Stamina DPS in PVE fixed for morrowind?

Nolic1 · May 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

Or just buff heavy armor so that way any magic or stam can use it for DPS. Game lacks variety. We always see the same thing everyone else is running. Skills, sets, and weapons.

You realize that if heavy were buffed so it could be used for dps, that's all anyone would ever use? That's the exact opposite of variety

I have a stam NB on test right now in heavy armor to see if it is viable to build that way and to my surprise it works really well in heavy but with template gear I do not have much to choose from so I went with berserking warrior set and one of the medium sets do not remember which one and got the thief mundus. Sense all template sets are in divines I have a 65% crit base and in the Berserking warrior I have 70+ I have a 3500 weapon damage unbuffed buffed its 4100 and with the new cp system I do almost as much dps as my stam nb on live only off by about 1k to 1.5k so I would not say its bad.

Shadzilla · May 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

Alcast · May 2017

Why play anything else apart from a magsorc that has 40-60k shields?

Shadzilla · May 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Why play anything else apart from a magsorc that has 40-60k shields?

With like 55k+ single target damage while ranged. Accompanied by the most disgusting AOE damage in the game. Very valid point @Alcast . I do not think ZOS is aware of how low the damage of stamina toons actually is. Whatever you guys said when you went to Maryland, went in one ear and out the other.

Artis · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

Only top 5-10 groups are good enough for you to join?

If any other builds but m sorcs and dks will be accepted to raid - that's already a huge step forward. And only time will show how all these new changes play out. Do you really think it will be that easy to spam fake health button with all the magicka regen/cost changes?

Vaoh · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

From what I've seen so far is that Stamina DPS is pulling equal or higher single target damage than Magicka DPS in Morrowind.

Wasn't Stamina DK managing practically equal single target DPS to pre-nerf Magicka Sorc? Remember they're getting nerfed hard next PTS.

Magicka still excels at AoE DPS, but the addition of Caltrops did help Stamina out.

As for survivability, it is situational. In many situations having a shield is very helpful. Stamina builds are certainly tougher to stay alive on, but their use of Blade Cloak and higher mitigation causes them to be able to survive much higher damage scenarios than unshielded Light Armor builds and therefore live through it with Healers spamming heals far more reliably.

***I say this all as my own speculation though because I cannot test myself to prove it. All I can confirm is that Stamina DPS is far more viable in Morrowind, but not that it will be ideal in raids to take.

Korah_Eaglecry · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It would seem it's by design

Notice the warden will have a balance for morphs so perhaps in the future by 2018 other classes may be touch upon but I think it's extremely unrealistic for 2017 and especially unrealistic for Morrowind.

It is by design. It's been like this for 90% of the games existence. There really should not be that massive of gaps between magicka and stamina. The biggest problem is that they do not play their own game. Really hope zos listen to all the pros who went there for a week and let them know all these issues.

They do play the game but unfortunately beyond building the game theyre terrible at it. When testing it on internal servers they use god-mode and Im willing to bet often enough this helps them avoid seeing the real issues that average players face. As for Live, Im willing to bet they dont play that often and so they probably fall within that demographic of casuals that dont play long enough to actually build their characters up to end game.

Shadzilla · May 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

From what I've seen so far is that Stamina DPS is pulling equal or higher single target damage than Magicka DPS in Morrowind.

Wasn't Stamina DK managing practically equal single target DPS to pre-nerf Magicka Sorc? Remember they're getting nerfed hard next PTS.

Magicka still excels at AoE DPS, but the addition of Caltrops did help Stamina out.

As for survivability, it is situational. In many situations having a shield is very helpful. Stamina builds are certainly tougher to stay alive on, but their use of Blade Cloak and higher mitigation causes them to be able to survive much higher damage scenarios than unshielded Light Armor builds and therefore live through it with Healers spamming heals far more reliably.

***I say this all as my own speculation though because I cannot test myself to prove it. All I can confirm is that Stamina DPS is far more viable in Morrowind, but not that it will be ideal in raids to take.

