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No Adjustments For Lightning Heavy Attacks?
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MaselClass RepresentativeFrom ESO Live at 08m43s
Specifically the bow and the destruction staff they had really large charge times which we got a lot of feedback and we agree with that playing internally it felt slower for the pace of combat that we wanted
Okay, so first up ignore the damage that a Lightning Staff can do, I agree it should be adjusted if this change touches it.Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%.
Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.
Increased the resources restored by fully-charged Heavy Attacks by 30%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Bow Heavy Attacks by 10%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Flame and Frost Heavy Attacks by 12.5%.
But what is being communicated to us from the developers based on the combat that they are aiming for is not being delivered to us. Destruction Staff was acknowledged to have larger charge times and they had agreed with the feedback, but Lightning Staff did not get a charge to this, why? ZOS know from the data and the videos around that players are using Lightning Staves as their main bar and went ahead and ignored to adjust them. It puts players who use it as their main bar (which is a large portion at this point) at a slower pace, you specifically said you are aiming for a faster combat pace.
Could we please get some clarification on what is going on here? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Thanks, and I hope you adjust the whole tree as said.
Nifty:
1- Lit full heavy has a AoE component
2- Lit buff AoE dmg an 8%
3- Lit also sets enemy concussed
4- Concussion applies minor vulnerability, giving 8% extra dmg
So, each lit HA staff does up to 16% moar dmg than ice and 8% moar dmg that flame. Reducing the channel is too stronk for a weapon that is strok per se, thn, what's the incentive to go flame instead of lit? It needs a drawback.
(not to mention that 75 points into thaum boost lit HA dmg and by combining it with WoE, it gets another 10% dmg increase on off balance enemies).
Light and heavy lightning attacks have a 0% chance to apply concussion. So in order to get that you need to use a glyph or other sources of lightning damage.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeUsing the lit heavy attack damage formula by uesp.net it looks like that it is based on the lit light attack. Here is the formula:
HAShockStaff = ((round(0.0182736*Magicka + 0.728039*SpellDamage - 2.50684))*(1 + CP.ShockDamageDone)*(1 + Skill.ShockDamageDone) + Skill2.HADamage)*(1 + Skill.HADamage + Set.HADamage + Skill.ShockDamageDone + Buff.Empower + Skill.DamageDone + Skill.AOEDamageDone) + LAShockStaff * 3
The first 3 ticks are based on the light attack damage and the final tick is another calculation. The question is if the light attack damage is increased then is it possible that lit heavy attack will be top DPS?
That is something I noticed too a while back on UESP. If that formula is correct, the only thing that effectively got a nerf is the last tick of it. I tested my DK HA build yesterday and the damage on the PTS wasn't really a lot different. @Reorx_Holybeard, is this formula accurate and in line with ingame?PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
Zedrian✭✭✭From ESO Live at 08m43s
Specifically the bow and the destruction staff they had really large charge times which we got a lot of feedback and we agree with that playing internally it felt slower for the pace of combat that we wanted
Okay, so first up ignore the damage that a Lightning Staff can do, I agree it should be adjusted if this change touches it.Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%.
Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.
Increased the resources restored by fully-charged Heavy Attacks by 30%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Bow Heavy Attacks by 10%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Flame and Frost Heavy Attacks by 12.5%.
But what is being communicated to us from the developers based on the combat that they are aiming for is not being delivered to us. Destruction Staff was acknowledged to have larger charge times and they had agreed with the feedback, but Lightning Staff did not get a charge to this, why? ZOS know from the data and the videos around that players are using Lightning Staves as their main bar and went ahead and ignored to adjust them. It puts players who use it as their main bar (which is a large portion at this point) at a slower pace, you specifically said you are aiming for a faster combat pace.
Could we please get some clarification on what is going on here? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Thanks, and I hope you adjust the whole tree as said.
Nifty:
1- Lit full heavy has a AoE component
2- Lit buff AoE dmg an 8%
3- Lit also sets enemy concussed
4- Concussion applies minor vulnerability, giving 8% extra dmg
So, each lit HA staff does up to 16% moar dmg than ice and 8% moar dmg that flame. Reducing the channel is too stronk for a weapon that is strok per se, thn, what's the incentive to go flame instead of lit? It needs a drawback.
