretty good for them (and the blue ones) if, you know, it gave you one you hadn't LEARNED yet, but that functionality has yet to be seen.

Joy_Division · May 2017

LonePirate wrote: »

I will be spending all of my writ vouchers on furnishing plans on Sunday before the price increase arrives. The 2.5x better chance to obtain what I want is certainly better than the alternative come Monday.

Can someone explain what this means and what is changing? I normally just look at the combat stuff on the patch notes.

newtinmpls · May 2017

I hate the writ system, have not used it, can't stand that much grinding//rng

So my houses are not very furnished. Apparently that is not likely to change.

Lylith · May 2017

Feanor wrote: »

According to @Wrobel RNG is and needs to be EXCITING. With the higher voucher price you'll be getting less furnisher documents. And thus the excitement of opening each one is increased. Or something like that I'd imagine.

please let me know when the excitement starts, then.

ZeroZero77 · May 2017

... i like it..... really

Ilsabet · May 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

I will be spending all of my writ vouchers on furnishing plans on Sunday before the price increase arrives. The 2.5x better chance to obtain what I want is certainly better than the alternative come Monday.

Can someone explain what this means and what is changing? I normally just look at the combat stuff on the patch notes.

They're raising the price of the random purple furnishing plans sold by the Master Writ guy from 10 vouchers to 25, and they're adding the option to buy random blue furnishing plans for 10 vouchers. So lots of people will be buying purple plans before the price gets jacked up.

ZeroZero77 · May 2017

Sure we do

On the other Hand on the long run the Epic plans will have a value. Means maybe it will make sense to farm them

Mattock_Romulus · May 2017

Well, they had to find a way to nerf housing along with all the other nerfs.

Saynna · May 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Master Writs
Adjusted the drop rates for furnishing plans from Hlaalu Master Furnisher’s Documents and Hlaalu Journeyman Furnisher’s Documents to ensure each plan shows up roughly as often.
For example, Redguard plans will be easier to find, while Wood Elf plans will repeat themselves less often.

Is there enough testing to see if the changes are noticeable? This was posted in the 3.0.3 patch notes. When they said they increased the write vouchers from 10 to 25 they didn't give a reason, but I assume it's so that we don't flood the market with purples. A few patches later they adjusted the rates so that Redguard will be easier to find, while Wood Elf plans would repeat less often. However, they did not say that the Wood Elf plans were lowered. In other words, this leads me to think that it's a possibility that the drop rates on Wood Elf plans remain unchanged, but Redguard plans upped. If anyone would be kind enough to share their experiences while opening up several (or a few) Hlaalu Documents on PTS that would be greatly appreciated. If it is noticeable then I'd say it's worth the change, otherwise it's not.

SantieClaws · May 2017

Khajiit she does most certainly not approve of the price increase no.

If it is wished to add the blue ones then do so - perhaps for 5 or 7 vouchers. Then if you must put up the price of the purple ones to a maximum of 15.

25 vouchers though is a most excessive price for a recipe. You still need many of the oh so hard to find thingummies to craft the item at the end of all that.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

MornaBaine · May 2017

Did Zeni somehow completely miss the NUMEROUS threads that have told them again and again: DON'T DO *ANYTHING* LIKE SWTOR??????

sadownik · May 2017

@MornaBaine Well they did miss the memo apparently, since they hired the person responsible for SWTOR monetization (clown crates included), didnt hey?

MornaBaine · May 2017

sadownik wrote: »

@MornaBaine Well they did miss the memo apparently, since they hired the person responsible for SWTOR monetization (clown crates included), didnt hey?

And you have no idea of the rage that induces in me.

Aimora · May 2017

I still don't get the point of this leave purple at 10 writs (on the low end master writ you still need to do 2 to get 1 purple pattern - after the change you'll need to do 4 or 5 to get a purple pattern) and add blue but make them 5 writs, this seems much fairer, I really don't understand why ZOS seem to want to suck out the fun of the game constantly?!

staracino_ESO · May 2017

Aimora wrote: »

I still don't get the point of this leave purple at 10 writs (on the low end master writ you still need to do 2 to get 1 purple pattern - after the change you'll need to do 4 or 5 to get a purple pattern) and add blue but make them 5 writs, this seems much fairer, I really don't understand why ZOS seem to want to suck out the fun of the game constantly?!

I don't think they intended for people to get all of the patterns so quick, essentially completing the Homestead content. They want to slow it down to keep people looking for them longer.

But blues should be 5 and purples should be 10. No valid reason can justify 2.5x the price.