Mag sorc single target has been much higher than any toon for quite some time, has not changed on pts. Why a mage from range can do massively more damage than melee classes, is beyond me. As far as AOE is concerned, the caltrops "buff" does a minimal increase at best for dps. Magicka toons are so far ahead in that category its not even funny. Which is a very big issue, considering AOE/cleave damage is 95% of the PVE content. You are correct about blade cloak being better than unshielded light armor builds. Although having a 15-20k "oh sheeet" button is a much better asset. Magicka dps don't keep shields up 24/7 during rotations. It's there as an "oh sheeet" button to give you god mode when a certain mechanic is coming, or if you get into health issues due to other things.

Vaoh · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

From what I've seen so far is that Stamina DPS is pulling equal or higher single target damage than Magicka DPS in Morrowind.

Wasn't Stamina DK managing practically equal single target DPS to pre-nerf Magicka Sorc? Remember they're getting nerfed hard next PTS.

Magicka still excels at AoE DPS, but the addition of Caltrops did help Stamina out.

As for survivability, it is situational. In many situations having a shield is very helpful. Stamina builds are certainly tougher to stay alive on, but their use of Blade Cloak and higher mitigation causes them to be able to survive much higher damage scenarios than unshielded Light Armor builds and therefore live through it with Healers spamming heals far more reliably.

***I say this all as my own speculation though because I cannot test myself to prove it. All I can confirm is that Stamina DPS is far more viable in Morrowind, but not that it will be ideal in raids to take.

Mag sorc single target has been much higher than any toon for quite some time, has not changed on pts. Why a mage from range can do massively more damage than melee classes, is beyond me. As far as AOE is concerned, the caltrops "buff" does a minimal increase at best for dps. Magicka toons are so far ahead in that category its not even funny. Which is a very big issue, considering AOE/cleave damage is 95% of the PVE content. You are correct about blade cloak being better than unshielded light armor builds. Although having a 15-20k "oh sheeet" button is a much better asset. Magicka dps don't keep shields up 24/7 during rotations. It's there as an "oh sheeet" button to give you god mode when a certain mechanic is coming, or if you get into health issues due to other things.

Yes, Magicka Sorc is OP right now for DPS... we all know lol.

I'm talking about PTS. They are getting in the 40K DPS range on target skeletons. ZOS has already mentioned the coming nerf(s) on the most recent ESO Live. Stamina should pull good numbers that are once again competitive with Magicka as soon as Magicka Sorc is nerfed. After that I cannot say much. Alcast is providing valuable feedback on this stuff though that you shoud definitely check out. It would be helpful if more ppl could post DPS parses as hard data too. Some are still shouting Warden is P2W

Stamina was trash compared to Magicka in Homestead. This is very true.

Don't underestimate it though. Stam is going to be in a much better position than you think in Morrowind. Along with this, I imagine Stamina having a lot of potential next patch thanks to some additions to the game next patch. That's as much as I'm gonna say

(they'll be good again - highly surprised if they aren't)

Wifeaggro13 · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Remember are the trolls saying we where whining to much and that stamina did not not need help its funny how quiet they are now.

For 90% of peopel doing vet trials is not a problem. You can go with 4-9 stamdd if you really want and complete the content, even they can do insane dps buffing each others. If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.

The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...

Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.

I cannot help but laugh at the incorrectness of your post. The 2 biggest things are shields and AOE damage. 90% of PVE content involves adds and/or trash packs. Stamina pulls maybe 70% of the aoe damage magicka does, without question, which is such a massive difference its not even funny. FYI stamina does not do more single target damage than magicka. Mag sorcs/dks out parse all stamina toons in single target scenarios. Does not make any sense considering stam has to be melee and has no shields, but we are all well aware of that.

And what is incorrect about my post?

That unless you go for top scores you can bring lots of stamina dd? Ive done vAA, vHR, VSO with my social guild with 6 stam dd. Yes we wipe often and there are too much melee, but we finished.