(not to mention that 75 points into thaum boost lit HA dmg and by combining it with WoE, it gets another 10% dmg increase on off balance enemies).
You also forget to mention:
1- Fire full heavy has a 12% increased in damage that scales (Tri-Focus passive) well with Molten Armaments (multiplicative or additive ??) making it already the best "Burst Staff" in the game. Fire adds 8% dmg on single target abilities, and Lightning adds 8% on AoE abilities, making them both better in selected situations. Also HA from fire staves can be increased by Empower buff.
2- Concussion can be applied by any lightning attack/ability/enchant, especially if the user has a Charged staff (usually your healer) AND concussion doesn't accumulate. So essentially it would be more ideal to have a fire staff that is also increased by mDK Burning Embers if you already have healers with Lightning walls setting off both Concussion and Off-Balance
3- Fire abilities/enchants can also apply Burning effect
4- Lightning staff is only dominant when there are multiple monsters, Fire Staves prevail on bosses in my opinion. (EDIT: HelRa being the exception...)Edited by Zedrian on May 16, 2017 9:48AM1 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Woooo. They're further changing the staff identities. Fire is the DW, Lightning is the 2H, and Frost is the Sword and Board.0 -
Reorx_Holybeard✭✭✭✭✭Using the lit heavy attack damage formula by uesp.net it looks like that it is based on the lit light attack. Here is the formula:
HAShockStaff = ((round(0.0182736*Magicka + 0.728039*SpellDamage - 2.50684))*(1 + CP.ShockDamageDone)*(1 + Skill.ShockDamageDone) + Skill2.HADamage)*(1 + Skill.HADamage + Set.HADamage + Skill.ShockDamageDone + Buff.Empower + Skill.DamageDone + Skill.AOEDamageDone) + LAShockStaff * 3
The first 3 ticks are based on the light attack damage and the final tick is another calculation. The question is if the light attack damage is increased then is it possible that lit heavy attack will be top DPS?
That is something I noticed too a while back on UESP. If that formula is correct, the only thing that effectively got a nerf is the last tick of it. I tested my DK HA build yesterday and the damage on the PTS wasn't really a lot different. @Reorx_Holybeard, is this formula accurate and in line with ingame?
It was accurate up to update 13. I haven't tested it on update 14/pts yet. I did some testing on PTS yesterday on the new LA/HA values. While the Channel and Pulse damages have been reduced 15% it looks like the full channel time has also been reduced 15% which works out to a net change of 0% in DPS. Restoration staff channels seem to have been reduced by 15% as their channel time wasn't changed.Reorx Holybeard -- NA/PC
Founder/Admin of www.uesp.net -- UESP ESO Guilds
Creator of the "Best" ESO Build Editor
I'm on a quest to build the world's toughest USB drive!0 -
MaselClass RepresentativeReorx_Holybeard wrote: »Using the lit heavy attack damage formula by uesp.net it looks like that it is based on the lit light attack. Here is the formula:
HAShockStaff = ((round(0.0182736*Magicka + 0.728039*SpellDamage - 2.50684))*(1 + CP.ShockDamageDone)*(1 + Skill.ShockDamageDone) + Skill2.HADamage)*(1 + Skill.HADamage + Set.HADamage + Skill.ShockDamageDone + Buff.Empower + Skill.DamageDone + Skill.AOEDamageDone) + LAShockStaff * 3
The first 3 ticks are based on the light attack damage and the final tick is another calculation. The question is if the light attack damage is increased then is it possible that lit heavy attack will be top DPS?
That is something I noticed too a while back on UESP. If that formula is correct, the only thing that effectively got a nerf is the last tick of it. I tested my DK HA build yesterday and the damage on the PTS wasn't really a lot different. @Reorx_Holybeard, is this formula accurate and in line with ingame?
