Biro123 wrote: »

Alright, lets go through them..

"20% health and stam recov..
ONLY when slotting a daedric summoning ability. Ok so the ONLY daedric summoning ability available for stamsorc is Bound armaments - which is a toggle and so has to be double-slotted. Is it worth taking up 2 slots? I don't know about you, but I can't come up with a skill setup that fits this in without losing something important like major defile, or an execute...
Magsorc will have daedric summoning abilities slotted - but how much health and stam recov does a typical magsorc run with? This at most gives around 100 extra stam and health regen.

Nightblade gets a flat 15% to all regen all the time..

10% mag recov..
Yes this one is one of the few non-situational and useful recov passives..

Still, Nightblade gets 15%

Empowered Ward
Lol - I can't believe this was even quoted

Rebate..
Restores some mana when your pet dies... guess what? you then have to re-summon that pet - which is a channel that isn't doing anything else useful like dealing damage, defending yourself... and costs MORE than what was returned.
Basically, losing a pet costs you mag and time. This is NOT a net gain. I mean really, they could just make pet summons cost less and do away with the passive.

Ulti cost reduction..
Been plenty of other threads comparing the passive ulti recovery abilities of other classes - showing them to be very comparable. So yeah, sorc gets cheaper ultimates - but NO class-based ulti-generation as a trade-off.

5% cost reduction
5%. Its not huge, is it? I mean yes, its nice to have - but I'm sure the cost of the sorc abilities have been balanced with this in mind.

Basically, what all this boils down to that is useful is 5% cost reduction and 10% mag recov. Now do yourselves a favour and compare it to other classes passives and resource abilities and we'll see if you have a case.

During a PvP fight you constantly swap bar? I don't think so, you stay 90% of the time on one bar so the "double slot in order to obtain the buff" argument pretty much goes out of the window. You can keep it on your primary bar and 90% of the time you'll have that buff on.

The fact is not how much recovery a mag sorc have or not have, is more like "how much recovery passives do other class have?". That's the entire point of the discussion. Yes, nightblades. Great.
They've been nerfed to the ground tho. Not .2 seconds increase in resource gain. Nerf to the ground. You can't really say something like this for a sorc. Plus 15% flat on recovery on everything is pretty much the same thing as having 20% on health and Stamina and 10% on magicka. Considering that nightblades have completely lost the only useful ability they could use by casting the other pool of resources, they have 15% recovery for nothing.

Still, they got nerfed.

Empowered Ward gives you and your group 10% more recovery...on top of the passives. So a stamsorc AND a magsorc together can easily have 20% more recovery than any other class.

The pet restores you magicka. The Volatile Familiar costs 3495 magicka, with all the cost reduction you can do will cost around 3.2k. That's basically 1.5 tick of magicka recovery without Lich or Empowered Ward on. The time you cast it and it's already refunded. It's a PASSIVE way of obtaining resources back that no one has, every single other class has to actively and constantly apply skills in order to obtain magicka back. Compare this to Debilitate or Draw Essence and the difference is embarassing regarding how much effort you should put in order to obtain back a decent amount of magicka.

Regarding your Ultimate, you're right. You don't have nothing to gain Ulti. Too bad your bonus will always be active.
It's not 15% cost reduction on Ultimate while in combat. Or while activating an ability from a specific skill line. Is always on, so you're always going to benefit unlike templars or Dks that gain 1 extra ultimate every 2 seconds only if they cast a certain type of skill each and every six seconds.

I'll skip the cost reduction answer because at this point is frankly embarassing how biased you are at answering when it comes down to defending the only class you list in your signature.
I'll tell you one simple thing, in order to have ALL the benefit of Sorcs' passives, you need to combine all the classes benefits.
And of course, for the DKs those benefits have been nerfed to Obliviion.

Do us all a favor.
Once Morrowind drops, drop your sorcs for 5 minutes and try to play a class in PvP.
Try to go solo with a Magicka DK. Or with a Magblade.