That the problem with stamina is the survavility and the lack of shields? You say the same. And stamina dd can survive hm rakkat if they follow the mecanics and block when thay have to block, roll dodge when they have. Heck ive even seen a stam dd do the backyard with no vigor because runner died and survive. Its harder than just use harness magicka? true, can be done? Yes, ive seen it.

That stamina should do more single target damage? Don't you agree with that?

That stamina can do right now more single target dps? Go put sunderflame and nmg on the group and the rest of stam dd in hundings, tbs or whatever full dmg set and you will see.

That magicka sorcs are overperforming? Well, some groups are starting to use 5 or 6 maicka sorcs in trials. If that is not a sign of overperform, you tell me waht it is.

I didnt talk about the cleave damage, i agee, stamina is much lower. But what is the problem with that? I dont want everyone doing the same, i want a balanced game. Im perfectly fine with magicka doing more aoe damage if stamina does more single, but more than now. And anyway this is a consecuence of how the fights are designed.

I'm not sure who you have seen doing 55k+ single target on a stam toon in a trial... While wearing hundings and no debuff other than major fracture? Can you please stop fabricating things that did not happen, or at least provide some proof. The best stam players in the world cannot get 50k single target in trial bosses, they can with cleaving adds all over the place, but not single target. Very interested to hear who this magical 55k single target no debuffs stam player is though, if you would kindly direct me to them I would love to have the contact information. Until then, we will all know that you are trolling a very serious issue.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/134908699

He is the only stam in this video (im there on a magicka sorc). Ive seen him do more st in Valariel or 1st boss hel ra.

Alcast in hard mode rakkat (kind of mobile fight):

Alright buddy. First off that parse from alcast's stam dk is from 3 months ago. Don't bring outdated parses from 1/4 of a year ago into my thread and try to say that they are relevant for what is going on right now. That parse is also the main reason stamina was nerfed again coming into homestead. That is information that came out of @ZOS_RichLambert to some stam guys I know in PC NA. They all replied with "you shouldn't nerf stamina off of 1 parse, regardless of how good the player is." I'm sure Rich probably feels the same now. I will now list the things that I found incorrect in your previous post....

If you want to go for high scores (low deaths) then yes, you better are an excellent player with good knowldedge or better use magicka, but because of the shields, not the damage.
I'm going to have to disagree here. It is not just shields that is the issue. It is also damage. When stam toons are pulling 70% of what mag toons are for damage in trash packs, and are at least 5k+ behind in single target fights... You will not get better scores. Shields are a big part for sure, but saying that damage is not part of the issue is hilarious. More damage being done than the quicker everything dies, and you complete the trial. Resulting in a better score, can you agree with that? Call me crazy, but I think that damage has just as much of a role as shields do, if not more.
The only change stam needs is revert the trap dmg nerf, that should mean 3-5k more dps with bufs, puting stam clearly above in single target dps (stam still does more single target but not that much) with high risk, high reward. Ive seen stam dd using hundings rage pull 55k+ dps without any penetration debuf other than fracture, so...
That paragraph makes me laugh, please forgive me. Stam does not do better single target damage. Mag sorcs do much better single target damage, at range... Please link me a 55k+ video, the one you linked was 50. I also highly doubt major fracture was the only pen debuff on the boss. There is a pretty significant difference between 50 and 55... Mag sorcs pull 55 single on Zhaj'hassa, at range.
Another desirable change would be nerf the pet dmg like 20%, puting mag sorcs in line with the rest of magicka dd (at least dk) and far from stam dk or stamblade. The thing is that mag sorc are overperforming, not that stam is lacking dmg.
So the issue is that mag sorcs are overperforming, not that stam is lacking damage? Bruh..... I literally think you are the only one in this thread that has actually tried to say that. FACT = stamina does not do more damage in single target fights, they are not waaaaaay behind, but they are behind. Which absolutely makes no sense considering they are forced melee with no shields. FACT = 90% of PVE content is aoe, which stamina toons are doing around 70% the damage mag toons are. Stamina toons also do not compare to magicka in cleave damage. For you to say stamina is not lacking damage, is border line insane. @Alcast Can you confirm that parse is from January please.