It was accurate up to update 13. I haven't tested it on update 14/pts yet. I did some testing on PTS yesterday on the new LA/HA values. While the Channel and Pulse damages have been reduced 15% it looks like the full channel time has also been reduced 15% which works out to a net change of 0% in DPS. Restoration staff channels seem to have been reduced by 15% as their channel time wasn't changed.
That's weird, but if so, I won't complain. It was 2 seconds before so technically it should be at 1.7 seconds now then.PC EU
All Trial Trifecta Titles Done!
Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChVEG6ckuAgGs5OyA6VeisA0 -
H4RDFOX✭✭✭
Lightning staff has double damage with values both at AoE, and single target, that's why. It shouldn't get the same treatment as other destro staves bro.#NoEasyProps0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Read my first sentence
Lightning staff has double damage with values both at AoE, and single target, that's why. It shouldn't get the same treatment as other destro staves bro.#MOREORBS0 -
Akimbro✭✭✭✭It's just.... sad, really. This game keeps letting me down and I honestly feel that ZOS doesn't care anymore. So much great content being hurt by a terrible, newly implemented sustain mess that no one asked for.
Communication is so weak too, sometimes bridging on straight up inaccurate.
ZOS said Destruction staff heavy attacks were given the decrease in cast times yet 1 of the 3 was excluded. The most popular and used of them all too.
Why? To slow down gameplay which no one wants? They specfically mentioned and hyped a nerf to Volatile Familiar DPS as well and how Magicka Sorcerer would finally be brought in line aka no longer BiS for DPS - it never happened.
We only see half of their ESO Live promises come to fruition.
These things would shock me if any other game came out and made changes that were seen negatively by the vast majority of players alongside their misinformation. With ZOS it feels like a normal procedure now recently more than ever.
.... If it weren't for my friends on ESO. My ESO play time has been diminishing by a lot since Homestead.
They did the right thing by not buffing shock heavy attacks, they are already outperforming everything else, so why buff it?
Nifty was only addressing the duration of the heavy attack. We all know the damage from it is overperforming.ALACRITY Emperors united RIP
LAST PRODIGIES World first SO clear RIP
The last egg in the carton.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭From ESO Live at 08m43s
Specifically the bow and the destruction staff they had really large charge times which we got a lot of feedback and we agree with that playing internally it felt slower for the pace of combat that we wanted
Okay, so first up ignore the damage that a Lightning Staff can do, I agree it should be adjusted if this change touches it.Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%.
Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.
Increased the resources restored by fully-charged Heavy Attacks by 30%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Bow Heavy Attacks by 10%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Flame and Frost Heavy Attacks by 12.5%.
But what is being communicated to us from the developers based on the combat that they are aiming for is not being delivered to us. Destruction Staff was acknowledged to have larger charge times and they had agreed with the feedback, but Lightning Staff did not get a charge to this, why? ZOS know from the data and the videos around that players are using Lightning Staves as their main bar and went ahead and ignored to adjust them. It puts players who use it as their main bar (which is a large portion at this point) at a slower pace, you specifically said you are aiming for a faster combat pace.
Could we please get some clarification on what is going on here? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Thanks, and I hope you adjust the whole tree as said.
Nifty:
1- Lit full heavy has a AoE component
2- Lit buff AoE dmg an 8%
3- Lit also sets enemy concussed
4- Concussion applies minor vulnerability, giving 8% extra dmg
So, each lit HA staff does up to 16% moar dmg than ice and 8% moar dmg that flame. Reducing the channel is too stronk for a weapon that is strok per se, thn, what's the incentive to go flame instead of lit? It needs a drawback.
(not to mention that 75 points into thaum boost lit HA dmg and by combining it with WoE, it gets another 10% dmg increase on off balance enemies).
You also forget to mention:
1- Fire full heavy has a 12% increased in damage that scales (Tri-Focus passive) well with Molten Armaments (multiplicative or additive ??) making it already the best "Burst Staff" in the game. Fire adds 8% dmg on single target abilities, and Lightning adds 8% on AoE abilities, making them both better in selected situations. Also HA from fire staves can be increased by Empower buff.