Then tell us how much inefficient is a 5% cost reduction is on top of 20% magicka, stamina and health recovery on top of having the possibility of dropping a destro Ulti basically with the same frequency of a Nightblade on top of having a very cheap healing / resource restoring tool ( basically the only resources exchanging tool still effective and still in place which is already overperforming NOW ).

Biro123 wrote: »

I stopped there.. 90% one one bar? lol. I'm barely one one bar for more than 3 seconds. Keep it on primary bar? You have no idea how toggles work, do you?

And I can't believe you brought up Empowered ward again.. That skill is worthless in PVP. You don't see any salt about shields mentioning Empowered ward, do you?

I'm still asking - do me a comparison of a sustained PVP combat with sorc and the other classes to show me how their class sustain skills stack up. Because really - you don't know its broken till you do that. You're the one saying its broken, you gotta prove it.

Then what's the point of talking to you or answering you if we have to go through your selective deafness and cherrypicking way of considering something worth of your attention?

You don't need to activate the toggle to get the 20% recovery, you just need to slot it.

You barely stay on one bar for more than three seconds? So you split your offensive skills in two bars?
You split your shields? You split your buffs? How does it work your build, let me understand.
And do you think a Stamsorc ( which is the one who needs the 20% stam recovery the most ), how many times do you think it will switch bars during a fight? Every 3 seconds? I think so, it's the time a stamsorc will need to burst a player down next patch.

That skill is useless in PvP NOW, goddammit, NOW. In all your posts you still comparing the situation of all the classes pre Morrowind to what the sorc will face in the next patch. It's not the same, every one took a huge hit on top of every nerf while Sorcs a .2 seconds that you had the guts to say it's a 20% nerf! You're kidding me? That skill is "useless" now, tomorrow will not be since the sorcs will simply activate it and gain 10% more magicka recovery on top of a big ass shield.
Again, it's not only what they do have or what they do use or what's best in slot now that is a "infinite sustain" meta.
It's what they can obtain on top of everything that other classes simply don't have.
Again, drop your sorcs after Morrowind and we can talk again.

As for your request, I haven't read it the first time but now I can only say is laughable at least.
I won't waste a single second of my time writing a screenplay of a skirmish between a redguard stamsorc and a redguard whatever or between a breton/high elf magsorc vs a breton/high elf whatever considering you'll apply your selective deafness and blindness to what I describe. This is supposed to be a forum of full grown individual able to formulate thoughts without the need of examples like "if you and your friend start the month with the same amount of money but you have a 5% discount on everything you buy and you earn 20% more than he does, who's going to have more money at the end of the month?".
Do I really have to do a comic strip of how a duel like that will go down once Morrowind drops?

I state this again in case this time your high horse didn't stop you from reading the rest of this post:
if you combine ALL the recovery and cost reduction benefits the other classes gain from their passives into a new class, this class will have weaker passives than a sorc.

"But but but Nightblades have 15% flat recovery".
Nightblades are extinct from PvE and relegated to ganking and bombing in PvE. Still, they got nuked.

"But but but Templars have a 4% cost reduction on everything".
Still not at the same level of a 15% cost decrease on Ultis and a 5% cost decrease on magicka and stamina abilities.
Both declinations of the class have horrible and draining sustain and they've been nuked to the point the entire class will be the surrogate of what it is at the moment.

"But but but DKs have...."
Battle Roar? Helping hands? Guess what? They've been completely nuked down.
Well of course when a Dk cast an Ulti it gains a little amount of resources back ( which is less than what a tripot gives you ) but it's not for free, you know. You have to spend resources in order to accumulate Ulti. The average cost per ability of the Earthen Earth skill tree is 4k and a good PvP DK has around 37-38k max pool. Helping hands is a joke now. 990 stamina ( and only stamina ) back for every 4k skill you cast. This is just embarassing.