Because Lambert and the rest of them have no clue how to make dynamic combat in a MMO. It's why the games design focus on dps and how well you can do it. On a whole Eso group dynamic and combat is pretty shallow. All the balance issues are only about dps. If there were true dedicated utility and cc combat would be far more enjoyable. As it is ZOS has always favored ranged magical because it's easier to make mechanics for.the game is broken in it's core design, that's not fixable this game is headed towards a NGE.

Shadzilla · May 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

From what I've seen so far is that Stamina DPS is pulling equal or higher single target damage than Magicka DPS in Morrowind.

Wasn't Stamina DK managing practically equal single target DPS to pre-nerf Magicka Sorc? Remember they're getting nerfed hard next PTS.

Magicka still excels at AoE DPS, but the addition of Caltrops did help Stamina out.

As for survivability, it is situational. In many situations having a shield is very helpful. Stamina builds are certainly tougher to stay alive on, but their use of Blade Cloak and higher mitigation causes them to be able to survive much higher damage scenarios than unshielded Light Armor builds and therefore live through it with Healers spamming heals far more reliably.

***I say this all as my own speculation though because I cannot test myself to prove it. All I can confirm is that Stamina DPS is far more viable in Morrowind, but not that it will be ideal in raids to take.

Mag sorc single target has been much higher than any toon for quite some time, has not changed on pts. Why a mage from range can do massively more damage than melee classes, is beyond me. As far as AOE is concerned, the caltrops "buff" does a minimal increase at best for dps. Magicka toons are so far ahead in that category its not even funny. Which is a very big issue, considering AOE/cleave damage is 95% of the PVE content. You are correct about blade cloak being better than unshielded light armor builds. Although having a 15-20k "oh sheeet" button is a much better asset. Magicka dps don't keep shields up 24/7 during rotations. It's there as an "oh sheeet" button to give you god mode when a certain mechanic is coming, or if you get into health issues due to other things.

Yes, Magicka Sorc is OP right now for DPS... we all know lol.

I'm talking about PTS. They are getting in the 40K DPS range on target skeletons. ZOS has already mentioned the coming nerf(s) on the most recent ESO Live. Stamina should pull good numbers that are once again competitive with Magicka as soon as Magicka Sorc is nerfed. After that I cannot say much. Alcast is providing valuable feedback on this stuff though that you shoud definitely check out. It would be helpful if more ppl could post DPS parses as hard data too. Some are still shouting Warden is P2W

Stamina was trash compared to Magicka in Homestead. This is very true.

Don't underestimate it though. Stam is going to be in a much better position than you think in Morrowind. Along with this, I imagine Stamina having a lot of potential next patch thanks to some additions to the game next patch. That's as much as I'm gonna say (they'll be good again - highly surprised if they aren't)

I do not think stamina dps will be at all viable... I mean in PTS trial environments stam is still behind on single target, and waaaaay behind on AOE/cleave. Do not get your hopes up, not going to break any NDA but stamina dps is not performing well in new content.

gediv2 · May 2017

Count me as skeptical Stam/melee will compete with pew pew!... shield/heal... Pew pew! These are the same developers that made a fantasy mmo where daggers out damage battle axes in dungeons. Derp!

LiquidPony · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

?

The cost of Caltrops was not increased, it was decreased. And the damage increase was 75%, which is not "tiny."

VonSwaego · May 2017

gediv2 wrote: »

Stam Nightblade:

-buff medium armor passives

-more powerful ranged (looking at you Bow) Or a shuriken/dagger throw ranged dps.

-more generous resource pool to stay in the fight longer without juggling skills so damned much

-stealth should do more in pve (what exactly, I don't know)

-I'd forgo adding a shield if the above were implemented properly as they should be a mobile melee/ranged dps class, not a turtle

Shadow cloak should make u immune from all damage for the duration. In pve only.

Shadzilla · May 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Stam DPS will be accepted again, yes.

Is this sarcasm??? Stamina has no damage or survivability compared to magicka... That is what this entire thread is about. The damage increase to caltrops is a tiny at best, even if you can sustain having it on your bar considering the cost increase it received. The 5% buff coming to blade cloak is still no where near the same realm as having 15-20k fake health button... Stamina is far behind single target damage output compared to magicka toons, and not even in the same country as the AOE damage magicka can pull. Stamina toons will not be allowed in score runs for good trials groups until maybe 2018 balancing.

?

The cost of Caltrops was not increased, it was decreased. And the damage increase was 75%, which is not "tiny."

Caltrops usually does around 2k dps in a single target fight... Adding another 1.5k dps to it is INSANELY TINY in my opinion. Especially when you compare it to blockade or liquid lightning which pull around 7-8k dps single target... Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds. Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%... The duration and cost were reduced. If you look at what the cost is now to get 100% uptime, it has been increased by like 20%. All in all you should be getting around 3.5k single target instead of 2k, and it will cost you about 1/5th more stamina too keep it up all the time... Go zos... STAMINA WILL RULE TRIALS NOW.

Shadzilla · May 2017

@Alcast @Paulington @Xantaria @Gilliamtherogue @FeaR Turbo Can anyone provide some feedback regarding stamina dps this patch? Is 600k vma possible again, like it was with a stam sorc in 1 tam? Is the single target damage still lower than magicka? Is the AOE/cleave damage still insanely lower than magicka? How does the new buff to blade cloak hold up... Is it now comparable to a 20k fake health button? New patch has been out for awhile, would like some feedback from the pros

HuawaSepp · May 2017

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

LorDrek · May 2017

Stamina need rework mediem armor, 2h weapons, more stamina class skills.

Shadzilla · May 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Alcast · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Stamina is pretty good. I know of a few Stamboys that completed the trial. Stamblade, StamDK etc.

I currently play around with Stamsorc 2H and stamDK 2H build in vHoF.

So far the highest dps i have seen came from stamina setup.

Asardes · May 2017

So is 2H viable now? I've been contemplating a 2H Stam DK heavy attack build on my main but I'm not yet decided about sets. I would try 5 VO + 5 Sunderflame + 1p Monster (probably Krag'h) to achieve high penetration and high sustain.

Kode · May 2017

I agree stamina is slightly lagging, but I disagree on giving stamina users a viable shield. I think this game is too homogenized already. They already get active defense in the form of dodging, if that isn't enough the answer is using abilities to improve dodge, or reduce aoe damage.

Choices are just that, decisions to play a specific way.

I remember when stamina classes didn't have a viable heal, now they have multiple options. Now we want them to have damage shields.
We have ice staff for magicka tanks, and people complain because it isn't equal to shield tanking because nothing is ever enough... though I'm not sure who lobbied for a staff tank, but I'm sure it was someone.

Templars want Sorc dps, Nightblades want Templars heals, Sorcs was to tank like a DK. Everyone feels they deserve what the next guy received.

Classes and decisions you make concerning them should be more important than appearance and what spell particles you use. I feel like some people would be happier if magicka and stamina went away and you just had one resource, lets call it genericka... genericka powers all of your abilities, and all abilities use genericka, and their damage is based on your maximum genericka and generic damage.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2017

I actually do think this patch gave stam some love. I am not saying the problem is solved, but I think they closed the gap.

1. Highest Single Target Parses are coming from stam at the moment.
2. Magic cleave damage was nerfed with the lighting staff (and sorc pets as there are so many). Enough to close the gap? Not sure yet.
3. Blade cloak is stronger than people think. A LOT of the damage in the new trial is AOE.
4. Everyone has big shields now. No, stam doesnt have a big class/weapon shield, but the new tank meta seems to be High Health DKs that give everyone 10k shields.
5. Sustain. One of the meta DPS sets (VO) has built in cost reduction and resource return. Also, DW has by far the shortest HA cast time, making HA rotations viable and dynamic.
6. VMA weapons likely no longer BIS. It seems the rapid strikes/VMA rotation is no longer giving the best DPS. This makes sets like spriggans (BOE) and TFS (trials BOG) weapons much more viable. Farming perfect TFS weapons is still a nightmare, but at least you have company.

I am all for balance, but I do not want homogenization. Magic and Stam need to feel and play different, or what's the point.

Shadzilla · May 2017

Alcast wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Stamina is pretty good. I know of a few Stamboys that completed the trial. Stamblade, StamDK etc.

I currently play around with Stamsorc 2H and stamDK 2H build in vHoF.

So far the highest dps i have seen came from stamina setup.

So stam dk's are taking back the crown on single target damage? Can't be over-performing mag sorcs by very much I would assume considering stamina was a good 7-10k behind mag sorc single target a week and a half ago. I wonder how the aoe/cleave damage is compared to magicka considering the lightning heavy nerf. Can you elaborate more on what numbers you guys are seeing at the top level? Regarding not just single target, but also aoe/cleave. If a stam dk is pulling a couple k more single target but is still a good 20% less aoe/cleave damage, they still seem like a bad choice for trials.

GriMTriAd · May 2017

I don't want to be just another magicka character using a different resource. I would prefer to see stamina build get more access to health so they can run around with 22-24k without hurting their DPS too much. Applying a small health buff to stamina would accomplish this without breaking anything. Then we get to use class heals like Leeching Strikes to make up for the extra healing we need.

This would make the playstyles a bit more unique. Stam has medium health and attack based regen, Magicka has low health but can buff with shields, and health gets a huge health pool and passive regen.

All three stats now have survivability built in to their expected builds.

_WAter_

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Stamina is pretty good. I know of a few Stamboys that completed the trial. Stamblade, StamDK etc.

I currently play around with Stamsorc 2H and stamDK 2H build in vHoF.

So far the highest dps i have seen came from stamina setup.

So stam dk's are taking back the crown on single target damage? Can't be over-performing mag sorcs by very much I would assume considering stamina was a good 7-10k behind mag sorc single target a week and a half ago. I wonder how the aoe/cleave damage is compared to magicka considering the lightning heavy nerf. Can you elaborate more on what numbers you guys are seeing at the top level? Regarding not just single target, but also aoe/cleave. If a stam dk is pulling a couple k more single target but is still a good 20% less aoe/cleave damage, they still seem like a bad choice for trials.

Thats a false statement. Some of the really big parses from sorcs (talking about those 70k+ VMOL first boss parses) were in the 55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that). Stamina was perfectly capable of hitting 50k+ last patch. For what its worth, my testing shows sorc single target has dropped by about 3k on a dummy self buffed. It might be less as we adapt, and as you pointed out, their cleave took a pretty noticeable hit. mNBs are beating them in single as are stam sorc, Stamplar and stam DK based on parses I am seeing. All of them are hitting low 40's outside a raid environment, which translates to about 50 inside one.

Dont get me wrong, sorc is very powerful and rather forgiving these days, but I dont believe they have the best damage any longer.

Shadzilla · June 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Stamina is pretty good. I know of a few Stamboys that completed the trial. Stamblade, StamDK etc.

I currently play around with Stamsorc 2H and stamDK 2H build in vHoF.

So far the highest dps i have seen came from stamina setup.

So stam dk's are taking back the crown on single target damage? Can't be over-performing mag sorcs by very much I would assume considering stamina was a good 7-10k behind mag sorc single target a week and a half ago. I wonder how the aoe/cleave damage is compared to magicka considering the lightning heavy nerf. Can you elaborate more on what numbers you guys are seeing at the top level? Regarding not just single target, but also aoe/cleave. If a stam dk is pulling a couple k more single target but is still a good 20% less aoe/cleave damage, they still seem like a bad choice for trials.

Thats a false statement. Some of the really big parses from sorcs (talking about those 70k+ VMOL first boss parses) were in the 55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that). Stamina was perfectly capable of hitting 50k+ last patch. For what its worth, my testing shows sorc single target has dropped by about 3k on a dummy self buffed. It might be less as we adapt, and as you pointed out, their cleave took a pretty noticeable hit. mNBs are beating them in single as are stam sorc, Stamplar and stam DK based on parses I am seeing. All of them are hitting low 40's outside a raid environment, which translates to about 50 inside one.

Dont get me wrong, sorc is very powerful and rather forgiving these days, but I dont believe they have the best damage any longer.

I was actually talking about the ra kotu and manti parses. Worlds #1 HRC run last patch had a couple guys breaching 60k often, one player even hit 62 on a parse. The weaker players were still over 55+, while the stronger were either near or breaching 60k often. Manti is a bit different, considering there are much more mechanics, but still had lots of players hitting 57+. I am aware stamina was able to breach 50k single target last patch, but it was not by much and quite rare. Highest stam single target I saw was around 51-52. So using basic math, adding 7 to 50+ would be 57+ like my original statement. I hate to break it to you buddy, but you target skelly parses don't mean anything. If you would like to compare numbers, go with trial boss parses not self buffed target skeletons. If you would like to post a couple stam parses from last patch that were well over 50+ that would be fantastic. Regardless I know 57-62 single target ranged mag sorc was about the norm for the worlds #1 HRC runs last patch.

55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that)

That is a false statement. 57+ in homestead was easily attainable on single target mag sorcs. Please do not accuse me of making false statements, especially while using false statements of your own.

Izaki · June 2017

Shadzilla wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Stamina is pretty good. I know of a few Stamboys that completed the trial. Stamblade, StamDK etc.

I currently play around with Stamsorc 2H and stamDK 2H build in vHoF.

So far the highest dps i have seen came from stamina setup.

So stam dk's are taking back the crown on single target damage? Can't be over-performing mag sorcs by very much I would assume considering stamina was a good 7-10k behind mag sorc single target a week and a half ago. I wonder how the aoe/cleave damage is compared to magicka considering the lightning heavy nerf. Can you elaborate more on what numbers you guys are seeing at the top level? Regarding not just single target, but also aoe/cleave. If a stam dk is pulling a couple k more single target but is still a good 20% less aoe/cleave damage, they still seem like a bad choice for trials.

Thats a false statement. Some of the really big parses from sorcs (talking about those 70k+ VMOL first boss parses) were in the 55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that). Stamina was perfectly capable of hitting 50k+ last patch. For what its worth, my testing shows sorc single target has dropped by about 3k on a dummy self buffed. It might be less as we adapt, and as you pointed out, their cleave took a pretty noticeable hit. mNBs are beating them in single as are stam sorc, Stamplar and stam DK based on parses I am seeing. All of them are hitting low 40's outside a raid environment, which translates to about 50 inside one.

Dont get me wrong, sorc is very powerful and rather forgiving these days, but I dont believe they have the best damage any longer.

I was actually talking about the ra kotu and manti parses. Worlds #1 HRC run last patch had a couple guys breaching 60k often, one player even hit 62 on a parse. The weaker players were still over 55+, while the stronger were either near or breaching 60k often. Manti is a bit different, considering there are much more mechanics, but still had lots of players hitting 57+. I am aware stamina was able to breach 50k single target last patch, but it was not by much and quite rare. Highest stam single target I saw was around 51-52. So using basic math, adding 7 to 50+ would be 57+ like my original statement. I hate to break it to you buddy, but you target skelly parses don't mean anything. If you would like to compare numbers, go with trial boss parses not self buffed target skeletons. If you would like to post a couple stam parses from last patch that were well over 50+ that would be fantastic. Regardless I know 57-62 single target ranged mag sorc was about the norm for the worlds #1 HRC runs last patch.

55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that)

That is a false statement. 57+ in homestead was easily attainable on single target mag sorcs. Please do not accuse me of making false statements, especially while using false statements of your own.

Literally no one cares about a static fight like Ra Kotu or Mantikora.

And I don't know what else you need to be told for you to actually start believing that stamina is viable, but whatever, you can keep on ranting for all I care.

Stamina is just fine this patch. Stamina NB (which is your main I'm pretty sure) is on the higher end of single target DPS (maybe even higher than stam DK in certain situations). What else do you need to hear?

Shadzilla · June 2017

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

I am interested in this too.
In vHoF stamina does not seem to be viable.

Have only seen 1 stam toon complete halls...

Stamina is pretty good. I know of a few Stamboys that completed the trial. Stamblade, StamDK etc.

I currently play around with Stamsorc 2H and stamDK 2H build in vHoF.

So far the highest dps i have seen came from stamina setup.

So stam dk's are taking back the crown on single target damage? Can't be over-performing mag sorcs by very much I would assume considering stamina was a good 7-10k behind mag sorc single target a week and a half ago. I wonder how the aoe/cleave damage is compared to magicka considering the lightning heavy nerf. Can you elaborate more on what numbers you guys are seeing at the top level? Regarding not just single target, but also aoe/cleave. If a stam dk is pulling a couple k more single target but is still a good 20% less aoe/cleave damage, they still seem like a bad choice for trials.

Thats a false statement. Some of the really big parses from sorcs (talking about those 70k+ VMOL first boss parses) were in the 55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that). Stamina was perfectly capable of hitting 50k+ last patch. For what its worth, my testing shows sorc single target has dropped by about 3k on a dummy self buffed. It might be less as we adapt, and as you pointed out, their cleave took a pretty noticeable hit. mNBs are beating them in single as are stam sorc, Stamplar and stam DK based on parses I am seeing. All of them are hitting low 40's outside a raid environment, which translates to about 50 inside one.

Dont get me wrong, sorc is very powerful and rather forgiving these days, but I dont believe they have the best damage any longer.

I was actually talking about the ra kotu and manti parses. Worlds #1 HRC run last patch had a couple guys breaching 60k often, one player even hit 62 on a parse. The weaker players were still over 55+, while the stronger were either near or breaching 60k often. Manti is a bit different, considering there are much more mechanics, but still had lots of players hitting 57+. I am aware stamina was able to breach 50k single target last patch, but it was not by much and quite rare. Highest stam single target I saw was around 51-52. So using basic math, adding 7 to 50+ would be 57+ like my original statement. I hate to break it to you buddy, but you target skelly parses don't mean anything. If you would like to compare numbers, go with trial boss parses not self buffed target skeletons. If you would like to post a couple stam parses from last patch that were well over 50+ that would be fantastic. Regardless I know 57-62 single target ranged mag sorc was about the norm for the worlds #1 HRC runs last patch.

55k single target range (and that's like 3 people doing that)

That is a false statement. 57+ in homestead was easily attainable on single target mag sorcs. Please do not accuse me of making false statements, especially while using false statements of your own.

Literally no one cares about a static fight like Ra Kotu or Mantikora.

And I don't know what else you need to be told for you to actually start believing that stamina is viable, but whatever, you can keep on ranting for all I care.

Stamina is just fine this patch. Stamina NB (which is your main I'm pretty sure) is on the higher end of single target DPS (maybe even higher than stam DK in certain situations). What else do you need to hear?

Regardless of how many people you think care about certain boss parses, I said that to prove a point. The dude said that my statement was false. He said that 55k single target was the absolute max dps that could be pulled, and only 3 people in the world could pull it. I proved that wrong, and you are currently pretty upset about that. My latest posts have been inquiries about how stamina dps are doing this patch. Is their single target still 7k behind mag sorcs? Is their AOE/cleave still 20-30% less than mag toons? Is the 5% buff to blade cloak helping with survivability? These are the questions I was asking other opinions on, I like to hear what is going on outside of just my group of friends/guilds. I am not saying stamina is not viable this patch, although many others are. There has not been 1 stam dps clear vet halls in NA yet, not sure how EU is doing. 600k vma scores seem impossible with stam at the moment, along with 46k+ dsa scores. Regardless of what my main is, or how much dps it is pulling, I am just looking for more information sources of how "viable" stamina is this patch. If you seem to preach on how well it is doing, would you care to link some parses showing the success stamina dps are having this patch?

Shadzilla · June 2017

FYI first stamina dps clear for vHOF NA was on Thursday.