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TEMPLAR's PURGE
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8 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.I honestly think OP has a point. DoT is not a negative effect. It's a damage type. An if you take a look at PvP this damage type is so bad it is pretty much non-existent.
Noone uses DoTs (and most ground AoEs) in PvP because they do not work. Purge and Purifying Ritual render them completely useless. It is totally ok for cleanse to remove snares, defiles and other de-buffs but the damage part of the skill should stay. Maybe be reduced (in duration) by 30 - 50% but not completely canceled.
This would actually resonate very well with ZOS's idea of having seamless transition between PvP and PvE. NPC's do not cleanse DoTs and PvE is all about them but in PvP every DoT is out in just one tick. I do not want templars to be nerfed and I completey understand that they are designed as a counter to DKs. But with current situation it hurts the gameplay more than helps.3 -
LordSlif✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.Dot is a negative effect
Edited by LordSlif on May 14, 2017 3:45PM4 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.I honestly think OP has a point. DoT is not a negative effect. It's a damage type. An if you take a look at PvP this damage type is so bad it is pretty much non-existent.
Noone uses DoTs (and most ground AoEs) in PvP because they do not work. Purge and Purifying Ritual render them completely useless. It is totally ok for cleanse to remove snares, defiles and other de-buffs but the damage part of the skill should stay. Maybe be reduced (in duration) by 30 - 50% but not completely canceled.
This would actually resonate very well with ZOS's idea of having seamless transition between PvP and PvE. NPC's do not cleanse DoTs and PvE is all about them but in PvP every DoT is out in just one tick. I do not want templars to be nerfed and I completey understand that they are designed as a counter to DKs. But with current situation it hurts the gameplay more than helps.
I mean we could go all day saying this or that should be reworked. Should DK's get their root removed since it renders Templars main spammable (Puncturing/ Biting Jabs) completely useless?
Like I said earlier, Templar vs DK is a stalemate. If you start screwing around with one skill or another from either class you will make it so one has a distinct advantage over the other.
I see people say that Templar counters DK's all the time, but I see an equal number of people say DK's are the counter to Templars. This in my opinion is a good thing because it generally means the more skilled player will squeak out a win. I have had this happen to me where it looks like we are going to go forever, but then the DK will catch me with a Meteor/Fossilize combo when I quit paying attention for a second and they get the kill (especially if they use poisons or slot Reverb Bash for the defile)
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Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.I honestly think OP has a point. DoT is not a negative effect. It's a damage type. An if you take a look at PvP this damage type is so bad it is pretty much non-existent.
Noone uses DoTs (and most ground AoEs) in PvP because they do not work. Purge and Purifying Ritual render them completely useless. It is totally ok for cleanse to remove snares, defiles and other de-buffs but the damage part of the skill should stay. Maybe be reduced (in duration) by 30 - 50% but not completely canceled.
This would actually resonate very well with ZOS's idea of having seamless transition between PvP and PvE. NPC's do not cleanse DoTs and PvE is all about them but in PvP every DoT is out in just one tick. I do not want templars to be nerfed and I completey understand that they are designed as a counter to DKs. But with current situation it hurts the gameplay more than helps.
I mean we could go all day saying this or that should be reworked. Should DK's get their root removed since it renders Templars main spammable (Puncturing/ Biting Jabs) completely useless?
Like I said earlier, Templar vs DK is a stalemate. If you start screwing around with one skill or another from either class you will make it so one has a distinct advantage over the other.
I see people say that Templar counters DK's all the time, but I see an equal number of people say DK's are the counter to Templars. This in my opinion is a good thing because it generally means the more skilled player will squeak out a win. I have had this happen to me where it looks like we are going to go forever, but then the DK will catch me with a Meteor/Fossilize combo when I quit paying attention for a second and they get the kill (especially if they use poisons or slot Reverb Bash for the defile)
I guess we both agree that non-ground DoTs are non-existent in PvP? In my opinion it is not a good situation.It hurts DKs because they are centered around DoTs. And templars already have the best self heals to counter DKs DoTs, they don't need a "one-button to cancel all the DoTs" to be viable.1 -
Eshelmen✭✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.Hell to the no.
Leave Templars alone!PC and PS4 EP only player3 -
Sheey✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.@Ron_Burgundy_79 ty for show me this bro.:Dear Zenimax and Community.