2- Concussion can be applied by any lightning attack/ability/enchant, especially if the user has a Charged staff (usually your healer) AND concussion doesn't accumulate. So essentially it would be more ideal to have a fire staff that is also increased by mDK Burning Embers if you already have healers with Lightning walls setting off both Concussion and Off-Balance
3- Fire abilities/enchants can also apply Burning effect
4- Lightning staff is only dominant when there are multiple monsters, Fire Staves prevail on bosses in my opinion. (EDIT: HelRa being the exception...)
1. Well, lit has a plain 5% dmg increase on sorcs, but bringing class to a weapon discusion is pointless.
2. Same as above. Class has nothing to do. BTW, what has to do embers here? Maybe whip was the skill you were looking for (or engulfing flames, that increases flame dmg)
3. Burning status effect is utter crap. No smart player will ever aim for that effect
4. Yes and no. Lit staff HA is boosted by 3 stars in the CP while flame only by 2. A smart distribution on a lit staff puts it easily on top DPS. It is the same discusion between 2H and DW. While 2H and flame staff have a stronger burst potential, lit and DW have a better sustained potential. Lit staff loses some potential agains bosses, but it doesn't make it worse than flame.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Avran_Sylt wrote: »Woooo. They're further changing the staff identities. Fire is the DW, Lightning is the 2H, and Frost is the Sword and Board.
Flame is 2H (burst) while lit is DW (sustained). ZoS went the opposite way with the natural changes done to DW and 2H... DW should have done splash dmg on full heavy, not 2HSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I believe Lightning Staff no longer gets benefits from CP(damage modifier)? Not too sure on that, I haven't logged onto PTS so someone would need to sayFrom ESO Live at 08m43s
Specifically the bow and the destruction staff they had really large charge times which we got a lot of feedback and we agree with that playing internally it felt slower for the pace of combat that we wanted
Okay, so first up ignore the damage that a Lightning Staff can do, I agree it should be adjusted if this change touches it.Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%.
Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.
Increased the resources restored by fully-charged Heavy Attacks by 30%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Bow Heavy Attacks by 10%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Flame and Frost Heavy Attacks by 12.5%.
But what is being communicated to us from the developers based on the combat that they are aiming for is not being delivered to us. Destruction Staff was acknowledged to have larger charge times and they had agreed with the feedback, but Lightning Staff did not get a charge to this, why? ZOS know from the data and the videos around that players are using Lightning Staves as their main bar and went ahead and ignored to adjust them. It puts players who use it as their main bar (which is a large portion at this point) at a slower pace, you specifically said you are aiming for a faster combat pace.
Could we please get some clarification on what is going on here? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Thanks, and I hope you adjust the whole tree as said.
Nifty:
1- Lit full heavy has a AoE component
2- Lit buff AoE dmg an 8%
3- Lit also sets enemy concussed
4- Concussion applies minor vulnerability, giving 8% extra dmg
So, each lit HA staff does up to 16% moar dmg than ice and 8% moar dmg that flame. Reducing the channel is too stronk for a weapon that is strok per se, thn, what's the incentive to go flame instead of lit? It needs a drawback.
(not to mention that 75 points into thaum boost lit HA dmg and by combining it with WoE, it gets another 10% dmg increase on off balance enemies).
You also forget to mention:
1- Fire full heavy has a 12% increased in damage that scales (Tri-Focus passive) well with Molten Armaments (multiplicative or additive ??) making it already the best "Burst Staff" in the game. Fire adds 8% dmg on single target abilities, and Lightning adds 8% on AoE abilities, making them both better in selected situations. Also HA from fire staves can be increased by Empower buff.
2- Concussion can be applied by any lightning attack/ability/enchant, especially if the user has a Charged staff (usually your healer) AND concussion doesn't accumulate. So essentially it would be more ideal to have a fire staff that is also increased by mDK Burning Embers if you already have healers with Lightning walls setting off both Concussion and Off-Balance
3- Fire abilities/enchants can also apply Burning effect
4- Lightning staff is only dominant when there are multiple monsters, Fire Staves prevail on bosses in my opinion. (EDIT: HelRa being the exception...)