What is the difference between purifying ritual and the old dragonknight scales?
Answer: Both give and gave immunity to a specific kind of damage, purifying ritual gives immunity to damage over time. And the old reflective scales gave immunity to ranged damage.
One got adjusted, the other one is still completly untouched since beta.
Am I right ?
PS: Damage over Time is considered as Damage taken. Damage taken is not an negative effect and shouldn't be purgable. Only effects with reduced stats/regen/poison/ressistance should be purgeable.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Tell me your opinion.
Ill tell u my opnion:
First: let me show u "Purge". Because i
think u dnt know what it is:
Cleanse yourself and nearby allies, removing 2 negative effects and reducing the duration by 50% for 6 seconds
As u can see ALL classes have "cleanse". ALL
But wait i know what u will say now:
Templars can remove 5 effects and the others classes 2. Yeah i know it, but sorcs have a strong shield, the dark conversion and mines , NBs have cloak and strong ults and DKs have roots, reflective and petrify. all are Good skills
So if wanna the same skills for all classes we just need 1 class.
U can use purge it is a supp ability.
Dont talk trash about cleanse, templars cant scape the fight like sorcs and NBs and they dnt have a high burst damage.
Oh really? The Alliance war purge costs 6k to cast. Removes 2 negative effects on you and reduces times of curses hitting you earlier as intended. (50% duration reduction)
Templar's costs 1.5k to cast removes 5 negative effects on you. Put it on your front bar and you can stay 85% of a battle against any mdk on offense. Only possible because it takes 1.1 seconds to cast it over and over again.
Its not the templars heal thats broken, its the truely fact you can't put any presure on them simply because they purge all DOTs away every 4 seconds.
Its not only a issue with mDk, also mSorc (curse) gets simply wished away.
Hell yes. I am one of the very best and I couldn't take a templar down AS EMPEROR. They cleanse my burst. What is so difficult to understand this mechanic is broken.0 -
LordSlif✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.@Ron_Burgundy_79 ty for show me this bro.:Dear Zenimax and Community.
What is the difference between purifying ritual and the old dragonknight scales?
Answer: Both give and gave immunity to a specific kind of damage, purifying ritual gives immunity to damage over time. And the old reflective scales gave immunity to ranged damage.
One got adjusted, the other one is still completly untouched since beta.
Am I right ?
PS: Damage over Time is considered as Damage taken. Damage taken is not an negative effect and shouldn't be purgable. Only effects with reduced stats/regen/poison/ressistance should be purgeable.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Tell me your opinion.
Ill tell u my opnion:
First: let me show u "Purge". Because i
think u dnt know what it is:
Cleanse yourself and nearby allies, removing 2 negative effects and reducing the duration by 50% for 6 seconds
As u can see ALL classes have "cleanse". ALL
But wait i know what u will say now:
Templars can remove 5 effects and the others classes 2. Yeah i know it, but sorcs have a strong shield, the dark conversion and mines , NBs have cloak and strong ults and DKs have roots, reflective and petrify. all are Good skills
So if wanna the same skills for all classes we just need 1 class.
U can use purge it is a supp ability.
Dont talk trash about cleanse, templars cant scape the fight like sorcs and NBs and they dnt have a high burst damage.
Oh really? The Alliance war purge costs 6k to cast. Removes 2 negative effects on you and reduces times of curses hitting you earlier as intended. (50% duration reduction)
Templar's costs 1.5k to cast removes 5 negative effects on you. Put it on your front bar and you can stay 85% of a battle against any mdk on offense. Only possible because it takes 1.1 seconds to cast it over and over again.
Its not the templars heal thats broken, its the truely fact you can't put any presure on them simply because they purge all DOTs away every 4 seconds.
Its not only a issue with mDk, also mSorc (curse) gets simply wished away.
Hell yes. I am one of the very best and I couldn't take a templar down AS EMPEROR. They cleanse my burst. What is so difficult to understand this mechanic is broken.
EFFICIENT PURGE0 -
Sheey✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.Sorc negate used to remove every negative effect away. They changed that because it was broken .1
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Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.
Ohh so templars will become what magica NB are now.Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »@DreadKnight A good Templar will never die to any Magica Dragonknight. Reseting a fight every 1-5 seconds is totally balanced and doesn't need any change. Damage over time is not a highend damage type, its getting stronger the more DoTs you take on yourself. That means nothing else as a good templar will always make sure he hasn't more as 3 DoTs running at the time. The continuesly damage mitigated by the fact you can purge yourself free from 5 negative effects takes alot of presur away and it only takes you to press button 3.
This is not balanced sorry.
Purify has already received 2 major nerfs. It no longer purifies incoming projectiles which was nice since our reflect hasn't worked worth a damn on years. It also costs twice as much because of the ritual of retribution fiasco.
Nerfing purify into oblivion (ZOS's preferred method of "balance") would result in Templars being a **** version of a magic sorc.
@Joy_Division @utb99 @austinwalter87ub17_ESO @LordSlif
Yep. Mageblade is my secondary class. I'm team Buffmageblades.@Ron_Burgundy_79 ty for show me this bro.:Dear Zenimax and Community.
What is the difference between purifying ritual and the old dragonknight scales?
Answer: Both give and gave immunity to a specific kind of damage, purifying ritual gives immunity to damage over time. And the old reflective scales gave immunity to ranged damage.
One got adjusted, the other one is still completly untouched since beta.
Am I right ?
PS: Damage over Time is considered as Damage taken. Damage taken is not an negative effect and shouldn't be purgable. Only effects with reduced stats/regen/poison/ressistance should be purgeable.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Tell me your opinion.
Ill tell u my opnion:
First: let me show u "Purge". Because i
think u dnt know what it is:
Cleanse yourself and nearby allies, removing 2 negative effects and reducing the duration by 50% for 6 seconds
As u can see ALL classes have "cleanse". ALL
But wait i know what u will say now:
Templars can remove 5 effects and the others classes 2. Yeah i know it, but sorcs have a strong shield, the dark conversion and mines , NBs have cloak and strong ults and DKs have roots, reflective and petrify. all are Good skills
So if wanna the same skills for all classes we just need 1 class.
U can use purge it is a supp ability.
Dont talk trash about cleanse, templars cant scape the fight like sorcs and NBs and they dnt have a high burst damage.
Oh really? The Alliance war purge costs 6k to cast. Removes 2 negative effects on you and reduces times of curses hitting you earlier as intended. (50% duration reduction)
Templar's costs 1.5k to cast removes 5 negative effects on you. Put it on your front bar and you can stay 85% of a battle against any mdk on offense. Only possible because it takes 1.1 seconds to cast it over and over again.
Its not the templars heal thats broken, its the truely fact you can't put any presure on them simply because they purge all DOTs away every 4 seconds.
Its not only a issue with mDk, also mSorc (curse) gets simply wished away.
Hell yes. I am one of the very best and I couldn't take a templar down AS EMPEROR. They cleanse my burst. What is so difficult to understand this mechanic is broken.
It used to cost 1.5k prior to the ritual of retribution fiasco, but now it costs me 2.5k with 2 cost reduction glyphs, 100 points in reduced cost, and 3% cost reduction as a breton.
Nerfing purify into oblivion (ZOS's preferred method of "balancing") would kill the templar class.Edited by Ron_Burgundy_79 on May 14, 2017 6:03PM6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.Completely wrong. For one, cleanes do not offer immunity. They cleans a negative effect placed on the character and the Templar cleans doesn't keep cleansing for any duration. It's a one time cleans and has to be reapplied to cleans again.
Further, any damage applied form the dot before the cleaned was still done.
Sorry but the two skills compared aren't really very comparable.
Edit: just read OPs follow up post that purge needs to be removed. Omg. Most narrow point of view, and clearly biased to the OPs play style, I've seen. I suggest OP experience more of the game to see the reasons why purge will never be removed.Edited by idk on May 14, 2017 6:10PM3 -
Sheey✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.@Giles.floydub17_ESO
If so, explain me why they removed negativ effect removal from Negate?
Because it was to powerful.
Ritual gives DoT immunity, beeing able to reset a ongoing fight whenever I want is a dream of every Dk, Sorc and Nb.Edited by Sheey on May 14, 2017 6:21PM1 -
Katinas✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.Do you even templar?
Purging or cleansing just removes whatever negative damage over time effects you have on yourself, it does not negate the damage you took from the moment they hit you till the moment you successfully purified yourself. Many damage over time abilities also have an initial damage component that cannot be removed.
If you cannot kill a templar then it's just a L2P issue which shows in your build videos. So much misinformation and lack of knowledge how stuff works.0 -
Sheey✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.You didn't answered my ongoing question.
I repeat for you: 'Why has negate, the sorcerer's ultimate, beeing changed in the way it works? (it used to remove every negative effect in its area.)
Edit: @Katinas the inital hit of dots is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo big. /kappaEdited by Sheey on May 14, 2017 6:33PM1 -
ChandraNalaar✭✭✭He is completly wrong.[/quote]
Oh really? The Alliance war purge costs 6k to cast. Removes 2 negative effects on you and reduces times of curses hitting you earlier as intended. (50% duration reduction)
Templar's costs 1.5k to cast removes 5 negative effects on you. Put it on your front bar and you can stay 85% of a battle against any mdk on offense. Only possible because it takes 1.1 seconds to cast it over and over again.
Its not the templars heal thats broken, its the truely fact you can't put any presure on them simply because they purge all DOTs away every 4 seconds.
Its not only a issue with mDk, also mSorc (curse) gets simply wished away.
Hell yes. I am one of the very best and I couldn't take a templar down AS EMPEROR. They cleanse my burst. What is so difficult to understand this mechanic is broken.[/quote]
Then perhaps you weren't a good enough player as emperor, but heaven forbid that the inability to kill a templar was an l2p issue on your end. Purge isn't the issue on templars; yeah, it's annoying that they can cleanse but as many others have said, just cc them to death. No class is immortal in pvp, and asking for templars to be nerfed again after everything they are doing this patch is just silly.2 -
Sheey✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.@ChandraNalaar The moment someone says I am not good enough as emperor to kill a templar makes me laugh :'D0
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This man says the truth.Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Purify has already received 2 major nerfs.
Gotta love this reasoning. Like it even matters what the count of nerfs was.
You balance the abilities based on how they currently are, not on how many times they got nerfed before getting to their current state.
Okay, with that off my chest - let's first wait and see how the templar changes (and other general changes) in morrowind affect the templar gameplay before nerfing anything. Removal of easy major mending, along with making resources matter, might just be enough to address the stuff shown in that video.
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Katinas✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.
The two main DK dots deal significantly more damage with their initial damage than damage done by every second of the individual ticks. Roughly twice as big. Exception is Venomous Claws where every tick increases in strength. You should know your facts if you want to discuss.Edit: @Katinas the inital hit of dots is soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo big. /kappaEdited by Katinas on May 14, 2017 6:39PM2 -
Goshua✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.Again people wacking on Templars because they build to survive the attention they get, protect themselves against their counters and support their team mates.
If 1 v X's keep expecting to have it their own way now they are going to have fun
come Morrowind. A Templar is sitting in his rune focus, has either ritual up, is wearing HA they can sit at 25k plus resistances be either boosting their healing received or regeneration or both. But, still they pile on the burst and then complain when they still have a 'fight' on their hands. I say 'fight' because its essentially its more about waiting until the storm is over and then applying damage yourself. And yes Allies normally respond before that happens.
I edited my previous reply as I do sympathise with mDK's however whats the solution DoT to win, No counters?
Is this a buff blazplar thread?
Edited by Goshua on May 14, 2017 8:53PM2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭He is completly wrong.@Giles.floydub17_ESO
If so, explain me why they removed negativ effect removal from Negate?
Because it was to powerful.
Ritual gives DoT immunity, beeing able to reset a ongoing fight whenever I want is a dream of every Dk, Sorc and Nb.
First, you are still comparing skills that have really no comparison to the DK reflect skill.
Second, there is nothing that provides a Templar "immunity" dots. It is a cleans and removes the negative effects after the fact.
Additionally, and more importantly, what is that Templar doing while he is cleansing dots off every 3 seconds? The answer is not much. Clearly not doing much to the DK applying dots.
Oh, and all this while the DK is reflecting anything that is defined as a "projectile" back to the caster. Early in the game that definition was far to broad making doing ranged damage to the DK almost impossible which was absurd.
While the polls in the forums are entertainment value only and by design hold no meaning nor offer any actual information no how the player base feels, I do find it humorous in situations like these that the poll goes so far from what the OP is looking for.
And to be clear, I have 2 DKs.0
This discussion has been closed.