1. Well, lit has a plain 5% dmg increase on sorcs, but bringing class to a weapon discusion is pointless.
2. Same as above. Class has nothing to do. BTW, what has to do embers here? Maybe whip was the skill you were looking for (or engulfing flames, that increases flame dmg)
3. Burning status effect is utter crap. No smart player will ever aim for that effect
4. Yes and no. Lit staff HA is boosted by 3 stars in the CP while flame only by 2. A smart distribution on a lit staff puts it easily on top DPS. It is the same discusion between 2H and DW. While 2H and flame staff have a stronger burst potential, lit and DW have a better sustained potential. Lit staff loses some potential agains bosses, but it doesn't make it worse than flame.Tri Focus: This passive’s splash damage with Lightning Staves is no longer increased by damage modifiers.
Developer Comments:
Area of Effect damage with Lightning Staff Heavy Attacks is currently too high, due to how the splash damage from Tri Focus “double dips” in damage modifiers; the damage modifier would first multiply the Heavy Attack damage, then also multiply the Tri Focus splash damage. This resulted in the splash damage being higher than the damage on the initial target, instead of the intended 100%.#MOREORBS0 -
Dreyloch✭✭✭✭✭From ESO Live at 08m43s
Specifically the bow and the destruction staff they had really large charge times which we got a lot of feedback and we agree with that playing internally it felt slower for the pace of combat that we wanted
Okay, so first up ignore the damage that a Lightning Staff can do, I agree it should be adjusted if this change touches it.Increased the damage of Light Attacks by 15%.
Decreased the damage of Heavy Attacks by 15%.
Increased the resources restored by fully-charged Heavy Attacks by 30%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Bow Heavy Attacks by 10%.
Reduced the cast time of fully-charged Flame and Frost Heavy Attacks by 12.5%.
But what is being communicated to us from the developers based on the combat that they are aiming for is not being delivered to us. Destruction Staff was acknowledged to have larger charge times and they had agreed with the feedback, but Lightning Staff did not get a charge to this, why? ZOS know from the data and the videos around that players are using Lightning Staves as their main bar and went ahead and ignored to adjust them. It puts players who use it as their main bar (which is a large portion at this point) at a slower pace, you specifically said you are aiming for a faster combat pace.
Could we please get some clarification on what is going on here? @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel
Thanks, and I hope you adjust the whole tree as said.
Be careful what you wish for. They could turn around and take out the AE damage at the last tick that we all fought hard to keep in the game from last patch lol. I think (for PvP at least) we'll have to give it some live time to see if it's needed. Then I'll be all over your bandwagon
Edited by Dreyloch on May 16, 2017 6:07PM"The fear of Death, is often worse than death itself"0 -
Sigma957✭✭✭✭✭From my understanding they have increased the speed at which heavy attack fires,, fire and ice staves have a huge wind up before they fire off same as bow. Lightning staves/ resto are insta cast with a channel, 2 different mechanics at play.0 -
BigES✭✭✭✭✭You know what the more hilarious part of the recent changes is?
The Ancient Knowledge passive under destruction staff used to make your heavy attacks charge faster.
So they removed that passive and replaced it with a damage buff to the different element types.
Now here we are again with a blanket decrease in cast time for destruction staves.
They would have gotten the exact same result as this current patch (2 patches ago) if they had just left the AK passive alone and just given a minor damage bump to each destruction staff.
Their balance changes are like this hilarious never ending roller coaster ride that end up yielding the same results in the end. Its like the movie Groundhog Day.
"Yeah... so listen...we're taking your resources away... but, lol JK!!! SIKE! Here's a new method of getting them. Faster and more beefy heavy attacks. So you can just change your play style and build entirely to achieve the same result, see? You wont mind re-farming and re-building and re-learning everything you've acquired up until this point for no apparent reason, right?"Edited by BigES on May 16, 2017 8:01PM3 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightning staff heavy attack can't be dodged or reflected, so at least from a PvP perspective it should not also gain the new advantage of being faster to fire off. No comment on PvE, I'll leave that to the pros.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster0